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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Wow, I'm so confused right now. What a complicated episode. I can understand why the BSS TLer is reluctant to translate it. Interesting collage-like style though. |
| holy shit my head hurts. that was freaking intense. no idea what was going on but the artwork was just so unique. |
p r o f i l e 👀 |
| Good job directing this episode. Subbing this was definitely not an easy task. |
 staff.applications ▼ guidelines.faq ▼ report.abuse ▼ thx.skittles ▼ thx.kina ▼ [H+] ³ ▼ |
| WOW.... probably gonna watch this few more times... Really complicated episode, like you need a manual to go with it Anyway, thnx to BSS for translating it... better late that never BTW, is it just my imagination or does anyone else thinks that the lead character looks a bit like James Dean? |
| Lost my religion |
| I think after watching this we now all have Complete World Knowledge. |
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| Gave me a headache, definitely a trip! |
| ok.... as said before - that was intense. not sure I quite grasp it all, but I can relate to some of the things spoken of in this story. The animation looked nice. Although sometimes I had the feeling I was watching some sort of hypnotizing, indoctrination film with all the different images flashing by... |
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| wow trippy... i must say that at end of this short i could say only one word, fuck (in a good sense )..... animation is unbelivable, one of the best animation i saw'd and about the monologue very very intense and interesting but to damn fast. If I wanted to appreciate the art i couldnt follow the monologue, so this means i'll have to rewatch it ( and i guess quite a few times....) |
| Sure was pretentious. |
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| I interpreted it as an analysis of individual thought; with god representing personal ideology et al. Of course, that neither means that I understand everything, nor that my interpretation is correct; will have to watch this again sometime. |
| blah blah blah yak yak yak |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| So does no one here know what a Lorenz Attractor is or the butterfly effect or at least the concept of 'god'? ...well by the end of the episode did it make you feel like a genius at least? This is "genius party" after all ^_^ well if it was too much either pay attention to the text or pay attention to the images. Pretentious my ass. If it was pretentious then you perceive yourself as pretentious. It just states the obvious flaws in the world. If you can follow it or not is all up to you. And actually sort of makes you think about the ultimate question. "Why are you here?" Not by some shitty shounen or plot progressing character. Its basically a monologue of knowledge. What do you know what do you not now. What is fact what is fiction. Do we follow some pattern or make our own path. If you think its all about "god" replace the word and it might make more sense. God is no different than having the 'will' or 'resolve' EDIT: not that im saying i understood all of it but i felt like i understood some of it. This makes a lot of references to psychology and theoretical sciences. Like Oscar Wildes ("The Decay of Lying", Life imitating art, etc) Edward Lorenz (chaos theory, butterfly effect, and Lorenz attractors), Conway's Game of life, Pascal - Aleae geometria Carl Jung NDC codes are abundant throughout the video. Alot of these numbers refer to Reclaiming the Self: The Pascal-Rousseau Connection. Which is an essay piece by Harvey Mitchell. But most of the other codes don't come up or im just looking wrong. Well maybe changing a few words around or punctuations might make it more understandable. It did for me. I have the whole monologue typed up in this forum with some minor touch ups in punctuations. Feel free to read it and see if it makes more sense reading it in a different way. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=168883 |
RanivusMar 20, 2010 6:55 AM
  "What happens when we die?" I know that the ones who love us will miss us. |
Ranivus said: snip Some might understand what I mean by this, and many most certainly will not: From my point of view, these types of philosophical questions are something that perhaps a high schooler/secondary schooler would find intriguing. However, as many of us grow older, we quickly grow out of this silly thought-process. |
DunkyMar 20, 2010 11:06 AM
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| most of philosophy is pretentious. It presumes too much; too many assumptions. Assumptions lead to loopholes. And most 'truths' are subjective views assumed to be universal facts. And when these subjective views are advocated as facts then there is a good reason to call these views 'pretentious'. BUT, the biggest loophole is too much confidence in human intellect and reasoning. Logic, rationalizations and perceptions have huge limitations. But then that's just my opinion. I like philosophy when its not too enforcing or presumptuous. However, my biggest problem with this segment was the way the ideas were communicated. First off its a translation, there's got to be some problems. But I think there might have been a better way to express it rather then engaging in a long dry rhetoric. Angel's egg, cat soup, kino's journey or even EVA are good examples of how socio-philosophical or psychological idea's should be communicated in animation. Perhaps that wouldn't have been possible with this segment. I don't know, I'm not a script writer or director. But I really found this to be too dull. PS: Yes yes, I know I'm pretentious and shallow :S cant help it... |
