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Feb 9, 2015 7:54 AM
#1

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Mm, interesting story this episode. I thought the fantasy and the fiction parts remain pretty consistent on most parts. And the more I think about it, the more unique I think this series can get with its gimmicks.

Yuri vibes was still there. Good to know the bear trap didn't kill a certain someone from last time though. Happy Birthday Tsubaki~
Feb 9, 2015 10:17 AM
#2

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That episode was amazing, i don't Really know now where the story can go from now on. I loved it, happy birthday kureha :(, the ost was amazing in the birthday party and at the end after the ED? KUMA SHOCK. Anyway i didn't get the story of the forest girl and the moon girl maybe i should wait for the eng sub xD. 9/10 ep.
XenocrisiMar 7, 2016 1:41 PM
Feb 9, 2015 11:36 AM
#3

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That was not a good birthday for Kureha. That kuma shock at the end there.
Feb 9, 2015 11:40 AM
#4

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Kureha going into despair once again… her classmates are very skilled manipulators

8/10
俺の命を百合に。
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Feb 9, 2015 11:44 AM
#5

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So as thought the Invisible Storm represents the herd mentality of society perceiving Class-S relationships of homosexuality as "special friendship" that you grow out of, while actual bonafide homosexual love is harassed and bullied against.

I am guessing the teacher is the person whose face was not shown and she is manipulating the invisible storm group to hide her own preferences(and most likely killed Kureha's mother to hide her own preferences).

Also this confirms the idea of Sumika being part of the invisible girls but at the same time someone who wanted to come out but got peer pressured into conforming thus dying.


The tale told also was interesting. Still did not fully wrap my head around it.
Feb 9, 2015 11:52 AM
#6
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Fantastic episode, wow.

Moon girl = Kureha
Forest girl = Ginko

The teacher is most likely the one who is manipulating the mob. She killed the mother of Kureha surely.

I didn't fully grasp what ''Breaking the 'you' in the mirror'' means, anyone got an idea on that?
SmudyFeb 9, 2015 11:55 AM
Feb 9, 2015 12:05 PM
#7

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Smudy said:
Fantastic episode, wow.

Moon girl = Kureha
Forest girl = Ginko

The teacher is most likely the one who is manipulating the mob. She killed the mother of Kureha surely.

I didn't fully grasp what ''Breaking the 'you' in the mirror'' means, anyone got an idea on that?


Haven't wrapped my head around the fairytale yet, but I am thinking it is about confronting the "self" of "I" which has to do with self acceptance both in terms of perception of the world and yourself and your own sexuality.

Breaking out of your perception of the world, etc.

I am thinking that Moon Girl and Forest Girl can be two different things depending on where they go with this:
1) Kureha's mom and Teacher (if the mother was writing this from her own experiences , in a way outing the teacher, hence why the teacher killed her)
2) Ginko and Kureha (if the mother was writing from what she sees around her)
Feb 9, 2015 12:05 PM
#8

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I think Yurika Hakonaka was the one who kill Kureha's mother. I also believe Yurika is the one who's pulling all the strings. And I also believe Yurika and Kaoru had off screen lesbian sex during 13:04 to 13:54.
Feb 9, 2015 12:10 PM
#9
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Huh, saw the after credits scene. So what's her crime? I'm guessing that it was her being selfish and letting the love of her love die?
Feb 9, 2015 12:12 PM

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Smudy said:
Huh, saw the after credits scene. So what's her crime? I'm guessing that it was her being selfish and letting the love of her love die?

Yeah.
I am guessing she also saw how Kureha's mother was killed and also did nothing hence why she says she is criminal bear even before going to human world.
Feb 9, 2015 12:15 PM
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Two separate crimes then (i did think that she might have killed the mother or had her die). I wonder how she is gonna deal with this, i'm sure she can't live with this any longer.
Feb 9, 2015 12:15 PM
*hug noises*

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can't everyone just accept each other and live in harmony together?

such a cruel world we live in *sob* </3
Feb 9, 2015 12:28 PM
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That was a worst birthday gift for Kureha.
Feb 9, 2015 12:36 PM

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Smudy said:
Huh, saw the after credits scene. So what's her crime? I'm guessing that it was her being selfish and letting the love of her love die?


yeah

because if sumika was killed then she could get kureha for herself
Feb 9, 2015 12:46 PM

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Great episode. The tale of the Moon Girl and the Forest Girl was nice. Could it be that Kureha´s mother wrote it for the case that Kureha forget about Ginko?
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Feb 9, 2015 12:50 PM
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I'm shocked how this is still only 6,40 (fighting with fucking Isuca FFS). That is a crime, fkin criminal-bears!
Feb 9, 2015 12:58 PM

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Hmm okay. I get it now completely I think.

