| (ıncoming eye raping bad English) Only Cowboy Bebop's dub was better than the original because the bit gritty man voice suits Spike more than a softer man voice. It suits the character more. In other animes I watched , the dubs just felt off. The people who do the dubs must find people whos voice suits the character by looking the characters personality and outfits. I think they don't try this. Thats why I'm a Subber. |
| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ _Open to criticism._ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| i like subs but i will watch whatever language i can find it in and probably enjoy it just the same |
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| Oh great... This is like, what, the 15th time I've seen this kind of thread? Serious answer: Look, no translation is perfect. There's bound to be a few errors here and there. While I may prefer subbed to dubbed for my own reasons (There ARE dubs that I like though), this is all just a matter of preferences anyway. Let people watch whatever they want. |
 Help, I'm hooked into the Fate series (not all) and am obsessed with Shirou x Saber! Also, forever hoping for a ufotable remake of the Fate route! |
| There's more bad dubs than bad original audios but that does not matter if you're watching one of the other dubs which are mostly adequate and sometimes even great. They have their upsides and downsides like anything and if you want to go for dubs largely depends on your priorities (in general or at that specific time). I've read millions of lines of subtitles over the years and sometimes I just don't want to have to read to consume my media, it's that simple. Dubs are great for that. Tho I'd generally pick shows where small inconsistencies in the translation, which are inevitable, won't make a big difference. Cause it's undeniable stuff gets lost in translation all the time if you don't watch or read the original of anything, the only question about it is do you care more about these nuances or about not having to read subs. That is IF you're even acquainted enough with japanese to not have the same issue with subs anyway, not being able to tell whether it's an accurate or a liberal translation. God knows sub translations can be just as bad if not worse than dub translations. Once you're over the fact that translations and therefore dub scripts are essentially always 'rewrites' of the material and that it generally is more important for that new, dubbed version to be consistent with itself and manage to come across as natural with its phrasing and conversation flow, even if that means being a bit more liberal in the translation, you can stop comparing and start appreciating dubs on their own merit, as their own experience. Maybe not 100% the same as the original, but that doesn't make it inherently worse and less worth experiencing. It can just be different without being worse, or it can even be better. Of course there are elements beyond the translation like the voice acting and as I said in the beginning there are way more dubs who fail at being at least decent at that, but that's no reason to generalize as there are still tons of good dubs out there as well. In my experience the most common weakness of dubs is not being completely garbage, but just having a few weak points in the cast. Maybe not even any regulars, but even a fantastic dub like Cowboy Bebop has some episodic side characters with questionable voice acting. The VA pool in NA just isn't very deep so either many roles are done by the same people or you're always gonna have some weak points in your cast, even if they're only minor roles. Personally I'm not really bothered if it's like in Bebop and there's a few bad VAs in very minor roles that don't have great voice acting. As long as the main and recurring chars are voiced well, it's a good dub to me. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I was getting irritated by this voice actor on twitter recently of him saying that "of course more people will find the japanese version more appealing cause japanese language is inherently more dramatic" well what the heck, you're basically telling me that English VA lack that cartoonish charisma and dramatics to voice characters aka why I find many performances underwhelming. Many of them sound like they're chilled out voicing in their casual speaking voice. It can work for some roles but there is hardly a range that I'll see on many seasoned seiyuu. Dubs can be great with the right cast and voice director. But all the elements must come together for it. Honestly I rather have better dubs cause I rather focus on the actual show or even take my eyes of the screen without missing crucial information. |
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Techon6002 said: Subs are always better. I feel like people say dubs are better just to seem cool. LMAO no. it's the people trying to act like subs have a clearer meaning that are trying to 'seem cool' although I don't think that's the right term. They just want to be over obsessed with Japanese culture and pretend theyre more sophisticated for reading subs. That's people who act like subs provided a clearer understanding. Choosing one or the other because you think one has better voice acting is completely different, that's acceptable. Even if youre reading subtitles though it's already gone through translation. Both have their issues, but are going to be the exact same meaning. If you wanna really be some elitist weeb who wants to think they got a better understanding of the show learn Japanese and watch it in that language it was written in. Subs are not any better than dubs, it's the dumbest @#$@ ever to think it is. |
