Children under the age of 16 considering gender reassignment are unlikely to be mature enough to give informed consent to be prescribed puberty-blocking drugs, the high court has ruled. Even in cases involving teenagers under 18 doctors may need to consult the courts for authorisation for medical intervention, three senior judges have ruled in an action brought against the Tavistock and Portman NHS trust, which runs the UK’s main gender identity development service for children. An NHS spokesperson welcomed the “clarity” the decision had brought, adding: “The Tavistock have immediately suspended new referrals for puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for the under 16s, which in future will only be permitted where a court specifically authorises it. Dr Hilary Cass is conducting a wider review on the future of gender identity services.” The 19-page judgment in effect introduces guidelines for the way in which the London clinic handles young patients who experience gender dysphoria – the condition where they are distressed because of a “mismatch between their perceived identity and … their sex at birth”. The claim was brought by Keira Bell, a 23-year-old woman who began taking puberty blockers when she was 16 before detransitioning, and the unnamed mother of a 15-year-old autistic girl who is on the waiting list for treatment. In their decision, Dame Victoria Sharp, president of the Queen’s bench division, Lord Justice Lewis and Mrs Justice Lieven, said a child under the age of 16 may only consent to the use of medication intended to suppress puberty “where he or she is competent to understand the nature of the treatment”. Such an understanding must include “the immediate and long-term consequences of the treatment, the limited evidence available as to its efficacy or purpose, the fact that the vast majority of patients proceed to the use of cross-sex hormones, and its potential life-changing consequences for a child”. The judges said there would be enormous difficulties for young children weighing up this information and deciding whether to consent to the use of puberty blocking medication. “It is highly unlikely that a child aged 13 or under would be competent to give consent to the administration of puberty blockers,” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/01/children-who-want-puberty-blockers-must-understand-effects-high-court-rules https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-55144148 https://news.sky.com/story/high-court-ruling-on-puberty-blockers-protects-teenagers-says-woman-who-sued-nhs-12147949 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/children-puberty-blockers-gender-reassignment-b1764415.html Nice I agree with this ruling, good job UK |
| 한 번만 살지만 제대로 하면 한 번이면 충분해요 |
RightwingMilluki said: The leftist degenerates in Germany in the 70s wanted to let children decide for themselves if they want to have sex with adults. The new version of this is the trans nonsense. Regretting a sex change is probably worse for ones mental health than havng been sexually molested. So it is more evil. Baby brides and child marriage are right wing culture bro. But nice try. |
| This is a difficult topic to handle. I can see both pros and cons to each side, and frankly I'm not knowledgeable about any of this to present a concrete opinion. All I can say is I support the Trans community, I'm definitely an ally and I wish them well in their activism. |
Bernrika said: RightwingMilluki said: The leftist degenerates in Germany in the 70s wanted to let children decide for themselves if they want to have sex with adults. The new version of this is the trans nonsense. Regretting a sex change is probably worse for ones mental health than havng been sexually molested. So it is more evil. Baby brides and child marriage are right wing culture bro. But nice try. Agreed. middle eastern Islamic culture. |
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| Puberty blockers are child abuse and people that give them to kids should be arrested. |
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| Eye rolling in the speed of ligth RN, but theres no need to explain for the 100 time why PB work here yet. |
| heh. |
Kayle_x_Morgana said: Agreed. middle eastern Islamic culture. There was that old saying: "Only on XBOX" ArabianLuffy says: "Yup, Kayle is right. Only middle eastern Islamic culture" - ArabianLuffy (Dec 2nd, 2020) |
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Groyper said: Puberty blockers are child abuse and people that give them to kids should be arrested. It's a medical treatment since there isn't much of any development on what else to do really. So not giving it would be neglect. It's complicated. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| It's always good to see phrases such as "highly unlikely", especially when someone is using them as an excuse to prohibit something. "This treatment of this deadly disease is highly unlikely to be successful, so I guess we have no choice but to let you die." Imagine changing the requirement from age to something else, such as mental or emotional maturity. Nah, good luck convincing people to support such a "ludicrous" idea. Obviously, all that matters is age. Like everyone magically becomes an adult both physically and mentally once they reach 18 and not a single day earlier or later. |
| Wait, is this a thing that they're only now figuring out? Did they really need a study to find out that KIDS usually have no idea what they're talking about when they come out as "trans"? Did they really need a team of scientists to intensively research this to figure out that KIDS don't make informed decisions and shouldn't be allowed to decide by themselves to take life-altering and possibly damaging hormone medication? A round of applause for the scientific community, please. Groyper said: Puberty blockers are child abuse and people that give them to kids should be arrested. Absolutely, people are saying these hormone blockers are actually medication for their gender dysphoria but all it does is make their delusions worse. DONT MESS WITH THE HORMONAL BALANCE OF KIDS GOING THROUGH PUBERTY YOU IDIOTS. |
| I agree they should be outlawed as the minor`s brain is not yet fully developed until puberty is over. It is easy to regret decisions made as a kid that could effect you your entire life. |