Never giving up on your love is the shows way of saying to always be true to yourself and never try to change yourself just to fit in with others.

Loving someone and being their friend in this world means they like you for who you are and not for who you are pretending to be. Thus is why those in the social norm groups are "Invisible" because they aren't being themselves, they are just conforming to the social norms.

Very intriguing way of presenting it and I feel like if I were to rewatch this series it would be a whole other experience all together.

I also really liked the fairy tale in the beginning. The tale of the Moon Girl and the Forest Girl. Obviously a parallel to Ginko and Kureha. Ginko wants to give her promised kiss to Kureha thus becoming her true love(Or true friend). My guess is that by breaking the mirror and by extension yourself, you are opening up to new things thus becoming more open minded to other people. In a way this sort of makes this show a coming of age story. Unfortunately I am not all that interested in Kureha's character, she is still rather bland to me.

I think the reason why "Friend" and "Lover" in this show are so interchangeable is because this message is rather relevant to not only making friends but also becoming lovers.

I think I finally understand just about everything now. I will now be able to enjoy this series in full. Good episode, though I would like more fleshing out for the bullies as well. It make the scene where they were picking on Kureha to seem very black and white and I don't really like that.
Feb 9, 2015 1:09 PM
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Can't wait for the next episode now that most of the cards are on the table. But there is something i don't understand quite well. I'm a bit confused, why did Kaoru[white girl] had the same expression of disbelief when she saw Ginko in flames as she had in previous episode when she ''found out'' they were bears. Couldn't she taken advantage of this situation rather then turn around and leave
, Kureha probably at this point knows with what she is dealing with, at least for her classmates.
Feb 9, 2015 1:19 PM
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That "Moon Girl and Forest Girl" story was quite interesting. In the current timeline, I think Moon girl is Kureha while Forest girl is Ginko. It could also refer to Kureha's mom and the headmistress.

I hope Kaoru somehow gets eaten by a bear by the time this show ends. She and the other students are such a bunch of bitches. >.<

Good episode. Looks like Ginko saw Sumika getting eaten from a distance and considers that as a crime of her for not doing anything.

Feb 9, 2015 1:19 PM

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Goodness, this has gotten really good! Im eagerly anticipating the next episode!
Feb 9, 2015 1:42 PM

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I think maybe Ginko's crime is her jealousy... In the last episode, she said she wanted to monopolize Kureha, being her only friend- Maybe her crime was seeing Sumika getting eaten and not do anything about it out of jealousy, since she wouldn't be in their way anymore?

Anyway, overall, a really good episode. I was worried something worse would happen like Ginko get even more injured or someone dying... But still, it was such a horrible and sick thing those girls did to Kureha, I was cheering for her to punch them.
Feb 9, 2015 1:56 PM
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private_eye said:
why did Kaoru[white girl] had the same expression of disbelief when she saw Ginko in flames as she had in previous episode when she ''found out'' they were bears. Couldn't she taken advantage of this situation rather then turn around and leave


Kaoru was shocked because Ginko showed that love can be true, that she at least was willing to risk her life in order to help Kureha. Since the whole point was that Kaoru wanted to drag Sumika and Kureha down to her own level, to be exposed to something greater than she was capable of was "shocking". All she could do, when faced with her own pettiness was to run away.

I do have to say that this episode I think was the strongest one to support "this is about homophobia" argument but I still don't think the show will ultimately be about it. After all the three male bears had called Ginko to warn her that her time had come to "prove her love", a few episodes ago they were supposed to be part of the conspiracy against "yuri". So that argument has fallen apart.

Ginko's crime is obviously that she will stand aside to let Kureha's loved ones get eaten (Sumika and probably the Mother) because she wants to possess Kureha by herself, that is a crime against love.

True love is where one is willing to lose their loved one if that makes the love one truly happy (parents parting with their children, Sumika parting for Kureha's sake).

The teacher is also a destructive yuri example. In her case I also think it was possessiveness (she might have eaten the mother in a jealous rage over Kureha and Ginko), and since she obviously is the motive power behind Kaoru it seems clear that she is still obsessed with destroying the idea of love all together.

Kaoru I am guessing is about to be "chomped chomped", most likely by the teacher. Hope that happens next week!
Feb 9, 2015 1:57 PM
The Komori

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I think that the Principal is the one behind everything but I feel like that's too easy....

Good episode overall though
Feb 9, 2015 2:01 PM

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Tokoya said:
I think that the Principal is the one behind everything but I feel like that's too easy....

Good episode overall though


I feel like Teacher is behind the invisible storm and the death of the mother.

