Why does most anime look similar to the same four or five styles vs Western animation where everyone has their own style?
patchworkpants said: Alpha_Druid said: Hmm, sounds like this thread is disguised as an excuse for you to wank western shows then. If you want to interpret it that way that's fine. I don't really care what some weirdly hostile random on the internet thinks. The evidence that this isn't the case is pretty obvious in the fact that I've only really talked about specific western cartoons in any detail when they've been brought up by other people. Again. I love all good animation from all over the world. I have no bias towards any specific geographical region. That seems to be your issue, not mine. So, you made this thread to discuss anime artstyle and western artstyle but you yourself admit that you talk off-topic related subjects such as animation and story. That sounds like western animation fanboyism to me. Also, I only pointed out that animation and artstyle aren't the same. But, you seem to be fixated on animation for some reason. |
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| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga_iconography read this... |
Shoganai- said: Alpha_Druid said: [quote there's no such thing as Dogshit artsyle's, you've sunken wayy too deep into just anime that you cant appreciate other styles of animation anymore. Maybe, maybe not. You don't know me. Lol. Also, there ARE dogshit artstyles. Rick and Morty, Futurama, Simpsons, Family Guy, etc. Eugh!. Don't need to appreciate as they make me puke if I look at them. Also, cartoons with boneless characters, like adventure time, gravity falls, steven universe, etc. Hahaha. Also, I don't dislike all western animation. The 2d animated Disney movies were good. So was Justice league, the original teen titans, etc, even if they didn't had the more detailed art like in anime. From what i see you like realistic animation and therefore shit on other styles of art, not cool man [/quote] Well someone gotta shit on the shitty cartoon styles. |
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| There's no "four of five styles". Where did you get that number? Or did you just pulled it out of butt? Anyway, there's definitely styles in anime, that goes without saying. That's how we've defined art movements throughout history (e.g Cubism, impressionism, etc), and both anime and Western animation have certain styles that are more influential than others and so are more prevalent. For instance, obviously you have Tezuka for anime and Disney for Cartoons. Can't name a huge amount of people, but there's Miyazaki for anime and Hanna-Barbera for cartoons (pretty much the makers of half of my childhood cartoons); Dezaki and Gendy Tartakokovsky and so on... Why bother pitting these two animation industries against each other under a clearly wrong premise? |
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| It depends on what Studio is creating the anime. Different Studio, different art style Some studios can have multiple art styles, However, Some wont. |
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| you clearly have watched nowhere near enough anime to make statements like this there is an abundance of styles in the medium |
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| I dunno what you are on. Kyoto Animation has made Haruhi, Lucky Start, Nichijou, Hibike Euphonium, Koe no Katchi All extremely distinct. Sunrise Inc. made Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, Gintama, Accel World, Danshi Nichijou, Love Live, all very unique. Madhouse has made Death Note, One Punch Man, NGNL, Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo, Hajime no Ippo, Chihayafuru with absolutely nothing in common. And I am just scratching the surface. Studios like Sunrise, SHAFT, KyoAni, J.C., PA, A-1, I.G have their more preferred style as well when they work on originals or novels (where the work on the visuals and styles from the scratch). It's the manga or VN adaptations that restrict them usually. But even in such cases they show a lot of creativity. I gave you some good examples. Throw me Simpsons, South Park, Sponge Bob etc. with Shrek, Monster Inc. Despicable Me. You won't be able convince me that Japan has fewer styles. |
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| For the same reason all classical music sounds the same. Those who don't have the ear for it would not understand, while those who do can recognize styles and the composer on first hearing. |
| I don't think OP is serious anymore when he tried to ignore @Phokat's awesome chart in Post #15. I mean, those are the most popular anime(s) and none of them looks similar. You've already got 8 different animation style (not counting the artist's own) with that chart alone. Consider what many other anime can do. Or what? Do you need 1000+ charts like that to be convinced? And guys, don't go agree with his opinion like "Yeah, what you said is true about anime doesn't have variations, but..." I've watched 900+ anime and still have trouble thinking up ones with "similar" animation style. Well, maybe except some of KyoAni's works which look like they take place in the same universe (but that's obviously because it's the same studio). You're getting too much negative replies from anime fanboys? Well, you posted this on MyAnimeList, what did you expect? Try posting on MyCartoonList (if there is one) and things might be different. |
