Why mappa's critics usually being denial when mappa studio delivers a good quality?

DrkSeid69 said:
Like

"It was made by freelancers!"

"the teaser is pre-animated! the trailer is pre animated! the eps 1 preview is pre animated"

etc.

and they're going ape shit when they a 1 second of CGI or something that they consider bad.

Apolygon2 said:



honestly? it's pretty much mappa's fault for what they did with AOT.

since they did it once with the most hype show, people are rightfully worried that they may be doing it again.

but honestly?

I don't think they will. no sane studio would do something like that without being on a time crunch. and no sane studio would do that while making more than 1 trailer.

IdeZ233 said:

how was it their fault???

TheLastCrusaders said:
There will always be people who like hating popular shows. You can get a lot of reactions and it's fun for them. That's also why smaller shows, if they are good, don't really have haters. It's no fun to hate on them because you get barely any reaction. Just ignore those people and enjoy the show.

Ijustwannawtch01 said:
The internet made dumb people louder.

Apolygon2 said:



studio makes hype trailer with top tier animation.

it turns out it was pre animated and the actual thing looks way worse.

same studio makes hype trailer with top tier animation.

and obviously, this time some people are not trusting it.

Atanpenguin said:

Can’t wait for your apology thread when the show comes out

Aryan264 said:

what happened with aot was because of the lack of time they had to pump a season in a short period of time so obviously they had to cut corners but I did not mind it in any way

Aryan264 said:

the internet was a mistake

Apolygon2 said:


Which is why I said I don't think this time it will be the case.

but no I did think season 4 was a huge downgrade compared to what wit was doing.

some of the cgi looked decent, but some of them looked terrible. specially the beast titan. and they were close up shots. say what you want about the 3d colossal titan, but they animated it in 2d when the scene was important (check the scene were they take him down)

It had 0 sakuga moments, and the art style change was just a bad move. isayama was never famous for his art. wit had improved his work, undoing their improvement was just a dumb move. the soundtrack also got worse. I mean it was still fantastic, but it' wasn't on par with s1-3 and s4 was the only season that has had no new insert songs.

deg said:
well corporations are never your friend so never go brand loyalty, the closest thing you can praise when it comes to anime studios is KyoAni only

the thing with MAPPA is they take high profile anime projects in order to attract talented freelancers that are huge fan of the source material they are adapting anyway

Apolygon2 said:



honestly? it's pretty much mappa's fault for what they did with AOT.

since they did it once with the most hype show, people are rightfully worried that they may be doing it again.

but honestly?

I don't think they will. no sane studio would do something like that without being on a time crunch. and no sane studio would do that while making more than 1 trailer.

Spoopy69 said:

ufotable too, they (like kyoani) rely more on inhouse staff and only get a small number of freelancers (usually under 5 just key animators)

Aryan264 said:

why do people think so much about the intricacies of the show and not just enjoy for what it is. It was hype af and I enjoyed it very much and I will stand for it

Spoopy69 said:

it wasn't mappa's fault for aot they had less than 9 months to create the first 16 ep of season 4 from scratch while anime seasons like that usually take 2 years. so the fact we even got a watchable product is what we shoudl give them credit for. S4 part 2, same story. 1 year for creating it from scratch except they had character designs this time so they had a bit more time and its amazing how they still made it look high-profile

Apolygon2 said:


the production being not great was the producers fault true and absolutely.

but releasing a trailer that lied about what the show was, was all mappa. and that's what I was talking about.

Apolygon2 said:


the production being not great was the producers fault true and absolutely.

but releasing a trailer that lied about what the show was, was all mappa. and that's what I was talking about.

tykazeszmimyslec said:


"It was made by freelancers!"

"the teaser is pre-animated! the trailer is pre animated! the eps 1 preview is pre animated"

etc.

and they're going ape shit when they a 1 second of CGI or something that they consider bad.

tykazeszmimyslec said:
First of all, no you wouldn't enjoy Aot more if it was still with Wit, because Arifumi Imai (the action animation director and main action key animator) left the production before it shifted to Mappa, and Wit is a much smaller studio compared to Mappa, and they don't have much of a quality control, they entrust pretty much everything on the freelancers, and outsource pretty much everything to different studios (which Mappa does aswell, but not as much as Wit, and they have a very strict quality control, and one of the best producers in the industry, that's why Aot s4 is still watchable, or I should say still good, because it is in Mappa, if it was with any other studio it wouldn't look nearly as good). For example Vinland Saga was made entirely by freelancers, not a single Wit employee worked on it, and even now the first episode of Spy x Family Part 2, almost the entire episode was outsourced to studio Colorido, the compositing was done by Cloverworks and Asahi, the background art was done by studio Makaria and Mappa, and the entire ED was made at studio CLAP, Wit didn't even work on the episode, and it's a thing they do all the time, if they were still in charge of Aot without Arifumi Imai on board, it would just be a Madbox CG fest, which you can see how that looks on Overlord, which the CGI is made by the same studio Wit uses for all of their shows.

