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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- I think there is a mistake with the series chapter count and it should be 38, but will post it here. Waited a long time for the 7th episode translation so finally finished the series. What can i say, that was a great journey!!! Really love the ending, how the last game happened and all their feelings helped Ange! Was quite sad when Beatrice jumped from the boat at the end :( And for all the last chapters Lambda helped them so much and i really love it =/ I think sadly it wouldn't be animated and i think the adaptation was quite good, so maybe one day ... |
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| Of course . An excellent ending for an excellent series . It's quite bittersweet tbh . I don't like how "Battler" was alive at the end too . I opt for the magic ending . |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| @allenjke It's 42, because those include the 4 chapters of "confession of the golden witch" which are shown as 24.1-24.4 on mangafox (dunno where you read it though) As for the thread, yeah it's an amazing end to an amazing show, I loved it more than the VN ending (because screw trick end, magic end is best end!) |
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Snappynator said: @allenjke It's 42, because those include the 4 chapters of "confession of the golden witch" which are shown as 24.1-24.4 on mangafox (dunno where you read it though) Oh ok, i did read those chapters, i think they also numbered as 24. chapters on other sources. Remembered that the first half of the 8th episode had the art changed probably to show the kind and fluffy atmosphere of the game between Battler and Ange. And it changed back to original art, even the series was drawn by different artists i think the artstyle is pretty similar and very good. It was very eye-catching so just wanted to point it out. |
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| Since this topic is meant to be as a last chapter's discussion, I'll post here including the previous chapter. What a great ride... If only Beatrice(Shannon) and Battler escaped without any issues, though that means there won't be Umineko series in the first place lol. It almost made me get teary eye until the very end. Also, I didn't "kinda" expect that Battler survived. Such protagonist's powers for you. Great series! I guess to watch the Umineko again. True that it may be shit for most Umineko fans but then again, it's true that I'm still fine with the anime adaptation regardless of seeing the source material or not. |
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| I wouldn't say Battler 'survived'. In the last scene it shows that Tohya has been released from the burden of being Battler and can now live his own life because of it. Battler died and the last scene was him in heaven with everyone else. Real talk though, this is like one of the best pieces of fiction I've ever read in my life. The depth of the mystery and the character Beatrice was amazing. One question if someone could answer, most of the 'witches' were actually something in reality. Bern was a cat, Aurora was the author. But what about Lambdadelta, I thought she represented the Halloween party at the end or maybe the candy piece that was used in the trick by Beatrice. |
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Major123 said: I wouldn't say Battler 'survived'. In the last scene it shows that Tohya has been released from the burden of being Battler and can now live his own life because of it. Battler died and the last scene was him in heaven with everyone else. I guess I can see where you are getting that. Though I've wondering, about chapter 41, I don't quite see that it exists in the game. I'm referring to the at the very start, in which Beatrice thought she was killed. |
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Tennouji said: What do you mean by not existing? Like that whole scenario after Beatrice realized she didn't die?Major123 said: I wouldn't say Battler 'survived'. In the last scene it shows that Tohya has been released from the burden of being Battler and can now live his own life because of it. Battler died and the last scene was him in heaven with everyone else. I guess I can see where you are getting that. Though I've wondering, about chapter 41, I don't quite see that it exists in the game. I'm referring to the at the very start, in which Beatrice thought she was killed. |
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Major123 said: Tennouji said: What do you mean by not existing? Like that whole scenario after Beatrice realized she didn't die?I guess I can see where you are getting that. Though I've wondering, about chapter 41, I don't quite see that it exists in the game. I'm referring to the at the very start, in which Beatrice thought she was killed. I'm referring if the whole scene of chapter 41 was also on the game or not. What I only saw on the game is only when Battler and Beatrice(Shannon) are about to leave the island. |
