| I mean Conviction (at least apart from the Lost Children arc) wasn't really that good compared to the Golden Age but at least it was still solid enough. After that arc the series just goes downhill. The 3 former complex leads just became a shell of their former self. Guts is just the boring Daddy of the group who gives generic one liners and kills random monsters, Griffith is just bland after his return and Casca has been a potato for 20 years (and volumes, wtf). Guts new JRPG party is devoid of any compelling character. Schierke is the typical cute loli girl, Isidro is an annoying Shounen protagonist, Farnese's whole character changes because she cut her hair etc. Puck who was once a real character has been flanderized post Conviction, just a complete joke. The story also feels dragged out, like the mangaka is milking it (sea god arc was the worst offense) and overall Berserk seems to have lost any depth it had. The tone is also rather childish now, it has lost the dark atmosphere that made it so appealing. Instead we get obnoxious humor every chapter and the high fantasy elements just increased a lot (the stupid magic system makes it seem like an JRPG, so gamey and silly) There is never any tension and the fights are just so boring now (because of the Berserker Armor power up and Schierke always saving Guts) . The villians also became much less interesting apart from Ganishka. Guts just fights random generic monsters now instead of actual compelling villians like the Count and Rosine. The dialogue got worse and much more simplistic as well Overall I dont get why this is rated so highly...it just feels dumbed down in every way these days apart from the art. |
Aardwolf94Oct 25, 2017 12:55 PM
| It doesn't you're just saying that cuz you have to wait 1 year to read the next chapter. Berserk is so much better to read without the wait. That's why I haven't touched it in the last 3 years. |
Valaskjalf said: It doesn't you're just saying that cuz you have to wait 1 year to read the next chapter. Berserk is so much better to read without the wait. That's why I haven't touched it in the last 3 years. I don't think thats true because I only read the manga the first time like 2 years ago and now just read it again because I wanted to give it another chance. Its just not as good as it was during the Golden Age arc, hell its not even as good as the Conviction arc. |
lequack said: I agree. I feel the same way about the manga. It has become almost generic/predictable now. I want something like the golden age arc (which is the best arc in any manga imo) or at least have a main character die so that the tone becomes serious again. Yeah I absolutely loved the Golden Age arc, it would be my favourite as well. Its just disappointing to see that the mangaka seems to have stopped caring after that and just goes the generic route. It feels dumbed down and too safe, like the latest seasons of GoT. |
Aardwolf94 said: Guts new JRPG party is devoid of any compelling character. Schierke is the typical cute loli girl, Isidro is an annoying Shounen protagonist, Farnese's whole character changes because she cut her hair etc. Puck who was once a real character has been flanderized post Conviction, just a complete joke. Complete bullshit. These characters have depth and they are well developed to say the least. More so than the characters of the original Hawks. We never got background stories for the old Hawks, more than a few hinting lines. Miura spent much more time developing these new characters. You might like them less, it's subjective, but I think it's pure BS to say Schierke is just a "typical loli" and Farnese obviously did not change character because of a haircut... Why not say Judeay is your typical chill guy, Pippin your typical silent big guy and Corkus your typical a-hole? |
zodd0 said: Aardwolf94 said: Guts new JRPG party is devoid of any compelling character. Schierke is the typical cute loli girl, Isidro is an annoying Shounen protagonist, Farnese's whole character changes because she cut her hair etc. Puck who was once a real character has been flanderized post Conviction, just a complete joke. Complete bullshit. These characters have depth and they are well developed to say the least. More so than the characters of the original Hawks. We never got background stories for the old Hawks, more than a few hinting lines. Miura spent much more time developing these new characters. You might like them less, it's subjective, but I think it's pure BS to say Schierke is just a "typical loli" and Farnese obviously did not change character because of a haircut... Why not say Judeay is your typical chill guy, Pippin your typical silent big guy and Corkus your typical a-hole? That's why its more disappointing that they are such boring (or even annoying characters). Miura focused so much on them (much more than on the GA side cast so the comparison is unfair here) but he didn't add much depth sadly. Tell me of Isidro's great development then..oh wait there isn't any. He is still the same annoying Shounen cliche who never grew up even though he is already in Berserk for 20 Volumes. Schierke and Farnese are also very lackluster compared to Casca (which would be the right comparison here considering they are the female leads now). Of course she is just a cute nice loli girl who always saves everyone, I mean what else is there? She isn't flawed or compelling apart from her magic skills. I just read Berserk again and this is exactly what happens. Farnese completely changes once she cuts her hair/joins Guts. Its good that she developed (more than you can say about the rest) but it was way too rushed. She was a dangerous religious lunatic who got off seeing people burning for the better part of her life and then suddenly all that is gone? Wtf Serpico btw also has revealed zero development. He started out with being obsessed with Farnese and he is still obsessed with her.. Puck, the less said about his "development" (more like regression) the better. |
Aardwolf94 said: Tell me of Isidro's great development then..oh wait there isn't any. He is still the same annoying Shounen cliche who never grew up even though he is already in Berserk for 20 Volumes. He used to only care about himself, and was a bit like Guts in that way. He has since helped save all the other members of the party in one way or another. Isidro has humbled himself a lot since he first showed up, and he has gone from a cocky half-useless brat to someone who can be relied on to protect Casca if needed. At first he hated Schierke and did not get a long with her very well, but he has grown fond of hen even though they often argue. I can see a future couple happening there. Aardwolf94 said: Schierke and Farnese are also very lackluster compared to Casca (which would be the right comparison here considering they are the female leads now). Of course she is just a cute nice loli girl who always saves everyone, I mean what else is there? She isn't flawed or compelling apart from her magic skills. Of course Casca is in a league of her own. She is part of the original main trio of characters, and no female character will be able to replace her. Schierke is mature, wise and brave for her age. She used to dislike humans and people other than her mistress Flora. Gradually she has taken a liking to the other members of the party, especially to Guts who she now sees as something between a father figure and a love interest. Even though he was the one she disliked the most at first. Schierke is not just a magic user, but has become a magic teacher as well. Her knowledge of the world, and especially the astral world, is crucial for the party. Aardwolf94 said: I just read Berserk again and this is exactly what happens. Farnese completely changes once she cuts her hair/joins Guts. Its good that she developed (more than you can say about the rest) but it was way too rushed. She was a dangerous religious lunatic who got off seeing people burning for the better part of her life and then suddenly all that is gone? Wtf It seems like you didn't read very carefully. Farnese's development is the most detailed and well written of the newer characters I'd say. It slowly happened over the course of her first meeting Guts. She gradually started to realize how little she knew of the world, and how much she thought she had known even though she was ignorant. She humbled herself, and her curiosity grew as well as her feelings and fascination for Guts. He completely changed her views of the world, and it sure as hell did not all happen when she joined his party. Aardwolf94 said: Serpico btw also has revealed zero development. He started out with being obsessed with Farnese and he is still obsessed with her.. Puck, the less said about his "development" (more like regression) the better. He started out being overly protective, trying to kill Guts so that he would not endanger Farnese. Now he is way more open to Farnese seeking our her own destiny of her own free will. She is trying to become a witch, after hating witches and burning them on the stake for so long. I might ask, what was the character development of Judeau, Corkus and Pippin? What made their character developments stronger? |