Also no, releasing only one trailer was not Mappa's fault, the marketing and everything involving the anime is done by the committee, in this case being Kodansha and Pony Canyon (that's why you can't see the trailer on Mappa's channe), and it was the committees decision to call it ''Final Season'', it was their decision to release only one trailer, which was not only pre-animated, but also made by a completely different team than the one who was working on the actual show.

What Mappa did accomplish with Aot though, is season 4 is the only season faithful to the manga, Wit used to change not only the story, but also the entire characters, and they gave fans of the series a good product, which normally would not be possible in these circumstances, and for all of that the only thing they got is hate and death threads sent to the animators who had nothing to do with corporate decisions, and they still managed to improve the quality for Part 2, mostly because they had more time and they made CGI in house for Part 2, which was outsourced to Arect and V-sign in Part 1.

Whybrowhy said:



They never lied about anything,they told that the trailer was pre-animated from the start.

Edit: Btw only thing 'better' in the pre-animated pv was hand drawn titans,everything else was better in the actual anime -better photography and compositing,better colors, actual animation instead of slideshow,better storyboards and so on

I can only see someone thinking that the pv was better if they just enjoy a slideshow of the 'coloured manga' more for some reason.

MadanielFL said:
When will all these normies watch real Mappa anime like Idaten Deities??

Apolygon2 said:


Which is why I said I don't think this time it will be the case.

but no I did think season 4 was a huge downgrade compared to what wit was doing.

some of the cgi looked decent, but some of them looked terrible. specially the beast titan. and they were close up shots. say what you want about the 3d colossal titan, but they animated it in 2d when the scene was important (check the scene were they take him down)

It had 0 sakuga moments, and the art style change was just a bad move. isayama was never famous for his art. wit had improved his work, undoing their improvement was just a dumb move. the soundtrack also got worse. I mean it was still fantastic, but it' wasn't on par with s1-3 and s4 was the only season that has had no new insert songs.

tykazeszmimyslec said:


I don't know how Wit could make anything look solid, when they aren't even working on most of their shows, every time Wit announces new anime, you can't even tell which studio is gonna be responsible for the show, because they not only outsource everything, they a lot of the times outsource even the entire episodes. There was more people from Mappa working on the 13th episode of Spy x Family than from Wit.

''you say mappa wasn't behind the marketing? fine, but that doesn't change the fact that their name was on the product''
What does that have to do with anything? People who say stuff like this just don't understand how anime production works. If someone blames a studio for something that was out of their control, then they're just dumb. The Promised Neverland season 2 was a disaster, and Horimiya adapted 120+ chapters in 12 episodes, does that mean Cloverworks is a bad studio and it's their fault for how the series turned out? Of course not, it was Aniplex's fault, and if the anime was made at A-1 Pictures or any other studio, you would get the same result, because studios don't own anime, the anime's are own by production committees.

''if they and no other studio took aot, wit may have actually got extra time to make it great looking.''
Tell that to One Punch Man and Seven Deadly Sins. Also no, Wit were the ones who dropped it, they weren't forced to drop it, but they did. The production doesn't revolve around them, if the committee wanted the anime to air by the end of 2020, they either had to do it in that time or drop it, and they knew it was impossible for them to make the anime, because Arifumi Imai and most of the staff left the production of Aot to work on different anime, so they dropped it, and if Mappa didn't take it, someone else would. And before you say this stupid shit along the lines of ''Mappa was the only studio who wanted to take Aot under these terrible working conditions'' is just false, Mappa was the only BIG studio that considered doing it, but if Mappa didn't take it, they would've just go down the ladder to smaller studios, and they would find someone who would do it, like they did with OPM and SDS.

''wit had improved his style and designs''
Yes ''Wit'' or rather Asano Kouji improved the designs, but after the time skip Isayama's art improves drastically, and it at least to me looks better than s1-3, so I and many others liked the character designs change, especially because Part 1 didn't have much action sakuga, so they went with more detailed character designs, and I prefered that.