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Tennouji said: Oh I'm not sure about that, I believe the final epilogue scene is only in the manga though. That and their was more backstory about Beatrice's past as well.Major123 said: What do you mean by not existing? Like that whole scenario after Beatrice realized she didn't die? I'm referring if the whole scene of chapter 41 was also on the game or not. What I only saw on the game is only when Battler and Beatrice(Shannon) are about to leave the island. |
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| i only have one question, which seems to have been answered but not really: why was battler returning to rokkenjima *specifically on 1986* the reason for the rokkenjima massacre? considering how beato said if battler came in a year before or after the tragedy wouldn't occur. we've all seen the amount of work that beato/yasuda sayo create multiple mystery-fantasy-murder scenarios, crimes, that never came to fruition and how they were all made in retaliation to the news that battler was returning in 1986 after his long absence since 1980. but the reason we're given that all these crimes were thought up was that the news of battler coming broke yasuda sayo's heart and mind. but if that's the reason, then news of battler coming back could've also happened in 1985 or 1987 and in either way yasuda sayo's heart and mind would've broke. what i'm saying is that battler returning would've definitely caused problems, but did it matter on the exact year? was there anything else that happened in 1986 that was more motivating than a year prior or afterward? well, there was the revealing that yasuda sayo was an ushiromiya in 1986 so any year before 1986, like 1985, would've had yasuda sayo in the mindset that he could potentiall be loved as an actual person and not less than a person (the bombshell of unable to produce offspring not known until ushiromiya unveiling). but what of post 1986? sure, in 1986 yasuda sayo, in shannon form, could've been expecting an engagement with george and battler not being there would've been great, but there would still be a problem with yasuda sayo, in kanon form, wanting to keep a relationship with jessica - so the materials for her breaking would've still existed regardless of the year. even if battler didn't return in 1986, yasuda sayo would've gotten the news that he was the uncle and sibling of those he loved (jessica and george) in 1986. if george wanted to engage with shannon then yasuda sayo would've broken again since a) he's their relative b) no reproductive capabilities regardless of partner c) kanon form is still in love with jessica my deductions: though i felt that the series was wrapped up quite nicely, there's one thing that wasn't really settled: loved this series so much for its arcs of "who dunnit, how dunnit, and the final arc of why dunnit" it was very meta though since it was moreso "what dunnit (human or witch), how dunnit, and the final arc of who and why dunnit" as well as a questioning of whether it was worth it to know who and how as long as you knew the why - the intentions more important than the actions |
OniikamiNov 11, 2016 10:14 AM
Frostbytes said: I thought that the presence of a dual ending for the readers to assume it themselves/open for interpretations was a clever trick of what would you actually like to believe in(kinda like annarasumanara), however going by the themes of the series I think I will choose the magic end. Otherwise it kinda defeats the purpose of battler last game and also makes sense from Ange's viewpoint after the game. That's exactly it. In the end, the answer is left to the viewers of the story. I absolutely love this story. Mysteries, tragedies, romance and thematic messages blended into an unforgettable experience. It was ridiculously over-the-top a times too(and I like that). |
OduduwaDec 16, 2016 12:51 PM
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Oniikami said: i only have one question, which seems to have been answered but not really: why was battler returning to rokkenjima *specifically on 1986* the reason for the rokkenjima massacre Well, this one was one of the easiest tbh, it was just more open sided.. First of all it's not 'returning is REASON for massacre', it's actually 'returning worsened the situation', that's almost exact quote of what was told in manga. As for the reason why it worsened - you pretty much answered it yourself with the whole mixed love thing. The thing you most likely missed was the fact that incident would happened either way, since it was planned so, and Battlers return only changed the severity. As for my thoughts on the episode, well.. that episode was really the most enjoyable of all I think, at least it was satisfying enough and did not let you feel like reading all 8 chapters was a mistake. It had some minor issues with how predictable the whole ending was since almost the beginning of volume. Compared to all other mysteries it felt underwhelming... For