Joatiti said: Why should I believe in score manipulators? What I saw was a score triggering people and then users being silenced Then don't believe it. What you saw isn't what happened. Users vote brigaded and made alt accounts to boost a certain show, effectively letting a youtuber control the top 10. It's not good for the site if people can just tell their audiences to vote in a certain way just to get the top list to be how they want it to be. If you want to believe that is us silencing people (which it isn't), then that's your choice. |
| People: Still talking in circular pattern about volunteer, youtube, and general people who say that score doesn't matter while still bringing up Gintama/FMA Me: Fight alone for justice to LN score. |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
Joatiti said: bibi-fan said: So many wins here, but I'm also just particularly glad about pingu in the city getting nerfed Yay censorship!!! I don't really think it's censorship. I mean, it's not really like people's opinions are being stifled. Furthermore I know a friend who ranked pingu ten out of ten just for the meme, I don't think thats a valid score. He himself said the anime was mediocre. Plus, from my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) the most of what is being nerfed in terms of votes are troll accounts? (Or votes from a very specific time period.) |
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Joatiti said: bibi-fan said: So many wins here, but I'm also just particularly glad about pingu in the city getting nerfed Yay censorship!!! Censorship to bots and fake account? Yay!! |
Joatiti said: Ardanaz said: Then don't believe it. What you saw isn't what happened. Users vote brigaded and made alt accounts to boost a certain show, effectively letting a youtuber control the top 10. It's not good for the site if people can just tell their audiences to vote in a certain way just to get the top list to be how they want it to be. If you want to believe that is us silencing people (which it isn't), then that's your choice. Sure, It's not silencing, I'm just blind and saw the score change almost 2 values. One question, how can an user know if any of his contribution is being counted or dismissed as a "bot"? Why can I know if you are counting my votes? Yeah scores change all the time as more people watch it. That's expected behaviour. I don't know. Nobody knows what exactly the algorithm is because it would make it easier to get around if people did know. I would be very surprised if your account would be flagged as illegitimate though, so I wouldn't worry about it. Joatiti said: Sure, there are those votes, but Real votes were discount because the score hasn't good for the moderators It was because of the vote brigading. If these people are legit accounts, their score will count. It's mentioned in the OP. |
Joatiti said: Hrybami said: yes, they were all fake accounts, no real users gave it a 10. And established users create new accounts just so they could give it 1s. Censorship to bots and fake account? Yay!! Do you seriously believe that? Do you wanna buy a bridge I have to sell? Reading serves a purpose in life. You can read the OP and your question will pretty much all get answered. Shortly, Real users scores are counted. The algorithm only exclude fake account and bots account. It's completely unrelated on how you rate your anime, it only verify if your account is real and if it is then your score is counted. I thought it was not that complicated. |
Joatiti said: bibi-fan said: I don't really think it's censorship. I mean, it's not really like people's opinions are being stifled. Furthermore I know a friend who ranked pingu ten out of ten just for the meme, I don't think thats a valid score. He himself said the anime was mediocre. Plus, from my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) the most of what is being nerfed in terms of votes are troll accounts? (Or votes from a very specific time period.) Sure, there are those votes, but Real votes were discount because the score hasn't good for the moderators Just curious, how is the score bad for the moderators? (Also, on a side note, I'm now def going to watch the hot topic anime because of all this drama. This whole thing being the last straw XD.) |
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Ardanaz said: What you saw isn't what happened. Users vote brigaded and made alt accounts to boost a certain show, effectively letting a youtuber control the top 10. It's certainly strange how people take issue with the concept of MAL staff "manipulating" scores, but yet are totally fine with YouTubers exercising their large influence to dictate the top 10. And before anyone else chimes in, talking about how people are doing it of their "own volition" - think of it this way: You like the idea of Nux and Noble directing traffic to MAL right? This means that this wouldn't have happened without their intervention. You cannot simultaneously claim that people are doing this of their own freewill and say that MAL should in fact be thanking Nux and Noble at the same time. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| One more angle to bring up about all the score adjustments... There are a handful of MAL users who are what you might call statistics geeks, who like to scrape all the vote stats and play with the numbers to figure out things like which animes have the highest and lowest standard deviations in their vote scores, or other arcane and amusing things such as which animes have the highest percentage of '8' votes. As one such person I had observed how botted/brigaded votes can really screw up the results. I would even say that such techniques can be a useful tool in identifying which animes have been targeted thusly. All that aside, as this was playing out I was much anticipating all these illegitimate scores getting weeded out of the system so that we can get good clean data for doing more in-depth statistical analysis. But in order to do that properly would require access to the "adjusted" vote counts. At present these are not being made available and what I think I'm reading here is that these adjusted counts aren't going to be made available. Is that the plan for the foreseeable future? As one of the aforementioned statistics geeks, I would find this disappointing, as it means no access to the good, clean data I would prefer to have and will have to settle for making do with the unadjusted vote counts. |