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Renkini said: I don't think OP is serious anymore when he tried to ignore @Phokat's awesome chart in Post #15. I mean, those are the most popular anime(s) and none of them looks similar. You've already got 8 different animation style (not counting the artist's own) with that chart alone. Consider what many other anime can do. Or what? Do you need 1000+ charts like that to be convinced? And guys, don't go agree with his opinion like "Yeah, what you said is true about anime doesn't have variations, but..." I've watched 900+ anime and still have trouble thinking up ones with "similar" animation style. Well, maybe except some of KyoAni's works which look like they take place in the same universe (but that's obviously because it's the same studio). You're getting too much negative replies from anime fanboys? Well, you posted this on MyAnimeList, what did you expect? Try posting on MyCartoonList (if there is one) and things might be different. I was expecting fanboyism, yes, and I wasn't disappointed. It's not a problem to me. You pointing out that more than five styles exist doesn't contradict anything I have said. The chart in post 15 shows that there are 12 anime series out there that have their own take on one of the 4 or 5 common styles. Which is great. I already knew that you did get anime that looked a bit different. I was just wondering why so much of it doesn't. |
patchworkpantsJan 7, 2020 5:27 AM
mecharobot said: For the same reason all classical music sounds the same. Those who don't have the ear for it would not understand, while those who do can recognize styles and the composer on first hearing. 1. I didn't say all anime looks the same. 2. I have seen tons of animation, including dozens of anime series and hundreds of anime trailers. It's one of my favourite artistic mediums. 3. I haven't listened to a ton of classical music but I don't think it all sounds the same at all. |
Lol damn...how did I not notice this!? This bothers me now (and I love Star and GF but DAMN....) still better than Adventure Time's art though...stupid noodle people I'm also starting to LOATHE CGI people in Western Animation because they also look way too similar...or is that just me? |
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| That's simply not true. Just because a lot of anime use similar stylistic tropes doesn't mean they look similar. Anime varies a lot from era to era, from studio to studio and from artist to artist; 80s anime looks nothing like 2000s anime, KyoAni anime looks nothing like any Shaft anime, Akira looks nothing like Ghost in the Shell, and there you already have far more than "four or five styles" like you said. Besides, if you really believe western animation is that diversified I'm not sure you have watched any in the last few years. |
Chiibi said: Lol damn...how did I not notice this!? This bothers me now (and I love Star and GF but DAMN....) still better than Adventure Time's art though...stupid noodle people I'm also starting to LOATHE CGI people in Western Animation because they also look way too similar...or is that just me?  There's more difference here in this one tiny niche of western kid's cartoons than look a little similar than there generally is between a lot of anime. They are more daring with the eye spacing/shape/size. The noses are all drawn completely differently. The mouths are very similar on four of them. The style of pupils are massively different. Tiny dot, huge dot, inverted colours, and one of them has an iris. I think the ironic thing about people bringing "cal arts" up as an example is that this tiny little portion of US animation stuff is clearly massively inspired by Japanese anime and illustration. It has the whole "Superflat" thing going. |
patchworkpantsJan 7, 2020 1:31 PM
patchworkpants said: The mouths are very similar on four of them. That's the part that bothers me. WHY? The style of pupils are massively different. Tiny dot, huge dot, inverted colours, and one of them has an iris. Eh, not good enough. xD |