example I only started to come to theory of the Kannon/Shannon/Beatrice identity by chapter 7, while now that I think about it - that could be VERY easily deducted back when the game of 3 love pairs and only 1 pair can have love game happened. I was disappointed about quite a lot of plot holes remaining in episode 7 and did not think that so many of them would be patched up in episode 8 so greatly, so I must surely clap to that. To be honest the trick ending where Ange deducts the whole thing about her being the target on Rokkenjima was my dream ending pretty much, too bad it was discarded for a cheesy ending instead, that's one of my few regrets, but I guess even more people would cry about ending being bad without some cheese in it. It didn't suit the atmosphere of the manga at all, but still out of respect how author managed to fool me so many times with something that should have been so obvious I must show my respect and give it a 10/10, it's a great mystery manga inspired heavily by real world classics. |
DigitalExile said: It isn't a "real" ending, its an option to tshe reader what you believe, that's precisely the reason you get two ending in the VN and in the manga too. If you believe Ange learnt what he gained in ep 8 and has more respect for his family with a wider outlook, you go for magic end, if Ange still remains the same one not believing in anyone, you get the trick ending. It's upto the reader's interpretations which goes well for a fantasy/mystery manga like this. ~~ Problem is, the trick one has nothing in it to be called an actual ending, unless you leave it VERY open sided. It leaves too many things unanswered to be satisfying enough, unlike the cheesy ending which gets explained good enough to leave only some minor questions behind. Well, it could be called a 'what if' type of ending indeed, those usually go without much explanations, but are usually designed as 'non canon' endings and more of a way to satisfy a part of audience. In my opinion the manga itself is a 'journey' you see, not a game you play, so it shouldn't have different endings, but that may just be my way of nitpicking, eh. |
| It's really too bad that they didn't show Shannon alive in the end too. If Battler survived that means there's also a chance for Shannon to have survived as well. It wasn't confirmed that she survived, but it wasn't confirmed that she died either. So my interpretation of the ending is that it created another cat box, since we hadn't any confirmation of it we can draw our own conclusion about it and decide for ourselves whether we want to believe that she survived in the end or not. And I really want to believe that she's Ikuko. She died as Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice and started to live as Ikuko. If this is the case it would make a lot of sense in many ways, from what I remember, and now I really want to believe in it because I want to believe that Shannon had a happy ending. Major123 said: One question if someone could answer, most of the 'witches' were actually something in reality. Bern was a cat, Aurora was the author. But what about Lambdadelta, I thought she represented the Halloween party at the end or maybe the candy piece that was used in the trick by Beatrice. I'm would say she's the paper, as she kept repeating during her fight with Bernkastel. She's probably the representation of the paper that a writer writes on. Oniikami said: but was yasuda sayo himself accepted? yasuda sayo broke because he thought his relationships were incestual and that they would not borne fruit - he has no reproductive organs, and that aspect of "not able to produce offspring" is pretty devastating as was seen with natsuhi's relationship with krauss and kinzo even in his last moments as beatrice before commiting suicide, he kissed battler goodbye while keeping secret his body. Hey... Yasuda Sayo is not a "he". Yasuda Sayo is a girl. She became unable to bear children due to the accident, but she was still a girl. There's no way she would still be expecting to have menstruation and to have children(before she got the confirmation that she wouldn't be able to do it) if she didn't have a vagina. The accident caused a problem inside her body, not outside. She wasn't a person without education and she certainly would be able to recognize if she was a boy during her whole childhood. She was a normal girl until her puberty when she realized that her breasts weren't growing and that she wasn't having menstruation like the other girls. But back then she was still hoping that she would be able to have children because she knew that she had the sexual organ of a woman. |
ColtBuntlineMay 7, 2017 1:17 AM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
