So...
| Don't you think lately people in fandom have become more impressionable and more enamored with new shows than before? Maybe I'm just being fooled by too much experience, or fandom has seen an increase in newcomers, but more and more I've noticed that any show that's good enough is getting such a high response, like it's the first anime of its kind people have ever seen. What do you think of it? Is there such a trend? And if so, how would you explain it? Do you like it or not? |
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| As far as I can tell, people have always been easily impressionable. There were newcomers who just discovered SAO and K-On back then who had the exact same reaction than today's newcomers discovering CSM and Bocchi the Rock. If anything, I wish to be that easily impressionable again when everything was a potential 10/10. |
KryzakamiHrybami said: As far as I can tell, people have always been easily impressionable. There were newcomers who just discovered SAO and K-On back then who had the exact same reaction than today's newcomers discovering CSM and Bocchi the Rock. If anything, I wish to be that easily impressionable again when everything was a potential 10/10. Do you think that such high ratings and praise for Bocchi mostly come from newcomers, and not because it really is the best CGDCT in recent times? |
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| Zoomers. It's definitely zoomers. Too many 12yos going skull emoji in the comments lmao. Idk if we need gatekeeping back, but surely the amount of kiddos is to blame. Also to be fair, it's today's kiddos. Kiddos 10 years ago were totally different. Damn zoomers lol! edit: looks like i'm bl lmao |
FullyChargedDec 11, 2022 7:17 PM
| bruh |
RobertBobert said: KryzakamiHrybami said: As far as I can tell, people have always been easily impressionable. There were newcomers who just discovered SAO and K-On back then who had the exact same reaction than today's newcomers discovering CSM and Bocchi the Rock. If anything, I wish to be that easily impressionable again when everything was a potential 10/10. Do you think that such high ratings and praise for Bocchi mostly come from newcomers, and not because it really is the best CGDCT in recent times? Yes. It's yet just another CGDCT like I've seen before. The 10's was full of them and they weren't worse than Bocchi. |
KryzakamiHrybami said: RobertBobert said: Do you think that such high ratings and praise for Bocchi mostly come from newcomers, and not because it really is the best CGDCT in recent times? Yes. It's yet just another CGDCT like I've seen before. The 10's was full of them and they weren't worse than Bocchi. And do you think that the current CM hype is of the same nature? |
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KryzakamiHrybami said: RobertBobert said: Do you think that such high ratings and praise for Bocchi mostly come from newcomers, and not because it really is the best CGDCT in recent times? Yes. It's yet just another CGDCT like I've seen before. The 10's was full of them and they weren't worse than Bocchi. Would you be willing to recommend me some anime similar to Bocchi then? I'd like to watch more shows that horse around with its own form, always changing the character design, art style, using different animation technics, an anime with live action inserts, stop motion, with creative directing, etc... If the 10s was so full of these kinds of anime, I'd like to know more, please. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| I wasn't here 10 years ago, I'll just have a look at the numbers. N° of anime that started airing that year or the year before in MAL top 50: 2022) 14 2012) 15 |
Nirinbo said: I wasn't here 10 years ago, I'll just have a look at the numbers. N° of anime that started airing that year or the year before in MAL top 50: 2022) 14 2012) 15 What do you want to say? What number hasn't changed? Or that as many shows were added to the TOP this year as were added from 2012 in 10 years? |
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| There's always been a recency bias. But anime is more popular than ever, thus there are indeed a lot of newcomers who lack comparison points. Also animation has never been this good even for unpopular shows (if you forget about those shitty CGI's and seasons who suffered from the covid situation) so anime are more impressive. But overall, let people enjoy their shows and enjoy yours. |
RobertBobert said: Nirinbo said: I wasn't here 10 years ago, I'll just have a look at the numbers. N° of anime that started airing that year or the year before in MAL top 50: 2022) 14 2012) 15 What do you want to say? What number hasn't changed? Or that as many shows were added to the TOP this year as were added from 2012 in 10 years? I mean that at the moment there are 14 anime that started airing in 2021-2022 in MAL top 50, but 10 years ago there were 15 anime that started airing in 2011-2012 in MAL top 50. Not much difference in terms of recency bias. |
