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Echelon said: I think everyone needs to realize that this might need a little time to grow on you. Just as I suspect may have been the case with LOGH for some viewers. I'm not saying I didn't like the episode or anything, but it's just hard to really judge until a handful of episodes are out because it'll probably also mainly be dialogue heavy, focusing mainly on characters, etc, so time is needed. Definitely agree, I actually think this episode was better than LOGH's first. LOGH may be the best anime I've ever seen, but damn I still think it had a very awkward start. Anyway I thought this episode was pretty good, although not amazing. I'm already interested in certain characters (Idris in particular) and since these are the same people that gave us LOGH I think I can assume that the characters will be nicely fleshed out. I also thought going in that Tytania was the ruling family, rather than the most powerful clan in the empire. I like this way better. I also like the idea of the 'landless lord,' I'm guessing that will become important later. The only left is to keep watching and see whether I chant "Sieg Tytania" or "Die Tytania." |
| space opera is a genre I got into from watching Terra E, but I haven't seen LoGH yet. Anyway, Terra E's first 5 episodes or so I found godawful, while the rest was magnificent, so I won't judge any space opera from now on based on the base first few episodes... |
Astaroth said: The only left is to keep watching and see whether I chant "Sieg Tytania" or "Die Tytania." Well, "The Tytania" isn't such a bad thing to say. |
| I don't know that I'd say it's better than the first episode of LoGH since I liked being thrown into the middle of a battle and trying to figure out exactly what was going on, but this first episode was still good. Nothing amazing, though it did start off with what I would call a "public assassination". Similarities are infinite between the two shows, not just in symbolism, characters, plot, but it even extends to the architecture. To people who think the first battle was lame because the of idea that "there was no reason not to use the cannons", it really isn't lame if you think about how they would have to be used, which will explain why they were never used. You couldn't use them in any way where the enemy knew they were being used. They are too easily destroyed, it's a one time use, use it at the wrong time and you just lost the battle. So the only real way to use them is exactly the way they were used, when your enemy can't escape from them and you are guaranteed a devastating outcome. Thus the only appropriate way to use them is to draw your opponent in and unleash fire. Reminds me of Iserlohn fortress in LoGH. Both the opening and ending themes were great. Overall animation is kinda lacking, I'd rather have the LoGH art style from the late 80s. Wish the show displayed more of the horror of war that LoGH did, but aside from the first episode, you didn't see people missing half their body with blood all over the place until after episode 50~. For some reason this show feels like the target audience is much younger than what LoGH was and to me, that was one of the greatest things about LoGH. Tytania still has the ability to be just as sophisticated if not more, since (I believe) Tytania is supposed to be based more around politics than battles. And certainly, if you're not satisfied with the first episode, you should really give it at least one more episode before you turn your back on it. This is the type of show that just gets more and more complex as more things are revealed. Anyway, thats my take on the first episode. |
cglennt said: I don't know that I'd say it's better than the first episode of LoGH since I liked being thrown into the middle of a battle and trying to figure out exactly what was going on, but this first episode was still good. Nothing amazing, though it did start off with what I would call a "public assassination". Similarities are infinite between the two shows, not just in symbolism, characters, plot, but it even extends to the architecture. Yeah, I seriously gave off a huge smirk when the assassination happened. I completely thought of LOGH at that point with that whole scene. Both the opening and ending themes were great. Overall animation is kinda lacking, I'd rather have the LoGH art style from the late 80s. Wish the show displayed more of the horror of war that LoGH did, but aside from the first episode, you didn't see people missing half their body with blood all over the place until after episode 50~. For some reason this show feels like the target audience is much younger than what LoGH was and to me, that was one of the greatest things about LoGH. Tytania still has the ability to be just as sophisticated if not more, since (I believe) Tytania is supposed to be based more around politics than battles. As much as I hate to jump on the bandwagon here, I can agree the animation and art isn't the best. But then I look at some of my favorite shows like Infinite Ryvius, even Terra e for something newer, and shows like that definitely didn't have much of a budget compared to the more popular shows. So I don't really see this an issue for me personally, I think it'll grow on me after time. Not to mention I'm constantly watching a lot of 80's stuff too (oddly enough I usually have issues with late 90's animation, when cel-shading was new and everything ... yikes!) Also as for the gore/violence thing, I imagine LOGH was able to get away with a lot of its graphic violence and stuff like that because it's (I forget how) technically considered to be an OVA, while this is a standard TV series if I'm right. Of course there's still a lot of violent anime's and everything, but I guess that's one way too look at it. |
