| What I am referring to is the classic shoujo ai or shounen ai undertones in a series that NEVER do anything more with it, it's only there to bring in the sheep, nothing comes to fruition, no ships sail, etc. We all know Kai and Kukuru are going to get together at the end. What I wouldn't give for Kai to get cucked by Fuuka and for Fuuka and Kukuru to get together after the intense and emotional journey to save the aquarium, etc Could make a good doujin actually, Kai stumbling upon them together in the act and is left huddling slightly outside the door, tears in the eyes, hands in the pants, etc. Artists, if you're reading.... You're welcome. Too many shows aren't courageous enough to follow through with all this suggestion, and it's getting a little old... |
| I'm just gonna say this again: If you really think that any form of comradery between two characters of the same gender immediately means, that they are gay, then the problem is not the show itself. |
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Piromysl said: LOL, get off you high horse and open your eyes. I've watched many anime that had "cOMraDEry" between two characters of the same gender that never had undertones in them. I'm just gonna say this again: If you really think that any form of comradery between two characters of the same gender immediately means, that they are gay, then the problem is not the show itself. |
GakutoDeathGlareSep 10, 2021 1:34 AM
GakutoDeathGlare said: Piromysl said: LOL, got off you high horse and open your eyes. I've watched many anime that had "cOMraDEry" between two characters of the same gender that never had undertones in them. I'm just gonna say this again: If you really think that any form of comradery between two characters of the same gender immediately means, that they are gay, then the problem is not the show itself. Then maybe you should watch a few more, because nowhere in this show is any implication of any LGBT relationship and on top of that, both of main giris emphasise how they'd rather be sisters. There is also not a single anime ever, despite NOT being advertised as yuri/yaoi have two main characters turn out gay in the end. So, yeah. Basically a Twitter moment right there.  |
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Piromysl said: This is what I'm getting at though lol, these directors and/or mangagkas being cowards about their obvious undertone inclusions into the story, YET LITERALLY AS YOU SAY, nothing happens in the end. GakutoDeathGlare said: LOL, got off you high horse and open your eyes. I've watched many anime that had "cOMraDEry" between two characters of the same gender that never had undertones in them. Then maybe you should watch a few more, because nowhere in this show is any implication of any LGBT relationship and on top of that, both of main giris emphasise how they'd rather be sisters. There is also not a single anime ever, despite NOT being advertised as yuri/yaoi have two main characters turn out gay in the end. So, yeah. Basically a Twitter moment right there. This show was just an example (you obviously cannot see it, that's fine, but it's on you.) |
GakutoDeathGlare said: Piromysl said: This is what I'm getting at though lol, these directors and/or mangagkas being cowards about their obvious undertone inclusions into the story, yet as you say, nothing happens in the end. Then maybe you should watch a few more, because nowhere in this show is any implication of any LGBT relationship and on top of that, both of main giris emphasise how they'd rather be sisters. There is also not a single anime ever, despite NOT being advertised as yuri/yaoi have two main characters turn out gay in the end. So, yeah. Basically a Twitter moment right there. This show was just an example (you obviously cannot see it, that's fine, but it's on you.) They are not "cowards". Gay relationships are fundamentally different than straight ones and are written completely differently. Nobody working on Aquatope has any such experience, so they just not doing it, because otherwise it would look as bad as Kirito X Asuna. |
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| How can you get tired of something that isn't even there. |
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theGodde said: Piromysl said: the difference here is the direction is very suggestive. Lots of shots held for unnaturally long periods of just them holding hands and staring into one another's eyes. Then maybe you should watch a few more, because nowhere in this show is any implication of any LGBT relationship and on top of that, both of main giris emphasise how they'd rather be sisters. There is also not a single anime ever, despite NOT being advertised as yuri/yaoi have two main characters turn out gay in the end. So, yeah. Basically a Twitter moment right there. I think most of us have become so desensitised to "fanservicey moments" that it's a lot harder to notice when this kind of stuff is sexually charged. But I'd agree this isn't going to go anywhere. I guess whoever was doing the storyboards was horny af because it doesn't translate to the actual plot or themes in any way. In Japan it is perfectly normal to casually skinship close friends like that, so that might be the culprit you are looking for. |