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149597871 said: It's always good to see phrases such as "highly unlikely", especially when someone is using them as an excuse to prohibit something. "This treatment of this deadly disease is highly unlikely to be successful, so I guess we have no choice but to let you die." Imagine changing the requirement from age to something else, such as mental or emotional maturity. Nah, good luck convincing people to support such a "ludicrous" idea. Obviously, all that matters is age. Like everyone magically becomes an adult both physically and mentally once they reach 18 and not a single day earlier or later. I'm not sure but I think that's what the courts are supposed to do when the parents don't agree but the minor still requests it. Determine if they can make that decision but I kind of doubt they dive into it and their personal bias will play a role in their decision. Pernodi said: Groyper said: Puberty blockers are child abuse and people that give them to kids should be arrested. Absolutely, people are saying these hormone blockers are actually medication for their gender dysphoria but all it does is make their delusions worse. DONT MESS WITH THE HORMONAL BALANCE OF KIDS GOING THROUGH PUBERTY YOU IDIOTS. What evidence do you have as a basis to make you suggest it makes it worse? |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| @Ghemotoc Are you really going to start stalking my mentions and hurling baseless insults at me based on one short interaction we've had? Since you can't stop acting like a little kid I'm blocking you. (inb4 "Im just acting the way you are XD", that's clearly not the case here at all. Anyone here except you can see that) |
traed said: I just want to see what he says. I'm open to views on this because it's kind of a damned if you do danned if you don't deal.... It just boggles my mind that the official best way to treat gender dysphoria is now to pump you full of estrogen/testoserone and hormone blockers and undergo a life-changing, irreversible operation that removes your genitals. I've skimmed google scholar and most of it just talks about the sociological/psychological aspects of being transgender. But where are the studies into the possible biological causes of gender dyphoria, where are the brain studies? Instead of looking for the root cause of gender dysphoria and finding a way to "cure" it, doctors are now promoting having life-altering surgery and permanently changing these people's lives. Studies showing that the suicide rate among transgender people (which is already one of the highest of any population) remains horrifyingly high even after sex change surgery makes me especially cautious of this method. (Mental) health care should be about helping people, not about fulfilling their every desire, especially in an irreversible way like sex change surgery. Especially since a real sex change is physically impossible, it probably won't bring the happiness that these dysphoric people are looking for. |
PernodiDec 3, 2020 3:27 AM
Pernodi said: traed said: I just want to see what he says. I'm open to views on this because it's kind of a damned if you do danned if you don't deal.... It just boggles my mind that the official best way to treat gender dysphoria is now to pump you full of estrogen/testoserone and hormone blockers and undergo a life-changing, irreversible operation that removes your genitals. I've skimmed google scholar and most of it just talks about the sociological/psychological aspects of being transgender. But where are the studies into the possible biological causes of gender dyphoria, where are the brain studies? Instead of looking for the root cause of gender dysphoria and finding a way to "cure" it, doctors are now promoting having life-altering surgery and permanently changing these people's lives. Studies showing that the suicide rate among transgender people (which is already one of the highest of any population) remains horrifyingly high even after sex change surgery makes me especially cautious of this method. (Mental) health care should be about helping people, not about fulfilling their every desire, especially in an irreversible way like sex change surgery. Especially since a real sex change is physically impossible, it probably won't bring the happiness that these dysphoric people are looking for. Hormone blockers are reversible that is why they are used. These things are done because other things didn't work. Antipsychotics were tried before and that only does anything for people with schizophrenic or bipolar delusions. Gender dysphoria doesn't as a whole have the same cause. There appears to be multiple types as far as I am aware. You also need to keep in mind psychiatric medicine also can have permanent effects. There has been brain studies before but thing is these studies don't help understand enough without following a person through their life having an old scan to compare. There also is genetic studies to look for genetic markers. I had a theory in the past that it was a type of intersex but that has been shown in genetic studies to have no link to the genes associated with being intersexed. I think there has also been studies on hormone levels. It does remain high but does lessen. Part of that why it's high is sociological factors though. I wouldn't say it's impossible just not currently possible. There has been some success in rodent studies on changing sex. You didn't reply to my original responce to you. Do you not have non anecdotal evidence that puberty blockers exacerbate gender dysphoria? |
traedDec 3, 2020 9:01 AM
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| Puberty blockers have some negatives but.... it only stops puberty to give time to decide a different puberty. It isn't the hormones themselves. There are negatives with trans girls transitioning early... and mostly cause anyone you would use hormone blockers on... actually does need to go through some of intended puberty enough to grow the penis. Bottom surgey is just more often desired in people who have it that strong. Suicide rates are high only because of lack of acceptance. Especially parental rejection. The detrans rate is very low... lower than those who get misdiagnosed as bipolar when they are actually ADHD and vice versa... And most detrans actually retrans... People who retrans say lack of acceptance is why they detransed |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| @cipheron First study you're trying to equate gendered traits with gender dysphoria which isn't the same thing. Being a tomboy or butch lesbian isn't being a trans man (not too different though dysphoria aside) and doesn't mean they have gender dysphoria so that could only explain one factor of certain subsets. That fails to explain the dysphoria in FtM because of this.. Also that study was going off self identification. Some girls / women that identify as lesbians are actually bisexuals that either have a lesbian leaning sexuality or they had a bad relationship and swore off sexual and romantic relations with men. You're not considering all the people that have had prenatal hormone exposure like that who aren't trans and don't have gender dysphoria. Prenatal hormone exposure is also tied to homosexuality and bisexuality though the finger ratio thing gets tricky with that. Due to this the second study you linked (which I'm too busy to read in full atm so correct me if im wrong) is faulty in that it did not account for the sexuality of the FtMs so the prenatal hormone exposure link could be explained by the sexuality of the participants. It's something that has to be ruled out. |