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shinigami034 said: I think the start of this series was decent. Its hard to make an episode about character introduction mind blowingly amazing but I think it did this pretty well. The gave us some action as well as some characters I want to find more about. Juslan and Idris in particular look interesting. I think Ariabart(or however you spell his name, will die as well as the guy in white. But from here I feel safer to say that I want to see how this plays out in the next 2 or 3 episodes. This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the first episode. I wasn't really expecting one monster of a premiere and the first was adequate enough. I do hope that it will escalate into at least 1/10 of the epic-ness of LoGH in the next 3-4 episodes. |
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| In regards to the lack of violence: Tytania is being broadcast on NHK-BS2 which is a station known for showing more kid friendly shows such as Seirei no Moribito and Allison to Lillia. So, while Tytania isn't aimed at kids, unless Japanese kids like watching shows about old men discussing politics and war strategies over a refreshing beverage, you can pretty much bet there won't be LoGH levels of violence. And, while I think it worked well in LoGH, I'm hoping Tytania will deliver enough in it's plot to make up for other shortcomings since that's the most important part. |
| "What is this faggotry?" is what I thought after watching the first episode. I'm not sure why, I mean, I've seen worse, but for some reason I really disliked it. The animation's the only thing I have absolutely no complaints about. Anyway, I'm not dropping this just yet. We'll see what episode two will bring us. |
RandomOugi said: Those cannons were the new technology that the Tytanias were after. The reason it hadn't been used was because this was the first space battle since it had been 'completed.'I completely agree with naikou's expectancy for better military strategies. The dummy assault ships and the secret weapon aspect were lame. Why such a powerful weapon was never used in battle before just because it isn't stable? It's not like no ever one thought of auto-firing them like Hulic did, the only excuse they can come up is that it's expensive to build, but I'd guess at the current state, many countries would be willing to pay the price if it meant the ability to stand up to a Tytanian attack. Fai said: Ok, so I went and watched eps 1&2. While it's not aweful, it's a bit odd. I may keep an eye on it, just to see WTF is going on.JadeMatrix said: Well, you heard wrong. Of course opinions can differ, for those who like darker shows SINS is a cyberpunk dystopia masterpiece and tragic story. Those who like lighter shows - of course they won't like the basic premise of post-world-end setting, but even those will notice a great job done in animation and music....to replace Casshern Sins (which I heard was aweful, thus didn't even start). If you can, watch both, because even if I was waiting for Tytania ever since its announcement (considering its kind of, LOGH successor), Casshern SINS was a total sleeper hit for me. |
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| After the curtain drew back to reveal the commanders of the flagship, there was no way I could take this show seriously anymore. The show is so ridiculously over-the-top, that it became just a blast to watch. I wonder if this is meant to be a spoof of LoGH. |
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JadeMatrix said: [...] but I was impressed at how realistic the space battles were (the ships handled like real spaceships). And on the reverse I found myself inexplicibly being annoyed at how inaccurate it was, which is ridiculous as I knew it was going to be LOGH-style Space Opera, what with space being an ocean and all. So, fine first episode. Not too spectacular, got a giggle out of Liptea tea. Potential laid out for intricate politics already, but the similarities with LOGH is a bit grating. I don't think watching the two shows in parallel will do me good - I hope the plots and similarities diverge as it drags on, never to meet again. |
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Kaiserpingvin said: What I meant was, it's no Star Wars. My reasons:JadeMatrix said: [...] but I was impressed at how realistic the space battles were (the ships handled like real spaceships). And on the reverse I found myself inexplicibly being annoyed at how inaccurate it was, which is ridiculous as I knew it was going to be LOGH-style Space Opera, what with space being an ocean and all. 1. Lack of small craft 2. The ships (okay, what else do I call them) don't all travel pointing forward. Although they do appear streamlined, that's just æsthetics: they even use positioning jets to turn. 3. The battle formations are 3-dimensional. The one thing that did annoy me was the way they 'bounced' when they passed through the... portals were they? |