But the bear court of princes is behind the rest of strange shit going on.
Feb 9, 2015 2:23 PM

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Very strong episode this week. Loved the birthday party scene and the music used there, too. Sucks that there's only six episodes left, and even worse, it's terrible that this show has such a low rating.
Feb 9, 2015 2:45 PM

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Mormegil said:
Very strong episode this week. Loved the birthday party scene and the music used there, too. Sucks that there's only six episodes left, and even worse, it's terrible that this show has such a low rating.


Not enough explosions.
Too deep.
Not enough sawano ost.
Feb 9, 2015 3:27 PM

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Is it just me, or is the show getting a little easier to follow? It seems like they could have spread stuff more evenly over the first few episodes when introducing all the metaphors, symbols, and ideas. It'll be interesting to re-watch this and see how being able to watch episodes back to back without a week in between affects how the pacing and timing of introducing all this stuff feel.

I was really hoping for (and slightly expecting, because of last week's episode) that we'd see more characterization for Ginko along the lines they did. It's a little weird because I feel like I should be angry at Ginko for just standing by while Sumika was eaten (and I am a little bit), but at the same time it's good characterization, which makes me happy, so I can't stay mad at it.

The stuff with Sumika was really good, too. It confirmed my suspicions from the first episode that Sumika knew something, but the revelation of what it was that she knew and how she reacted to it was really interesting (and somewhat frustrating because I disagree with that notion).

The mirror in the story was also interesting. On the one hand, I saw it as being indicative of how, when we look out from our own "world" into other "worlds", we see those worlds through what we've known so far from our own world. Also, like others have said, there's the whole thing about really evaluating who you are (looking straight at yourself in the mirror, warts and all).

I saw the breaking of the mirror in a couple different ways, which depend on how you interpret the fairy tale context. If you accept the fairy tale as a genuine presentation of what the show's values of love are, then staying true to your love and breaking the mirror presents such selfless love in a positive light. It also shows courage because you risk "losing your life", by being 100% true to yourself and your love when the people around you likely conform to varying degrees (conformity often helps self-preservation, so those who conform may see non-conformists as just messing things up for everyone else, and may thus view them in a negative light). In a non-love context breaking the mirror would also represent the willingness and/or ability to recognize your faults as well as your strengths and the desire to not stay static as a person.

On the other hand, if you interpret the fairy tale as being more like how episode 4 used the setup, to mock and take jabs at traditional notions of love and what's acceptable, then the whole thing becomes commentary on how society perpetuates its narrow notions of love and how things should be done.

I'm really torn on that part because I think there's decent support for both interpretations, and given what's happened in the show so far, it really seems like it could go either way. Then again, maybe that's the point. Maybe it's saying that it's not as simple as "one way is right and another way is wrong", and that both can be equally valid.

If you take the angle of the story being about Ginko and Kureha, I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens when it comes time to "break the mirror". Kureha told Sumika without hesitation that she'd do it, but will she really follow through on her words with action when confronted with the actual situation?

Takuan_Soho said:
private_eye said:
why did Kaoru[white girl] had the same expression of disbelief when she saw Ginko in flames as she had in previous episode when she ''found out'' they were bears. Couldn't she taken advantage of this situation rather then turn around and leave


Kaoru was shocked because Ginko showed that love can be true, that she at least was willing to risk her life in order to help Kureha. Since the whole point was that Kaoru wanted to drag Sumika and Kureha down to her own level, to be exposed to something greater than she was capable of was "shocking". All she could do, when faced with her own pettiness was to run away.


To me, it didn't seem like Kaoru wanted to drag them down to her level as much as just tear their spirits apart and break them, due to both her own views on love and the fact that they weren't willing to submit and be invisible. Her demeanor and the way she talked about it all gave me the impression that Kaoru doesn't see her "level" as being below theirs. If anything, she thinks she's above them because she believes herself to be right.

Takuan_Soho said:
True love is where one is willing to lose their loved one if that makes the love one truly happy (parents parting with their children, Sumika parting for Kureha's sake).


I'm not really sure yet what the show's actual take on love is (and I probably won't be until after the show has finished airing and I've seen and had time to really digest all the episodes), so this could just be my own disagreement with that idea of what true love is, but at this point in time I'm leaning toward that idea of selfless love being true love as something the show ultimately won't endorse. Between all the Promise Kiss stuff (particularly in this episode and episode 4's use of it combined with the fairy tale setting) and the way things have been presented with various people presiding over the notion of what true love "really" is and how people can do certain things, in general it seems like a criticism of those things. Because of who says it and how it's said, I'm hesitant to take what the show is currently saying true love is at face value.