traedDec 4, 2020 9:57 AM
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Energetic-Nova said: Puberty blockers have some negatives but.... it only stops puberty to give time to decide a different puberty. It isn't the hormones themselves. There are negatives with trans girls transitioning early... and mostly cause anyone you would use hormone blockers on... actually does need to go through some of intended puberty enough to grow the penis. Bottom surgey is just more often desired in people who have it that strong. Suicide rates are high only because of lack of acceptance. Especially parental rejection. The detrans rate is very low... lower than those who get misdiagnosed as bipolar when they are actually ADHD and vice versa... And most detrans actually retrans... People who retrans say lack of acceptance is why they detransed i wont accept lunacy. moving on |
| I've been saying for years that kids under 16 should not be transitioning. It can have tragic consequences if everything isn't addressed correctly. |
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Energetic-Nova said: There are negatives with trans girls transitioning early... and mostly cause anyone you would use hormone blockers on... actually does need to go through some of intended puberty enough to grow the penis. Bottom surgey is just more often desired in people who have it that strong. You mean there needs to be some standard puberty to have enough for a surgeon to work with for "bottom" surgery? Suicide rates are high only because of lack of acceptance. Especially parental rejection. I wouldn't be so hasty to say only. The detrans rate is very low... lower than those who get misdiagnosed as bipolar when they are actually ADHD and vice versa... And most detrans actually retrans... People who retrans say lack of acceptance is why they detransed Couldn't part of why it's low is because what they went through after surgery causing an aversion to it, how they cant fully reverse the effects (except remove breast implants that is easy enough to undo) and because those who would feel regret might commit suicide? Also where are you getting those numbers from? Hoppy said: I've been saying for years that kids under 16 should not be transitioning. It can have tragic consequences if everything isn't addressed correctly. Such as? And what is correct? |
traedDec 4, 2020 11:51 AM
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
traed said: yeah cause it forms the vagina...,Energetic-Nova said: There are negatives with trans girls transitioning early... and mostly cause anyone you would use hormone blockers on... actually does need to go through some of intended puberty enough to grow the penis. Bottom surgey is just more often desired in people who have it that strong. You mean there needs to be some standard puberty to have enough for a surgeon to work with for "bottom" surgery? I wouldn't be so hasty to say only. It is the top reason.... reduces by half just referring to them by their preferred pronouns. Non-acceptance at home makes them leave home, homelessness, sex work. Couldn't part of why it's low is because what they went through after surgery causing an aversion to it, how they cant fully reverse the effects (except remove breast implants that is easy enough to undo) and because those who would feel regret might commit suicide? Also where are you getting those numbers from? They seldom get bottom surgery (the only part that is irreversible. Most of transitioning as a teen is just letting them wear the clothes they want and the name and pronouns. No different hormones. All the ones I knew did have to wait but they had parents and who let them do all the other parts. They are still alive... the one that parents rejected? He is dead... His parents wondered why he killed himself... but... There is a low regret statistic like I said.... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1102686 Surgery regret (2% after 50 year study) is more of a thing than transition regret. That is cause it isn’t a real one you know? And you can lose sensation and ability to perform sexual actions. Only 25% of trans do gender affirming surgery. Most of what trans women want is facial feminization. Most do not even get that. And they don’t even allow surgeries until 18. And it isn’t easy to get doctors to agree to do it. Which means yes, the majority of trans women out there have natural boobs. Look where detrans pressure comes from: parents. It isnt that they wanted to, it is that their parents don’t want them to be trans. This contributes to suicide. Only 0.4% of the survey said they detransitioned cause Trans wasn’t right for them. (I saw another figure from another source which put it at 0.3, and it was a trans health facility). Prepubescent kids don’t go under hormone therapy... so when people talk about very young kids... they are getting mad at kids for “crossdressing”. Misdiagnosis with adhd and bipolar is super common... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2945875/ 40% or bipolar people are first diagnosed with unipolar depression and given meds which increase their suicide rates to up to 50%. Yeah depression meds are a killer. Personally was misdiagnosed Depression, Then borderline, then Bipolar until they found I had ADHD. It was a real mess. I was put into a special ed class cause people just thought I was sad? And having outbursts on purpose. It ruined so much of my life not having correct diagnosis. At they time the most they did was call me emotionally retarded. In the 90’s some doctors didn’t think girls could have ADHD. https://www.psychcongress.com/blog/distinguishing-bipolar-disorder-adhd And people get misdiagnosed WITH ADHD too. And the fact that they are so seldom wrong about trans compared to just about any other mental disorder I can think of says that it must be more than even a typival mental disorder. They misdiagnose autism more than they misdiagnose trans. Keep in mind, ADHD meds are amphetamines... sooo meth. We give small kids meth. But oh no, letting them crossdress is going too far. XD Something that might be of interest because we are in an anime forum, they are starting to give estrogen facial cream to femboys. Some Femboys are in fact non-binary and have dysphoria. I actually know several “femboys” Who are actually trans and have been on hormones for years. femboys can’t stay like that forever... and this helps. |