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| When people wants to see too much in few gestures. So far thete was nothing I would call more than strong friendship. Maybe you should look with less expectation than some gestures between same gender means they will be couple |
| Appreciate the "It's fine as it is" option since the poll and the thread are different questions and that replies to both |
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Hot_Green_Tea said: Nowadays everything needs to be sexualized huh? It's funny that you say this. Nobody asked the creators to sexualize anything. It's the creator themselves who came up with the highly suggestive scenes. Now how could the viewer be at fault to notice something questionable in a suggestive scene? As for OP. Mari Okada's previous anime might interest you. She isn't a coward and most people hate her because of that. |
| I feel you. I've been a yuri fan for years and this is just the typical experience of watching anime. If something doesn't have a yuri tag and isn't marketed as yuri from the get-go, it's not going to give you representation. It's a lesson we all have to learn. Should more shows follow through instead of queerbaiting viewers and going the ever-popular "they're like sisters!" route? Yes. But we should also stop expecting better from anime, a medium produced in a country with very different attitudes towards LGBT people and LGBT representation than in the Western world, which I assume you're a part of. I just stopped getting my hopes up unless something is a straight-up yuri, ever. I recommend other people do the same, no matter how much handholding, longing gazes and declarations of devotion there are in a series. Aquatope is a nice show, but I'd hate it if I expected it to go through with the queerness and then it wouldn't happen (which it won't). Can't wait for Japan to get marriage equality. Maybe we'll slowly move past this stage then. |
Piromysl said: theGodde said: the difference here is the direction is very suggestive. Lots of shots held for unnaturally long periods of just them holding hands and staring into one another's eyes. I think most of us have become so desensitised to "fanservicey moments" that it's a lot harder to notice when this kind of stuff is sexually charged. But I'd agree this isn't going to go anywhere. I guess whoever was doing the storyboards was horny af because it doesn't translate to the actual plot or themes in any way. In Japan it is perfectly normal to casually skinship close friends like that, so that might be the culprit you are looking for. It's the opposite actually. Japan is all about distancing and bowing to each other. They don't even shake hands. Only really close friends and family can cross this social barrier. That's what makes it different in Aquatope. Take literally any other anime where two girls just met. If one girl stay to close to the other one, she's going to feel embarassed and say "you're too close" in 100% case. Fuuka barely knows Kukuru and yet they don't have this social barrier. She devotes herself in her life in a way that no freshly made friend would. In Japan you don't devote yourself in someone's life you barely know. |
Hrybami said: Only really close friends and family can cross this social barrier. Literally what I said. Thanks for agreeing. And yes, those two are close friend. Enough to sleep in the same room and fantasie about being sisters. You might argue that development of their friendship is rushed and that's about it. |
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| The anime will have 24 episodes in total, right? If there is going to be some romance I think they have plenty of time to do so. |
Piromysl said: Hrybami said: Only really close friends and family can cross this social barrier. Literally what I said. Thanks for agreeing. And yes, those two are close friend. Enough to sleep in the same room and fantasie about being sisters. You might argue that development of their friendship is rushed and that's about it. Did you pay attention to the dialogue? They say they want to know each other better and follow each other path to their dream. That is no close friend or family dialogue. |
Hrybami said: Piromysl said: Literally what I said. Thanks for agreeing. And yes, those two are close friend. Enough to sleep in the same room and fantasie about being sisters. You might argue that development of their friendship is rushed and that's about it. Did you pay attention to the dialogue? They say they want to know each other better and follow each other path to their dream. That is no close friend or family dialogue. It might be very much friendly dialogue. |
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Swagernator said: How can you get tired of something that isn't even there. Your banner ... I can relate |
