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MonoReaper said: I'll be one of the first people to point out contradictory shit that happens in a story, but only if it is (1) relevant enough to warrant it and (2) doesn't have other reasonable explanations. Otherwise its much better to just suspend your disbelief.Ketuekigami said: Mitarai isn't going to become despaired enough over this to mass murder people. I swear you want some Deos Ex level explanation for despair, because brainwashing is actually the most plausible way. Saying the franchise is crumbling as a grossly subjective opinion. You have already decided you hate what the anime is, move on. I love how this anime is going, I will move on too. Hate? I dont hate it i enyjoy every moment of it. I love it. I enjoy it so much that i smile every time the OP starts and grin like a child. But my love for it and the plot issues are two different things. I dont feel that the method by which they were brainwashed is really that relevant overall, what matters is if it was done well, which to me it was. And it wasnt contradictory to really any important facet of the DR universe. Brainwashing in fact clears up a lot of the story overall. Whether you like it or not is up to you. |
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Ketuekigami said: AzuStar said: because the problem is different from most of the problems you listed. the brainwashing here not only contradicts the canon of the series but feels cheap and underwhelming because of it. Junko was suppose to be this calculating "genius" who was able to manipulate these children into serving her using her thousands of "despair techniques" but nope, randomly find a guy who know hypnosis and a book that tells you how to stab the brain and everything's GG. . 1. You want Junko to be able to manipulate people into being mass serial killers without brainwashing? Through charisma and talent? DR was always crazy but that would have been way worse. 2. Amnesia plots feel cheap too, but not in DR. Brainwashing doesnt feel cheap to me here either. 3. The contradictions are irrelevant at best. Its like "this sentence here that has no bearing on the outcome of the story is different". Hitler did it. Napoleon did it. Kim Jong un dose it to this day. They all had their fanatical followers. The all had followers that were going for them to war. That killed the innocent and mass murder every human being if their leader wants it. Heck Kim Jong un stated he as no asshole his fanatical followers believe it. It is way more realistic than some brainwash anime. |
Ahahaha. I love it. |
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| OMG... this episode is really painful to watch ;; Nanami's torture was too much ;; definitely the saddest episode so far. So, Juzo is a gay lol, i can't even surprised with this. Nanami is pretty much dead huh? i wonder what will Izuru/ Hinata do after this ...will we reach bad end? (just like the prologue says). Edit : why everyone being so angry about brainwashing thing? for me it's pretty logical... it's impossible for Junko (even if she has charisma) to bring them despair, she must trigger something, that's why she is the best villain. LOOL bless this post, i love it too |
roppuriSep 15, 2016 8:04 PM
HyperL said: MonoReaper said: That "HOPE" and "DESPAIR" can be a disase is in itself a idiotic concept and even for DR just outright stupdi/bad writing. That fundamental destory much more than it create answeres. Actually i'm preety sure that the Despair in despair disease is just a name...The fact is that the disease create different reactions in the brain depending on the infected, making them change personality, but it's not like it is despair in disease form, is just the name it was given... Than please tell me why do we need Junko if we have such a disase? How will you explain the despair book that has the same effect? It is nonsense even on DR standarts. You could also call it Zombie disease and change the whole gerne. |
MonoReaper said: Ketuekigami said: 1. You want Junko to be able to manipulate people into being mass serial killers without brainwashing? Through charisma and talent? DR was always crazy but that would have been way worse. 2. Amnesia plots feel cheap too, but not in DR. Brainwashing doesnt feel cheap to me here either. 3. The contradictions are irrelevant at best. Its like "this sentence here that has no bearing on the outcome of the story is different". Hitler did it. Napoleon did it. Kim Jong un dose it to this day. They all had their fanatical followers. The all had followers that were going for them to war. That killed the innocent and mass murder every human being if their leader wants it. Heck Kim Jong un stated he as no asshole his fanatical followers believe it. It is way more realistic than some brainwash anime. Are people suffering from malnutrition or lack of education in an impoverished or in an overly nationalistic country really comparable to a bunch of good natured high school students? Those people, and Charles Manson, and others also have people seek them out, join their cause. That is not the case here. That statement is a gross oversimplification. |
KetuekigamiSep 15, 2016 8:05 PM
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JizzyHitler said: i do still think kirigiri is alive but i will admit seeing how they brutally killed chiaki like this does make me think giri really is dead. yeah that's true. as they're my fave girls in both games/shows respectively, i just don't wanna see both of them die and all D: agreed tho, if anything Kirigiri seems much MUCH more likely to survive over Chiaki. she must have like Juzo or Nagito levels of pain tolerance in order to survive but even then, she lost so much blood especially too since she used up so much energy too while talking to Izuru. Kyoko will probably survive cuz all the things like the Cure W popping up and differences in appearance and all from the rest that died via poison. still i'm honestly more on Chiaki because of how much we've seen from her over the show + game and her 2x executions were so painful too. as a huge fan of hers since the beginning of SDR2, i just want all my theories to be right just for her to live :( |
Ketuekigami said: MonoReaper said: Hitler did it. Napoleon did it. Kim Jong un dose it to this day. They all had their fanatical followers. The all had followers that were going for them to war. That killed the innocent and mass murder every human being if their leader wants it. Heck Kim Jong un stated he as no asshole his fanatical followers believe it. It is way more realistic than some brainwash anime. Are people suffering in an impoverished or overly nationalistic country really comparable to a bunch of good natured high school students? Those people, and Charles Manson, and others also have people seek them out, join there cause. That is not the case here. Scientology does it also. The churs does it and has a power monopole around the world wtih followers that believe in an existence named God. You want to deny the case that Junko could corrupt the 77th class not the same way as all these examples did it? With charisma, sweet talk, blackmailing and so on. The possibilities with such things are more logical as a brainwash anime that explains everything. Or how do you explain that Mukuro the way she is without your brainswash anime? How do you explain the Warriors of Hope without the despair anime if Junko cannot gain followers trough sweetalk or any other mean besides brainwashing tools like the despair anime. |