| Lolicons are scum. BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica. Naruto is objectively the best anime ever. HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad. |
Hokage_Jason said: Techon6002 said: Subs are always better. I feel like people say dubs are better just to seem cool. LMAO no. it's the people trying to act like subs have a clearer meaning that are trying to 'seem cool' although I don't think that's the right term. They just want to be over obsessed with Japanese culture and pretend theyre more sophisticated for reading subs. That's people who act like subs provided a clearer understanding. Choosing one or the other because you think one has better voice acting is completely different, that's acceptable. Even if youre reading subtitles though it's already gone through translation. Both have their issues, but are going to be the exact same meaning. If you wanna really be some elitist weeb who wants to think they got a better understanding of the show learn Japanese and watch it in that language it was written in. Subs are not any better than dubs, it's the dumbest @#$@ ever to think it is. I mean, it depends. I don't have any formal education in japanese and can't speak the language, but I've spent so much time watching anime in japanese that I do know a lot of phrases and words and it happens all the time that I recognize liberal and questionable translations in subs because I hear what they say. Doesn't mean I can understand whole complex conversations or anything without subtitles, but when I hear a word and know what it means and that meaning is not in the subs I can figure it out for myself which I can't with dubs where I ONLY have access to the translation and might actually miss out on some meaning if it isn't put in the dub. Getting the translation and the original at the same time is what makes watching subs so practical so it's not just about the sub translation being better or worse than the dub translation. There is also the minor factor of scripted conversations often sounding fake especially the more familiar you are with how natural conversations sound in a language, so not being able to understand the language and only reading the translation can prevent that from being an issue too, while it is impossible to overlook it when it happens in a language you easily understand. So I guess wonky scripts are easier to stomach when it's subbed. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I personally prefer watching dubs just so I can understand what the characters are saying. I'm aware many subs are often better acted than dubs, but I dislike dividing my attention between the sub and the anime. The whole "dub watchers are lazy" is a pretty garbage argument. It's not that I'm lazy, I just don't feel as immersed in a show if it's not in a language I understand. Same thing applies to those that say "dub watchers aren't smart enough" too. I hate it when people feel they-re intellectually superior and holier-than-thou because they think subbed anime is the best thing since sliced bread. I find anti-dubbers to be elitist. Not those that prefer subs, just those that say all dubs suck or are inherently inferior. Baccano! is better dubbed, and you won't change my mind. Shiki and Made in Abyss also have fantastic dubs, but anti-dubbers refuse to watch it, so they'd never know. Just watch whatever you want. I don't see the issue with watching subbed or dubbed. It's just personal preference. |
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jarring said: Pullman said: I mean, it depends. I don't have any formal education in japanese and can't speak the language, but I've spent so much time watching anime in japanese that I do know a lot of phrases and words and it happens all the time that I recognize liberal and questionable translations in subs because I hear what they say. Doesn't mean I can understand whole complex conversations or anything without subtitles, but when I hear a word and know what it means and that meaning is not in the subs I can figure it out for myself which I can't with dubs where I ONLY have access to the translation and might actually miss out on some meaning if it isn't put in the dub. Getting the translation and the original at the same time is what makes watching subs so practical so it's not just about the sub translation being better or worse than the dub translation. There is also the minor factor of scripted conversations often sounding fake especially the more familiar you are with how natural conversations sound in a language, so not being able to understand the language and only reading the translation can prevent that from being an issue too, while it is impossible to overlook it when it happens in a language you easily understand. So I guess wonky scripts are easier to stomach when it's subbed. I'm actually the same way. Although I prefer dubs, I watch so many subs anyways that I am able to understand all the everyday phrases and some words here and there that can be translated differently depending on the context. I'm guessing it's at the point where most of the weebs think they are "learning Japanese", but I seriously doubt it will get much further