Nirinbo said: RobertBobert said: What do you want to say? What number hasn't changed? Or that as many shows were added to the TOP this year as were added from 2012 in 10 years? I mean that at the moment there are 14 anime that started airing in 2021-2022 in MAL top 50, but 10 years ago there were 15 anime that started airing in 2011-2012 in MAL top 50. Not much difference in terms of recency bias. But there's a difference between checking a 2022 show in 2022 and checking a 2012 show in 2022 instead of 2012, don't you think? I fell into the same trap when I looked up my movie stats on a local movie site. At some point, I realized that it does not show how many films I watched in a given year, but how many I added, not necessarily in the same year. TheMechaManiac said: RobertBobert said: Don't you think lately people in fandom have become more impressionable and more enamored with new shows than before? Maybe I'm just being fooled by too much experience, or fandom has seen an increase in newcomers, but more and more I've noticed that any show that's good enough is getting such a high response, like it's the first anime of its kind people have ever seen. What do you think of it? Is there such a trend? And if so, how would you explain it? Do you like it or not? I'd say it's social media that's to blame. Twitter in particular is a huge hub of highly impressionable people, particularly teenagers and college-age students. Instagram and Tiktok too. The rest comes from anime youtubers who're paid to shill the latest seasonal animu and blow up hype with clickbait titles like THIS IS GOING TO BE LE BESTEST ANIMU EVAR!!!. That is, you think that now the popularity of the show is determined not so much by pure interest, but by hype from opinion leaders? |
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| There's always going to be recency bias, for example if you use Wayback machine to look at the older ratings on this site, most top rated shows are shows that aired fairly recently. It's not like popular big things don't always exist, it's just that more shows are being made today, than back in the day. Edit* Kidou Senkan Nadesico used to be considered the best thing ever made in Japan, yet you'd hardly find anyone who has heard of it today, it's not like all popular shows don't have their time. Even the Haruhi fever of the 2000's seems ridiculous to some anime fans today, of course most new people are going to like new things more. Although admittedly watching quite a bit older anime was quite difficult in the 2000's. |
KumiveneellaNov 24, 2022 12:22 PM
TheMechaManiac said: RobertBobert said: That is, you think that now the popularity of the show is determined not so much by pure interest, but by hype from opinion leaders? Pretty much. I feel these days people are way too prone to caving to the popular opinion. And what shows do you think would be at the top if we only focused on pure interest? Or is it already impossible to assess impartially? |
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TheMechaManiac said: RobertBobert said: And what shows do you think would be at the top if we only focused on pure interest? Or is it already impossible to assess impartially? It's practically impossible to assess ratings in an impartial manner already. My honest to god approach is: never care about an aggregate rating, it just means one show is more popular than the other. It's not that I'm worried, it's just that I'm a bit unaccustomed to seeing pretty good ones, but no more shows get this kind of hype. Although it would be difficult for me to impartially talk about the reasons for the original popularity of shows like K-ON! or Code Geass. |
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Phosphophyllita said: KryzakamiHrybami said: Yes. It's yet just another CGDCT like I've seen before. The 10's was full of them and they weren't worse than Bocchi. Would you be willing to recommend me some anime similar to Bocchi then? I'd like to watch more shows that horse around with its own form, always changing the character design, art style, using different animation technics, an anime with live action inserts, stop motion, with creative directing, etc... If the 10s was so full of these kinds of anime, I'd like to know more, please. What do you want exactly? CGDCT or just anything with creative visuals? |
KryzakamiHrybami said: Phosphophyllita said: Would you be willing to recommend me some anime similar to Bocchi then? I'd like to watch more shows that horse around with its own form, always changing the character design, art style, using different animation technics, an anime with live action inserts, stop motion, with creative directing, etc... If the 10s was so full of these kinds of anime, I'd like to know more, please. What do you want exactly? CGDCT or just anything with creative visuals? Can it be both? I'd like something similar to Bocchi. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| It's not just anime, zoomers overhype literally everything they can grab. It's not like we never hyped stuff back then and it's not like all of it turned out to be good but holy shit zoomers get excited over EVERYTHING and it's fucking annoying. I don't remember people saying this is the best anime or best season of all time back then but for zoomers EVERY season is the best of all time even tho it's completely garbage compared to earlier seasons. This isn't just about being young because I also had crap taste when I was young but at least I had the decency to not annoy everyone with my shit. |