Kinds of love other than selfless love can be just as real, just as true. Selfless love isn't always right (and this is where my frustration with Sumika comes in). What Sumika planned to do was to sacrifice her ability to be with Kureha by becoming invisible, with the impression that, because Kureha would then be spared from the Invisible Storm, she'd be happy, or safe. From Kureha's reaction to Sumika being eaten, I think it's pretty clear she wouldn't have been happy if Sumika had left her, and even if she would've been safe, she would've also been miserable. In this way, these kinds of things actually seem to me to be criticisms of the romanticization of selfless love.

If you think about the term "true love", it comes from fairy tales, which Ikuhara likes to use to tear down traditional notions of things. Fairy tales are essentially society's way of perpetuating its beliefs and values. This isn't always bad, but there are many such notions that are harmful, or at least limiting. From what I understand of Utena, and from what I've read by others talking about his MO, Ikuhara essentially presents a fairy tale setup as is, and later on turns it on its head and calls bullshit on it. But before the change, it's presented as completely valid, right, and normal.
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Feb 9, 2015 3:58 PM

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The moon girl & the forest girl. Sad I will never get to hear how it ends.

Amazing episode this week. First time seeing the subs for the opening. Love how the actually words match up to the visuals. Kind of like lyric sync AMV. Man this episode show a lot of back story to Sumika. I was waiting for this and man it opened up a lot of things. The story about the moon and forest girls made me think that Tsukibaki mom knew that Ginko lover her and wanted to help her out, but died before she could.

Talk about a messed up birthday party. I pretty sure the principle is the one who made the girls do that. Also I'm think that she might be a bear herself. Plus the judges are up to some shit too. Also at the end of the credits gives us a hint on why Ginko is a criminal bear. Man this getting better and better bye the week. Sad to see most people gave up on it. Anyway can't wait till next week.

5/5.
AntearionFeb 9, 2015 4:10 PM
Feb 9, 2015 4:17 PM
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Sejin said:
To me, it didn't seem like Kaoru wanted to drag them down to her level as much as just tear their spirits apart and break them, due to both her own views on love and the fact that they weren't willing to submit and be invisible. Her demeanor and the way she talked about it all gave me the impression that Kaoru doesn't see her "level" as being below theirs. If anything, she thinks she's above them because she believes herself to be right.


If it was merely Kaoru "being right", then she wouldn't have had to be so cruel about it. Even hatred or dislike doesn't explain the need to "tear and break" Kureha (homophobes are not exactly well known for their subtlety). No, the desire to destroy something pure is unfortunately all too human a trait, the reason for it is resentment and envy (though of course the attacker will convince themselves of some "noble" reason for doing it (religion, state, culture, whatever), but scratch a bit and you'll be amazed how quick those get tossed and the real reason, their lack of self worth, shines through).

As for the mirror. I think the proper interpretation is that when we look at love we far too often see it through "rose color glasses." We protect our wants and needs onto the other person. So the mirror means that we are only seeing ourselves, not the other person, which is why "pure love" requires one to break the mirror, to see the other person for what they truly are.

Sejin said:
just be my own disagreement with that idea of what true love is, but at this point in time I'm leaning toward that idea of selfless love being true love as something the show ultimately won't endorse. Between all the Promise Kiss stuff (particularly in this episode and episode 4's use of it combined with the fairy tale setting) and the way things have been presented with various people presiding over the notion of what true love "really" is and how people can do certain things, in general it seems like a criticism of those things. Because of who says it and how it's said, I'm hesitant to take what the show is currently saying true love is at face value.


I naturally disagree. Notice that all the other notions of "love" have proven to be destructive, so far only Kureha and Lulu have been the two who have escaped harm so far and they are the only two whose love has been pure (Ginko is still in atonement, and Sumika at the end fell short, she was a little TOO willing to be the martyr - though I am sure there is more to her story to be revealed)

Speaking more of Sumika, the frustration you felt with her should be felt, but it wasn't "selfless" love that motivated her. Far from it. True love is when the other person's happiness is important to your own happiness. Sumika made her decision without thinking of how Kureha would feel about it. Far from being "selfless", her decision was based entirely on her "self". When I said about that true love requires one to let the other person go, it was meant in the context of "if that is what the other wants". Sumika denied Kureha any input into this decision.
Feb 9, 2015 4:21 PM

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Is it OK to commit the seven deadly sins for the sake of your love?
Is it OK to eat kill others to protect your beloved one?
Is it OK to believe in God and be gay?
Is it OK to break the mirror sacrifice yourself to save your precious one?
Is it OK to break the mirror come out of your closeted world and look at it from afar?
Is it OK to break the mirror sacrifice your love by figuring out that it is one-sided and nobody's waiting behind the door.