Energetic-NovaDec 4, 2020 10:27 PM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy preparing for exams. traed said: You didn't reply to my original responce to you. Do you not have non anecdotal evidence that puberty blockers exacerbate gender dysphoria? I think you've misunderstood my original post. All I meant to say is: allowing underage people to start taking hormone blockers and preparing to transition only reaffirms their delusions. the only source I need for that is a healthy dose of common sense. If you want a more in-depth and well-sourced book on the matter, I'm mainly basing my stance on When Harry Became Sally: Responding to the Transgender Moment, and Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters to a lesser degree since I haven't finished it. inb4 "why do you care what other people do with their body". I don't, but in 2020, people are literally getting fired from their jobs and blacklisted because they didn't play along with the trans supporters little theater of calling a dude in a dress a woman. If you don't think that's completely fucked up then I don't know what to tell you. |
| Imagine reading a book called "the Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters" on your free time. Also imagine thinking you're "basing your stance" on that, when your stance was already pretty clear the moment you bought it to get informations on the subject. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
cipheron said: EDIT: additionally, these have all popped up in the last 10 years. If it's real, then why aren't there big clumps of desperate untreated female-to-male transgender people from previous generations? This wasn't recognized by prev. generations and big clumps of girls weren't claiming to have gender dysphoria either, but they seemed to get along ok. You don't get women who are 30 going "i've realized i'm trans and my 6 BFF's from highschool have told me they're really trans too", but if this is a real phenomena, that should be happening too, not just 15 year olds. I am 30. I had a lot of trans friends in my friendship group in high school. We were all into BL manga. Almost everyone in my friendship group was queer. Tho, not all were out. [Ty] came out first while a teenager about 16 years ago, even earlier to his parents. He is a very happy person. His parents accepted him. My high school friend group consisted of 2 bi trans men. 1 gay trans man. 8 bisexual women. 3 cis gay men (I knew an additional 5 and was friends with them outside the group) . 1 bisexual guy. 1 bi curious dude who just enjoyed a good time. 3 ace girls. No lesbians. But gained trans women friends in college. There is a different phenomenon: queer kids find each other and hang out somehow. And the high LGBTQ present in Animanga community especially if you are all bounding over BL and Yuri manga. We did mostly play smash bros tho. 😂 And we also had a GSA which more instantly connected us all. But one of thosw friends I had since Elementary. Idk it is pretty weird I guess. This supposed phenomenon is only being documented by transphobic parents. They aren’t asking their kids. Prob the biggest flaw in their theory. :/ Parents think the other queer kids made their kid queer instead of assuming the more logical thing... Their kid found friends who would also accept them. Also if anything spread this way in my group it was bisexuality. 😂 like why wouldnt most of the bi girls have also been trans men if this was how it worked? |
Energetic-NovaDec 5, 2020 9:00 AM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| ... is right wing. |
Energetic-Nova said: cipheron said: EDIT: additionally, these have all popped up in the last 10 years. If it's real, then why aren't there big clumps of desperate untreated female-to-male transgender people from previous generations? This wasn't recognized by prev. generations and big clumps of girls weren't claiming to have gender dysphoria either, but they seemed to get along ok. You don't get women who are 30 going "i've realized i'm trans and my 6 BFF's from highschool have told me they're really trans too", but if this is a real phenomena, that should be happening too, not just 15 year olds. I am 30. I had a lot of trans friends in my friendship group in high school. We were all into BL manga. Almost everyone in my friendship group was queer. Tho, not all were out. [Ty] came out first while a teenager about 16 years ago, even earlier to his parents. He is a very happy person. His parents accepted him. My high school friend group consisted of 2 bi trans men. 1 gay trans man. 8 bisexual women. 3 cis gay men (I knew an additional 5 and was friends with them outside the group) . 1 bisexual guy. 1 bi curious dude who just enjoyed a good time. 3 ace girls. No lesbians. But gained trans women friends in college. There is a different phenomenon: queer kids find each other and hang out somehow. And the high LGBTQ present in Animanga community especially if you are all bounding over BL and Yuri manga. We did mostly play smash bros tho. 😂 And we also had a GSA which more instantly connected us all. But one of thosw friends I had since Elementary. Idk it is pretty weird I guess. This supposed phenomenon is only being documented by transphobic parents. They aren’t asking their kids. Prob the biggest flaw in their theory. :/ Parents think the other queer kids made their kid queer instead of assuming the more logical thing... Their kid found friends who would also accept them. Also if anything spread this way in my group it was bisexuality. 😂 like why wouldnt most of the bi girls have also been trans men if this was how it worked? this is so cute ahah most of my friends in the bl community I know of ( just online though not irl ) are queer |