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Satyr_icon said: Besides, if you really believe western animation is that diversified I'm not sure you have watched any in the last few years. I have. It's mostly very different. Satyr_icon said: That's simply not true. Just because a lot of anime use similar stylistic tropes doesn't mean they look similar. Anime varies a lot from era to era, from studio to studio and from artist to artist; 80s anime looks nothing like 2000s anime, KyoAni anime looks nothing like any Shaft anime, Akira looks nothing like Ghost in the Shell, and there you already have far more than "four or five styles" like you said. I am aware that there are more than four or five styles. I've managed to find quite a lot ofg anime that does it's own thing visually. It's just that the most distinctive looking stuff I had to dig quite hard to find. Basically when looking up anime trailers I'm finding stuff that looks almost identical to tons of other anime I've seen, and it's not down to it being from the same studio. I probably should have worded the question differently. There is a ton of anime out there that has a generic style that does roughly look like one of a handful of styles. I know because I have to watch so many trailers before I commit to actually watching a series or film. So maybe the word "most" is the issue here. Like I said before, I'm not rewording the thread title now because if I did that then half of the replies wouldn't make any sense and everyone would look crazy responding to a totally different question. The point of the thread wasn't even to say "THIS IS TERRIBLE AND NEEDS TO CHANGE!!". It was more just me being curious about why. |
Chiibi said: patchworkpants said: The mouths are very similar on four of them. That's the part that bothers me. WHY? The style of pupils are massively different. Tiny dot, huge dot, inverted colours, and one of them has an iris. Eh, not good enough. xD I'm just going to assume you're being ironic here and not respond properly. |
I'm really not being ironic at all. The same style for all of these cartoons definitely bugs me....why can't they try something different? We need more Invader Zims and Hotel Hazbins; those styles are awesome. :> |
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Chiibi said: I'm really not being ironic at all. The same style for all of these cartoons definitely bugs me....why can't they try something different? We need more Invader Zims and Hotel Hazbins; those styles are awesome. :> You're not intentionally being ironic, but judging by your list, you've seen nearly 300 anime series/movies where a significant portion of those have almost identical mouth styles, and in many cases almost identical facial feature placement in general. Contrast that with the four cartoons from studios based in California that draw their characters quite differently but with similar mouths. Do you not see any irony there? |
Chiibi said: why can't they try something different? They are. The cartoons look more different than a lot of anime does from each other. They just have similar looking mouths. They probably didn't want to use a different style because the individual styles of those shows (that do share the bean mouth) are massively distinct from most western animation that doesn't look remotely like any of those shows. |
patchworkpants said: Chiibi said: I'm really not being ironic at all. The same style for all of these cartoons definitely bugs me....why can't they try something different? We need more Invader Zims and Hotel Hazbins; those styles are awesome. :> You're not intentionally being ironic, but judging by your list, you've seen nearly 300 anime series/movies where a significant portion of those have almost identical mouth styles, and in many cases almost identical facial feature placement in general. Contrast that with the four cartoons from studios based in California that draw their characters quite differently but with similar mouths. Do you not see any irony there? No, because it's just really different...especially when we get into demographics and genres. Shoujo tends to have a distinct style...but not ALL shoujo looks the same. As it is with shounen, seinen, josei, etc. |
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| You have a great misconception about Western animation thou... Adventure Time:  Brave Warriors  See any similarities? Or... The Simpsons  Futurama  Disenchantment  And I could go on. Anyway to answer the question... In the West there is a lot of competition. Animation is art, and each animator has their own style, is necessary to get noticed. The examples above are similar because they are done by the same lead animator. If an animator's series is successful, their series will go on for many years, that why he won't get a large portfolio to present. An animator that works a decade or more on a series, does not produce as many works as a Japanese director that can create 5 or even 10 series, right? And if the series is unsuccessful, it would get cancelled by the TV studio, and the animator would probably be replaced by a new one waiting it's turn. Japanese animation, has it's own style, that's why is called anime, is based on more realist features, and more detailed. Back in the days, it was mostly Disney who made something similar, in fact Japan has an anime industry because it got inspired by Disney's success and style many decades ago. Disney replaced traditional animation thou for CGI, and the only sources for 2D animation remained cartoon networks, that aimed children, who developed a more child friendly and more importantly, merchandise friendly style of animation - as the networks wanted characters that could be easily distinguished and recognized by the children on the shelves and make their parents buy it. There is also the fact that Western animation is easier to produce