Ikuhara-sensei, I love you so much! And even though it's VERY unlikely that you're reading these words, please, let me whole-heartedly thank you for your shows - your Promise Kisses. Many will hate and kick them away. And we might not catch all the meanings. But one thing's for sure, your works will stay with us forever!

The question is
Who's going to be punished? And what will be the most unjust punishment?
soulelleFeb 9, 2015 4:29 PM
Feb 9, 2015 4:28 PM
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soulelle said:
Is it OK to commit the seven deadly sins for the sake of your love?
No, those actual get in the way of love, that is why they are considered "deadly".
soulelle said:
Is it OK to eat kill others to protect your beloved one?
Eat? No. Kill? Only in self defense, otherwise no.
soulelle said:
Is it OK to believe in God and be gay?
Sure, why not?
soulelle said:
Is it OK to break the mirror sacrifice yourself to save your precious one?
Potentially, but it depends on why.
soulelle said:
Is it OK to break the mirror come out of your closeted world and look at it from afar?
Potentially, again depends on why.
soulelle said:
Is it OK to break the mirror sacrifice your love by figuring out that it is one-sided and nobody's waiting behind the door.
No. If something as small as you figuring out that your love was one-sided is enough to cause you to give up your love, then one would have to question how strong your love was in the first place (and no this doesn't mean you get to be a stalker).
Feb 9, 2015 4:41 PM

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CookingPriest said:
So as thought the Invisible Storm represents the herd mentality of society perceiving Class-S relationships of homosexuality as "special friendship" that you grow out of, while actual bonafide homosexual love is harassed and bullied against.


The invisible storm is NOTHING to do with homophobia and this episode pretty much confirms it. Kureha was up for being the one excluded from the group long before there was any relationship between her and Sumika. Her 'crime' as observed by the group was not to ignore Sumika and instead help her, ie to 'stand out from the crowd'.
Feb 9, 2015 4:44 PM
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Okay, this just got very interesting. I'm glad that a little explanation has gotten me to like and understand this show a bit more because I really like where it's going. I'm pretty excited for what this show will bring to the table next week now that Kureha has accepted Ginko as her friend (although I wonder about Lulu, is she just gonna leave her out?). I'm also guessing Ginko's crime is letting Sumika die so she can pursue her love for Kureha. Man, I am amazed right now. I really am.
Feb 9, 2015 4:46 PM
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Finally it starts.
Feb 9, 2015 4:55 PM
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scruffykiwi said:
CookingPriest said:
So as thought the Invisible Storm represents the herd mentality of society perceiving Class-S relationships of homosexuality as "special friendship" that you grow out of, while actual bonafide homosexual love is harassed and bullied against.


The invisible storm is NOTHING to do with homophobia and this episode pretty much confirms it. Kureha was up for being the one excluded from the group long before there was any relationship between her and Sumika. Her 'crime' as observed by the group was not to ignore Sumika and instead help her, ie to 'stand out from the crowd'.


Also it should be noted that Kaoru said "she was just looking for a cheap hairpin, so why would anyone help her?"

Of course the hairpin was important to Sumika, since it was from her beloved grandmother, but to the girls of the "invisible storm" such sentiment is to be condemned, not encouraged. This points back to "love" being the enemy.
Feb 9, 2015 4:59 PM

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Good ep. I enjoyed that fairy tale. I wonder who they were referring to. The past makes more sense for Kureha's Mom but for the present it makes more sense for Ginko and Kureha. Well we are at the halfway point now so I can't wait to see where this all ends up now.

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Feb 9, 2015 5:03 PM

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@Takuan_Soho
I wasn't really asking for the answers. The answers are actually to look for in the show as provided by the director's vision. It's up to each person to respond to those in a way they believe is right for them.

And to comment on some of your answers...
Losing to lust for a homosexual contact, even if it's with a person you love and who's longing for the same, as a manifestation of love, is considered a deadly sin. At least in some religions.

How does killing somebody in order to save the life of your beloved one go against love?

If it's OK to kill only in self-defense, why is it also OK to kill your ownself for the sake of your beloved one? That's a contradiction. I know I said "kill others" rather than "killed your ownself", but I see no difference - a murder is still a murder, whether applied to another person or to one's own self.
Feb 9, 2015 5:04 PM

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It's been awhile since I loved a show so deeply.
Feb 9, 2015 5:08 PM

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Been a while Sumika. Looks like most of the girls bullied her.

And we know who that story relates to. Haha, even if the characters seem recognizable, I have no idea what's happening. Not that that's surprising.

Why is it always Kureha???

Stop it Harishima... making me fall for you every appearance you make despite how despicable you are :'(

Bear Flash, prettttty random xD

I bet that woman with Harishima is Sensei.

Shoot, Ginko looks in pretty bad shape.