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cipheron said: Energetic-Nova said: This supposed phenomenon is only being documented by transphobic parents. They aren’t asking their kids. Prob the biggest flaw in their theory. :/ Parents think the other queer kids made their kid queer instead of assuming the more logical thing... Their kid found friends who would also accept them. Well not according to what she's saying on the Rogan podcast. This author isn't a right-winger, and she's saying the parents are mostly supportive of the lgbt thing, we're not talking about her being contacted by the right over this. You should listen to the entire Rogan interview, especially 10mins+. The biggest issue here is that the USA lacks any safety checks on this, people can just walk in and say they have gender dysphoria as a self-diagnosis, sign a form, and get the hormones. Additionally there are surgeons (obvious not all, but enough) willing to do the breast-removal surgery without any proof you were checked out by therapists etc. Think about that. Only in America, right? Additionally, and this is mentioned at 5+ minutes into the video, they looked at those groups identified by Lisa Litman, and Litman did statistical analysis and found that the rate of transgender in these groups was about 70 times the expected rate, assuming that transgender identity is randomly distributed in a community. The identified groups are statistical unicorns, and that's the strongest argument here. I didn’t say she was right wing, I said she was bigoted. Left handedness used to be less than 1% of the population. When people stopped being persecuted so much, and some people started accepting left handedness, there was more left handedness. It is now 10% of the population. Meaning, if one person comes out as bisexual and shows that it’s OK to be bisexual, and they aren’t hurt, then more people will come out and be bisexual in the open instead of in secret. They were always bisexual, they just didn’t say in the past. BTW, recently, more people have come out as bisexual. Note my circle of friends, notice how much it was bis? I didn’t come out to my family until much later than I knew. It wasn’t safe. I came out to my friends when it was. People like her, and JK Rowling are spreading lies. How did my group have 3 trans people in it when it is before 10 years ago? There was no Caitlyn or anything else. How come the rest of us weren’t trans? How is it that the statistics do not support mass misdiagnosis? (Bipolar are misdiagnosed 70% of the time) You’re talking 0.4% of people who are misdiagnosed. And, the presence of people waiting years to get any hormones at all. people are having to order hormones online so they don’t have to put their life on hold. Oh yes, people do self diagnose, people do order their hormones online, but it’s still their choice. It’s their body. It’s not like taking and amphetamine and benzos like I do. Keep in mind, nobody under 16 could even order those hormones in the first place because they wouldn’t have money, they wouldn’t have a bank account really. No card. Parents control minors cards. You would have to ban adults of all genders getting hormones online and treat it like a narcotic. The United States medical is bad but not for lack if discrimination. . It took my friend six months to get hormones. Took another friend a year. That is more than enough time, and it’s way longer than I had to wait to get METH. What amphetamines are. At 14 years old in my state you can get an abortion without your parents permission. I think that’s a good thing. Other states you have to be 18 to even get birth control. One of the big propaganda that spread is that women, especially teens who get abortions regret it. Kinda just isn’t true for the most part. And this can make you lose fertility as well. And you can make that choice on your own without your parents. There are some very good safety and sad reasons as to why. I have had trans rights in my state since 2004-2006 (different rights put in place, some local and statewide). I don’t know anyone who transitioned to wanted to go back. The only person who ever killed themselves with somebody without accepting parents. I have a trans woman as a friend who has been waiting a year now to get facial feminization surgery. Her insurance keeps falling through before they even approve the surgery again right after her primary care doctor already approved it. But they keep sending the approval to Arizona where translates are not a thing and then, she is discriminated against. She then has to go right back to the primary care doctor get it authorized again, send that authorization to the insurance to get approved set up the appointment all of that, only to have it denied again. this is for insurance she pays for. she is 21. Its fucking stupid. Also, you do not need to be trans to want to remove your breasts. If they pay for it, it’s a cosmetic surgery and they have the right to do it just as much as they have the right to put silicone in there. so yeah, you’re right they don’t have to be checked by a therapist just to get a cosmetic surgery that would be fucking ridiculous. It’s like it’s currently ridiculous that women have to jump through so many hoops just to get their tubes tied. Are you for controlling women’s bodies? Sounds like from the right wing playbook to me! Please remember where this woman got this data, from transphobic parents. And often traumatized young adults who had parents who abused them into denying who they were. Which does happen. It is like gay people who went through conversion therapy. Pray the gay away. I’m not saying mistakes can’t be made, I’m just saying it appears to be pretty freaking rare. It’s so rare it’s less than a percent of the only 1%. On a population that is likely 8% of the population based on Left handed statistics. It’s so incredibly rare to not actually be trans. it’s probably more rare than my sleeping disorder which usually only occurs in blind people. Please please please consider the source of this information, all of this information is coming from parents who do not want their children to be trans. it is like saying there’s some sort of gay agenda... it’s the same shit. And so many homophobes think they’re not homophobic.... This fucking bitch stole the photos of a trans man who is very happy and post op... and then used them in order to spread her anti-trans propaganda. And you’re gonna believe this fucking bitch when she stole pictures of somebody very happy? And he even asked her to remove the pictures and she said no. This hurtful fucking bitch can’t even find somebody on her side to provide photographs for her little political message. That’s how unsupported it is. Her data has not been peer reviewed. She used that image to advertise this podcast. That is how unscrupulous and disgusting this woman is. Look up JammiDodger on youtube. He can tell you his side. Doesn’t the person who is living the life matter at all? Jamie is very happy. |