eyerokMar 20, 2010 11:10 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
Deadpool135 said: Ranivus said: snip Some might understand what I mean by this, and many most certainly will not: From my point of view, these types of philosophical questions are something that perhaps a high schooler would find intriguing. However, as many of us grow older, we quickly grow out of this silly thought-process. And this too I'd agree with. QFT bro...QFT |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
koreye said: BUT, the biggest loophole is too much confidence in human intellect and reasoning. Logic, rationalizations and perceptions have huge limitations. But then that's just my opinion. You speak the truth, and also my mind. |
|
| Well the whole thing can be taken completely different for all different people. Just because its truth for one ofc doesn't mean its truth for others. For me, i can sort of relate to the things they're talking about since i had a roommate for 8 months talking in my ear about how god is fake and atheists know how the world is. Dunno why atheists like to bash religion so hard. Like if they are so high and mighty, why haven't they contributed to the world more? You don't normally see an atheist at a soup kitchen or donating clothes to goodwill. Or have non-profits. Long story short, lame back and forth conversations about the same pros and cons, advantages and disadvantages, etc. I'm no bible-thumper but who are other people to say that millions of other people are wrong. If its their form of truth isn't it their prerogative to follow it. Sure logic, rationalizations and perceptions have huge limitations but its limited to the human comprehending the logic and rationalization. I didn't see how it was all about confidence in human reasoning. I was seeing it as to why some people would devote their lives to God and vice versa, among many other some other things that i didn't follow as much. ...found it kind of rude calling me a high schooler (i'm assuming since you quoted me and referred to me as such). Whats wrong with some form of conversation? Is this not a forum? What is wrong about thinking about philosophy and religion? I just find it weird to bash something remotely interesting because of its perception of being pretentious. |
| "What happens when we die?" I know that the ones who love us will miss us. |
| I'm not saying that something like that cant 'touch' anyone. I merely pointed out what I thought to be the flaws in the episode. What you say about something meaning different things to different people is true and only a fool would deny it. But the way I see it, the segment itself seemed to pretend otherwise, as if the words said were the ultimate revelation or something. I just said my mind and how I felt about the segment and your post above. I can see why it sounded like a bashing although I never intended it to be so. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| If weren't for this episode, I would give it a 10/10, awesome anthology. |
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DrIdiot said: The fact that you're questioning notions like truth is philosophical, sort of by definition.. so clearly you aren't opposed to philosophy. I'm not really sure what you're opposed to, other than this episode (which, admittedly, was sort of garbage). I mean, it's stupid when people read Socrates ("guys, there's got to be an afterlife because of this [flawed] argument by Socrates!") and take it really fucking seriously, but saying philosophy is garbage because of that is like saying all literature is stupid because I didn't like Moby Dick. . I never said philosophy is garbage. I just said that most of it is pretentious; and while this statement could be contested as being an exaggerated generalization (even assuming that the word 'pretentious' means the same thing for every individual), it by no means should be taken as saying that philosophy in general is garbage. I already said that I appreciate philosophy when its a little more humble and not too self-enforcing; Which is, in my eyes, the exact opposite of this particular episode (you might agree or disagree about that). Oh and I love moby dick; although I've never had the guts to go past the 20th chapter because I find my limited vocabulary to be quite frustrating. I've tried to read it thrice but always I put it back in my shelf, promising that I would make another attempt when I feel good enough to read it without looking up for the words :P DrIdiot said: My main issue with the episode is it tries to be as incomprehensible as possible. It makes a cryptic statement, and then another that's completely unrelated. The ideas it's trying to convey (I say this with reservation, because you could also argue that it's not /trying/ to convey jack shit) are really not that deep. Basically, it's spewing bullshit ("numbers duplicate space" -- what the fuck does that mean?) and trying to impress you. I don't like using the word pretentious, but this is textbook pretentious right here. The way to do philosophy is not to give a bunch of snappy one-liners, but careful consideration and thought. I agree 100% that's what I meant when I said there could have been other ways to do the episode instead of engaging in a long dry rhetoric. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| alright, that makes a lot of sense, and I think I wouldn't really disagree with it. But I think its also the kind of philosophy you're talking about and the philosopher behind it as well as how he propagates his 'work'. And I'd also reemphasize my personal view that reasoning and logic and 'knowledge' gained from them are overrated, although not at all useless (and even 'bad' philosophy can potentially serve as a means of good mental exercise). But I don't want to go further than that for the sake of avoiding any unnecessary argument, because this is entirely a subjective point of view. Herman Melville was obsessed with details I guess :P I really really love his style though |
eyerokMar 27, 2010 5:13 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Felt like a journey through the mind of a schizophreniac. Dissociated, blunted emotions, dellusions, pseudo-philosopic disorganized thought processes. Just my interpretation, though. Hard to watch for obvious reasons, but intriguing. |
 Beware! For I wield the chair leg of truth! |
DrIdiot said: I think I know what you mean, and I'm not disagreeing, but I just want to make a personal point of clarification. I don't think philosophy is pretentious by nature. I do feel, however, that a lot of people quote philosophers to sound smart ("Cogito ergo sum... HURRR"), and they end up coming off as ("pretentious") douchebags, but I think anyone with an open mind (i.e. who doesn't think it's pointless by default) can sit down and talk about philosophical topics without the douchebaggery. A lot of it is just asking questions. Yeah, so I think anime probably isn't the best vehicle for philosophy since a lot of philosophy actually is just a lot of rhetoric, discussion, arguments, examples, etc. I think anime can incorporate philosophical ideas successfully, but if someone wants to do a legitimate treatise on philosophy they might as well write a fucking treatise. Limit Cycle, though, has bigger issues. It's not that it's dry, it's that it makes no attempt to make any god damn sense, which means underneath the bullshit it has nothing meaningful to say. I mean, if it was just dry rhetoric that at least made sense, it might be sort of boring, but Limit Cycle is more than boring. It's excruciating. So, I'd say the best way to do this episode would have been to just... not do it. This. |
| This felt like a philosophy 101 class. Which isn't bad, but it's nothing new either. Most thoughts and theories I've already thought/heard of myself. Art wasn't my cup of tea, too exhasuting to watch for almost 20 minutes. While this may be interesting for people who don't study philosophy by themselves and/or at the university, for me it wasn't a too intense experience. In Fact I fell asleep for a short time. About the general debate about philosophy: I personally think it's very important and everybody does it somehow and form his own philosophy, the only difference is that many people don't actively form it by thinking, but let it passively be formed by society, media, family etc. Also in my opinion a good philosopher/philosophy is not about the answers he/it gives, but about the questions asked. As Eyerok said, answers in philosophy are not absolute and are therefore in most cases only worth something for the person who came up with them, but questions are absolute and should be the true goal of a philosopher. And it generally depends on the person watching and not on the series/movie(anime/book etc.. if something is philosophical. The Reader is the mirror of the book and vice versa. I hope I didn't sound too "pretentious" :P. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| lol...no, you didnt :P what you said makes a lot of sense |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Glad to hear ^^. I'm constantly fighting against philosophers/philosophies that are deliberately complicated or pretentious, because I think Philosophy itself has much to offer, especially nowadays, but is its own biggest enemy by not even trying to appeal to non-professional philosophers and make them understand what it has to say. It seems to be satisfied with its role as a "science for freaks who have nothing to do with reality" and I don't like it :P But besides that I'll have to disagree with whoever said this short didn't make any sense at all. It did, but it didn't try to be understood. There are a lot of easily recognizable philosophical motives, theories, questions in there, but you'll mostly only get them if you "professionally" study it and that's what I hate about it. Professional philosophy, philosophy at the university almost makes me dislike philosophy as a whole sometimes... |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Definitely the weakest one of the bunch, not saying there was nothing interesting to grasp on, it just didn't deliver it well enough to make comprehending anything any easier. The topic could've been math and it wouldn't have made very much difference. It was almost like listening some political podcast while watching windows media player visualizations. Also, philosophy isn't just something you stop doing from lack of interest and it sure isn't some kind of high schooler phase everyone just grows out of. What might come out to some of you as "pretentious" is most likely public discussion about it, which in no way is the point of philosophy at all. Also, "pretentious" is yet again another buzzword of the year that should be shot to the moon. |