zodd0 said: Aardwolf94 said: Tell me of Isidro's great development then..oh wait there isn't any. He is still the same annoying Shounen cliche who never grew up even though he is already in Berserk for 20 Volumes. He used to only care about himself, and was a bit like Guts in that way. He has since helped save all the other members of the party in one way or another. Isidro has humbled himself a lot since he first showed up, and he has gone from a cocky half-useless brat to someone who can be relied on to protect Casca if needed. At first he hated Schierke and did not get a long with her very well, but he has grown fond of hen even though they often argue. I can see a future couple happening there. Aardwolf94 said: Schierke and Farnese are also very lackluster compared to Casca (which would be the right comparison here considering they are the female leads now). Of course she is just a cute nice loli girl who always saves everyone, I mean what else is there? She isn't flawed or compelling apart from her magic skills. Of course Casca is in a league of her own. She is part of the original main trio of characters, and no female character will be able to replace her. Schierke is mature, wise and brave for her age. She used to dislike humans and people other than her mistress Flora. Gradually she has taken a liking to the other members of the party, especially to Guts who she now sees as something between a father figure and a love interest. Even though he was the one she disliked the most at first. Schierke is not just a magic user, but has become a magic teacher as well. Her knowledge of the world, and especially the astral world, is crucial for the party. Aardwolf94 said: I just read Berserk again and this is exactly what happens. Farnese completely changes once she cuts her hair/joins Guts. Its good that she developed (more than you can say about the rest) but it was way too rushed. She was a dangerous religious lunatic who got off seeing people burning for the better part of her life and then suddenly all that is gone? Wtf It seems like you didn't read very carefully. Farnese's development is the most detailed and well written of the newer characters I'd say. It slowly happened over the course of her first meeting Guts. She gradually started to realize how little she knew of the world, and how much she thought she had known even though she was ignorant. She humbled herself, and her curiosity grew as well as her feelings and fascination for Guts. He completely changed her views of the world, and it sure as hell did not all happen when she joined his party. Aardwolf94 said: Serpico btw also has revealed zero development. He started out with being obsessed with Farnese and he is still obsessed with her.. Puck, the less said about his "development" (more like regression) the better. He started out being overly protective, trying to kill Guts so that he would not endanger Farnese. Now he is way more open to Farnese seeking our her own destiny of her own free will. She is trying to become a witch, after hating witches and burning them on the stake for so long. I might ask, what was the character development of Judeau, Corkus and Pippin? What made their character developments stronger? You can rely on him to protect Casca since the Conviction arc, that was 20 volumes ago. And yeah he likes his group and protects them but is that really development? He is still cocky as hell, still naive about the world and overall he hasn't become more mature at all. Think about Jill's development in just one arc, she was rather deep for a kid character and its a shame Isidro is rather bland. Would have preferred Rickert in Guts company than this Shounen cliche. Farnese and Schierke could have been as good as Casca, they have gotten a lot more focus and Casca has been a potato for decades. But Miura didn't use the opportunity at all. How does that make Schierke compelling? Her being so mature and brave for her age makes her unrealistic and too perfect. She always does the right thing, always cares for her team mates etc. its just boring. Her "hate" towards Guts was anything but serious and she already liked him towards the end of the troll story, that was again quite a long time ago. Her being crucial for the party doesn't mean she is a good character either... A magician was an interesting addition to the team but Miura chose to go the most cliche way possible with her character (added with the silly crush on Guts too). Its better done than the rest but the problem is that something like getting off on seeing people being burned doesn't just magically heal so fast. Once she joined Guts party it was like those dark things never happened, almost like it was retconned. Still she is overall the best one out of the current group, just a bit rushed in terms of development. So his character is still reduced to Farnese..he should have found his own path that would have been more interesting. Its silly to compare Guts current party with Judeau & co. Those poor guys never got the same amount of focus, if they did they would be much better characters since Miura was a stronger writer back then. Its not just about Guts party, its about Guts, Casca and Griffith too. They used to be such complex characters and now are just a shell of their former self. |
Aardwolf94Oct 23, 2017 8:48 AM
Aardwolf94 said: You can rely on him to protect Casca since the Conviction arc, that was 20 volumes ago. And yeah he likes his group and protects them but is that really development? He is still cocky as hell, still naive about the world and overall he hasn't become more mature at all. Think about Jill's development in just one arc, she was rather deep for a kid character and its a shame Isidro is rather bland. Would have preferred Rickert in Guts company than this Shounen cliche. It's like you want him to become a completely different person. Character development can occur even if the person is the same... Aardwolf94 said: How does that make Schierke compelling? Her being so mature and brave for her age makes her unrealistic and too perfect. She always does the right thing, always cares for her team mates etc. its just boring. Her "hate" towards Guts was anything but serious and she already liked him towards the end of the troll story, that was again quite a long time ago. Her being crucial for the party doesn't mean she is a good character either... A magician was an interesting addition to the team but Miura chose to go the most cliche way possible with her character (added with the silly crush on Guts too). How does it make her "a typical loli"? I've never heard anyone describe her like that before and I still don't know what you're getting it from. BS. Aardwolf94 said: Its better done than the rest but the problem is that something like getting off on seeing people being burned doesn't just magically heal so fast. Once she joined Guts party it was like those dark things never happened, almost like it was retconned. Still she is overall the best one out of the current group, just a bit rushed in terms of development. It took a looong time for her to get used to the Elfs, as her prejudice against magic and magical creatures did not go away in a blink. She has a huge sence of guilt and she is trying to redeem herself. Once again, I don't know wth you're talking about. Aardwolf94 said: So his character is still reduced to Farnese..he should have found his own path that would have been more interesting. It has started to happen, more so since Roderick entered to grasp more of Farnese's attention. Serpico is also a fighter and protector of the group as a whole. Aardwolf94 said: Its silly to compare Guts current party with Judeau & co. Those poor guys never got the same amount of focus, if they did they would be much better characters since Miura was a stronger writer back then. It's silly to complain that the character development is not enough and then praise characters that got a lot less of it. Aardwolf94 said: Its not just about Guts party, its about Guts, Casca and Griffith too. They used to be such complex characters and now are just a shell of their former self. Well, people change. They're around 25 years old know. Most 25 year olds are shells of their former teen selfs. They're still amazing characters, so I call BS again. You might wanna just stop reading the manga then since you dislike it so much. I've honestly never heard someone criticize the manga this much without having dropped it earlier on... |