TheMechaManiac said: RobertBobert said: It's not that I'm worried, it's just that I'm a bit unaccustomed to seeing pretty good ones, but no more shows get this kind of hype. Although it would be difficult for me to impartially talk about the reasons for the original popularity of shows like K-ON! or Code Geass. Code Geass is pretty easy, it was a big meme around the time it aired thanks to the abuse of plot twists and trying to jam as many anime cliches into one show as humanly possible. As for K-On, yeah that one would be difficult too. "Pretty good" anime depends on a person's personal taste. De gustibus non est disputandum. You reminded me of one Russian essay about the Okouchi phenomenon, where one of the main claims was the abuse of cliffhangers and memetic twists to cover up a fairly ordinary anime plots. But personally, I remember the show more for the number of teenagers who made Lilush something like the voice of the generation, which, in the most edgy style, staged a revolution against adults. I still remember how my butt was on fire in the late 00s when I read how people justified his crimes. Speaking wutg adjusting an imaginary monocle, for me a good show is a show that leaves a strong emotional response and after watching which you feel like you stepped out of the cinema. |
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ateks said: It's not just anime, zoomers overhype literally everything they can grab. It's not like we never hyped stuff back then and it's not like all of it turned out to be good but holy shit zoomers get excited over EVERYTHING and it's fucking annoying. I don't remember people saying this is the best anime or best season of all time back then but for zoomers EVERY season is the best of all time even tho it's completely garbage compared to earlier seasons. This isn't just about being young because I also had crap taste when I was young but at least I had the decency to not annoy everyone with my shit. Are you saying that the incredible popularity of modern idol franchises and the phenomenon of anime being made popular by memes is also due to zoomers? |
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I looked through your list. As a CGDCT, I found Gochuumon wa usagi desu ka? and Shirobako much better. There's also Non Non Biyori, but it's closer to Yuru Camp than Bocchi. Oh the other hand if you want creative visuals you can try Flip Flappers. There are more in different genre, but that's what can be easily comparable to Bocchi from what you said. |
KryzakamiHrybami said: I looked through your list. As a CGDCT, I found Gochuumon wa usagi desu ka? and Shirobako much better. There's also Non Non Biyori, but it's closer to Yuru Camp than Bocchi. Oh the other hand if you want creative visuals you can try Flip Flappers. There are more in different genre, but that's what can be easily comparable to Bocchi from what you said. Thanks a lot, I'm gonna check them out. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
RobertBobert said: Nirinbo said: I mean that at the moment there are 14 anime that started airing in 2021-2022 in MAL top 50, but 10 years ago there were 15 anime that started airing in 2011-2012 in MAL top 50. Not much difference in terms of recency bias. But there's a difference between checking a 2022 show in 2022 and checking a 2012 show in 2022 instead of 2012, don't you think? I fell into the same trap when I looked up my movie stats on a local movie site. At some point, I realized that it does not show how many films I watched in a given year, but how many I added, not necessarily in the same year. You got it wrong, I did check the old MAL top 50 with wayback machine when I was talking about 2011-2012. |
Nirinbo said: RobertBobert said: But there's a difference between checking a 2022 show in 2022 and checking a 2012 show in 2022 instead of 2012, don't you think? I fell into the same trap when I looked up my movie stats on a local movie site. At some point, I realized that it does not show how many films I watched in a given year, but how many I added, not necessarily in the same year. You got it wrong, I did check the old MAL top 50 with wayback machine when I was talking about 2011-2012. Okay, thanks for the clarification. And what percentage of those shows aren't sequels or remakes of established brands or franchises? |
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RobertBobert said: Nirinbo said: You got it wrong, I did check the old MAL top 50 with wayback machine when I was talking about 2011-2012. Okay, thanks for the clarification. And what percentage of those shows aren't sequels or remakes of established brands or franchises? More or less the same: 6 in 2022, 8 in 2012. |