''the changes to the story were also little to none, so I really don't think it mattered when it was wit with.''
If you say this then you haven't read the manga, they changed almost the entire structure of season 1, they changed Mikasa's entire character, they changed, censored or added stuff that are not in the manga (example Berserk Eren, which people thought is a plot hole that Eren doesn't use that power after season 1), and a lot of the stuff they changed was very important to the story, and they also have changed the entire Uprising Arc.

''would it have really been so hard to end p1 after ep 8. make the rest into part 2 but end it at the rumbling?
like let's be honest, these aren't parts, they are straight up seasons, that are each a year apart from their last part. but they are structured, as if all of s4 is just 1 thing. which it should have been, but it clearly isn't.''
All of this is again Pony Canyon's and Kodansha's fault, the studio doesn't decide the number of episodes a series will have, the committee does.


''also the director probably left because wit let go of aot.
he worked on bubble, so it's not like he was planning to never work with wit again''
I wasn't talking about the director leaving, which was Tetsuro Araki, I was talking about the action director leaving, which was Arifumi Imai, if you don't know he made the Levi vs Kenny and Levi vs Beast titan cuts, and many more, he was also responsible for supervising action sequences, and he left the production way before it shifted to Mappa.

Apolygon2 said:


"They never lied about anything,they told that the trailer was pre-animated from the start."

well that's news to me.


also what are you on about. all the still shots of the trailer are just characters looking at something to show their design.

every single of the shots that has something actually happening in it is both well animated and well shot.

also, story boards? you're kidding me?

you do realize how stupid it is to say the show has better story board than the trailer? like do I really need to explain why that is extremely stupid.

better colors?

BETTER COLORS? are you messing with me.

let's ignore the fact that you even noticed something like that when even if I were to believe you that the colour pallet is different it is undeniably close to the actual anime. what I want to is how in the hell can you say the colours were better, when the difference between them is so small? if that's not the most subjective and none impactful possible change idk what is.

AryaYegear said:

tbh mappas cgi is way good than wit. also if nappa wouldn't have done s4 there would be none either. its all thanks to kodansha. But they gave like 16 episodes within 7 or 8 months if I remember correct
so im really grateful they did. Also the sound track "Ashes on fire" was really a banger. I guess its the most popular aot ost(I don't know acurately)

I understand their lack in quality. But its not that worse. I enjoy it well

Whybrowhy said:



"That's news to me"
Good,now that you know the truth,hopefully you will stop with your whining with the "they lied and misled us"

The same "the characters looking at something" are actually have movement in the anime,and are not just the panning shots of the manga panel with colors
So yes since you said that pv is better than the anime then I'm going to point that out

"every single of the shots that has something actually happening in it is both well animated and well shot."
Perhaps you don't remember the scenes in the pv very well , like the soldiers are actually running and instead we have literally a still frame (ig the characters are just looking at something and they are just showing their designs,right?)
Do you want me to remind you everything, shot by shot from the pv and compare them with the anime?


"you do realize how stupid it is to say the show has better story board than the trailer? like do I really need to explain why that is extremely stupid."
Yes,I'm dumb , please explain it to me


"Colors are same as the actual anime"
Sure
(Btw,This moment as well,in the anime the people in the backgrounds were moving while in the pv it is just a panning still shot )

AryaYegear said:

tbh mappas cgi is way good than wit. also if nappa wouldn't have done s4 there would be none either. its all thanks to kodansha. But they gave like 16 episodes within 7 or 8 months if I remember correct
so im really grateful they did. Also the sound track "Ashes on fire" was really a banger. I guess its the most popular aot ost(I don't know acurately)

I understand their lack in quality. But its not that worse. I enjoy it well

RedLychee said:

If mappa didn't do s4 then it wouldn't happen is such a dumb argument, you are trying to tell me that a anime production company trying to make money wouldn't make a 4th season of one of the most popular anime in the world just because no one wanted to work with their deadline? of course not of course they would change their deadline if it meant money for them.

tykazeszmimyslec said:


You have no idea what you're talking about, that's why you think what you think is right, because you're misinformed, all of the things you got wrong:

''that's the thing though. it doesn't matter if they outsourced it. the anime they make is under the name wit, and ALL of them look amazing''

I agree that outsourcing doesn't matter, but if a studio is notorious for it, then you're just coinflipping which studio is gonna be responsible for the anime, because even if Wit's name is attached to the production, they could not be working on it at all, example being Vinland Saga, and they're also notorious for dropping their anime, they haven't finished a single show that is longer than 1 season, and if Wit takes the anime, then you WILL have designs change and quality change for other seasons, so for the sake of consistency I just hate when Wit gets their hands on the anime, because they don't finish any of their projects, I would rather a good production quality that is consistent throughout all seasons, than to get 1 season of great action sakuga, and usually mediocre animation outside of action, which Wit does all the time, and they only spend their resources on action sequences, which other studios can do aswell.