zodd0 said: Aardwolf94 said: You can rely on him to protect Casca since the Conviction arc, that was 20 volumes ago. And yeah he likes his group and protects them but is that really development? He is still cocky as hell, still naive about the world and overall he hasn't become more mature at all. Think about Jill's development in just one arc, she was rather deep for a kid character and its a shame Isidro is rather bland. Would have preferred Rickert in Guts company than this Shounen cliche. It's like you want him to become a completely different person. Character development can occur even if the person is the same... Aardwolf94 said: How does that make Schierke compelling? Her being so mature and brave for her age makes her unrealistic and too perfect. She always does the right thing, always cares for her team mates etc. its just boring. Her "hate" towards Guts was anything but serious and she already liked him towards the end of the troll story, that was again quite a long time ago. Her being crucial for the party doesn't mean she is a good character either... A magician was an interesting addition to the team but Miura chose to go the most cliche way possible with her character (added with the silly crush on Guts too). How does it make her "a typical loli"? I've never heard anyone describe her like that before and I still don't know what you're getting it from. BS. Aardwolf94 said: Its better done than the rest but the problem is that something like getting off on seeing people being burned doesn't just magically heal so fast. Once she joined Guts party it was like those dark things never happened, almost like it was retconned. Still she is overall the best one out of the current group, just a bit rushed in terms of development. It took a looong time for her to get used to the Elfs, as her prejudice against magic and magical creatures did not go away in a blink. She has a huge sence of guilt and she is trying to redeem herself. Once again, I don't know wth you're talking about. Aardwolf94 said: So his character is still reduced to Farnese..he should have found his own path that would have been more interesting. It has started to happen, more so since Roderick entered to grasp more of Farnese's attention. Serpico is also a fighter and protector of the group as a whole. Aardwolf94 said: Its silly to compare Guts current party with Judeau & co. Those poor guys never got the same amount of focus, if they did they would be much better characters since Miura was a stronger writer back then. It's silly to complain that the character development is not enough and then praise characters that got a lot less of it. Aardwolf94 said: Its not just about Guts party, its about Guts, Casca and Griffith too. They used to be such complex characters and now are just a shell of their former self. Well, people change. They're around 25 years old know. Most 25 year olds are shells of their former teen selfs. They're still amazing characters, so I call BS again. You might wanna just stop reading the manga then since you dislike it so much. I've honestly never heard someone criticize the manga this much without having dropped it earlier on... Yeah I do because his personality as it stands is obnoxious and as cliche Shounen as it gets. And looking at Guts and Farnese..obviously good character development changes a person so you are wrong there. Isidro is as if an even more annoying version of Naruto was suddenly dropped into the Berserk world and that wouldnt be a problem if it the archtype was subverted (it wasnt). It makes her boring and a typical cute and nice loli character (add to that the crush on Guts and even a fanservice scene..), something you see so often in anime. Berserk was usually above that. I explained what I was talking about. I think the darker elements of Farnese's character disappeared way too quickly and its like those things never happened. No its not. Judeau, Corkus etc. were never supposed to be main characters, the focus was completely on Guts, Griffith and Casca (the three leads) and Miura did a damm great job with them. They were complex, fleshed out and flawed. These days the focus is on Guts (barely even), Schierke, Farnese and Isidro. And these characters suck and lack any sort of depth compared to the previous leads. That sounds like an excuse to me. So they are less compelling because they are older now? Wtf. No Casca sucks now because Miura reduced her to a cheap plot device for more than half the story & made her retarded. Griffith is lackluster because we dont get any insight to his plans and motivations, he is just there.. Guts character has stagnated since he realized he had new friends. Now he is just boring Papa guts with generic one liners and only there to fight generic monsters, he barely gets any focus in his own manga! You seem to have no real argument, just calling it all BS..thats rather weak mate. Try a bit harder at least Anyway I didnt drop it because I kept hoping it would get better..sadly not. The mangaka is also lazy and only releases a few short chapters per year so its not exactly much of an effort to keep up |
Aardwolf94Oct 23, 2017 9:52 AM
Aardwolf94 said: You seem to have no real argument, just calling it all BS..thats rather weak mate. Try a bit harder at least Nice strawman. I've piled up my arguments quite well, but they don't get through to you you in the slightest, making this the most pointless discussion about Berserk I've had on MAL so far. I'm done. |
zodd0 said: Aardwolf94 said: You seem to have no real argument, just calling it all BS..thats rather weak mate. Try a bit harder at least Nice strawman. I've piled up my arguments quite well, but they don't get through to you you in the slightest, making this the most pointless discussion about Berserk I've had on MAL so far. I'm done. Well its obvious that you are a huge fan of Berserk and don't like people bashing it one bit. Since I didn't agree with your rather weak arguments (despite explaining why) you got a bit angry and think this was pointless... Oh well, happens I guess. |
Aardwolf94Oct 23, 2017 10:56 AM
Aardwolf94 said: Well its obvious that you are a huge fan of Berserk and don't like people bashing it one bit. Since I didn't agree with your rather weak arguments (despite explaining why) you got a bit angry and think this was pointless... Oh well, happens I guess. I've had plenty of dicussions with people who I disagree with on Berserk. You're the only one so far whose mind is completely closed and unable to grasp anything I'm saying even in the slightest. I'm not angry, just slightly annoyed over the time I've wasted. You're the one who seems angry in the first place over the manga being so highly rated. |
zodd0 said: Aardwolf94 said: Well its obvious that you are a huge fan of Berserk and don't like people bashing it one bit. Since I didn't agree with your rather weak arguments (despite explaining why) you got a bit angry and think this was pointless... Oh well, happens I guess. I've had plenty of dicussions with people who I disagree with on Berserk. You're the only one so far whose mind is completely closed and unable to grasp anything I'm saying even in the slightest. I'm not angry, just slightly annoyed over the time I've wasted. You're the one who seems angry in the first place over the manga being so highly rated. I could say the same about you. I explained multiple times how Isidro for an example is an awful character with barely any real development etc. and you just keep denying it. But of course me not agreeing with your arguments (I understood what you said just fine) is whats wrong here..right. I'm not angry at all, just confused at why this manga is rated so highly. If it was just about the GA arc I would understand. |