A møøse once bit my sister... |
fanatashewarudo said: I think the PR is strangely passive aggressive here coming from a business but more effort to make things fair is always appreciated, I hope people got paid for working hard, maybe through all the click money you should have made recently ha. Pray tell, what PR coming from MAL was passive aggressive? I'm looking at the official MAL twitter and I'm not seeing anything that could remotely be described as passive aggressive. If you're referring to Shymander's tweets, then I will point you to two pieces of information: https://myanimelist.net/about.php?go=team#forum_moderator A quick look at the staff list at the bottom will bring up the statement: "All views expressed by the moderators are their own and do not represent the views of MyAnimeList, LLC in any way." Now then, should the statements of a MAL staff member be reflective of MAL itself? If that's the case, what you are effectively advocating for is MAL to censor the opinions of its moderator, and I don't think you're a particularly big fan of censorship, now are you? Now, please stop equating statements made by a PR member on their own time with MAL's own official PR statements. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| Hopefully the series which really need this change will be adjusted, I will see for those series |
Joatiti said: I bet this account is saw as legit and all those scores are counted https://anime.plus/ErinaNakiri1/list,anime What a joke! Why are you so upset about that? Weren't you like all against censorship just a moment ago? |
Nice triple post |
It's a shame that the top light novels are now even more dependent on popularity than they were before, but that's just how it is, and the best solution is to get more people reading and listing light novels. There are already far more series with high member counts than there used to be, though, and the more there are the better the scores will become. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Joatiti said: Why were people upset about darling in the franxxx, goblin Slayer, Shield Hero (#believewoman), names in MHA, birthdays in MHA? It's all the same People upset about a cartoon? LMAOOOO |
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| so what anime besides the top 50 that have their score adjusted so far ? |
Joatiti said: Hrybami said: Why are you so upset about that? Weren't you like all against censorship just a moment ago? Still am, just pointing out how big a fraud MAL moderators are. People can have acounts like that, but if it's about giving 10s to IR, "slow down son, We don't want it above 8" How is this a fraud in anything? Plus, it's not as if all 10/10 were removed. Only score originated from the brigade was excluded. On the other hand, anybody with a legit account can input their own score as they want. In fact, you can even take part on the brigade/meme if you want. Nobody will ban or delete your account for paticipating to the brigade. Your score will just not take into account for the weighted score of the anime. Now what it says is that everybody can score whatever how they feel like. The feature for scoring your anime isn't disabled. Only the score from the brigade, spam account, bots, fake account aren't weighted in the final score. But they still can vote if they want to. (it's just useless if the purpose is the manipulate the rating) Real users who've participated in the brigade see all their other score weighted as usual, but only the score for IR isn't taking into account for the system until the algorithm decide that the score is real again. Meaning that you have to use the MAL feature as intended if you want your score to count. People can just have account how they want. It's their list, there is no restriction as long as your account is legit and you use the feature as intended to, there's no problem. It's just special measure for IR temporarily implemented which can identify if your score for IR is part of the brigade or not. |
kuuderes_shadow said: For lesser series you will be lucky to even have 300 people rating it. I mean for example look at here.It's a shame that the top light novels are now even more dependent on popularity than they were before, but that's just how it is, and the best solution is to get more people reading and listing light novels. There are already far more series with high member counts than there used to be, though, and the more there are the better the scores will become. https://myanimelist.net/manga/67259/Hyakuren_no_Haou_to_Seiyaku_no_Valkyria/stats The score are rendered moot now and it is series that have active English translation. Sure is LN are start to expanding right now but I doubt it will even reach 1/10 of what manga is getting. PS: Still looking for someone to join my cause. |
| Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
kuuderes_shadow said: It's a shame that the top light novels are now even more dependent on popularity than they were before, but that's just how it is, and the best solution is to get more people reading and listing light novels. There are already far more series with high member counts than there used to be, though, and the more there are the better the scores will become. Since when were scores dependent on popularity? If they were then wouldn't anime such as death note or manga like shingeki no kyojin be way higher? There are anime and manga that are not as popular and they have high scores. Some examples would be the March comes in like a lion and Vagabond. Popularity can help somewhat. I mean if you look at the amount of ones Steins Gate has, it has more than Attack on Titan Season 3 Part 2 yet Steins Gate percentage of ones is lower. However, I don't completely agree that "popular" anime and manga are dominating the scores. |