Energetic-NovaDec 6, 2020 12:03 AM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Reyliix said: Energetic-Nova said: I am 30. I had a lot of trans friends in my friendship group in high school. We were all into BL manga. Almost everyone in my friendship group was queer. Tho, not all were out. [Ty] came out first while a teenager about 16 years ago, even earlier to his parents. He is a very happy person. His parents accepted him. My high school friend group consisted of 2 bi trans men. 1 gay trans man. 8 bisexual women. 3 cis gay men (I knew an additional 5 and was friends with them outside the group) . 1 bisexual guy. 1 bi curious dude who just enjoyed a good time. 3 ace girls. No lesbians. But gained trans women friends in college. There is a different phenomenon: queer kids find each other and hang out somehow. And the high LGBTQ present in Animanga community especially if you are all bounding over BL and Yuri manga. We did mostly play smash bros tho. 😂 And we also had a GSA which more instantly connected us all. But one of thosw friends I had since Elementary. Idk it is pretty weird I guess. This supposed phenomenon is only being documented by transphobic parents. They aren’t asking their kids. Prob the biggest flaw in their theory. :/ Parents think the other queer kids made their kid queer instead of assuming the more logical thing... Their kid found friends who would also accept them. Also if anything spread this way in my group it was bisexuality. 😂 like why wouldnt most of the bi girls have also been trans men if this was how it worked? this is so cute ahah most of my friends in the bl community I know of ( just online though not irl ) are queer Ahh yeah it was like this IRL.... it took a long time for some to come out tho. I prob would have thought half my High school friends were straight if I didn’t check in after high school was over. But I guess we were all supportive and in GSA for a reason. Kinda hoping that the myth of fujos being mostly straight dies... it hasnt been my experience... |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| If people were never told to believe that you can have a gender change, then none of this would've happened. Trans people never existed many years ago, not even in hiding because that's an impossibility and fantasies are only fantasies (most kids have fantasies of being the other gender, that's just human nature and inquisitivity). They only existed from the moment surgery was a thing, that can change a person's appearance into whatever they wanted; personality, appearance, a few words and roles have no gender. Everyone as humans wished they were different or were someone else. Women "wanted" to be men when there were suffragettes so that they could vote, have a job, and so forth, not because they wanted a penis and to be a man, they just wanted the same rights and so had to pretend they were men. It's all indoctrination: if a girl likes things that other girls don't but the boys around her do, then she MUST be trans. Technically if you're really trans then you'd be okay looking mediocre as the opposite gender or have small genitals, but a lot of trans people who go through all surgery seem really vain just to get that plastic surgery look, and telling them off for needlessly having nose surgery is "transphobic" now. I will never understand people that want to change their appearance and calling that all of these positive words. Is breast surgery for women socially okay to get larger breasts to be more female? There is a limit, even women who want to be more female are insecure but they're not going to get rewards and free surgery, or give themself a new, more feminine name since they can do that with privileges. Dress up however, act however, like whatever, but don't have surgery to be someone who you were never meant to be. Nobody is born wrong. |
BunilleDec 7, 2020 4:33 AM
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| Wikipedia isn't an accurate source of information. And I read this years ago and nothing there mentions genuine trans people until the 1900s, only people who have different gender roles and appearances, which does not imply transgenderism. I mentioned "Records of women who passed as men in order to vote, fight, or study during times when these things were forbidden for women." for a reason, that ain't transgender. Spiritualism isn't also transgenderism. All of this history just implies that gender roles are being abolished because men cannot do woman things and women cannot do man things. |
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Oeufhbpi said: Women demanding the right to vote isn't gender dysphoric though, so it makes no sense.@Bunille Gender dysphoria is something more than just defying gender roles though. Also, wikipedia references its sources so its not that bad of a source but you could just do a quick 2 min google search I guess. |
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Bunille said: If people were never told to believe that you can have a gender change, then none of this would've happened. Trans people never existed many years ago, not even in hiding because that's an impossibility and fantasies are only fantasies (most kids have fantasies of being the other gender, that's just human nature and inquisitivity). They only existed from the moment surgery was a thing, that can change a person's appearance into whatever they wanted; personality, appearance, a few words and roles have no gender. Everyone as humans wished they were different or were someone else. Women "wanted" to be men when there were suffragettes so that they could vote, have a job, and so forth, not because they wanted a penis and to be a man, they just wanted the same rights and so had to pretend they were men. It's all indoctrination: if a girl likes things that other girls don't but the boys around her do, then she MUST be trans. Technically if you're really trans then you'd be okay looking mediocre as the opposite gender or have small genitals, but a lot of trans people who go through all surgery seem really vain just to get that plastic surgery look, and telling them off for needlessly having nose surgery is "transphobic" now. I will never understand people that want to change their appearance and calling that all of these positive words. Is breast surgery for women socially okay to get larger breasts to be more female? There is a limit, even women who want to be more female are insecure but they're not going to get rewards and free surgery, or give themself a new, more feminine name since they can do that with privileges. Dress up however, act however, like whatever, but don't have surgery to be someone who you were never meant to be. Nobody is born wrong. This isn't very coherent but I'll try to tackle the main "idea". Indeed, post-surgery trans did not exist before surgery. I'd add that surgeons didn't exist before surgery either. Are surgeons people who are going against nature? If someone is birthed with a defect, then surely nature wants him to do instead of being saved by a surgeon, no? If nobody's born wrong, then fixing siamese babies or some kid with 8 fingers is morally wrong, no? Christians didn't exist before christianity. What about them? I'm glad you can see suffragettes didn't want a penis, but then how can't you see trans do? Also suffragettes didn't exist a thousand years ago so I'm not sure why they're better than trans when that's exactly the reason you give to explain why you're ranting about trans people. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Bunille said: Oeufhbpi said: Women demanding the right to vote isn't gender dysphoric though, so it makes no sense.@Bunille Gender dysphoria is something more than just defying gender roles though. Also, wikipedia references its sources so its not that bad of a source but you could just do a quick 2 min google search I guess. LMAO it WAS massively gender disphoric, since everybody back then knew that women didn't have the brains to chose a political leader. Just like wanting a gender reassignment nowadays seems wrong for normies. See where I'm going there? It's so easy to twist everything to see it from your PoV and fit your world's vision, Bunille. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Ghemotoc said: Being born a completely healthy male/female/intersex person is not a birth defect and people should stop seeing it as one.Bunille said: If people were never told to believe that you can have a gender change, then none of this would've happened. Trans people never existed many years ago, not even in hiding because that's an impossibility and fantasies are only fantasies (most kids have fantasies of being the other gender, that's just human nature and inquisitivity). They only existed from the moment surgery was a thing, that can change a person's appearance into whatever they wanted; personality, appearance, a few words and roles have no gender. Everyone as humans wished they were different or were someone else. Women "wanted" to be men when there were suffragettes so that they could vote, have a job, and so forth, not because they wanted a penis and to be a man, they just wanted the same rights and so had to pretend they were men. It's all indoctrination: if a girl likes things that other girls don't but the boys around her do, then she MUST be trans. Technically if you're really trans then you'd be okay looking mediocre as the opposite gender or have small genitals, but a lot of trans people who go through all surgery seem really vain just to get that plastic surgery look, and telling them off for needlessly having nose surgery is "transphobic" now. I will never understand people that want to change their appearance and calling that all of these positive words. Is breast surgery for women socially okay to get larger breasts to be more female? There is a limit, even women who want to be more female are insecure but they're not going to get rewards and free surgery, or give themself a new, more feminine name since they can do that with privileges. Dress up however, act however, like whatever, but don't have surgery to be someone who you were never meant to be. Nobody is born wrong. This isn't very coherent but I'll try to tackle the main "idea". Indeed, post-surgery trans did not exist before surgery. I'd add that surgeons didn't exist before surgery either. Are surgeons people who are going against nature? If someone is birthed with a defect, then surely nature wants him to do instead of being saved by a surgeon, no? If nobody's born wrong, then fixing siamese babies or some kid with 8 fingers is morally wrong, no? Christians didn't exist before christianity. What about them? I'm glad you can see suffragettes didn't want a penis, but then how can't you see trans do? Also suffragettes didn't exist a thousand years ago so I'm not sure why they're better than trans when that's exactly the reason you give to explain why you're ranting about trans people. People don't define gender properly so it isn't coherent how it works. Personality and so forth doesn't mean you are another gender, so the only way the world will see them as another gender is by having surgery. Women can be tomboys and still be female, but women wouldn't have top surgery if they believed they were women apart from cosmetic reasons if they were not trans. "Nobody's born wrong" is the truth, albeit a bit horrible. If people were born with defects, then that's fate. If they were born with abnormalities then it's okay to fix them as long as it will help long-term. Intersex people are realising that it's okay to be human and don't want their genitalia mutilated. They can live intersex with no chance of death as long as they get mental help when needed. Nothing physical needs to be done because they need to be mentally told it's okay to be them. Suffragettes are not better than anyone, but they are human and at least understand who they are. |
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| @Bunille Once again, just like you know that everybody's born the right sex, people a hundred years ago and for most of mankind's history knew that women were too dumb and irresponsible to vote. That was common sense for them. If sufragettes knew how they felt better than the rest of the world (wich makes sense), why do you think trans don't? You do what you want with that but I don't really understand why you'd give any fucks about what kind of plastic surgery people undergo tbh as it has literally no influence on society. |
DeathkoDec 7, 2020 6:17 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| @Ghemotoc I don't know why you always have it out for me. I know you like attacking me, it's a nice hobby. I was talking about gender roles the whole time. Different gender roles =/ gender dysphoria, in my opinion, but it somehow equals it. No need to get haughty, start laughing, and underlining words. People can get ill: fate is fate. Even if they get cured, they still were ill and that is a part of them that you cannot deny. If someone was "accidentally" born 100% the opposite gender of what they wanted to be, that doesn't mean they were never the gender they were at birth. Nature is natural for a reason and there's no excuse to deny nature. It happened. "Right" or "wrong" is totally subjective. Good to know you're for plastic surgery (probably because women are dumb so they need to look good for the men amiright). So, you're telling me people are transgender because you're a misogynist? You really like to let me know that people knew that all women were dumb. Men can't be dumb and so that's why they got to vote... oh my. Suffragettes didn't feel better than other people, they felt equal for once. Oppressed people don't automatically mean that they're better people (and some trans people do feel like they're better than anyone else). It's nice knowing you. @Oeufhbpi because gender roles are the cultural norm. Without roles, gender as a social construct doesn't exist because there would be no dysphoria and people won't feel more like a woman just because they like something that's stereotypically feminine. |