| Really wish the mangaka somehow maintained the quality from the first half. It already went downhill after Lost Children but it was still good until Schierke joined Guts party. Then it goes to shit and feels like a different series, more like some generic Shounen. |
Aardwolf94 said: Really wish the mangaka somehow maintained the quality from the first half. It already went downhill after Lost Children but it was still good until Schierke joined Guts party. Then it goes to shit and feels like a different series, more like some generic Shounen. It's borderline impossible. The Golden Age arc, culminating in the Eclipse, is not only the pinnacle of Berserk but the pinnacle of narrative. Everything surrounding it, including the Lost Children arc, Conviction arc, and even the Black Swordsman arc, was built on the foundation of the GA arc and basically rode that wave. We are getting further and further away from the Golden Age arc and the Eclipse. the wave created from then is not as powerful and the state of the current story is the result. In order for Berserk to reach the levels of the first half of the series, Miura would have to introduce another "climax" that at least enters GA (Eclipse) territory. It might take a hell of a lot of time though, since we are only now getting back one of the characters who drove the story in Casca (let's be real Guts' new crew is nowhere near as compelling or developed as the GA arc crew or even Godo). Something that can hope to match the eclipse needs some kind of depth behind it. Not just large fancy battles, power ups or some shit. Let's see if Berserk would have to live up to its namesake once again. like when Guts fought 100 soldiers, during the Eclipse, fighting the count/rosaline/the priest. Let's hope that Berserk once again focuses on the internal state of character rather than external forces like the Berserk armor + group fighting. That said, Berserk is still the GOAT |
| I feel like people misuse/ overgeneralize the term "shounen" and I think this post is proof of that claim. Guess what? Isidoro is a shounen. In case you were misinformed, "shounen" literally translates to "young boy/ young man", so you're criticizing a character for whom is a young man, for being a young man? Then you called him a protagonist? Guts is still the protagonist, Isidoro is just a new addition to the main cast that develops over time. This just shows how ill informed of proper criticisms you and everyone who argues your points are on this post. Most of them are heavily subjective anyways. I think the only one dumbing things down is you. |
Draconix814 said: I feel like people misuse/ overgeneralize the term "shounen" and I think this post is proof of that claim. Guess what? Isidoro is a shounen. In case you were misinformed, "shounen" literally translates to "young boy/ young man", so you're criticizing a character for whom is a young man, for being a young man? Then you called him a protagonist? Guts is still the protagonist, Isidoro is just a new addition to the main cast that develops over time. This just shows how ill informed of proper criticisms you and everyone who argues your points are on this post. Most of them are heavily subjective anyways. I think the only one dumbing things down is you. No I'm saying he has typical annoying Shounen protagonist characteristics and doesn't fit the world of Berserk. I'm bashing him because he has had zero development even though its been 20 volumes since he appeared. And no you are the one dumbing down my arguments and picking out shit because you don't actually have anything say against my actual criticism. Nice try ! |
RandomChampion said: Aardwolf94 said: Really wish the mangaka somehow maintained the quality from the first half. It already went downhill after Lost Children but it was still good until Schierke joined Guts party. Then it goes to shit and feels like a different series, more like some generic Shounen. It's borderline impossible. The Golden Age arc, culminating in the Eclipse, is not only the pinnacle of Berserk but the pinnacle of narrative. Everything surrounding it, including the Lost Children arc, Conviction arc, and even the Black Swordsman arc, was built on the foundation of the GA arc and basically rode that wave. We are getting further and further away from the Golden Age arc and the Eclipse. the wave created from then is not as powerful and the state of the current story is the result. In order for Berserk to reach the levels of the first half of the series, Miura would have to introduce another "climax" that at least enters GA (Eclipse) territory. It might take a hell of a lot of time though, since we are only now getting back one of the characters who drove the story in Casca (let's be real Guts' new crew is nowhere near as compelling or developed as the GA arc crew or even Godo). Something that can hope to match the eclipse needs some kind of depth behind it. Not just large fancy battles, power ups or some shit. Let's see if Berserk would have to live up to its namesake once again. like when Guts fought 100 soldiers, during the Eclipse, fighting the count/rosaline/the priest. Let's hope that Berserk once again focuses on the internal state of character rather than external forces like the Berserk armor + group fighting. That said, Berserk is still the GOAT You make valid points & I guess we can only hope for the best. I don't think Berserk is the GOAT, not anymore at least. You said it yourself, instead of interesting character exploration & great villians we get flashy fights against dumb monsters and power ups, instead of well developed characters we have Guts boring JRPG group who kind of suck etc. The series just feels shallow now compared to the the first 20 volumes. I think its likely that Miura just changed and prefers to write a simpler more typical story and characters now instead of the dark, really compelling stuff. |
| I mean, the manga is here from 1989 so the "downhill" was only a matter of time. |
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Aardwolf94 said: Draconix814 said: I feel like people misuse/ overgeneralize the term "shounen" and I think this post is proof of that claim. Guess what? Isidoro is a shounen. In case you were misinformed, "shounen" literally translates to "young boy/ young man", so you're criticizing a character for whom is a young man, for being a young man? Then you called him a protagonist? Guts is still the protagonist, Isidoro is just a new addition to the main cast that develops over time. This just shows how ill informed of proper criticisms you and everyone who argues your points are on this post. Most of them are heavily subjective anyways. I think the only one dumbing things down is you. No I'm saying he has typical annoying Shounen protagonist characteristics and doesn't fit the world of Berserk. I'm bashing him because he has had zero development even though its been 20 volumes since he appeared. And no you are the one dumbing down my arguments and picking out shit because you don't actually have anything say against my actual criticism. Nice try ! How doesn't he fit in the world of Berserk, exactly? He was a little thief on the run his entire life and had nothing to do with apostles until he started to look up to Guts. And yes, he does develop, but in the same way a knucklehead kid would. Like I said, he's a young boy, and young boys especially, hm (?), a thief, for whom doesn't want to get close to other people or show weakness ((like Guts) I wonder why he admires him) will mature as they age. Also, big points in his development/maturation occurred during the Falcon of the Millennium Empire Arc, specifically during the Evil Horde chapters (especially the conversation with Morgan and his first time using magic/ fighting apostles) and in the Fantasia Arc, with the introduction of Isma. Now let's go back to my original argument, which I stated that you overgeneralized "shounen" and tried to use that as a criticism. Like I said, shounen just means young boy, and if you want to categorize him under the umbrella of "annoying" shounen protagonists, you see that most of them are young boys as well. Now are all young boys awful characters? If you say yes, then you are close minded. If you say no, you aren't close minded. It's as simple as that. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that generalizing one character into an archetype, then criticizing them for being in that archetype without looking for ways they might break the mold, or perhaps improve on the mold, or perhaps fit just right in the mold without hindering the experience, is unjustified and improper. This can be said for all the characters of Berserk that you criticized. Aardwolf94 said: You make valid points & I guess we can only hope for the best. I don't think Berserk is the GOAT, not anymore at least. You said it yourself, instead of interesting character exploration & great villians we get flashy fights against dumb monsters and power ups, instead of well developed characters we have Guts boring JRPG group who kind of suck etc. The series just feels shallow now compared to the the first 20 volumes. I think its likely that Miura just changed and prefers to write a simpler more typical story and characters now instead of the dark, really compelling stuff. Before I go, let me clear this up. Apostles aren't villains. In fact the only "villains" in this franchise are Griffith and the God Hand but like in the Golden Age arc, with all of the kings and generals, the apostles posed a serious threat to them and caused interesting developments to occur in the story or characters. Also, I would ask you how you define "dark and compelling", also "shallow" and "typical", because none of those define good or bad writing, and are about as subjective as people's tastes in anime depending on the person, at least if you don't have justification to support your claim. Let me reiterate, the only one generalizing/ dumbing things down here is you. |
| yss berzonk is shit manga moura is overated! |
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Draconix814 said: Aardwolf94 said: No I'm saying he has typical annoying Shounen protagonist characteristics and doesn't fit the world of Berserk. I'm bashing him because he has had zero development even though its been 20 volumes since he appeared. And no you are the one dumbing down my arguments and picking out shit because you don't actually have anything say against my actual criticism. Nice try ! How doesn't he fit in the world of Berserk, exactly? He was a little thief on the run his entire life and had nothing to do with apostles until he started to look up to Guts. And yes, he does develop, but in the same way a knucklehead kid would. Like I said, he's a young boy, and young boys especially, hm (?), a thief, for whom doesn't want to get close to other people or show weakness ((like Guts) I wonder why he admires him) will mature as they age. Also, big points in his development/maturation occurred during the Falcon of the Millennium Empire Arc, specifically during the Evil Horde chapters (especially the conversation with Morgan and his first time using magic/ fighting apostles) and in the Fantasia Arc, with the introduction of Isma. Now let's go back to my original argument, which I stated that you overgeneralized "shounen" and tried to use that as a criticism. Like I said, shounen just means young boy, and if you want to categorize him under the umbrella of "annoying" shounen protagonists, you see that most of them are young boys as well. Now are all young boys awful characters? If you say yes, then you are close minded. If you say no, you aren't close minded. It's as simple as that. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that generalizing one character into an archetype, then criticizing them for being in that archetype without looking for ways they might break the mold, or perhaps improve on the mold, or perhaps fit just right in the mold without hindering the experience, is unjustified and improper. This can be said for all the characters of Berserk that you criticized. Aardwolf94 said: You make valid points & I guess we can only hope for the best. I don't think Berserk is the GOAT, not anymore at least. You said it yourself, instead of interesting character exploration & great villians we get flashy fights against dumb monsters and power ups, instead of well developed characters we have Guts boring JRPG group who kind of suck etc. The series just feels shallow now compared to the the first 20 volumes. I think its likely that Miura just changed and prefers to write a simpler more typical story and characters now instead of the dark, really compelling stuff. Before I go, let me clear this up. Apostles aren't villains. In fact the only "villains" in this franchise are Griffith and the God Hand but like in the Golden Age arc, with all of the kings and generals, the apostles posed a serious threat to them and caused interesting developments to occur in the story or characters. Also, I would ask you how you define "dark and compelling", also "shallow" and "typical", because none of those define good or bad writing, and are about as subjective as people's tastes in anime depending on the person, at least if you don't have justification to support your claim. Let me reiterate, the only one generalizing/ dumbing things down here is you. Because he is an incredibly unrealistic character, both in terms of personality (very naive stubborn, Shounen esque dream, doesn't really feel "real" compared to Jill or Kid Guts) and how he doesn't really suffer any real hardships (in a harsh world like Berserk there is no way that a brat like him would survive on his own). He hasn't had any meaningful development. He is still the same annoying naive kid, there for cheesy humor. He got closer to the group I guess but after 20 volumes thats not nearly enough. Not my fault Miura hasn't really done anything more with Isidro, he doesn't break (or improve) the mold and sadly can be defined as an archtype without any real depth. And he does hinder the experience, considering the amount of screentime he gets. Well the count and Rosine were villians, not typical one's but still they fit the definition. I have already talked about that in my other posts but I can do it again. Berserk is just shallow and generic now in terms of story and characters. Guts has been the stale "Daddy" of the group for like 13 volumes. His arc was basically finished once he accepted the new group, since then he is the generic action hero only there to kill monsters and give cheesy as fuck one liners. He has no real interesting relationship with any of the crew members either. Griffith is just a boring robot now (it makes sense why, doesn't make his character any less boring now, especially compared to how he was in the GA arc). Casca was retarded for 20 volumes, sure now she came back but it still took too long. The three leads are just a shell of their former selfs. And now on Guts JRPG group which is even worse. Isidro..no need to say more. Schierke is just the typical OP loli with no real flaws and she is a bad case of a writer's pet (ridiculous amounts of focus for such a boring bland character). Her crush on Guts is cringeworthy too. Both kids are just bad tropes, huge shame since Miura showed with Kid Guts and Jill how to handle more human interesting kid characters. Farnese, the only one with development still was handled badly since all her dark desires were basically written off once she cut her hair. The development wasn't gradual, like with Guts (from GA to BS to Conviction) but just forced. Serpico's whole character still revolves around Farnese, nothing interesting happened there for 20 volumes as well. Puck who was once a real character has been flanderized post Conviction, just a complete joke. The story turned into a repetitive safe JRPG adventure after Conviction. The same old Guts & co. visiting some place and killing boring monsters with no character (unlike Rosine and the count). The Journey to Elfheim was milked for 17 volumes (with lots of pointless detours) which is just ridiculous, the pacing is awful now. The world doesn't feel dangerous anymore, the amount of humor just increased (we have like 4 comic relief characters now). Griffith's boring war with Ganishka wasn't much better. Like I said he is a rather boring character now and it wasn't interesting to watch since he already had God Mode on. The new band of hawk is full of the same knight archtype, no real variety like before (also since when did apostles become fodder and stop looking creepy). The ending of Griffith's story was good though and Ganishka is a good villian How far Berserk has fallen can be observed when you compare the Lost children and Sea god stories. Both seem to be just side stories but one has a compelling very human villian, explores Guts in a meaningful way, is dark as hell and the other has a shit "villian" with no character, lots of unnecessary humor that kills all the tension and bland characters. No, its more like Berserk fans just can't handle criticism and for some reason (is it just because of the GA arc?) this manga has become immune to it and its not popular to bash it, unlike many other popular manga. |