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Hot_Green_Tea said: Hrybami said: It's funny that you say this. Nobody asked the creators to sexualize anything. It's the creator themselves who came up with the highly suggestive scenes. Now how could the viewer be at fault to notice something questionable in a suggestive scene? As for OP. Mari Okada's previous anime might interest you. She isn't a coward and most people hate her because of that. What are these suggestive scenes that you're talking about? There were context for most of the moments when they're really close to each other. Of course. There has to be a context if you want to transmit suggestive ideas. You won't find them in the literal context or lines. A scene may have more than 1 meaning. |
| I already said it in the other recent thread topic where this issue was addressed. There is no "bait" to speak of to begin with because nothing in this series from the first second of episode one to the present has ever shown anything to imply or suggest a romantic or sexual relationship between the two main characters in any way. This is people reading into something that is not there and I know that is what they're doing and it's extremely obvious, because many were doing it on this sub-forum before the series even began airing so it isn't even predicated on any content present or not in the actual anime. There is a vocal group that was openly wishing for the series to take such a direction literally before it even started. That's fine. They're entitled to their preferences of wanting the series to go in whichever direction they desire, but it is rooted in desire - personal desire and fantasy. Not any observed reality of anything that's been happening in the series since its debut. The way some people talk, it's as if the expectation is for all real world same-sex people who consider themselves as friends and their anime counterparts onscreen to act like prudish and frosty 17th century Puritans or Calvinist seminarians toward one another lest their touch or glance be taken as too sexually charged or provocative. It is not only possible, but quite common, to have an unquestionably platonic deep relationship with another person which is also physically open and relaxed, whether between members of the same or opposite sexes. I don't think I've even seen an anime in the past few years where two male or two female characters don't act affectionately toward one another and it doesn't generate immediate, usually unwarranted, fan chatter and speculation about imagined romantic and sexual relations. It's not the writers', creators', or director's fault, because I didn't come away with that impression at all. It's people projecting what they want to see on the series and refusing to accept the validity and authenticity of two humans' non-sexual and non-romantic relationship being equally purposeful. Not everything needs to stray into romance or sex to be meaningful. It's the inability of people to accept that which is a whole other problem. |
| What I see on this show is a friendly relationship that becomes more intimate without getting romantic. |
   You and the rose are connected. Know the weight of your own life |
| voted "fine as it is". It's true that I like yuri anime, but it's still fine even if this show does not go yuri... because this anime has several other things that make it interesting to watch. There's fish - I'm an aquarium enthusiast, there's Fuuka - her idol storyline adds a lot to the show. if I need some real yuri.. there's a lot of yuri manga to read at other sites. hehe ^^ |
Liddo-kunSep 12, 2021 4:21 AM
theGodde said: Idan said: You'll be waiting a looooong time my friendI feel you. I've been a yuri fan for years and this is just the typical experience of watching anime. If something doesn't have a yuri tag and isn't marketed as yuri from the get-go, it's not going to give you representation. It's a lesson we all have to learn. Should more shows follow through instead of queerbaiting viewers and going the ever-popular "they're like sisters!" route? Yes. But we should also stop expecting better from anime, a medium produced in a country with very different attitudes towards LGBT people and LGBT representation than in the Western world, which I assume you're a part of. I just stopped getting my hopes up unless something is a straight-up yuri, ever. I recommend other people do the same, no matter how much handholding, longing gazes and declarations of devotion there are in a series. Aquatope is a nice show, but I'd hate it if I expected it to go through with the queerness and then it wouldn't happen (which it won't). Can't wait for Japan to get marriage equality. Maybe we'll slowly move past this stage then. gonna be honest Japan is still in the 60s when it comes to minority rights of all kinds. Japanese people still think "she's a woman but she can't cook" is a good joke. We're a long way off from even just basic gender equality. Looking at the replies in the thread can tell you that MAL users are generally not better. As if it was a big deal that two same-sex characters develop romantic feeling. It doesn't make sense to see shoujo ai relationships no where else than in shoujo ai anime. |