Frostbytes said: KRKodama said: It's really too bad that they didn't show Shannon alive in the end too. If Battler survived that means there's also a chance for Shannon to have survived as well. It wasn't confirmed that she survived, but it wasn't confirmed that she died either. So my interpretation of the ending is that it created another cat box, since we hadn't any confirmation of it we can draw our own conclusion about it and decide for ourselves whether we want to believe that she survived in the end or not. And I really want to believe that she's Ikuko. She died as Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice and started to live as Ikuko. If this is the case it would make a lot of sense in many ways, from what I remember, and now I really want to believe in it because I want to believe that Shannon had a happy ending. I'm would say she's the paper, as she kept repeating during her fight with Bernkastel. She's probably the representation of the paper that a writer writes on. Hey... Yasuda Sayo is not a "he". Yasuda Sayo is a girl. She became unable to bear children due to the accident, but she was still a girl. There's no way she would still be expecting to have menstruation and to have children(before she got the confirmation that she wouldn't be able to do it) if she didn't have a vagina. The accident caused a problem inside her body, not outside. She wasn't a person without education and she certainly would be able to recognize if she was a boy during her whole childhood. She was a normal girl until her puberty when she realized that her breasts weren't growing and that she wasn't having menstruation like the other girls. But back then she was still hoping that she would be able to have children because she knew that she had the sexual organ of a woman. Well there are many debates about this but I think it's well explained here http://ramblingsofthegoldenwitch.tumblr.com/post/150913948722/why-everyone-believes-sayo-to-be-male-she-can-be Sayo’s main problem is that her body doesn’t match up to the image in her head she has about herself (after all, she was raised as a girl when she was biologically male and only found out about it very late in her life, hence the confusion). To me, the best hint regarding Sayo’s and Lion’s gender is that Lion is what Sayo could have become if Beatrice never existed in the first place. Beatrice was created as Sayo’s ideal woman image (merging with young Battler’s ideal), since she perceived herself as unfitting as a woman in her current state. A world where Beatrice doesn’t need to exist is a world where Sayo (actually, Lion) has accepted his male body and doesn’t need to project himself in a woman’s image. I don't think that Sayo is necessarily a boy. I thought more about it since I wrote that message and now I think his/her gender is supposed to be ambiguous. Lion's gender is hard to be identified even though he/she didn't suffer any accident. So he can be a feminine boy, or a masculine girl(a tomboy), as explained by Will in the seventh chapter. The site you linked uses the argument that Lion uses male clothes and therefore it's a male, but it wouldn't be the first time in a manga that a female character used male clothes, especially since she's supposed to be a tomboy if she is, in fact, a female. The other argument it uses is that Lion is a male because he is much taller than Beatrice, who, as you said, was created as Sayo’s ideal woman image. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he/she is a boy. It could be that she's just a girl without the best characteristics of a girl, making her a tomboy. Supposing that he/she is a girl then it would be a girl with flat chest and taller than normal, which is not so uncommon to happen with girls in real life. So Beatrice would be the ideal image of a woman for her, since she is smaller and has big boobies. And I think Lion is not really so tall, actually. It's hard to know exactly what the manga artist was thinking when he was drawing those pages, but Lion is much smaller hat Will, for example. So, basically, I think his/her gender is supposed to be ambiguous and that it could be any of the two. If the author wanted to make clear which gender he/she has, he would have clarified it directly. |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
KRKodama said: Frostbytes said: Well there are many debates about this but I think it's well explained here http://ramblingsofthegoldenwitch.tumblr.com/post/150913948722/why-everyone-believes-sayo-to-be-male-she-can-be Sayo’s main problem is that her body doesn’t match up to the image in her head she has about herself (after all, she was raised as a girl when she was biologically male and only found out about it very late in her life, hence the confusion). To me, the best hint regarding Sayo’s and Lion’s gender is that Lion is what Sayo could have become if Beatrice never existed in the first place. Beatrice was created as Sayo’s ideal woman image (merging with young Battler’s ideal), since she perceived herself as unfitting as a woman in her current state. A world where Beatrice doesn’t need to exist is a world where Sayo (actually, Lion) has accepted his male body and doesn’t need to project himself in a woman’s image. I don't think that Sayo is necessarily a boy. I thought more about it since I wrote that message and now I think his/her gender is supposed to be ambiguous. Lion's gender is hard to be identified even though he/she didn't suffer any accident. So he can be a feminine boy, or a masculine girl(a tomboy), as explained by Will in the seventh chapter. The site you linked uses the argument that Lion uses male clothes and therefore it's a male, but it wouldn't be the first time in a manga that a female character used male clothes, especially since she's supposed to be a tomboy if she is, in fact, a female. The other argument it uses is that Lion is a male because he is much taller than Beatrice, who, as you said, was created as Sayo’s ideal woman image. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he/she is a boy. It could be that she's just a girl without the best characteristics of a girl, making her a tomboy. Supposing that he/she is a girl then it would be a girl with flat chest and taller than normal, which is not so uncommon to happen with girls in real life. So Beatrice would be the ideal image of a woman for her, since she is smaller and has big boobies. And I think Lion is not really so tall, actually. It's hard to know exactly what the manga artist was thinking when he was drawing those pages, but Lion is much smaller hat Will, for example. So, basically, I think his/her gender is supposed to be ambiguous and that it could be any of the two. If the author wanted to make clear which gender he/she has, he would have clarified it directly. Well I felt that Natsuhi's phone call and that little tweet about Lion were the most interesting points actually, and Ryukishi is a trollmaster so I won't be surprised about him trying to make the gender ambiguous(I mean even the VN fans were raging for some unanswered questions after playing it which were eventually answered(some of them) in manga. |
| Wow, what an amazing conclusion those last couple of chapters were brilliant. |
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Frostbytes said: KRKodama said: I don't think that Sayo is necessarily a boy. I thought more about it since I wrote that message and now I think his/her gender is supposed to be ambiguous. Lion's gender is hard to be identified even though he/she didn't suffer any accident. So he can be a feminine boy, or a masculine girl(a tomboy), as explained by Will in the seventh chapter. The site you linked uses the argument that Lion uses male clothes and therefore it's a male, but it wouldn't be the first time in a manga that a female character used male clothes, especially since she's supposed to be a tomboy if she is, in fact, a female. The other argument it uses is that Lion is a male because he is much taller than Beatrice, who, as you said, was created as Sayo’s ideal woman image. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he/she is a boy. It could be that she's just a girl without the best characteristics of a girl, making her a tomboy. Supposing that he/she is a girl then it would be a girl with flat chest and taller than normal, which is not so uncommon to happen with girls in real life. So Beatrice would be the ideal image of a woman for her, since she is smaller and has big boobies. And I think Lion is not really so tall, actually. It's hard to know exactly what the manga artist was thinking when he was drawing those pages, but Lion is much smaller hat Will, for example. So, basically, I think his/her gender is supposed to be ambiguous and that it could be any of the two. If the author wanted to make clear which gender he/she has, he would have clarified it directly. Well I felt that Natsuhi's phone call and that little tweet about Lion were the most interesting points actually, and Ryukishi is a trollmaster so I won't be surprised about him trying to make the gender ambiguous(I mean even the VN fans were raging for some unanswered questions after playing it which were eventually answered(some of them) in manga. It's an old discussion (Well not that old, the manga finished this year), but I was casually browsing the forum so I figured I'd chip in. Did people skip the manga special "Our Confession" (That exists to clear stuff)? Because the conclusions are quite obvious: Yasu's body was damage by the fall, essentially turning Yasu genderless and with a body literally unable to have sex. Shannon vs Kanon is at heart a gender struggle (Hence Zepar and Furfur, two demons of different sexes) and the way Beatrice treats Kanon and Shannon is quite telling. Kanon is a knight "which blade can't even be used to trim roses": (It's a fantasy scene, but extrapolating the fantasy scenes is the key to understanding Yasu's furniture complex) while with Shannon she's much harsher, she calls her "disgusting" and "George will not want you once you take off those clothes". Note that both Shannon and Kanon are described as viable possibilities for her. She also ultimately chose death because she was too afraid of people finding the truth about her body (Even thought R07 confirmed both George and Battler would have accepted her). Add to this of course the fact that R07 said "Lion enjoys cooking even though it's usually for girls" and Beatrice chose to introduce herself as "the man from 19 years ago" to the only person who knew her briefly as a baby but doesn't know her current self. |