Aardwolf94Apr 8, 2018 11:37 AM
Yukitaze said: yss berzonk is shit manga moura is overated! Only post Conviction |
no only post the first site because it gatsu fucked and killed dat bitch |
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| Man I'm disappointed in myself that I read shit coming from this airhead |
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harshtruth said: Man I'm disappointed in myself that I read shit coming from this airhead Another triggered Berserk fan with no arguments. Keep em coming, lol. |
Aardwolf94Apr 8, 2018 12:38 PM
| Why do I need to waste time arguing with someone that strawmans and comes up with compelling arguments like "Isidro is too shounen"...LMAO. Smoking crack is healthier. |
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harshtruth said: Why do I need to waste time arguing with someone that strawmans and comes up with compelling arguments like "Isidro is too shounen"...LMAO. Smoking crack is healthier. So then why even make a useless post then? Just to show that my posts made you butthurt? Lol, thanks for letting me know I guess. And nice one, picking just one part of my argument. Are you really going to say that Isidro is a compelling & well developed character? Forget the Shounen part that triggered you and the other guy so much, think about how his character was introduced 20 volumes ago and yet is still the same obnoxious naive kid with no real meaningful development/maturing happening. Judeau who was just a side character in the GA arc and didn't receive nearly as much screentime was a much better character who felt real and wasn't some annoying trope. Sadly Miura has lost his ability to write realistic characters (like Judeau and Jill) and prefers cliche archtypes like Isidro and Schierke and the fanbase eats it up. I guess mindless circlejerk is much better. DAE think Berserk is the GOAT and Miura is perfection? |
Aardwolf94Apr 8, 2018 12:41 PM
Aardwolf94 said: I could but it's been well-established that you're one of the children that puts their fingers in their ears and go "LALALALALA" so why even bother and type paragraphs like 3 of the other posters on here for you to make the same BS argument? Only butthurt one here is you since you feel the need to make a thread where you can't even form a proper argument lol. And what a surprise you're a One Piece and Vinland Saga fan. It's ironic that it's mostly these fans that have a hate boner for Berserk...u mad Berserk is tops bruh? So then why even make a useless post then? Just to show that my posts made you butthurt? Lol And nice one, picking just one part of my argument. Are you really going to say that Isidro is a compelling & well developed character? Forget the Shounen part that triggered you and the other guy so much, think about how his character was introduced 20 volumes ago and yet is still the same obnoxious naive kid with no real maturation happening. But I guess mindless circlejerk is much better. DAE think Berserk is the GOAT and Miura is perfection? |
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harshtruth said: Aardwolf94 said: I could but it's been well-established that you're one of the children that puts their fingers in their ears and go "LALALALALA" so why even bother and type paragraphs like 3 of the other posters on here for you to make the same BS argument? Only butthurt one here is you since you feel the need to make a thread where you can't even form a proper argument lol. And what a surprise you're a One Piece and Vinland Saga fan. It's ironic that it's mostly these fans that have a hate boner for Berserk...u mad Berserk is tops bruh? So then why even make a useless post then? Just to show that my posts made you butthurt? Lol And nice one, picking just one part of my argument. Are you really going to say that Isidro is a compelling & well developed character? Forget the Shounen part that triggered you and the other guy so much, think about how his character was introduced 20 volumes ago and yet is still the same obnoxious naive kid with no real maturation happening. But I guess mindless circlejerk is much better. DAE think Berserk is the GOAT and Miura is perfection? No, they just made weak arguments. Isidro being nicer to the group now is not meaningful development for a character who has been important for 20 volumes, its laughable (just an example). I have posted many arguments, they just aren't "proper arguments" because you are a mindless fanboy. Nope, I don't care for MAL rankings. Its clear you are the butthurt & insecure one considering how worked up you are getting over this whole deal, lol. What do One Piece and Vinland Saga have to do with this discussion..and says who? One Piece and Berserk are completely different anyway (this would make sense if it was a discussion about One Piece and other popular Shounen) and Vinland Saga fans are usually Berserk fans as well, even if they prefer the former. Nothing ironic about such a baseless silly statement but its no surprise coming from you. You mad that Berserk is actually being bashed and not everyone thinks its some sort of perfect masterpiece? |
Aardwolf94 said: How am I worked up? I'm making fun of you and having a laugh. You seem way more on edge...wanna talk?No, they just made weak arguments. Isidro being nicer to the group now is not meaningful development for a character who has been important for 20 volumes, its laughable (just an example). I have posted many arguments, they just aren't "proper arguments" because you are a mindless insecure fanboy. Nope, I don't care for MAL rankings. Its clear you are the butthurt one considering how worked up you are getting over this whole deal, lol. What do One Piece and Vinland Saga have to do with this discussion..and says who? One Piece and Berserk are completely different anyway and Vinland Saga fans are usually Berserk fans as well. Nothing ironic about such a baseless silly statement. |
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harshtruth said: Aardwolf94 said: How am I worked up? I'm making fun of you and having a laugh. You seem way more on edge...wanna talk?No, they just made weak arguments. Isidro being nicer to the group now is not meaningful development for a character who has been important for 20 volumes, its laughable (just an example). I have posted many arguments, they just aren't "proper arguments" because you are a mindless insecure fanboy. Nope, I don't care for MAL rankings. Its clear you are the butthurt one considering how worked up you are getting over this whole deal, lol. What do One Piece and Vinland Saga have to do with this discussion..and says who? One Piece and Berserk are completely different anyway and Vinland Saga fans are usually Berserk fans as well. Nothing ironic about such a baseless silly statement. Read your posts again, perfect example of an insecure butthurt fanboy who can't deal with his favourite manga being bashed and who has no real arguments (instead you try to distract with cheap insults, bring in other manga into the discussion, keep making useless posts etc.), lol. Try harder! |
Aardwolf94 said: Lmao the hypocrisy is too strong here, sure you don't wanna talk? Sounds like you need the help you can getRead your posts again, perfect example of an insecure salty fanboy with no real arguments (instead you try to distract with cheap insults, bringing in other manga into the discussion etc.), lol. Try harder |