theGodde said: *off-topicIdan said: You'll be waiting a looooong time my friendI feel you. I've been a yuri fan for years and this is just the typical experience of watching anime. If something doesn't have a yuri tag and isn't marketed as yuri from the get-go, it's not going to give you representation. It's a lesson we all have to learn. Should more shows follow through instead of queerbaiting viewers and going the ever-popular "they're like sisters!" route? Yes. But we should also stop expecting better from anime, a medium produced in a country with very different attitudes towards LGBT people and LGBT representation than in the Western world, which I assume you're a part of. I just stopped getting my hopes up unless something is a straight-up yuri, ever. I recommend other people do the same, no matter how much handholding, longing gazes and declarations of devotion there are in a series. Aquatope is a nice show, but I'd hate it if I expected it to go through with the queerness and then it wouldn't happen (which it won't). Can't wait for Japan to get marriage equality. Maybe we'll slowly move past this stage then. gonna be honest Japan is still in the 60s when it comes to minority rights of all kinds. Japanese people still think "she's a woman but she can't cook" is a good joke. We're a long way off from even just basic gender equality. The Japanese were already accepting of homosexuals long before the Western view of the LGBT community began to be theorized. And even the system in place there today when it comes to women's rights is quite different compared to when Westerners arrived in the 19th century. |
You and the rose are connected. Know the weight of your own life |
Hrybami said: theGodde said: You'll be waiting a looooong time my friend gonna be honest Japan is still in the 60s when it comes to minority rights of all kinds. Japanese people still think "she's a woman but she can't cook" is a good joke. We're a long way off from even just basic gender equality. Looking at the replies in the thread can tell you that MAL users are generally not better. As if it was a big deal that two same-sex characters develop romantic feeling. It doesn't make sense to see shoujo ai relationships no where else than in shoujo ai anime. Hrybami said: There is no problem with a potential romantic relationship developing, it is not the important point in this debate. The problem is that many people think that Aquatope uses elements "yuri" (or "yuribait") when it is not even shoujo ai in its correct definition, at least not so far in what it has developed.theGodde said: You'll be waiting a looooong time my friend gonna be honest Japan is still in the 60s when it comes to minority rights of all kinds. Japanese people still think "she's a woman but she can't cook" is a good joke. We're a long way off from even just basic gender equality. Looking at the replies in the thread can tell you that MAL users are generally not better. As if it was a big deal that two same-sex characters develop romantic feeling. It doesn't make sense to see shoujo ai relationships no where else than in shoujo ai anime. Same-sex relationships don't always mean one more step toward a romantic relationship. It can end more in a very intimate and trusting friendship, which so far seems more logical in Aquatope. |
You and the rose are connected. Know the weight of your own life |
Rachiba said: There is no problem with a potential romantic relationship developing, it is not the important point in this debate. The problem is that many people think that Aquatope uses elements "yuri" (or "yuribait") when it is not even shoujo ai in its correct definition, at least not so far in what it has developed. Same-sex relationships don't always mean one more step toward a romantic relationship. It can end more in a very intimate and trusting friendship, which so far seems more logical in Aquatope. Aquatope doesn't use romance elements because it decided to go with the ambiguous route. Not because it stated itself as NOT shoujo ai. Aquatope is as much shoujo ai than it is not given that it never revealed its stance on the romance yet. As for the debate, yes people clearly have a problem with same-sex relationship when you can read things like "Why two same-sex friends can't be just friends anymore?" while they don't say a damn thing when the exact same development occur in a boy-girl relationship. We have plenty of anime exploring same-sex relationships in a very platonic way. I mean it's almost always a given that when two same-sex characters interact together, it's never in a romantic way. Aquatope seemed to include that step toward a romantic relationship in its promotional videos/teasers, but ended up being ambiguous in its presentation which can be seen as yuribait at this point. Nobody is forcing anime creators to transform friendship into romance. |