than this. As old as I am, and for how long I've been watching, I seriously doubt I'll learn much more from watching anime. It's also why I scoff at anyone who claims they are learning Japanese from watching anime. I've been watching anime for 20+ years, and I can't hold a simple conversation. You need to take a class, and get used to speaking it yourself. Just watching anime won't help much in the long run. Yes, going to the country and hearing it being spoke by people native to the country is great, but actually being there so that you can converse is what is actually beneficial to learning the language. Well, it depends. I mean of course you're right, but I'd also call being able to spot inconsistencies in the subs a benefit. But yeah, you definitely don't learn japanese by only watching a lot of anime. But you do learn to understand anime to some degree since many phrases and terms keep popping up. It's better than nothing, especially for never putting any formal effort into it and it just 'happening' as a side effect of watching stuff you enjoy anyway. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Those animes which have japanese settings just don't go with English. But those which are set in europe(or any english speaking place) or in a separate dimension usually have better dubs eg: bebop, monster, hellsing, FMAB. BUT For most animes subs > dubs |
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| OH HEY THIS TOPIC AGAIN Top 4 reasons that explain claiming that subs are better than (American English, usually) dubs: 1. they're more used to watching stuff subbed, because stuff becomes available earlier subbed (especially fansubbed) before dubbed. naturally, the people who are hardcore anime fans, partciularly those who watch "seasonals", tend toward this. 2. they understand some Japanese, or at least want to learn it. interest in the language as well as Japanese culture in general is a common thing for dedicated anime fans. however, this obviously doesn't apply to everyone. 3. they like Japanese voice acting tropes, such as squeaky high pitched cute girl voice, for example. naturally, this preference can go both ways. 4. they may not be native English speakers themselves. having a show natively in English is more meaningful to a native English speaker, obviously. Other cited reasons: 5. "English voice actors are fewer and thus more re-used." May still be technically true, but is rapidly becoming less true. Also doesn't matter to anyone who isn't great with recognizing voices. 6. "English voice actors are less talented./"English voice actors are less emotive." Subjective relative to tastes. See #3 and #4. 7. "Shows set in Japan should have Japanese voices." A reasonable opinion; even if it's one I don't necessarily agree with, I can see why one would say that. 8. "The translation is more accurate in the sub because it doesn't have to match lip flaps." Likely true, though this presumes that a more accurate translation vs. a freer one necessarily aids in storytelling, which isn't always the case. Also see #9. 9. "The original is always better." An arbitrary standard. Sensible, perhaps, but not one that should be imposed on others. Besides, reading text while one has indecipherable speech superimposed is still not the same as natively understanding the language. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| DUBS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL IN THE FIRST PLACE !! |
  "O kawaii koto" ( ´• ᴗ •` ) I wish i could love myself~ |
iLbcoANIME said: 1. why?DUBS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL IN THE FIRST PLACE !! (2. be more specific; any voiceover is technically a dub, since we're dealing with animation.) |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: iLbcoANIME said: 1. why?DUBS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL IN THE FIRST PLACE !! (2. be more specific; any voiceover is technically a dub, since we're dealing with animation.) idk about you but it completely ruins the anime for me. And your reasons are how |
"O kawaii koto" ( ´• ᴗ •` ) I wish i could love myself~ |
iLbcoANIME said: I don't see why they should be made illegal though. If you don't like them you can still watch a raw or subbed version, except maybe some rare cases of old anime.GlennMagusHarvey said: 1. why? (2. be more specific; any voiceover is technically a dub, since we're dealing with animation.) idk about you but it completely ruins the anime for me. And your reasons are how |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: I don't see why they should be made illegal though. If you don't like them you can still watch a raw or subbed version, except maybe some rare cases of old anime. it was a joke to express how much I hate dubs in anime |
"O kawaii koto" ( ´• ᴗ •` ) I wish i could love myself~ |
| Depends on the show but I try to stick to subs. I've seen too many instances where jokes fall flat when dubbed. But a show like Monster? I went with the dub and really preferred it. |
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| I feel that dubs often (not always) take away some of the expression and meaning in the voices of characters, but well I have always watched subs and kinda have a biased towards dubs, they are just better imo. |
| Subs are better in more ways than one. End of story. You trying to argue that subtitles sometimes change meaning like dubs is just funny. hilarious. shush. Enough of this. Subs won. Battle is over. go home |