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JadeMatrix said: What I meant was, it's no Star Wars. My reasons: 1. Lack of small craft 2. The ships (okay, what else do I call them) don't all travel pointing forward. Although they do appear streamlined, that's just æsthetics: they even use positioning jets to turn. 3. The battle formations are 3-dimensional. The one thing that did annoy me was the way they 'bounced' when they passed through the... portals were they? Ah, right. Fair enough. I liked the bouncing, actually. It was just silly and cool enough to work. I imagine they were hyperspace portals; kind of a necessity if it's going to take place over several galaxies. |
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Kaiserpingvin said: By the way, what exactly did you find annoying about it? Just out of curiosity.JadeMatrix said: ... Ah, right. Fair enough. I liked the bouncing, actually. It was just silly and cool enough to work. I imagine they were hyperspace portals; kind of a necessity if it's going to take place over several galaxies. |
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JadeMatrix said: By the way, what exactly did you find annoying about it? Just out of curiosity. I am not quite sure as it's obviously not shooting at realism; but I kept thinking, "in the future we will not be human" and "galactic empires clearly would have more advanced technology than this". And, most of all, "space combat doesn't look like this in the slightest". "Real" space combat, if it ever comes into being by some geek-satisfying nick of fate, will be long and drawn-out (like, months or years). The distances will be humongous and most of your energy is finding the foe, and then calculating what route he's taking - so that when the shot finally has gone far enough, the target hasn't switched direction and is out of harms way. Also incredibly vital and pivotal would be damage control and making sure you're neither found nor hit. It's far closer to submarine-to-submarine combat than aerospace combat (like Star Wars) or marine combat. Tytania is pretty much like a slightly 3D seaship battle - which of course is fine, it's not aiming for anything else, and it does what it does nicely, but somehow it really bugged me. It might just not have been FABULOUS enough for my suspension of disbelief to kick in, glorious draperies and hiking aside. |
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| Huge disappointment is kinda huge D: ... I was hoping for something epic, and this was far from it. Gow dang you Artland, gow dang... |
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| Drinking tea in space during a battle was the best part about this. |
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Kaiserpingvin said: Well, more advanced technology aside, wouldn't they find it more efficient to battle in close range? Sure, their weapons and sensors may be able to reach hundreds of miles out, but the closer you are, the less margin of error there is. This would apply to both sides (unless, like in this case, one side has a huge bomb thingey that will decimate the battlefield).JadeMatrix said: By the way, what exactly did you find annoying about it? Just out of curiosity. I am not quite sure as it's obviously not shooting at realism; but I kept thinking, "in the future we will not be human" and "galactic empires clearly would have more advanced technology than this". And, most of all, "space combat doesn't look like this in the slightest". "Real" space combat, if it ever comes into being by some geek-satisfying nick of fate, will be long and drawn-out (like, months or years). The distances will be humongous and most of your energy is finding the foe, and then calculating what route he's taking - so that when the shot finally has gone far enough, the target hasn't switched direction and is out of harms way. Also incredibly vital and pivotal would be damage control and making sure you're neither found nor hit. It's far closer to submarine-to-submarine combat than aerospace combat (like Star Wars) or marine combat. Tytania is pretty much like a slightly 3D seaship battle - which of course is fine, it's not aiming for anything else, and it does what it does nicely, but somehow it really bugged me. It might just not have been FABULOUS enough for my suspension of disbelief to kick in, glorious draperies and hiking aside. The submarine-to-submarine comparison doesn't really work here, because submarines are nearly blind in their environment, and take longer to locate the enemy (that's why you rarely get submarine-to-submarine battles, it's usually -to-land and -to-ship). In space, you almost always have a direct line-of-sight to the enemy, more (but not quite) like surface ships. I had to retype that several times, but I'm still not quite sure I got my point across. |