Hrybami said: It seems that we are understanding each other.Rachiba said: There is no problem with a potential romantic relationship developing, it is not the important point in this debate. The problem is that many people think that Aquatope uses elements "yuri" (or "yuribait") when it is not even shoujo ai in its correct definition, at least not so far in what it has developed. Same-sex relationships don't always mean one more step toward a romantic relationship. It can end more in a very intimate and trusting friendship, which so far seems more logical in Aquatope. Aquatope doesn't use romance elements because it decided to go with the ambiguous route. Not because it stated itself as NOT shoujo ai. Aquatope is as much shoujo ai than it is not given that it never revealed its stance on the romance yet. As for the debate, yes people clearly have a problem with same-sex relationship when you can read things like "Why two same-sex friends can't be just friends anymore?" while they don't say a damn thing when the exact same development occur in a boy-girl relationship. We have plenty of anime exploring same-sex relationships in a very platonic way. I mean it's almost always a given that when two same-sex characters interact together, it's never in a romantic way. Aquatope seemed to include that step toward a romantic relationship in its promotional videos/teasers, but ended up being ambiguous in its presentation which can be seen as yuribait at this point. Nobody is forcing anime creators to transform friendship into romance. Still, let's compare for example an anime about platonic relationships between "sisters" like Maria-sama (I recommend this anime) where the friendship between two characters is extremely intimate, and although there are hints, it is only a hierarchical relationship. I don't mean to say that there is no shoujo ai (there are some characters in particular who openly show romance). And with Aquatope barely approaching the middle, it's still early to wrap up where the series is going. But it is not wrong to inquire about a possible romantic relationship. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it got to that point. The real point would be the impact it can generate. But for now, they are just rumors and theories to me. |
You and the rose are connected. Know the weight of your own life |
Hot_Green_Tea said: Hrybami said: Of course. There has to be a context if you want to transmit suggestive ideas. You won't find them in the literal context or lines. A scene may have more than 1 meaning. Yes, but in this case the context of the actions/suggestive scenes are clear enough(whether it'd be the facial expressions/lines/situation/inner monologue/previous scene that relates to it/etc. Which all were shown in the show) for those scenes to heavily imply that it doesn't want the viewers to branch to other meaning such as sexual attraction or those sort of subtext. Fūka sees her formerself in Kukuru (fighting for her dream even when the people surrounding her doesn't believe in her) and does her best to help her (she wants to support someone else's dream since she has lost her's. She said that is her motivation) While, Kukuru sees Fūka as a family member/sister (more specifically she sees Fūka as her big Sister/Onēchan) because Fūka was always there for her(and they understand each other like sisters). They've also mentioned their intention for each other several times (and it wasn't sexually/romantically related). You can ignore the context and think of those scenes(separately) as suggestive but from the episodes that has aired and the context that was given, the show's direction already showed that it isn't shōjo ai related. Why are you talking about ignoring the context when it's the context itself that is heavily suggestive? You don't have to ignore anything in order to see something suggestive. I mean, it's pretty much how the brain works with how we are able to interpret the drawings and the situations we are witnessing. The shoujo-ai subtexts are entirely within how their friendship was built. How they speak to each other, how they interact together, their body gestures... Although the anime never implied sexual attraction, some scenes were oddly presented in a suggestive way that could be seen as a hint toward a romance. Even though I don't believe this anime will be shoujo ai and I recognize Fuuka and Kukuru relationship as platonic, I can't help but see those suggestive subtexts in their friendship. This is my impression taken from my experience with Japanese culture and other friendship featured in other anime. |
Hrybami said: Looking at the replies in the thread can tell you that MAL users are generally not better. As if it was a big deal that two same-sex characters develop romantic feeling. It doesn't make sense to see shoujo ai relationships no where else than in shoujo ai anime. They're kept segregated in the dank ghetto of the Shoujo-Ai label where they belong!!! ... Kidding. I don't think it's a big deal which would require a massive justification, nor am I against it. I just simply don't see the evidence for it in this series so far and I think people (fans of anime and other media content) read too much into romantic and sexual implications of interactions between everyone - both same-sex and opposite sex characters. There is nothing wrong with or inferior about a deep and abiding platonic friendship, whether between people of the same sex or opposite sexes. |
| It's not necessarily a boring show, just a pleasantly tranquil show. Meaning tranquility is all it has going for it. Even "Amanchu" had more excitement in it in comparison. |
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