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harshtruth said: Aardwolf94 said: Lmao the hypocrisy is too strong here, sure you don't wanna talk? Sounds like you need the help you can getRead your posts again, perfect example of an insecure salty fanboy with no real arguments (instead you try to distract with cheap insults, bringing in other manga into the discussion etc.), lol. Try harder You are the one so crazy about a manga that you insulted me (after seeing your favourite manga being bashed) instead of having a proper discussion like an adult and then have the nerve to act like I'm the one in need of help. Lol, this is a waste of time. Stop derailing the thread, its not going anywhere. You will just have to deal with it (or keep throwing tantrums). |
Aardwolf94 said: I doubt you even know what an adult discussion looks like. I insulted you because that's all you're worth. You talk about proper discussions...You are the one so crazy about a manga that you insulted me (after seeing your favourite manga being bashed) instead of having a proper discussion like an adult and then have the nerve to act like I'm the one in need of help. Aardwolf94 said: You seem to have no real argument, just calling it all BS..thats rather weak mate. Try a bit harder at least Aardwolf94 said: No, its more like Berserk fans just can't handle criticism and for some reason (is it just because of the GA arc?) this manga has become immune to it and its not popular to bash it, unlike many other popular manga. Aardwolf94 said: And no you are the one dumbing down my arguments and picking out shit because you don't actually have anything say against my actual criticism. Nice try ! These are your replies from the "adult discussions" you had. You sound like a dismissive dick that throws his weight around when he weighs less than a feather. You talk a lot about criticism but criticism can only be made with valid points and your buzzwords that you keep throwing about isn't criticism but your own inept ability to hold a proper discussion or even state valid points. Aardwolf94 said: For something to derail, it's has to be on course to a destination. Your train didn't even leave the station so you're right about it not going anywhere...hey look, your right about something.#staySALTYLol, this is a waste of time. Stop derailing the thread, its not going anywhere. |
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harshtruth said: Aardwolf94 said: I doubt you even know what an adult discussion looks like. I insulted you because that's all you're worth. You talk about proper discussions...You are the one so crazy about a manga that you insulted me (after seeing your favourite manga being bashed) instead of having a proper discussion like an adult and then have the nerve to act like I'm the one in need of help. Aardwolf94 said: You seem to have no real argument, just calling it all BS..thats rather weak mate. Try a bit harder at least Aardwolf94 said: No, its more like Berserk fans just can't handle criticism and for some reason (is it just because of the GA arc?) this manga has become immune to it and its not popular to bash it, unlike many other popular manga. Aardwolf94 said: And no you are the one dumbing down my arguments and picking out shit because you don't actually have anything say against my actual criticism. Nice try ! These are your replies from the "adult discussions" you had. You sound like a dismissive dick that throws his weight around when he weighs less than a feather. You talk a lot about criticism but criticism can only be made with valid points and your buzzwords that you keep throwing about isn't criticism but your own inept ability to hold a proper discussion or even state valid points. Aardwolf94 said: For something to derail, it's has to be on course to a destination. Your train didn't even leave the station so you're right about it not going anywhere...hey look, your right about something.#staySALTYLol, this is a waste of time. Stop derailing the thread, its not going anywhere. Why should I discuss like an adult with an obnoxious butthurt kid like you? You are the one who started acting like a dick because you were triggered by my posts. Instead of actually making any arguments like the other Berserk fans here, you made a useless post calling me an airhead and then a child, then you said I need help (and you still keep going even in this post) etc. all that because you are such a rabid fanboy that you can't handle any criticism. I just returned the favour and now you are crying (lol) and acting like I was the dismissive dick? This is really getting embarrassing..just stop. And of course my points aren't valid for a mindless fanboy like you, surprise surprise. And for someone who doesn't want to waste any time, you sure keep going with the useless shitty posts. Grow the fuck up. Since you really want to have the last word, I'll give it to you. |
Aardwolf94Apr 8, 2018 1:49 PM
Aardwolf94 said: [Read your posts again, perfect example of an insecure butthurt fanboy who can't deal with his favourite manga being bashed and who has no real arguments (instead you try to distract with cheap insults, bring in other manga into the discussion, keep making useless posts etc.), lol. Try harder! Don't pretend like you've ever been interesting in having a civil discussion. You're on a personal crusade to tell everyone how shit you think Berserk becomes after a certain arc. It's cringey. |
zodd0 said: Aardwolf94 said: [Read your posts again, perfect example of an insecure butthurt fanboy who can't deal with his favourite manga being bashed and who has no real arguments (instead you try to distract with cheap insults, bring in other manga into the discussion, keep making useless posts etc.), lol. Try harder! Don't pretend like you've ever been interesting in having a civil discussion. You're on a personal crusade to tell everyone how shit you think Berserk becomes after a certain arc. It's cringey. Yet I'm not the one who started with the insults. I made one thread asking if others feel the same about Berserk going downhill, thats it. What a "crusade". But fanboys getting defensive and not being able to deal with criticism..now thats cringeworthy. I didn't know this subforum was just for mindless circlejerk and praise for this manga. I remember you getting worked up a bit as well (at least you didn't insult me), just because I didn't agree with your arguments (even though you didn't agree with mine either, yet because I disagree I'm apparently not interested in a civil discussion) in our discussion so of course you consider me bashing Berserk cringey. |
Aardwolf94Apr 8, 2018 2:04 PM
Aardwolf94 said: Yet I'm not the one who started with the insults. I made one thread asking if others feel the same about Berserk going downhill, thats it. But fanboys getting defensive and not being able to deal with criticism..now thats cringeworthy. I didn't know this subforum was just for mindless circlejerk and praise for this manga. I remember you getting worked up a bit as well (but at least you didn't start throwing insults) in our discussion so of course you consider me bashing Berserk cringey. If I got "worked up" it was because you were like a wall impossible to have a discussion with. Sure, you wanted to bash Berserk, and I didn't mind that. But you didn't want to have an actual discussion about it, which was slightly irritating. |
zodd0 said: Aardwolf94 said: Yet I'm not the one who started with the insults. I made one thread asking if others feel the same about Berserk going downhill, thats it. But fanboys getting defensive and not being able to deal with criticism..now thats cringeworthy. I didn't know this subforum was just for mindless circlejerk and praise for this manga. I remember you getting worked up a bit as well (but at least you didn't start throwing insults) in our discussion so of course you consider me bashing Berserk cringey. If I got "worked up" it was because you were like a wall impossible to have a discussion with. Sure, you wanted to bash Berserk, and I didn't mind that. But you didn't want to have an actual discussion about it, which was slightly irritating. What makes you say that though? Just because I didn't agree with your arguments? Couldn't I say the same about you? Its not like you agreed either I understood your arguments, I just didn't think they were strong enough, like for an example Isidro's development. Him just getting closer to the group is just not enough. after 20 volumes he needed much more to actually grow as a character. |