Joatiti said: MrTacobell said: if you keep on denying that there weren't bots and a vote brigade you will simply get a ban dude. I never DENIED THAT THERE WERE BOTS, LEARN HOW TO READ. I said that certainly there were ALSO real users getting their rating chopped just because it was the "wrong score" Again, READ. it's ok if you have to read it 5 times, but read it It seems that you did not read all the information in this thread. Kineta already explained, if you aren't a bot and if the system notice that you use the site normally then your score votes will be valid. I don't know why you are complaining when that has been explained several times. |
PipeFeb 14, 2020 11:20 AM
| Decent update to the rating system. Far from perfect though. Would be good if MAL figured out how to deal with people who excessively rate everything they run into as a 10/9/8 (Good, Meh, Bad). |
 |
dewwm said: In August last year there are massive upvoting on lesser member manga. As you can see from opening post here one of it's victim is Nogi Wakaba who are hit the hardest and inflated really high until it get third place or something. The thing is because of that there are some of legitimate user acting on behave to counterbalance the score.kuuderes_shadow said: It's a shame that the top light novels are now even more dependent on popularity than they were before, but that's just how it is, and the best solution is to get more people reading and listing light novels. There are already far more series with high member counts than there used to be, though, and the more there are the better the scores will become. Since when were scores dependent on popularity? If they were then wouldn't anime such as death note or manga like shingeki no kyojin be way higher? There are anime and manga that are not as popular and they have high scores. Some examples would be the March comes in like a lion and Vagabond. Popularity can help somewhat. I mean if you look at the amount of ones Steins Gate has, it has more than Attack on Titan Season 3 Part 2 yet Steins Gate percentage of ones is lower. However, I don't completely agree that "popular" anime and manga are dominating the scores. Long story short because right now bot activity cease to be relevance there bring new problem. The problem is legitimate user that start crusading as an act to counterbalance score still have their vote count. Because of that since LN is mostly small populated with no more than 500 user score at most even for rather famous series one 1/10 have more value if you compare it to manga which have 10x user base but less bot activity during that time. That's why popularity in this case matter. 1/10 out of 500 cannot be compared to 1/10 out of 5000. The impact is visible right now with most of LN(which I keep tab on) losing 0.20 - 0.30 point. |
NeoAnkaraFeb 14, 2020 11:15 AM
| Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
NeoAnkara said: dewwm said: In August last year there are massive upvoting on lesser member manga. As you can see from opening post here one of it's victim is Nogi Wakaba who are hit the hardest and inflated really high until it get third place or something. The thing is because of that there are some of legitimate user acting on behave to counterbalance the score.Since when were scores dependent on popularity? If they were then wouldn't anime such as death note or manga like shingeki no kyojin be way higher? There are anime and manga that are not as popular and they have high scores. Some examples would be the March comes in like a lion and Vagabond. Popularity can help somewhat. I mean if you look at the amount of ones Steins Gate has, it has more than Attack on Titan Season 3 Part 2 yet Steins Gate percentage of ones is lower. However, I don't completely agree that "popular" anime and manga are dominating the scores. Long story short because right now bot activity cease to be relevance there bring new problem. The problem is legitimate user that start crusading as an act to counterbalance score still have their vote count. Because of that since LN is mostly small populated with no more than 500 user score at most even for rather famous series one 1/10 have more value if you compare it to manga which have 10x user base but less bot activity during that time. That's why popularity in this case matter. 1/10 out of 500 cannot be compared to 1/10 out of 5000. The impact is visible right now with most of LN(which I keep tab on) losing 0.20 - 0.30 point. Well, you do have a point. I have seen some series with fewer members get their scores significantly lowered all of a sudden. I'd see popularity as an advantage rather than being a certain chance to be rated high. |
SkullKn1ghtFeb 14, 2020 11:32 AM
| Props to the mods/admins. It's about time something was done about troll voting and brigading |
ActionBear said: Hrybami said: How is this a fraud in anything? Plus, it's not as if all 10/10 were removed. Only score originated from the brigade was excluded. On the other hand, anybody with a legit account can input their own score as they want. In fact, you can even take part on the brigade/meme if you want. Nobody will ban or delete your account for paticipating to the brigade. Your score will just not take into account for the weighted score of the anime. Now what it says is that everybody can score whatever how they feel like. The feature for scoring your anime isn't disabled. Only the score from the brigade, spam account, bots, fake account aren't weighted in the final score. But they still can vote if they want to. (it's just useless if the purpose is the manipulate the rating) Real users who've participated in the brigade see all their other score weighted as usual, but only the score for IR isn't taking into account for the system until the algorithm decide that the score is real again. Meaning that you have to use the MAL feature as intended if you want your score to count. People can just have account how they want. It's their list, there is no restriction as long as your account is legit and you use the feature as intended to, there's no problem. It's just special measure for IR temporarily implemented which can identify if your score for IR is part of the brigade or not. And how do they arbitrarily decide that lol sounds like bs Who knows. The nature of the algorithm is kept secret in order to prevent trolls to counter it. |