and cheaper... the reason why Disney stopped making traditional animation, where the astronomical production costs. Animation in West is already very expensive - a single 20 minutes episode of Adventure Time was 2-4 million dollars if I remember right. It would be extremely expensive to produce anime in the West - Japanese manage to keep their expenses to 120-200 000 dollars per episode, just because the wages they pay to their animators didn't change since late 80s. As for anime styles... Is pretty similar, in a way. First of all, there is Western like childish animation too, for example Dororo, Kyoro-chan or Raper Parapa... All those target children, and follow the Western strategy too - merchandise and child friendly art. Anime on the other hand, targets older kids, teens and even adults, so it needs to be more serious and mature looking. It happens rare in the West, because the Western companies still feel that cartoons are for children, despise large adult audience, and try to familiarize viewers with the childish style to keep attracting adult audiences to children shows, and not alienate adult animation form the rest. Now, as for diversity in styles, is again similar to the West. Animators as Miyazaky or Makoto Shinkai built their studios and developed their own styles, that make them easily distinguishable by the audiences, and is good for business, as it creates a loyal fan base and is efficient as is more easy to work with a team trained in a style, that having a team needing to familiarize with new styles every time they do a new series. Then we have studios like KyoAni, who also have their own style and follow the same principle. In other cases, it really depends on the mangaka and their style. Every mangaka has their idols, their favorite artists that inspire them, and many work as assistants for other mangaka and adopt their style as a result. Most of the studios that adapt manga or light novels use the design and style of the original source, because that's what the audiences want. So yeah, those would be the reasons... But anyway, there is an astounding amount of diversity in anime, in 14 years, I never confused characters, and is pretty easy to realize from what anime is a character purely based on the art style. |
kronopyJan 7, 2020 2:41 PM
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| Man this topic made me want so much a mycartoonlist. Cartoons are so underestimated |
| You're wrong, watch better anime... |
patchworkpants said: I have. It's mostly very different. No, it really isn't, especially if we are talking about modern American animation. Every adult sitcom looks like the Simpsons with or without a tinge of realism, Disney barely touched their style ever since Bambi and their computer-animated movies all also look pretty similar to each other (same about other big studios like Dreamworks), a lot of children's cartoon nowadays all share the exact same style, as shown above. Of course, there's a lot of unique stuff, but those are, indeed, few and far between. European animation is somewhat more diverse, but mostly because they are not as commercial and more of a niche market, in which stuff like Yuasa's works falls into. patchworkpants said: Basically when looking up anime trailers I'm finding stuff that looks almost identical to tons of other anime I've seen, and it's not down to it being from the same studio. I mean, if you are only looking into recent low-quality seasonals that are made only intended to improve manga and associated products sales, then obviously they are going to all look like each other. Just like American blockbusters. It's hard to find stuff that really turns animation into its head like Yuasa's stuff, but sharing visual tropes doesn't mean they aren't visually diverse. All of Don Bluth's movies share the same art style and they are anything but generic-looking. patchworkpants said: The point of the thread wasn't even to say "THIS IS TERRIBLE AND NEEDS TO CHANGE!!". It was more just me being curious about why. If you wanna know the 'why' anime share so many similarities, it's mostly because of the creator of this 'anime' style, Osamu Tezuka. His influence was pretty strong, and a lot of early manga shared very heavy similarities with his own style, and that influence simply never went away. He and others were pretty influenced by Disney's animations and comics as well. Another 'why' might be because anime is mostly viewed as a product, so as I said, there's a lot of seasonals that are only made to boost manga/light novels sales and other related products. A lot of those manga/light novels are also just as generic, so probably not a lot of thought go into those. |
| @kronopy The only reason those look similar is because they are done by the same people thus would have the same style of art. Matt Groening for Futurama, Disenchanted, Simpsons and Pendelton Ward for Adventure Time and Bravest Warriors. Satyr_icon said: Most adult sitcoms look nothing like the Simpsons.. Every adult sitcom looks like the Simpsons with or without a tinge of realism. Does Mike Tyson Mysteries look like the Simpsons? Does King of the Kill look like the Simpsons? Does Southpark look like the Simpsons? Does American Dad look like the Simpsons? Does Rick and Morty look like the Simpsons? Does Bob's Burgers look like the Simpsons? Futurama is the only show you can really say looks like the Simpsons and that's only because both are done by Matt Groening. |