An evil lily appears!!!

So the tables turn. Shabadadoo.

Creepy birthday.

Evil=Homosexuality? So then why do the girls who aren't bears still seem to be so? After all, it was claimed that men (disregarding the three bear dudes since they were designed at first to be women) don't exist in their world so nothing adds up. Time will tell I guess.

So valiant Ginko!! Wow, such a convenient letter.
More like homodachi *winkwonk*
Feb 9, 2015 5:14 PM

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scruffykiwi said:
CookingPriest said:
So as thought the Invisible Storm represents the herd mentality of society perceiving Class-S relationships of homosexuality as "special friendship" that you grow out of, while actual bonafide homosexual love is harassed and bullied against.


The invisible storm is NOTHING to do with homophobia and this episode pretty much confirms it. Kureha was up for being the one excluded from the group long before there was any relationship between her and Sumika. Her 'crime' as observed by the group was not to ignore Sumika and instead help her, ie to 'stand out from the crowd'.


So in short it was forming a relationship with Sumika.

Yes it is about homophobia, this episode proves it. THey suspected her as "gay" and they bullied her for that and for not backing down on her love and becoming invisible(dove/straight) You have a problem with that?
Feb 9, 2015 5:20 PM

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There's so many ways to interpret the mirror, but it's so ambiguous you don't know where to look just yet. I think it could be any or all of Fai, Takuan, and Tejin's interpretations. I like the idea of breaking the mirror relating to casting aside society's norms and perceptions of yourself, but more importantly your perception of yourself. Having a perception of yourself, or being aware of your own image, obviously leads to insecurity and conforming to the herd. Like Tejin said there's certain safety in conforming by being very conscientious of your image. So the only way to get the Promise Kiss is to throw your image-yourself away. You do get a sense of danger when thinking about facing yourself and breaking yourself in order to really live boldly as your truest self, and the scary possibilities that could come from it, which might help explain the "you might even lose your life" line.

This was an awesome episode, I feel like we're just scratching the surface of what this show is capable of making us think about.
Feb 9, 2015 5:25 PM

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Oct 2012
1917
In every previous week, several hours prior to the episode airing, there has
been a 3-page article appearing in Animate.TV, including several still images:

EP 01 - 2015/1/05 at 21:30
http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1420436267
EP 02 - 2015/1/11 at 14:00
http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1420726209
EP 03 - 2015/1/19 at 18:30
http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1421653736
EP 04 - 2015/1/26 at 20:00
http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1422265474
EP 05 - 2015/2/02 at 17:30
http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1422862997

But this time, the article was posted online exactly at exactly the same time
that the episode was aired on TokyoMX:
EP 06 - 2015/2/10 at 00:30
http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1423494896

- - - - - - -

In the past, the official website has always posted four still images from the
episode very shortly before the episode aired on TokyoMX. But this time, no
still images have been posted yet. Instead, there are just four empty grey
squares.

http://yurikuma.jp/story.html
Feb 9, 2015 5:30 PM

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Dec 2013
88
Feb 9, 2015 5:31 PM

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Jul 2007
23708
AlexTheRiot said:
There's so many ways to interpret the mirror, but it's so ambiguous you don't know where to look just yet. I think it could be any or all of Fai, Takuan, and Tejin's interpretations. I like the idea of breaking the mirror relating to casting aside society's norms and perceptions of yourself, but more importantly your perception of yourself. Having a perception of yourself, or being aware of your own image, obviously leads to insecurity and conforming to the herd. Like Tejin said there's certain safety in conforming by being very conscientious of your image. So the only way to get the Promise Kiss is to throw your image-yourself away. You do get a sense of danger when thinking about facing yourself and breaking yourself in order to really live boldly as your truest self, and the scary possibilities that could come from it, which might help explain the "you might even lose your life" line.

This was an awesome episode, I feel like we're just scratching the surface of what this show is capable of making us think about.


Agreed.
Mostly the danger comes from your world view shattering.
Your life IS lost. But in metaphorical sense, because being open to different things(be it sexual preferences, religion, etc) CHANGES your life and how you see it.
mwsmws22 said:


Yeah this is my line of thought mainly too and why I thinka lot of perception of the world is through Kureha.

Whatever happened to her mother, "Split" kureha's perception of the world in two polar opposites.
Feb 9, 2015 5:31 PM

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Sep 2013
613
CookingPriest said:

So in short it was forming a relationship with Sumika.

Yes it is about homophobia, this episode proves it. THey suspected her as "gay" and they bullied her for that and for not backing down on her love and becoming invisible(dove/straight) You have a problem with that?