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JadeMatrix said: Kaiserpingvin said: What I meant was, it's no Star Wars. My reasons:JadeMatrix said: [...] but I was impressed at how realistic the space battles were (the ships handled like real spaceships). And on the reverse I found myself inexplicibly being annoyed at how inaccurate it was, which is ridiculous as I knew it was going to be LOGH-style Space Opera, what with space being an ocean and all. 1. Lack of small craft 2. The ships (okay, what else do I call them) don't all travel pointing forward. Although they do appear streamlined, that's just æsthetics: they even use positioning jets to turn. 3. The battle formations are 3-dimensional. The one thing that did annoy me was the way they 'bounced' when they passed through the... portals were they? I felt quite the opposite I thought they where very 2-D , it was more like a revolutionary war style fight, line up ship after ship, stand still and unload rounds and hope the sheilds hold. Battles on the ocean don't even play out like that. If you wanted to be realistic fights wouldn't take place battle ship to battle ship, more likely carries would dominated just like they do now. I didn't think they battles where realistic in the slightests they looked like every other space battle in anime. Plus I hate when in space battles everyone just seems to have the right orentation, if it was realistic every ship would probably have diffrent vectors of flight and orentation. |
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JadeMatrix said: Well, more advanced technology aside, wouldn't they find it more efficient to battle in close range? Sure, their weapons and sensors may be able to reach hundreds of miles out, but the closer you are, the less margin of error there is. This would apply to both sides (unless, like in this case, one side has a huge bomb thingey that will decimate the battlefield). The submarine-to-submarine comparison doesn't really work here, because submarines are nearly blind in their environment, and take longer to locate the enemy (that's why you rarely get submarine-to-submarine battles, it's usually -to-land and -to-ship). In space, you almost always have a direct line-of-sight to the enemy, more (but not quite) like surface ships. I had to retype that several times, but I'm still not quite sure I got my point across. Actually, no. The distances, as I said, are immense. Distances as huge as the diametre of Earth would be pretty much nothing. Since there's practically no matter to interfere with projectiles (there are pockets of gas and the rogue minor celestial object), they can go on forever. Newtons first law of motion, you know. Your ships will continue moving until you use reverse-thrusting to stop them (and indeed, engines wouldn't be needed more than giving the initial push forward, sidewards or wherever). Maneuvering would have to take into account celestial objects' gravity, and you'd probably use planets and the like to attain speed. Also, the closer you are, the larger the risk of getting hit - which you do not want to be, surviving in space without air or ship is hard. Not to mention even getting close would be hard - you'd need to know the target position, maneuver correctly, and make sure they do not see nor fire at you. That time you could spend firing at them instead, with the bonus they will be unable to retaliate or plan evasion. Direct line of sight, yes, but you do not see anything. Space is dark, very dark, and at the distances we are talking about - AUs - perspective messes with you, not to mention asteroids and weirder things. Lidar, guesswork and heat-detection would be what you'd go after, and hiding your own heat emissions would be very central to staying alive. The Star Trek solution of being invisible is useless. Sure, there's nearly none submarine-to-submarine warfare; but then there's no spacecraft-to-spacecraft warfare either *cough* I am such a geek : D |
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Kaiserpingvin said: JadeMatrix said: ... ... I just realized, we're arguing for either/or here. But in reality, both methods of battle would probably apply. For deep space battles, the lack of light and the greater open space would allow for battles over greater distances. These would be more tactical, almost turn-based battles. In a planetary system, however, where there is a sun (or more) to add light, and also 'plenty' of obstacles, battles would probably be fought in closer quarters. In some cases, they would even be fought in orbit (battling over planetary dominance, etc.). Kaiserpingvin said: Notice that the ships in question only used their boosters when moving into the original formation (exiting the portals) and when advancing. When they turned, they turned on axis. (Question is, how did they decelerate? Maybe the way jet planes do (reversing engine thrust with moveable cowlings).)Since there's practically no matter to interfere with projectiles (there are pockets of gas and the rogue minor celestial object), they can go on forever. Newtons first law of motion, you know. Your ships will continue moving until you use reverse-thrusting to stop them (and indeed, engines wouldn't be needed more than giving the initial push forward, sidewards or wherever). Jigero said: All the ships in a fleet/army would probably have the same relative orientation.Plus I hate when in space battles everyone just seems to have the right orentation, if it was realistic every ship would probably have diffrent vectors of flight and orentation. |
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| That was much better than I expected. Really nice episode, I like the music too. Looking forward to more. |
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CCZilla said: After the curtain drew back to reveal the commanders of the flagship, there was no way I could take this show seriously anymore. The show is so ridiculously over-the-top, that it became just a blast to watch. I wonder if this is meant to be a spoof of LoGH. Inclined to agree, except for the blast to watch bit. Just made me miss Seikai. D: I'll give it a few more episodes but it'll get dropped if it doesn't get interesting. |