| Idk man, I don't go into fandoms of any other titles tbh, I am only sitting in Bleach Fandom discussin about manga spoilers in some places like Flame of Rebirth's Discord recently, or forums, with sharing expectations for the incoming episodes/before with predictions for Hell Arc/predictions of Og Gotei 13 etc. So nothing has changed with the fact that when there are newcomers it is usually guiding them into what to watch, what to avoid, what is canon what isn't, explaining something if they didn't understand etc. etc. Outside that I barely went into any other fandoms, or I just don't remember it. I was a little bit hanging for AoT manga fandom when it was coming out weekly aswell as for SAOA:GGO. |
| Yeah, it's pretty awesome! Maybe anime is just more accessible with popular streaming services like Netflix? People I know who aren't super super into anime have even seen shows like Great Pretender or Saiki K bc they're offered on Netflix |
| desu desu binches |
| Zoomers at fault they barely check already existing similar anime because to them "outdated animation and slow paced", Zoomers want pretty colors and fast paced, hence easy to impress on new shows, going nuts to "best episode, best anime ever made!". Atleast Boomers check new shows even though they might not enjoy most them. |
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Monkiesmata said: Nirinbo said: i mean ratings vary on all platforms on mal that could be the case but on another platform only like 7 anime airing in 2021-2022 could be in the top 50I mean that at the moment there are 14 anime that started airing in 2021-2022 in MAL top 50, but 10 years ago there were 15 anime that started airing in 2011-2012 in MAL top 50. Not much difference in terms of recency bias. Anime-Planet 2022) 15 Anime-Planet 2014) 13 MAL 2014) 14 I expect similar results on other competitors, aside from maybe Japanese sites. |
| I voted: Bonus option 02: Boomers just forgot how to enjoy new shows. I myself am a millennial and am aware how fans were overexcited, during the mid to late 2000s. So what you are witnessing at the moment is similar to what happened then. Fans as old as me are either conflicted about whether it's good or not. Both the new anime and this young fandom. But as long as they don't complain about how inappropriate some anime can be, we won't have to chastise them. Is my thinking. |
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| i don't think its about people being impressionable, but more like having extreme opinions. a show is seen as either the greatest or extremely bad. sometimes it seems as if some people want to assert their individuality simply by opposing everyone else's opinions. its a good thing that the numerical value was retired from the reviews, because you could always see dumb people giving a extremely low value to shows that had a high average score (and viceversa). |
Nirinbo said: RobertBobert said: Okay, thanks for the clarification. And what percentage of those shows aren't sequels or remakes of established brands or franchises? More or less the same: 6 in 2022, 8 in 2012. Are there fewer non-sequels and remakes this year than 10 years ago? joaquinns said: i don't think its about people being impressionable, but more like having extreme opinions. a show is seen as either the greatest or extremely bad. sometimes it seems as if some people want to assert their individuality simply by opposing everyone else's opinions. its a good thing that the numerical value was retired from the reviews, because you could always see dumb people giving a extremely low value to shows that had a high average score (and viceversa). Huh, have you heard the joke that if a show gets popular enough, it starts to have haters who just hate it in public to seem like people whose opinions are unsupported by the crowd? |
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RobertBobert said: That's because it often is the first anime of its kind people have seen. While this is partly to due with the actual uniqueness of the shows that get popular, it is much more to do with the fact that a lot of anime fans are fairly new, and/or haven't seen much. While there are many more new anime fans nowdays, there have always been new anime fans, and they've probably always thought like that. We jsut accept that they're new and excited about everything, and not berate them for being in their "everything is amazing" period. After all, I'm sure a lot of us remember what that period was like and how enjoyable it was.any show that's good enough is getting such a high response, like it's the first anime of its kind people have ever seen. Then again, people can have a difference of taste with anime fans from any time, and once you start confidently expressing your opinion on the internet with reasons for it, it's fair game for people to disagree with you and explain why. I don't think people should have to hold off on expressing their dislike for something just because other people like it, and I especially don't think they can't disagree and explain their reasoning to someone who publilcly expressed their opinion. That's ridiculous. I think it's fine to say that you like something because of your own taste and who you are, but if you start acting like the thing you like is objectively the best, it's reasonable to expect disagreement. Also, it's a bit mean, but here's a strawman that I thought fit here. It's from the Asterisk War Sucks.  |