DrGeroCreationJan 7, 2020 3:16 PM
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kronopy said: You have a great misconception about Western animation thou... Adventure Time: Brave Warriors See any similarities? Or... The Simpsons [img}https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/768x433/2018/09/simpsons_header-h_2018.jpg[/img] Futurama Disenchantment And I could go on. You've listed two animations by one creator, and then two animations by a different creator. Both of those creators have very distinctive styles on their shows that look different to any show made by anyone else (I think anyway! There may be a low budget rip off somewhere like there is with Seth Macfarlane's cartoons). When I can be bothered I will come do the whole img /img thing with a load of anime and video games by completely different directors and studios to show what I mean. It'll take a long time and I'm not sure what it'll achieve which is why I haven't bothered to try and do that yet. The rest of your post was really useful and informative though. I think you're probably on the money with all of that. |
DrGeroCreation said: Does Mike Tyson Mysteries look like the Simpsons? Does King of the Kill look like the Simpsons? Does Southpark look like the Simpsons? Does American Dad look like the Simpsons? Does Rick and Morty look like the Simpsons? Does Bob's Burgers look like the Simpsons? Futurama is the only show you can really say looks like the Simpsons and that's only because both are done by Matt Groening. Yes to some of those, especially Rick and Morty and American Dad. I guess I should've learned by now people don't seem to get hyperbole on the internet. |
Satyr_icon said: I mean, if you are only looking into recent low-quality seasonals that are made only intended to improve manga and associated products sales, then obviously they are going to all look like each other. Just like American blockbusters. Is that what I'm looking at? Have you hacked my computer to look at my watch history? :D How do you know what I've been looking at? |
Satyr_icon said: Sorry, no I don't get hyperbole online. I thought you were being serious.DrGeroCreation said: Does Mike Tyson Mysteries look like the Simpsons? Does King of the Kill look like the Simpsons? Does Southpark look like the Simpsons? Does American Dad look like the Simpsons? Does Rick and Morty look like the Simpsons? Does Bob's Burgers look like the Simpsons? Futurama is the only show you can really say looks like the Simpsons and that's only because both are done by Matt Groening. Yes to some of those, especially Rick and Morty and American Dad. I guess I should've learned by now people don't seem to get hyperbole on the internet. |
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| If you look closely, not everything has the same style. Anime has this general aesthetic, I guess you'd call it, but they're still pretty unique from one another. Some more than others. |
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Ehta said: If you look closely, not everything has the same style. Anime has this general aesthetic, I guess you'd call it, but they're still pretty unique from one another. Some more than others. Is that last one Makoto from Persona 5? |
patchworkpants said: Is that what I'm looking at? Have you hacked my computer to look at my watch history? :D How do you know what I've been looking at? I made that assumption because you mentioned trailers, which made me think of recent seasonals since trailers for old anime are harder to find, and because these are mostly the only kind of anime that really look like what you've described. Sorry if it came out rude, wasn't my intention. |
Satyr_icon said: patchworkpants said: Is that what I'm looking at? Have you hacked my computer to look at my watch history? :D How do you know what I've been looking at? I made that assumption because you mentioned trailers, which made me think of recent seasonals since trailers for old anime are harder to find, and because these are mostly the only kind of anime that really look like what you've described. Sorry if it came out rude, wasn't my intention. It's okay. I was just teasing. Bit off topic but I like your taste. Had a bit of a look through your "completed" top rated stuff and a lot of it is stuff on my "plan to watch" list if I haven't seen it already. |