Actually, as far as I can tell or at least my interpretation of it. The crimes that are committed that the Invisible Storm equates to evil would simply be standing out from the crowd. Having interests that are out of the norm. Such as being the one who loves anime in a school filled with jocks who look down on anime. Essentially, anyone who is not true to themselves is considered invisible because they are just 1 of the herd who does whatever they can to fit in. The evil ones are those who do not conform to societies norms and are true to their own personality. In this world, it's normal to not help a girl like Sumika find a simple hairpin but the fact that Kureha was so different from everyone and helped her find it made her evil to them.

If the Invisible Storm was against homosexuality then why is the leader of said group a lesbian? She doesn't show any signs of being afraid of her own group or even being ashamed in herself for being a lesbian so homophobia isn't what the invisible storm represents. Also, I am not even sure Kureha and Sumika were even in a relationship like that in the first place, they were simply true friends who liked each other for who they were instead of the invisible storm which is comprised of people who only like others for who they pretend to be.

Kureha doesn't pretend to be someone else to fit in with the crowd. She has her own personality and hobbies that make her different. The flowerbed being her "love" is her "hobby", something that makes her well... her. Thus she is evil to them because they don't have anything like that, all they have is what everyone else in the group has, thus they are invisible.
Feb 9, 2015 5:35 PM

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Jul 2007
23708
Keten said:
CookingPriest said:

So in short it was forming a relationship with Sumika.

Yes it is about homophobia, this episode proves it. THey suspected her as "gay" and they bullied her for that and for not backing down on her love and becoming invisible(dove/straight) You have a problem with that?


Actually, as far as I can tell or at least my interpretation of it. The crimes that are committed that the Invisible Storm equates to evil would simply be standing out from the crowd. Having interests that are out of the norm. Such as being the one who loves anime in a school filled with jocks who look down on anime. Essentially, anyone who is not true to themselves is considered invisible because they are just 1 of the herd who does whatever they can to fit in. The evil ones are those who do not conform to societies norms and are true to their own personality. In this world, it's normal to not help a girl like Sumika find a simple hairpin but the fact that Kureha was so different from everyone and helped her find it made her evil to them.

If the Invisible Storm was against homosexuality then why is the leader of said group a lesbian? She doesn't show any signs of being afraid of her own group or even being ashamed in herself for being a lesbian so homophobia isn't what the invisible storm represents. Also, I am not even sure Kureha and Sumika were even in a relationship like that in the first place, they were simply true friends who liked each other for who they were instead of the invisible storm which is comprised of people who only like others for who they pretend to be.

Kureha doesn't pretend to be someone else to fit in with the crowd. She has her own personality and hobbies that make her different. The flowerbed being her "love" is her "hobby", something that makes her well... her. Thus she is evil to them because they don't have anything like that, all they have is what everyone else in the group has, thus they are invisible.


Again, ClassS concept of "Special friends" and growing out of "experimenting phase" and becoming straight.

It has to do with japanese notion that lesbians are okay if it is young girls being intimate and then growing out(becoming invisible). Standing up for your preference results in harassment.

This harassment in this episode was specifically about breaking down Kureha and "showing her" that her love is worthless and superficial.

The leader's relationship is secret. Most likely with Teacher(clearly a bear too). Who is most likely using them to keep her preference secret too(and most likely killed Kureha's mother in fear of being outed, most likely the key being the story she was writing). Kureha then psychologically subconsciously used that tale to split her perception the world in two.
Feb 9, 2015 5:45 PM

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Oct 2012
1917
soulelle said:
Ikuhara-sensei, I love you so much! And even though it's VERY unlikely
that you're reading these words, please, let me whole-heartedly thank
you for your shows - your Promise Kisses. Many will hate and kick them
away. And we might not catch all the meanings. But one thing's for
sure, your works will stay with us forever!


He might not be on MAL. But you can just personally tweet him your message:
http://twitter.com/ikuni_noise

His fans tweet him all the time and he re-tweets quite a lot of the amateur
fan-art that they send him. He is incredibly devoted to his fans, compared
to any other director I have seen. A lot of the fan-art is awesome.
Feb 9, 2015 5:54 PM

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Sep 2013
613
CookingPriest said:

Again, ClassS concept of "Special friends" and growing out of "experimenting phase" and becoming straight.

It has to do with japanese notion that lesbians are okay if it is young girls being intimate and then growing out(becoming invisible). Standing up for your preference results in harassment.

This harassment in this episode was specifically about breaking down Kureha and "showing her" that her love is worthless and superficial.

The leader's relationship is secret. Most likely with Teacher(clearly a bear too). Who is most likely using them to keep her preference secret too(and most likely killed Kureha's mother in fear of being outed, most likely the key being the story she was writing). Kureha then psychologically subconsciously used that tale to split her perception the world in two.