"What does that have to do with anything?"
it has everything to do with everything. this whole thing started because I said:
the reason people have distrust in chainsawman being pre-animated is because of the aot trailer.''

Yes, because people are misinformed, how can a studio break their trust, when the studio doesn't decide anything regarding the production? What people don't understand is that studios don't own 99.9% of anime they're making, for example Jujutsu Kaisen, Hell's Paradise, Attack on Titan and Chainsaw Man are all made under Mappa, but JJK is owned by Toho, Hell's Paradise is owned by Twin Engine, Aot is owned by Kodansha/Pony Canyon, and Chainsaw Man is owned by Mappa, and the company which owns the anime does all the decisions regarding the adaptation, it's not a studios fault that people don't understand how anime production works.


"If Mappa didn't take it, they would've just go down the ladder to smaller studios"
do you really think they were stupid enough to give one of the biggest anime titles ever to a small studio?

Yes, I do, contrary to what people think the anime itself generates only a fraction of the money the committees get. The most profits are in manga sales and merchendise, and even if anime adaptation is bad, it just forces people to read the manga, which means more profit, and it doesn't affect merchendise sales much, because they still promote the series with anime, and a lot of people don't care about animation, which again is where they make most of their money. The reason season 4 was rushed, is because the manga was ending soon, and they had to make the anime adaptation fast, to boost the manga sales for most profit, and if the anime was garbage, it would be even a better reason for people to go read the manga. If you don't think they would give it to a trash studio, then just look at what happened to Nanatsu no Taizai, One Punch Man or even Yakusoku no Neverland (which both seasons were made by Cloverworks).


"detailed character designs
more random lines on the shadow parts is not detail. at least not good detail. there are countless shots were the faces in s4 look extremely ugly. I just don't agree with this.''

The lines you're talking about are called hatching, it's a method where you use vertical lines for shading. I'm not talking about hatching when I say ''more detailed designs'' What I mean by that is more detailed linework and shading, which previous seasons lacked, because the character models were simplified, for them to be able to make smoother action animation, which Part 1 of s4 doesn't have, so they went with more detailed designs. Also the character designs were also changing between seasons 1-3 in every season.


"All of this is again Pony Canyon's and Kodansha's fault
listen it doesn't matter who is exactly to blame. But I am going to say that maybe the reason wit didn't except it, was because they didn't want to deal with shit like this. and maybe that's the reason they have yet to make a product with bad production.''

Wit didn't make season 4, because they were losing money on the production of every season, their management is a mess, and they outsource too much stuff, which is way more expensive than making anime in house, and Arifumi Imai and a lot of other animatiors left the production, so if they were still in charge of season 4 it would just be a slide show and Madbox CGI fest.


"Arifumi Imai
I mean he didn't work on s2 and 1 and they still looked amazing. I think they looked better than s3, although that was due to the lack of time, but still. what I'm saying is while he was an addition, he was certainly not the only person responsible for making wits aot look great.

He did work on season 1 and 2, he was the action director, and lead action animator for all 3 seasons, and he is literally the person who conceptualized how ODM gear would move in Aot, and he's the person who made and supervised all of ODM sakuga in Wit's Aot.

Apolygon2 said:


I never said I think people are right.

I think the show will look incredible.

I just think the reason some people aren't with me is mappa's own fault.

MadanielFL said:
When will all these normies watch real Mappa anime like Idaten Deities??

Apolygon2 said:



I've consumed more aot content than you can imagine. If I thought they didn't say the trailer was pre-animated, no one else knew it either. and since we are, or at leas I was talking about reputation, that's all that matters.

if you think having character movement in those shots in the trailer would work, you have no idea how to make a trailer.

the war scene had a still frame, but that exact scene had great animation after the 2 second long still shot.

how you story board a trailer compared to an anime is completely different. since the shots they use for the trailer are often far away from each other in the anime, or are from completely different scenes. they aren't the same thing at all. you can't compare them. they are too different.


that's not a different color pallet. it's different lighting.

Ionliosite2 said:


Probably never, which is sad, because that's the best anime MAPPA has made.