Jin_uzukiDec 31, 2017 9:49 PM
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Jin_uzuki said: Frostbytes said: Well I felt that Natsuhi's phone call and that little tweet about Lion were the most interesting points actually, and Ryukishi is a trollmaster so I won't be surprised about him trying to make the gender ambiguous(I mean even the VN fans were raging for some unanswered questions after playing it which were eventually answered(some of them) in manga. It's an old discussion (Well not that old, the manga finished this year), but I was casually browsing the forum so I figured I'd chip in. Did people skip the manga special "Our Confession" (That exists to clear stuff)? Because the conclusions are quite obvious: Yasu's body was damage by the fall, essentially turning Yasu genderless and with a body literally unable to have sex. Shannon vs Kanon is at heart a gender struggle (Hence Zepar and Furfur, two demons of different sexes) and the way Beatrice treats Kanon and Shannon is quite telling. Kanon is a knight "which blade can't even be used to cut roses": while with Shannon she's much harsher, she calls her "disgusting" and "George will not want you once you take off those clothes". Note that both Shannon and Kanon are described as viable possibilities for her. She also ultimately chose death because she was too afraid of people finding the truth about her body (Even thought R07 confirmed both George and Battler would have accepted her). Add to this of course the fact that R07 said "Lion enjoys cooking even though it's usually for girls" and Beatrice chose to introduce herself as "the man from 19 years ago" to the only person who knew her briefly as a baby but doesn't know her current self. Yeah but we were talking about Lion's gender, or Sayo's gender before the accident happened, I am aware of thematic points of of umineko(I think everyone knows it by reading Confession), the controversies are mainly surrounding whether Sayo was a boy(I think there are quite a few hints for that, some of which you said). |
Frostbytes said: Jin_uzuki said: It's an old discussion (Well not that old, the manga finished this year), but I was casually browsing the forum so I figured I'd chip in. Did people skip the manga special "Our Confession" (That exists to clear stuff)? Because the conclusions are quite obvious: Yasu's body was damage by the fall, essentially turning Yasu genderless and with a body literally unable to have sex. Shannon vs Kanon is at heart a gender struggle (Hence Zepar and Furfur, two demons of different sexes) and the way Beatrice treats Kanon and Shannon is quite telling. Kanon is a knight "which blade can't even be used to cut roses": while with Shannon she's much harsher, she calls her "disgusting" and "George will not want you once you take off those clothes". Note that both Shannon and Kanon are described as viable possibilities for her. She also ultimately chose death because she was too afraid of people finding the truth about her body (Even thought R07 confirmed both George and Battler would have accepted her). Add to this of course the fact that R07 said "Lion enjoys cooking even though it's usually for girls" and Beatrice chose to introduce herself as "the man from 19 years ago" to the only person who knew her briefly as a baby but doesn't know her current self. Yeah but we were talking about Lion's gender, or Sayo's gender before the accident happened, I am aware of thematic points of of umineko(I think everyone knows it by reading Confession), the controversies are mainly surrounding whether Sayo was a boy(I think there are quite a few hints for that, some of which you said). Yeah, I was trying to say that in the novel it's possible to guess which was Lion/Yasu's original sex, given it was what caused her a bunch of issues once she hit puberty, which wouldn't have happened if she was the sex she had been raised as, even with her genitals damaged. The manga pretty much reinforces it. (Also sorry for replying to an old post I guess, but I figured 6 months wasn't too long and I wanted to give my hot take given I'm re-reading Umineko right now) |
Jin_uzukiJan 21, 2018 4:11 AM
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| Wonderful conclusion to absolutely wonderful series. This might be one of rare cases, where the adaptation is actually better and more... complete compared to the source material. I remember when I first finished the last episode in the visual novel, I was quite disappointed and displeased with certain choices, which made me dislike Umineko Chiru a little bit... Thankfully now, after reading the full version of Sayo's story and getting many additional scenes I think I was able to understand Ryukishi07's message a little bit more clearly. So I guess without love it really cannot be seen, huh. Definitely will come back to this story again in the future, even though this is always such a harsh, heartbreaking journey to go through. 10/10 |