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| Ranting nerd is ranting. About the concept of realistic space battles, I'd imagine the most plausible way of battling in space would be to hide a carrier craft away in an asteroid field and launch an ungodly amount of remote controlled weapon drones and missiles. As for lasers, they would be useless for anything other than maybe point defense. A reflective surface deflects a laser, yes? Shouldn't all ships be covered with such? As for tight fleet formations, i can't ever see hat happening. AOE damage from splinter bombs or missiles would easily take out an entire fleet, in a real space battle, the ships in the same "fleet" should be so far away from each other they wouldn't be able to see each other, much less crash. And also, how does one find an enemy fleet? with such enormous distances, you can't really find anything, unless you know their location and decide to camp there. If you had a fixed network of Wormhole Gateways, it would be one thing, but if you can conjure up such at the push of a button, things get that much harder. And even if you know where they'll strike, can you really defend a planet for example? How would you do that? Planets are big and slow, hitting them from far away would be a cakewalk, however, hitting a moving fleet from a planet or from it's orbit... But I digress, apart fro the usual inaccuracies in the depictions of space warfare, I have high hopes for this series. LoGH will undoubtedly prove superior, but this will probably still be a success as far as my viewing pleasure is concerned. |
| Great episode, I enjoyed it so far. Good animation and OP/ED. Great start and it have great potential for sure. I'm looking forward to more. l |
Baman said: Ranting nerd is ranting. About the concept of realistic space battles, I'd imagine the most plausible way of battling in space would be to hide a carrier craft away in an asteroid field and launch an ungodly amount of remote controlled weapon drones and missiles. As for lasers, they would be useless for anything other than maybe point defense. A reflective surface deflects a laser, yes? Shouldn't all ships be covered with such? As for tight fleet formations, i can't ever see hat happening. AOE damage from splinter bombs or missiles would easily take out an entire fleet, in a real space battle, the ships in the same "fleet" should be so far away from each other they wouldn't be able to see each other, much less crash. And also, how does one find an enemy fleet? with such enormous distances, you can't really find anything, unless you know their location and decide to camp there. If you had a fixed network of Wormhole Gateways, it would be one thing, but if you can conjure up such at the push of a button, things get that much harder. And even if you know where they'll strike, can you really defend a planet for example? How would you do that? Planets are big and slow, hitting them from far away would be a cakewalk, however, hitting a moving fleet from a planet or from it's orbit... But I digress, apart fro the usual inaccuracies in the depictions of space warfare, I have high hopes for this series. LoGH will undoubtedly prove superior, but this will probably still be a success as far as my viewing pleasure is concerned. I just want to pinpoint you on the radar of space: 1. There can be sensors that detect shapes with waves that are adapted to space constructive environment. 2. There can be probes, droids or any futuristic such dispositif to act as sensors to alert. Realistic there are some radars for space BUT they are only to detect at a limited range far from the time perspective of Tytania setting. |
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angel999 said: I just want to pinpoint you on the radar of space: 1. There can be sensors that detect shapes with waves that are adapted to space constructive environment. 2. There can be probes, droids or any futuristic such dispositif to act as sensors to alert. Realistic there are some radars for space BUT they are only to detect at a limited range far from the time perspective of Tytania setting. But if you know where the enemy is, you would still have to get there, and by then the enemy could be anywhere. And there's always the possibility of decoys, you could just make a lot ship massed drones. |
Baman said: But realize the enormous amount of resources it would take to play cat-and-mouse like that in space. The battle just wouldn't be worth it.angel999 said: I just want to pinpoint you on the radar of space: 1. There can be sensors that detect shapes with waves that are adapted to space constructive environment. 2. There can be probes, droids or any futuristic such dispositif to act as sensors to alert. Realistic there are some radars for space BUT they are only to detect at a limited range far from the time perspective of Tytania setting. But if you know where the enemy is, you would still have to get there, and by then the enemy could be anywhere. And there's always the possibility of decoys, you could just make a lot ship massed drones. Also, mirrored ships wouldn't work, because no mirror except a pure energy shield (Asimov's, not the typical scifi transparent bubble) is perfect enough. The laser (depending on the power) would still burn through it. And then as to planetary defence: it's still feasable with a fleet. To get around a defending fleet and still be able to do some damage, a much larger force would be needed, because otherwise your forces would be spread too thin. As to hitting the planet, whaddya got, Death Star? Doctor Device? I still hold that 'close'-quarter combat is still realistic. Only problem would be cluster bombs, but hey, who uses those in atmospheric combat? The distances are still too large for that to be effective. I thought this discussion had died already ;) |