Maneki-Mew said: I was trying to prove that western cartoons have sexy and cute characters.Yeah okay, but what do you try to prove? Many people just don't like the majority of comics and you can't them force them to. I can't stand most superheroes stories, because heroes themselves that I have seen, are too often idealized. And I can't stand many woman you showed looks like a dominatrix fantasy, not just one or two. There is then less diversity too, when everyone represents a similar type of women. Yeah they are good-looking but their outfits are off-putting, at least if everyone wears similar stuff with tight leather and varnish suits. If the majority of people didn't like comics or superheroes then the MCU would have failed and not be the most financially successful film franchise. There is variety in superhero costumes, not everyone wears the same clothes and no one I showed has dominatrix clothes. MrAwesome2018 said: I'm surprised people didn't mention Daphne.I'm disappointed that no one mentioned Velma from Scooby-Doo or Raven from Teen Titans... |
DrGeroCreationJan 7, 2020 4:29 PM
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DrGeroCreation said: Does Bob's Burgers look like the Simpsons No, it just looks like SHIT. :D Sorry, I detest that show with burning passion. Artist doesn't believe in chins I guess. Bob's Burgers has the worst character designs I've ever seen for an animated show. (And before you bitch about 'missing noses/lips in anime' again, dude, I want you to photoshop your favorite character without a CHIN and tell me how attractive that looks. |
ChiibiJan 7, 2020 7:05 PM
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patchworkpants said: Ehta said: If you look closely, not everything has the same style. Anime has this general aesthetic, I guess you'd call it, but they're still pretty unique from one another. Some more than others. Is that last one Makoto from Persona 5? Yup~ 30 character limit : \\\\\\\\\ |
| ˚₊‧꒰ა ♱ ໒꒱ ‧₊˚ |
Chiibi said: I'm also starting to LOATHE CGI people in Western Animation because they also look way too similar...or is that just me? That's just you |
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Phokat said:  Does these look same to you... Hunnn!? The eighth design has a different style but the others have the same pattern as most current anime. |
amarcioz said: Phokat said: Does these look same to you... Hunnn!? The eighth design has a different style but the others have the same pattern as most current anime. I was the one who started this thread and I can see that those styles are all fairly different from each other. |
Chiibi said: @konkelo Spider-Verse was fantastic but I'm not sure that's entirely CG...I think it's mixed media? I was mostly talking about the big titles that release movies; Pixar, Illumination, Blue Sky, Dreamworks etc. Their female characters tend to look 'same-y' to me? Idk. Spider-verse has as a base CGI animation, details to create comic book look are done in 2D animation. Different from something like lets say Waltz with Bashir where humans are mostly done in flash animation. Hence why I avoided most major American animation studios on purpose, since it would be same as talking about Studio Ghibli and Kyoani when it comes to Japan. Beside majority of Western animations come from France, so focusing on USA only would be ignoring big part of the medium. Of course something like Disney's Princesses line looks same, they reuse character designs that are marketable. Similarly Disney studio has had same cutesy style to draw animals since Snow white and still have it going. With Dreamworks however I can already name three female characters from CGI animated films that don't look same at all, Nana the old antagonist lady from Madagascar 2, Astrid Hofferson How to train your Dragon and Fiona (human version) from Shrek. |
konkeloJan 8, 2020 11:57 AM
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konkelo said: Spider-verse has as a base CGI animation, details to create comic book look are done in 2D animation. Different from something like lets say Waltz with Bashir where humans are mostly done in flash animation. I see. I hope we get more movies like that. I feel like American animated movies are in a bit of a slump, lately. They're either bad, mediocre, or okay-ish. But even the good ones are just playing it safe. Spider-verse BLEW my mind. I want something else to take risks and blow my mind again. lol |
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Chiibi said: konkelo said: Spider-verse has as a base CGI animation, details to create comic book look are done in 2D animation. Different from something like lets say Waltz with Bashir where humans are mostly done in flash animation. I see. I hope we get more movies like that. I feel like American animated movies are in a bit of a slump, lately. They're either bad, mediocre, or okay-ish. But even the good ones are just playing it safe. Spider-verse BLEW my mind. I want something else to take risks and blow my mind again. lol We will get a sequel at least lol. Amazing improvement from Sony, from Emoji movie to imo top 5 film in 2018. I admit American animated films have been stagnant for a while. I feel biggest issue is Disney having monopoly over for the longest time, leaving either other studios parroting what Disney does or losing competition already from the start, and it's clear Disney won't take any risks. I give that American animated tv series still have variety, even Disney's cartoons, and can be enjoyable even for older audience. |
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