Hmm... I can see your interpretation to an extent too. Though it leaves some things unanswered. If this had to do with "experimenting" then why did they label her as evil before she even stood up for herself? They started viewing her as evil the moment she helped Sumika find the hairpin. There was no relationship there yet but they still labeled her as evil. To me that is a clear sign that it isn't homophobia but simply a hatred of anyone who is different and true to themselves or perhaps jealousy that Kureha has her own identity while they are just more of the herd(Invisible).

My problem with the homophobia thing is that they don't portray the leader having any sort of negative feelings towards her own preferences. If she was truly against having homosexual relationships after growing out of it, wouldn't she look at herself as flawed, ugly and not really enjoy her experiences? She seemed pretty content with being a lesbian. Usually in the cases of someone being against homosexuality despite being a homosexual, they show signs of self hatred when doing the acts themselves.

Also, I don't think when they say, "Her love is worthless and superficial" they are talking about her love for Sumika. They are talking about Kureha's actual personality, her true self. She has stated several times in the series that her "love" was the flowerbed because that was something unique to her, something that she did. Sumika helping her take care of the flowerbed had them share the "love", she likes Kureha for who she is, the things that make her different from everyone else. What they were trying to do was destroy that bond, the true friendship. Destroying the flowerbed would do that. Why would they do this? Simple, because by helping Kureha with the flowerbed, that makes her different as well and they are jealous of that special bond they share between true friends.
KetenFeb 9, 2015 5:58 PM
Feb 9, 2015 6:30 PM
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Oct 2012
6648
soulelle said:
Losing to lust for a homosexual contact, even if it's with a person you love and who's longing for the same, as a manifestation of love, is considered a deadly sin. At least in some religions.


The idea behind "deadly sins" is that these sins are the root of all evil conduct - lust causes one to kill, sloth causes one to steal, and so forth: they in short are the cause, not the effect. For religions that condemn homosexuality, it is not a "deadly sin" because it is not a cause rather it is an effect (which just makes it a sin). This is why "killing" is a sin, but not a "deadly sin".

A sidebar to this discussion is that those religions that will kill homosexuals will just as easily kill people for committing adultery.

soulelle said:
How does killing somebody in order to save the life of your beloved one go against love?


Let us define "kill" so that we are talking about the same thing. Letting someone else die in order to save your loved one is not "killing" the other person. Do you agree? If your beloved and a third person are on a sinking boat, and you can only save one of them, whoever ends up dying was not "killed" by you, they were killed by the situation. There is a difference between being actively involved in something and being passively involved in something.

Now above I specifically said that self defense was okay, so this narrows the question down to a situation where an innocent person somehow is going to kill your beloved and killing them is the only way to stop them. The question is whether that is moral, correct?

The answer is no. One cannot proactively take an innocent person's life for the sake of there beloved. This is pretty clear in all religions and in all ethics.

soulelle said:
If it's OK to kill only in self-defense, why is it also OK to kill your ownself for the sake of your beloved one?


It's not okay. To "kill oneself" means to commit suicide. I think what you meant to say is way is it okay to sacrifice yourself in order to save your beloved?

Now, if the situation is such that you can either save yourself or your beloved, choosing your beloved would show that you are thinking about their happiness, which is an expression of love. The solider willing to die to protect the homefront is exhibiting love as well. The man who jumps into a freezing river to attempt to rescue a stranger is also showing love (for humanity in general or for his society as a whole).

But the other has to be in a life or death situation, to sacrifice oneself for anything less calls increasingly into question whether the lover is truly thinking about the beloved or the self (or to the point the negation of the self).
Feb 9, 2015 6:58 PM
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23
My problem with the homophobia thing is that they don't portray the leader having any sort of negative feelings towards her own preferences. If she was truly against having homosexual relationships after growing out of it, wouldn't she look at herself as flawed, ugly and not really enjoy her experiences? She seemed pretty content with being a lesbian. Usually in the cases of someone being against homosexuality despite being a homosexual, they show signs of self hatred when doing the acts themselves.


Homophobia is complex. I think you're just looking at it from 'black' and 'white' point of view. There are gay people with internalized homophobia. Gay people were taught and told many times that heterosexuality is the only right way, and their love is sinful. Not all of them buy into that, but some feel ashamed, some experience mental distress, etc. There are some who deny their sexual orientation, try to confirm to society. They even go as far to discriminate against other gays and want gays purged (except themselves). Not too long ago, people found out several homophobic politicians have gay lovers.

Karol is that type of person. She dresses differently compared to others, but she's so eager to join the Invisible Storm and conform to the majority. And she has some kind of intimacy with another girl in a secluded room. I believe nobody in the school really thinks she's gay since she's so against it.
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