Mienus said: Ardanaz said: What you saw isn't what happened. Users vote brigaded and made alt accounts to boost a certain show, effectively letting a youtuber control the top 10. It's certainly strange how people take issue with the concept of MAL staff "manipulating" scores, but yet are totally fine with YouTubers exercising their large influence to dictate the top 10. And before anyone else chimes in, talking about how people are doing it of their "own volition" - think of it this way: You like the idea of Nux and Noble directing traffic to MAL right? This means that this wouldn't have happened without their intervention. You cannot simultaneously claim that people are doing this of their own freewill and say that MAL should in fact be thanking Nux and Noble at the same time. I love it how not even Immahnoob tries to tackle what you're saying. Your arguments in this thread are greatly formulated. |
Fortune favours the bold!  |
Joatiti said: Hrybami said: Why are you so upset about that? Weren't you like all against censorship just a moment ago? Still am, just pointing out how big a fraud MAL moderators are. People can have acounts like that, but if it's about giving 10s to IR, "slow down son, We don't want it above 8" Even though this fix has been in the works for 6 months. And now that its here it is site wide, not just IR. Unfair_Pally said: Oh, so that's why Ishuzoku Reviewers got be the number 1 anime for this season. Fucking assholes those Youtubers, imma find them and leave them a dislike and a hateful comment. I'll be doing my part. They never got it to rank 1. It was a shopped image. Best it ever got to from brigading was rank 2. |
StrayfeFeb 14, 2020 1:48 PM
| 𝘔𝘢𝘥𝘢𝘰 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘬. 𝘈 𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘢 𝘣𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘶𝘯𝘨𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘦𝘴. 𝘐𝘵 𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘬 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘥𝘢𝘺 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬. |
ActionBear said: Hrybami said: voodoo must be only explanationWho knows. The nature of the algorithm is kept secret in order to prevent trolls to counter it. Yeah you guessed right! MAL is run by Shamans. And it's hands down 1000x better than this whole brigade orchestrated by 12 years old mobs. |
Syrup- said: Decent update to the rating system. Far from perfect though. Would be good if MAL figured out how to deal with people who excessively rate everything they run into as a 10/9/8 (Good, Meh, Bad). There's nothing wrong at enjoying the stuff you watch If you're unlucky/not clever enough to end up giving bad scores, it's your own fault. You don't have to denigrate people that have a different rating system than yours either |
ActionBear said: Hrybami said: Yeah you guessed right! MAL is run by Shamans. And it's hands down 1000x better than this whole brigade orchestrated by 12 years old mobs. Oh Shit son you know Billy witchdoctor dotcom can you raise a chicken for me he ded Hm, you should probably ask a web developer for that. |
NinSheetDude said: Ok... 1. Why? Score is just a superlative thing anyway, why does it matter? 2. Honestly, I don't know if I can trust a new system that removes possible legit scores. The whole thing just seems silly. Edit: I might as well ask, but how do I know if my reviews are basically shadowblocked from the global ratings? Is it like if you have an IP address of a proxy site it triggers it? Please tell me that isn't the case because if it is, that's a terrible system. Scores matter because they give you an idea on if it is worth giving a series a try. I'm not saying anything ranked low should be dismissed nor am I saying that MAL scores are definitive. You might have a completely different list from MAL rankings based on opinion but that doesn't mean that scores don't matter at all. There are a lot of series that I enjoyed and probably never would have watched if it weren't for the rankings and there definitely are some that left me disappointed. However, just because I didn't find a series enjoyable or if I found a lower-ranked series to be better than another doesn't mean that scores are pointless. Once again, it gives you an idea of whether a series might be good or not and its for you to decide whether you enjoyed it. MAL scores try to be as legit as possible based on data and people's genuine opinion. Someone telling their 1 million subscribers to upvote a show is not a genuine opinion and makes a fiasco of the rankings. There might be people that actually liked interspecies reviewers but I doubt it's the majority. |
SkullKn1ghtFeb 14, 2020 4:44 PM
| This is great news, i'm really glad to see some changes to MAL. Hopefully this continues in the future, great work @Kina and staff :) |
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NinSheetDude said: Fair its truly far from it. Its funny cause those who defend this new change might not have their own scores counted. MAL doesn't want to lose face but in doing so we have no idea who or what is affected and to what degree. We are basically floating in space for the sake of A scoring system. Those who are for it could also be harmed while those not for it know its not cool to unsubscribe thousands of accounts from even being considered as part of the system. Yeah, I understand that now, and reviews are good as a whole, but I'm more worried about non-troll accounts being marked as troll accounts without them even knowing. I don't think that's fair. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
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