Zarutaku said: rsc-pl said: Again? Original voices are always better than dubbing no matter which media you are consuming. There's really nothing to debate about. Anime characters don't have original voices because they are fictional, they are dubbed by Japanese voice actors in sound studios just like in any other language. So yes all Anime are dubbed, even those with subtitles. Late edit: What I mean by this is that animated characters don't have voices in the first place because they are drawings, that's why they get dubbed by voice actors and that goes for every language. You're trying to correct the guy by being technical, but you absolutely know what he meant by his comment. As for the topic, most of the time, subs. I'm not a purist, if there's an anime that's better dubbed then I'll watch it dubbed. I prefer subs because the dialogue in anime can be so incredibly corny and cheesy. I don't physically cringe when hearing these lines in Japanese since that's not my native language. The English dubbing industry is so small compared to Japan's VA industry that you have a much smaller group of actually talented voice actors with distinct voices for English dubbing. I tried watching Naruto dubbed when I was in high school, everyone sounded the exact same, with no emotional range. It's like the west don't actually understand the source material and the target demographic enough that they just tell every voice actor "this is for the kiddies and pre-teens, so just try and act cool and completely stoic. This anime has like over 50 characters, so make sure to make the most unmemorable voice you possibly can". |
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| i only watch with subs. i will do everything in my power to find subs over dubs haha. i just prefer watching with subtitles, even watching english movies. it's more convenient because if i watched with dubs and missed what they said, i would have to rewind but with subs i don't have to. i studied a little japanese at high school too so i can understand a bit :) |
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| Subs are almost always far superior. the native language is most suited for the produced medium in the Japanese context, which is Nihongo. |
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| This thread in a nutshell, like all other subs vs dubs threads: * some people: "I prefer subs" * some people: "I prefer dubs" * some people: "it depends on the show, for me" * some people: "OMG dubs are trash that shouldn't exist, and those who like them smell of elderberries" |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I prefer subs except when Kappei Yamaguchi has a leading role then I watch the show dubbed. I guess I also like Dragon Ball more dubbed than subbed but the sub isn't that horrible at least not compared to works that have Kappei Yamaguchi in them. |
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Hokage_Jason said: Missing these conversations can often leave out far more context than an improper translation that generally still provides the same message. I'm going to use a very generic example that could easily be found in a multitude of animes; -school setting -new student arrives -teacher introduces student -students are talking amongst themselves about this, but nothing they say is subtitled, because the subtitles are being provided for the protagonist or teacher or new student or whoever. If that had taken place in a language you verbally comprehended however, you can pick up several things from the background dialogue. This is a very small example, and the background conversation in that specific example probably isn't highly relevant, but you should see the point I'm trying to make. It's true what you say but it's also true that it is completely irrelevant and does not add anything to the plot. I haven't seen any dubbed series with that problem. In my favorites list, besides being great series, has an excellent dubbing for me. Nothing to do with the current dubbing. I like the dubbed series of before. Currently I only see subtitled anime. |
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| It really depends on the show man, there are certain shows that are great in both sub and dub some that have a horrible dub and some that have a horrible sub. At the end of the day I'd say it comes down entirely to preference and everyone should enjoy the medium of anime in the way they find most comfortable. Though if I were to pick one over the other I would definitely say the sub is better than the dub 9 times out of 10. |
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| Subs for most. Dubs for some. And some I can go either way. It depends. |
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Grub4dos said: FWIW, storytelling it's not just about plot; stuff like that can add elements of atmosphere.It's true what you say but it's also true that it is completely irrelevant and does not add anything to the plot. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Grub4dos said: FWIW, storytelling it's not just about plot; stuff like that can add elements of atmosphere.It's true what you say but it's also true that it is completely irrelevant and does not add anything to the plot. Of course, dubbing does, too. Maybe it's not exactly the same as the background dialogue, but it does. The atmosphere is not lost. |
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