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| @Bunille I don't even remember posting anything to you before but okay, if that makes you feel better. If what you understood from that is that I actually believe women are too dumb to vote, this discussion isn't going anywhere. I believe women know better than me how they feel, just like trans know better than you how they feel, despite what the contemporary "common sense" says. Big brains moment, I know. You seem to have some kind of random hatred towards plastic surgery. I can't say I love it and a gf brought it up once, much to my dismay. But others can do wtf they want with their bodies. I'm not policing tattoos, hair styles and piercings either. Why should I? |
DeathkoDec 7, 2020 6:47 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Ghemotoc said: I remember, and that's why I know you're a person that likes to indirectly mention anyone you disagree with. You didn't even successfully troll but let's not talk more about that.@Bunille I don't even remember posting anything to you before but okay, if that makes you feel better. If what you understood from that is that I actually believe women are too dumb to vote, this discussion isn't going anywhere. I believe women know better than me how they feel, just like trans know better than you how they feel, despite what the contemporary "common sense" says. Big brains moment, I know. You seem to have some kind of random hatred towards plastic surgery. I can't say I love it and a gf brought it up once, much to my dismay. But others can do wtf they want with their bodies. I'm not policing tattoos, hair styles and piercings either. Why should I? Why did you underline it if you don't personally agree that woman are dumb then? You mentioned it in two posts so you really HAD to mention it. Plastic surgery is for vanity. That's the only reason I dislike it. I'm for surgeries to reduce suffering, but if mental help can be done instead of surgery, then that should be done instead. Some surgeries are irreversible. @Oeufhbpi They are still doing it to an extent. You wouldn't see a trans male with female clothing in the ratio that you'd see them in male clothing, so it does play a part. If it didn't that wouldn't be true. A lot of being trans is ambiguous because human nature doesn't have a gender to most things. |
BunilleDec 7, 2020 7:03 AM
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Bunille said: Ghemotoc said: I remember, and that's why I know you're a person that likes to indirectly mention anyone you disagree with. You didn't even successfully troll but let's not talk more about that.@Bunille I don't even remember posting anything to you before but okay, if that makes you feel better. If what you understood from that is that I actually believe women are too dumb to vote, this discussion isn't going anywhere. I believe women know better than me how they feel, just like trans know better than you how they feel, despite what the contemporary "common sense" says. Big brains moment, I know. You seem to have some kind of random hatred towards plastic surgery. I can't say I love it and a gf brought it up once, much to my dismay. But others can do wtf they want with their bodies. I'm not policing tattoos, hair styles and piercings either. Why should I? Why did you underline it if you don't personally agree that woman are dumb then? You mentioned it in two posts so you really HAD to mention it. Plastic surgery is for vanity. That's the only reason I dislike it. I'm for surgeries to reduce suffering, but if mental help can be done instead of surgery, then that should be done instead. Some surgeries are irreversible. I underlined it in two posts because of this: "Women demanding the right to vote isn't gender dysphoric though, so it makes no sense." What I underlined WAS common sense a century ago. Women asking for the right to vote made no sense back then, as they were considered too dumdum for that and it was the man's role. This is exactly the same situation. People asking for the right to change sex don't make sense to you because you consider that someone who's born with a pp should stick to a pp. That is common sense to you. I'm not sure why you'd wish to anyone uncomfortable in their body to stick that way when surgery can fix it, but whatever. Now my question is: how in the fuck does someone changing sex has any kind of influence on your life anyway? I can understand misogynists screeching when women asked the right to vote, thinking it would fuck off society, because voting does have an impact on everybody. But what people have between their legs does not, in any way or shape, change anything to your daily life. Nobody's asking you to get a pp. So even if you wanna stick to "common sense" (Earth being flat once was common sense), then why do you even mind? Wouldn't common sense dictate you to mind your own business since it doesn't affect you? Do you believe trans people are gonna be the downfall of mankind or what? I mostly ask because I used to have an excellent trans friend here who was the chillest person, and it bothers me to see random nerds who never interacted with one bully them for no reason. |
DeathkoDec 7, 2020 7:10 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| @Ghemotoc That still doesn't make sense. How do females being called dumb and them wanting to be treated equally to men equate to them BEING men? Yes, they might've been called stupid back then, but how does this relate to being transgender? It's common sense (you're the one who brought up that word) because it's nature. Science. Nature makes sense. Nature has never not made sense. If a random typhoon appeared from nowhere, there would be a cause and it would make sense no matter how weird it seemed. Lol no, any time I mention something like this it's always about surgery, they can be cis or whatever. I think trans people are swell as well, as long as they're not a bad person or use it as a personality trait when it isn't (like anyone with anything can be). I don't like people modifying and mutilating their bodies (which is never natural, even if the mindset may be). Attack that reasoning all you want. I also mentioned mental help... they should get mental help. If therapy treatments aren't working for them right now, then rewrite a new therapy procedure that can be done specifically for them. Edit: I'd really not like to debate on a thread lol when I'm trying to work it out with you. |
BunilleDec 7, 2020 7:47 AM
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