| What the hell have I just watched. What an agonizing and torturous short. It was trying to sound and make a deep, philosophic monologue. … But it tried too hard and barely managed to get to the “meaningless, pretentious, pseudo-intelligent lecture” category. It failed terribly; I couldn’t maintain my eyes on the screen. I appreciate a good lesson about moral and philosophical issues, not this… thing. It was merely, in a single expression, word vomit. No sense, no meaning. |
I think, then procrastinate. Therefore, I am. |
| This is without a doubt one of the worst things I have ever sat through. It redefines the word pretentious. It was 19 minutes of talking and absolutely nothing of value was said. If I was rating this individually It would be the first 1/10 on my list and I'd still begrudge the fact that I couldn't score it lower. |
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| Mediums of animation. It is a large so it can't be a medium. Two extremes. Good or terrible. Visual Storytelling. If it can be heard is it really visual? Pain. Agony. Helplessness. Lack of understanding. Suffering. The feelings. Humans cannot control them. But they are controlled by them. Can the worst thing actually mean the best thing? Time. 19 minutes. It can feel like an eternity. |
PfhorSep 12, 2011 11:42 AM
| My least favorite out of the seven. I liked it visually but that guy's monologue just made this episode seem a lot longer that it actually was, just a bunch of random ramblings thrown together, nothing intelligent about this. |
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Pfhor said: LOL bravo.Mediums of animation. It is a large so it can't be a medium. Two extremes. Good or terrible. Visual Storytelling. If it can be heard is it really visual? Pain. Agony. Helplessness. Lack of understanding. Suffering. The feelings. Humans cannot control them. But they are controlled by them. Can the worst thing actually mean the best thing? Time. 19 minutes. It can feel like an eternity. But yeah ultimately pointless and directionless, I think. Some great, interesting phrases but it was all so disconnected and convoluted that as a whole it was a bunch of nonsense - my interpretation |
| okay... I can definitely see why you liked this episode. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| I found it interesting. Fun fact: you copy-paste all the comment here in the discussion about any NGE episode. |
on 
| Just no... |
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taterhead said: My thoughts exactlyIf weren't for this episode, I would give it a 10/10, awesome anthology. |
| I didn't really enjoy this monologue, it was intriguing though. Also the fact that anyone can interpret this in their own way, which is good and bad. Certainly my least favourite out of the 7 |
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| Ugh, wow. That was difficult to sit through. I think this might just be the most pretentious thing I've ever watched. Even the art, despite consisting of a lot of talent, was difficult to look at. It just looked like a mess through the whole thing. This honestly looks like something you'd play on loop to somebody if you wanted them to go crazy. Really REALLY not a fan of this one. |
::End of Transmission:: What have I been watching? Click here and find out on my viewing blog, "Vigorous Viewing" |
| wow that episdoe was strange to say the least |
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| Didn't enjoy that at all...felt like my brain was about to go into meltdown. |
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| That was one of the most pretentious things I've seen in a while. 2DEEP4ME |
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| That was one the worst things I've ever seen. A bunch of pretentious psychobabble philosiphyzing disguising itself as proven truth. Not even any way to make it seem like an opinion -- it's as if the writer/narrator for this is whispering loudly in your ear and you can't escape. The only good thing was the animation style. That's it. |
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| Wow, just wow. This is probably the worst animation I've ever watched. To everyone with a sane mind; I recommend that you skip this #!($%?§. Di-Dorval said: Dropped this one 4minutes in.. Funnily I stopped watching it after 4 min as well. (It felt like 15 min though) Really. This thing is a monstrosity. |
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