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Timeless- said: Jin_uzuki said: It's an old discussion (Well not that old, the manga finished this year), but I was casually browsing the forum so I figured I'd chip in. Did people skip the manga special "Our Confession" (That exists to clear stuff)? Because the conclusions are quite obvious: Yasu's body was damage by the fall, essentially turning Yasu genderless and with a body literally unable to have sex. Shannon vs Kanon is at heart a gender struggle (Hence Zepar and Furfur, two demons of different sexes) and the way Beatrice treats Kanon and Shannon is quite telling. Kanon is a knight "which blade can't even be used to cut roses": while with Shannon she's much harsher, she calls her "disgusting" and "George will not want you once you take off those clothes". Note that both Shannon and Kanon are described as viable possibilities for her. She also ultimately chose death because she was too afraid of people finding the truth about her body (Even thought R07 confirmed both George and Battler would have accepted her). Add to this of course the fact that R07 said "Lion enjoys cooking even though it's usually for girls" and Beatrice chose to introduce herself as "the man from 19 years ago" to the only person who knew her briefly as a baby but doesn't know her current self. Yeah but we were talking about Lion's gender, or Sayo's gender before the accident happened, I am aware of thematic points of of umineko(I think everyone knows it by reading Confession), the controversies are mainly surrounding whether Sayo was a boy(I think there are quite a few hints for that, some of which you said). I don't really think Sayo's birth sex matters, it's another one of the mysteries sealed inside the catbox. There's a reason the story goes out of its way to refer to Lion in a gender neutral manner and when asked what their gender is by Will, Lion essentially tells Will that it doesn't ultimately matter. What is relevant is that regardless of whether the accident mutilated her male genitals or mutilated her from the inside to the point of stopping her from developing secondary female sex characteristics, it caused severe body and gender dysmorphia within her. |
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crocodileman94 said: Did they ever explain what Ange saw in episode 4 that made her believe in magic again? it only appears in the umineko tsubasa manga though. |
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| I know this has been said before, but Umineko is honestly one of the best pieces of fiction that has ever been written. I will forever cherish the experience of reading this manga adaptation, as it probably beats its source material by a mile (even though I did miss the banger of a soundtrack, but thankfully it's on Spotify and I could play it during reading). This story honestly has EVERYTHING. It's mainly a mystery, but it's also a drama, romance, thriller, fantasy, horror and comedy, all blended in one exquisite experience. The vast cast of (mostly) great characters and their interpersonal relationships are incredibly done. This story breaks your heart and stomps on it while it's already broken, but also manages to give you so much hope. Not to mention the many twists the story provides, and the even more brain-cracking mysteries. Man oh man, R07 really outdid himself with this one. I don't think he'll ever write something as good as Umineko. I honestly don't think I've ever cried as much reading or watching something aside from this story. Even though some arcs dragged a bit (namely EP2, 5 and 6) they did manage to have their enjoyable parts. Especially 5 and 6 picked themselves up during their respective climaxes. EP1, 3, 4, 7 and 8 though, goshfuckingdarnit, they're A R T. Now, let's hope that Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Gou (and the Umineko teasers in its OP!!) will make for another good When They Cry experience. |
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| I thought I was prepared for this after finishing the VN but this still made me bawl my eyes out lmfao. Umineko genuinely changed my perspective on life and nothing will ever top this story for me tbh. Umineko is the best story I've ever experienced in my entire life. What a masterpiece.Truly PEAK fiction. |
 “Without love, it cannot be seen.” |
| I really love this Episode, and I can't help but be amaze on how this series ends, it's just amazing. I am satisfied how the story ended, and ofcourse I am glad that I finished this series after leaving Episode 7 for a year. And I can say it now, When They Cry Series is a masterpiece. |
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| Welcome back, son of Kyrie! A surprise reunion is a fulfilling way to end the series. All the pieces have gathered together. The chessboard is finally closed for good. |
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