Aardwolf94Apr 8, 2018 2:07 PM
zodd0 said: Lol, why should we even care...look at him play victim lmao. He can't even form his own rebuttal so he takes ours and twists it. It's seriously hilarious.Don't pretend like you've ever been interesting in having a civil discussion. You're on a personal crusade to tell everyone how shit you think Berserk becomes after a certain arc. It's cringey. |
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| I am as big a Berserk fanboy as anybody (watched anime 6 times, read manga 7 times) let's be real though. post conviction arc isnt in the same league as conviction and earlier, and none of the new stuff even holds a candle to golden age arc. Even with the series going downhill (for now - it's not even over), it is still the GOAT |
RandomChampion said: I am as big a Berserk fanboy as anybody (watched anime 6 times, read manga 7 times) let's be real though. post conviction arc isnt in the same league as conviction and earlier, and none of the new stuff even holds a candle to golden age arc. Even with the series going downhill (for now - it's not even over), it is still the GOAT Exactly. Post Conviction Berserk is still an average fantasy manga but the series just set such a high standard that I expected much more. The Golden Age arc specifically is probably my favourite arc, in any manga, just masterfully crafted. |
| lmao at the salt in this thread |
| It seems like this guy wants Berserk to be One Piece or Naruto where they keep up the same charade for 60+ volumes with massive leaps of development every time an arc comes up. I can't even respond to any of the posts civilly because of how retarded and worst of all, redundant they are, so I'll say this. Everything past Conviction is tracking back the same ground as the Golden Age arc, only with a drastically new coat of paint. Guts begins the Golden Age as kid being cared for by a stray mercenary group, kills the mercenary caring for him after he betrays Guts, becomes a loner and winds up back in a stray mercenary group, for whom he considered his family. Ironically, Griffith then betrayed that family and becomes a loner again with the responsibility of one other. He leaves that one other to be alone. He then realizes that one other is the only way to escape from his loneliness, so he does his best to save her from death. After this, multiple people begin looking up to him for his bravery (like Griffith ahem) and want to join his party, regardless of the obstacles (Band of the Hawk ahem). They become his new family, but he is too afraid to get close to them as he has too many experiences with losing that family (Gambino, Band of the Hawk), and he is constantly in danger. But somewhere deep down he realizes he can't go on without this family (keeping himself and Casca (two people with the brands of sacrifice (loneliness))) and that he needs something to change so he can live happy lives with them. Going into more detail would require a reread, but that is Berserk's core structure in a nutshell and it building to the point of decisiveness. Can Guts make a happy life for himself or is he doomed to live in an everlasting Hell? But more importantly notice how the narrative is built around the backbone of interaction or lack thereof with society or other people. Berserk isn't about the gore or the apostles, just like how Gintama isn't about the action or the Amanto. I seriously doubt any of this will get through to you, but if it does, even a little bit, recognize how little you are actually looking at depth and are just looking your subjectivity. |
-Judar- said: lmao at the salt in this thread This place is practically the Dead Sea, yeah. |
Draconix814 said: It seems like this guy wants Berserk to be One Piece or Naruto where they keep up the same charade for 60+ volumes with massive leaps of development every time an arc comes up. I can't even respond to any of the posts civilly because of how retarded and worst of all, redundant they are, so I'll say this. Everything past Conviction is tracking back the same ground as the Golden Age arc, only with a drastically new coat of paint. Guts begins the Golden Age as kid being cared for by a stray mercenary group, kills the mercenary caring for him after he betrays Guts, becomes a loner and winds up back in a stray mercenary group, for whom he considered his family. Ironically, Griffith then betrayed that family and becomes a loner again with the responsibility of one other. He leaves that one other to be alone. He then realizes that one other is the only way to escape from his loneliness, so he does his best to save her from death. After this, multiple people begin looking up to him for his bravery (like Griffith ahem) and want to join his party, regardless of the obstacles (Band of the Hawk ahem). They become his new family, but he is too afraid to get close to them as he has too many experiences with losing that family (Gambino, Band of the Hawk), and he is constantly in danger. But somewhere deep down he realizes he can't go on without this family (keeping himself and Casca (two people with the brands of sacrifice (loneliness))) and that he needs something to change so he can live happy lives with them. Going into more detail would require a reread, but that is Berserk's core structure in a nutshell and it building to the point of decisiveness. Can Guts make a happy life for himself or is he doomed to live in an everlasting Hell? But more importantly notice how the narrative is built around the backbone of interaction or lack thereof with society or other people. Berserk isn't about the gore or the apostles, just like how Gintama isn't about the action or the Amanto. I seriously doubt any of this will get through to you, but if it does, even a little bit, recognize how little you are actually looking at depth and are just looking your subjectivity. LMAO not sure if srs |
RandomChampion said: Draconix814 said: It seems like this guy wants Berserk to be One Piece or Naruto where they keep up the same charade for 60+ volumes with massive leaps of development every time an arc comes up. I can't even respond to any of the posts civilly because of how retarded and worst of all, redundant they are, so I'll say this. Everything past Conviction is tracking back the same ground as the Golden Age arc, only with a drastically new coat of paint. Guts begins the Golden Age as kid being cared for by a stray mercenary group, kills the mercenary caring for him after he betrays Guts, becomes a loner and winds up back in a stray mercenary group, for whom he considered his family. Ironically, Griffith then betrayed that family and becomes a loner again with the responsibility of one other. He leaves that one other to be alone. He then realizes that one other is the only way to escape from his loneliness, so he does his best to save her from death. After this, multiple people begin looking up to him for his bravery (like Griffith ahem) and want to join his party, regardless of the obstacles (Band of the Hawk ahem). They become his new family, but he is too afraid to get close to them as he has too many experiences with losing that family (Gambino, Band of the Hawk), and he is constantly in danger. But somewhere deep down he realizes he can't go on without this family (keeping himself and Casca (two people with the brands of sacrifice (loneliness))) and that he needs something to change so he can live happy lives with them. Going into more detail would require a reread, but that is Berserk's core structure in a nutshell and it building to the point of decisiveness. Can Guts make a happy life for himself or is he doomed to live in an everlasting Hell? But more importantly notice how the narrative is built around the backbone of interaction or lack thereof with society or other people. Berserk isn't about the gore or the apostles, just like how Gintama isn't about the action or the Amanto. I seriously doubt any of this will get through to you, but if it does, even a little bit, recognize how little you are actually looking at depth and are just looking your subjectivity. LMAO not sure if srs Just watch this video: |
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