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| Well, I'm no laser expert, but I'm pretty sure having a mirror would be better than not having it. Also, you could just make the entirety of the armour by a sea of nanobots (or attobots, whatever tech you have) that could reconstruct themselves into different matter. LoGH's Iserlohn Fortress seems to use something similar. As for planetary defense, all you need is a single ship withing firing range of the planet, and you could do enormous damage. Be it nuclear missiles, kinetic ballista (as in USA's "Rod's from God" concept), missiles containing toxic, chemical, viral or nanobot weaponry. with this, you could pretty much cleanse a world of life by destroying the atmosphere or whatever, without any Superlaser or Little Doctor. The missile would still have to hit though, so i suppose the best planetary defense would be a chain of ground and orbit based point defense installations, preventing weapons to strike the world and enemy transports from landing on it. As for cluster bombs, you already brought up the Molecular Disruption Device, which pretty much produce the same effect. I do believe a civilization advanced enough to stroll around space would have some pretty awesome weapons as well, but the problem with pretty much every Space Opera and SciFi setting is that we simply put some integral techs there to allow space travel, and then apply whatever strategies and techniques we use today at sea or land. The "Space is an Ocean" analogy is drawn a tad too far sometimes. But it's jolly good entertainment, I'm just ranting for the heck of it. :D |
| Nerd rantings! They always brighten my day! :D First of all: you don't have to go anywhere to fight a foe in space. Your range is unlimited with pretty much any weapon. The hard thing is to figure out when the trajectory of your attack and the trajectory of the enemy intersects. There's no benefit in having a close formation, none at all - so you wouldn't have one. Say the opponent uses a nuclear warhead, you're a goner. You're far easier to detect. You have more limited mobility (don't want ships crashing into eachother now would ya?). Things in space have a hard time staying stationary because there's so many gravitation sources making themselves known but no friction to counteract them. It'd be a mobile, messy affair. Baman said: But it's jolly good entertainment, I'm just ranting for the heck of it. :D Yep, the later episodes have been fabulous enough for me to suspend disbelief. |
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| Although if you managed to achieve a fleet synchronization (Like the Yuuzhan Vong in Star Wars), a closely knit formation may be able to effectively do combat, provided they had a formidable point defense system to intercept AOE weaponry. But I'd still vote for single, heavily armed and armoured multipurpose behemoths rather than a large fleet. |
| The space + ships were really CRISP. I'll be following this now... nice storyline. Almost overwhelming (the characters introduced in just the first episode). I like it. |
| This show got the potential indeed. I rearlly hope it develops to a good show! |
| ~de Arimasu |
Kaiserpingvin said: There's no benefit in having a close formation, none at all - so you wouldn't have one. No benefit when it comes to actual battle, maybe, but having a closer formation would probably make you harder to detect. Makes it easier to move around without pesky scout ships finding one of the outliers of your fleet. Although the radar in Tytania seems to be worse than useless anyway, so yeah... |
| nice strategy, a little suicidal, but hey it worked |
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| Nice start^^ Hope it remains as good as the first episode! I'm really liking Lydia, gotta feeling she's gonna play an important part as well O: ^^ |
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| Hrmmm, it certainly doesn't contain the same level of charm as LoGH but it does have some interesting aspects to it (as of right now) although I just pray that its rating is so low purely because people hated it for not being as good as LoGH (and not because it is a complete and utter failure) . . . |
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| Well that was kinda interesting. The theme relates to space opera although I've yet to see LOGH. There's also a princess character that was shown so I wonder what kinda role she will play. I'm not a big fan of the space battles yet but the characters seems interesting enough. I wonder which duke will deliver the most promise though. |
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| A friend suggested I watch this first before I restart LoGH just so I can view Tytania without constantly comparing it to LoGH. Seems okay so far though that battle seemed...lacking. |
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