FrosteekNov 25, 2022 12:29 AM
Frosteek said: RobertBobert said: That's because it often is the first anime of its kind people have seen. While this is partly to due with the actual uniqueness of the shows that get popular, it is much more to do with the fact that a lot of anime fans are fairly new, and/or haven't seen much. While there are many more new anime fans nowdays, there have always been new anime fans, and they've probably always thought like that. We jsut accept that they're new and excited about everything, and not berate them for being in their "everything is amazing" period. After all, I'm sure a lot of us remember what that period was like and how enjoyable it was.any show that's good enough is getting such a high response, like it's the first anime of its kind people have ever seen. Then again, people can have a difference of taste with anime fans from any time, and once you start confidently expressing your opinion on the internet with reasons for it, it's fair game for people to disagree with you and explain why. I don't think people should have to hold off on expressing their dislike for something just because other people like it, and I especially don't think they can't disagree and explain their reasoning to someone who publilcly expressed their opinion. That's ridiculous. Also, it's a bit mean, but here's a strawman that I thought fit here. It's from the Asterisk War Sucks. Why do you perceive the idea of this thread as an accusation of someone? |
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RobertBobert said: On a second look, you're right. I tried to respond to the thread, but I was thinking about something else, and ended up getting sidetracked in my response. It ended up being sloppily written and thought out. Sorry 'bout that. I'll delete it if you delete your quote of it.Why do you perceive the idea of this thread as an accusation of someone? |
Frosteek said: RobertBobert said: On a second look, you're right. I tried to respond to the thread, but I was thinking about something else, and ended up getting sidetracked in my response. It ended up being sloppily written and thought out. Sorry 'bout that. I'll delete it if you delete your quote of it.Why do you perceive the idea of this thread as an accusation of someone? I'm not asking you to delete this, it just looked like I was trying to reproach people for something from your answer. Perhaps I could blame people for overreacting to certain shows, but that would be too subjective. |
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| It’s been like this for a while lol. I remember everyone going buck wild back when Angel Beats was airing. People just like talking about what’s new, water cooler talk discussing the latest tv shows has been around for decades. |
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Monochrosanity said: It’s been like this for a while lol. I remember everyone going buck wild back when Angel Beats was airing. People just like talking about what’s new, water cooler talk discussing the latest tv shows has been around for decades. By the way, I have not seen people discuss this show for a long time. Though it has been considered "one of the best anime ever" in the past. |
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RobertBobert said: Are there fewer non-sequels and remakes this year than 10 years ago? If you're talking about recent anime in MAL top 50 yes, as I said before. If you mean among every anime in MAL top 50, also yes (17 non-sequels and non-remakes in 2022, 28 in 2012). |
Nirinbo said: RobertBobert said: Are there fewer non-sequels and remakes this year than 10 years ago? If you're talking about recent anime in MAL top 50 yes, as I said before. If you mean among every anime in MAL top 50, also yes (17 non-sequels and non-remakes in 2022, 28 in 2012). So, are you saying that there are more sequels and other developments of existing franchises coming out in 2022 than in previous years? |
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RobertBobert said: Nirinbo said: If you're talking about recent anime in MAL top 50 yes, as I said before. If you mean among every anime in MAL top 50, also yes (17 non-sequels and non-remakes in 2022, 28 in 2012). So, are you saying that there are more sequels and other developments of existing franchises coming out in 2022 than in previous years? No, my only conclusion is that the % of recent anime in MAL top 50 (= recency bias) didn't change much compared to 10 years ago. |
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