MonoReaper said: Scientoligy offers a kind of hope, everyone is attracted to good fortune. They cant make anyone kill for the hell of it, unless that person was already prone to that kind of thing. If you think that analogy makes sense then you are SERIOUSLY grasping at straws.Ketuekigami said: Are people suffering in an impoverished or overly nationalistic country really comparable to a bunch of good natured high school students? Those people, and Charles Manson, and others also have people seek them out, join there cause. That is not the case here. Scientology does it also. The churs does it and has a power monopole around the world wtih followers that believe in an existence named God. You want to deny the case that Junko could corrupt the 77th class not the same way as all these examples did it? With charisma, sweet talk, blackmailing and so on. The possibilities with such things are more logical as a brainwash anime that explains everything. You are just being increadibly unrealistic. The only pluasable way to turn ORDINARY GOOD NATURED people into malevolent mass serial killers is brainwashing. How do you explain the Warriors of Hope without the despair anime Remember that people suffering their entire lives to where they want to die are esier to influence. You are REALLY grasping at staws, and not even thinking through what you are saying. |
KetuekigamiSep 15, 2016 8:12 PM
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Ketuekigami said: MonoReaper said: Scientoligy offers a kind of hope, everyone is attracted to good fortune. They cant make anyone kill for the hell of it, unless that person was already prone to that kind of thing. If you think that analogy makes sense then you are SERIOUSLY grasping at straws.Scientology does it also. The churs does it and has a power monopole around the world wtih followers that believe in an existence named God. You want to deny the case that Junko could corrupt the 77th class not the same way as all these examples did it? With charisma, sweet talk, blackmailing and so on. The possibilities with such things are more logical as a brainwash anime that explains everything. You are just being increadibly unrealistic. The only pluasable way to turn ORDINARY GOOD NATURED people into malevolent mass serial killers is brainwashing. You seem to be blind to human nature and the history records and actual cases of humans that are easy corrupted trough such means. I will end the discussion because ther is no point. You dont want to see how simple it is to manipulate a person trough such simple means. But instead you accepct the deus ex machina plot explanation. |
MonoReaper said: Ketuekigami said: Scientoligy offers a kind of hope, everyone is attracted to good fortune. They cant make anyone kill for the hell of it, unless that person was already prone to that kind of thing. If you think that analogy makes sense then you are SERIOUSLY grasping at straws. You are just being increadibly unrealistic. The only pluasable way to turn ORDINARY GOOD NATURED people into malevolent mass serial killers is brainwashing. You seem to be blind to human nature and the history records and actual cases of humans that are easy corrupted trough such means. I will end the discussion because ther is no point. You dont want to see how simple it is to manipulate a person trough such simple means. But instead you accepct the deus ex machina plot explanation. Sorry but again, oversimplification, grasping at straws. You really have watched too much GoT and other shit if you think that for real lol And saying the brainwashing is a deas ex rather than charisma being the answer is by far the most ridiculous thing I have read so far. |
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Ketuekigami said: MonoReaper said: You seem to be blind to human nature and the history records and actual cases of humans that are easy corrupted trough such means. I will end the discussion because ther is no point. You dont want to see how simple it is to manipulate a person trough such simple means. But instead you accepct the deus ex machina plot explanation. Sorry but again, oversimplification, grasping at straws. You really have watched too much GoT and other shit if you think that for real lol And saying the brainwashing is a deas ex rather than charisma being the answer is by far the most ridiculous thing I have read so far. Accepct everything that is trown at you and dont question it. Accpect it blindly and believe it. Be ignorant to everything else to facts to ingame facts. Twist arguments and ignore whole walls of text and sentences. Ignore everything that could taint your perfect fanboydom. Tell him Izuru.  |
| This episode fucked me up, fam... |
All hail the Almighty Funyarinpa!... Wait, what do you mean you don't know what it is?! How DARE you! SAY you're sorry!!! APOLOGIZE TO THE FUNYARINPA! ______________________________________________________________________________________ |
| Amnesia is the dumbest Deos Ex plot device and anything that uses it is terrible. It's cheap and easy to use, takes no effort from the writer. Instantly makes any story awful. Fight me IRL. |
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| Holy shit. that was fucking insane, easily the most brutal execution in the series. excluding Another Episode cause i didn't play that one yet. I didn't like the last scene that much, though. i mean she's still alive after all that.. ? that definitely should've been an instant death. and i don't see the point of making Izuru meet her while she's dying, felt like fanservice for the shippers more than anything. also her speech was too cheesy, yes Danganronpa is filled with cheesy optimistic ideologies that eventually get crushed by despair later on, but this was as annoying as Naegi's "hope" speeches. which is saying something. i would've preferred if the final scene was the class falling into despair. |
MightyM16 said: Kirigiri50 said: Actually i want Junko to be alive again and someone should torture her with every single method she use to torture people I would laugh so much It make me cry with happiness seeing her death It will be enjoyable. You would only make Junko happy with that. She gets off on despair I don t care I just want to see Junko get torture ^^ and Die the most painful death Its too bad the bitch is already dead Well if people are complaining about Brainwash no matter how charismatic or skill person is they cannot bring down the world with Charisma and Terroism alone that Unrealistic people. So Junko Brainwashing I accept It makes a lot sense how she manage to Bring the world down make various followers of her little cult. |
DemonDarknightSep 15, 2016 8:36 PM
THIS IS GOLD! Man all waifus in the game gone. Why??? XD |
AzuStar said: because the problem is different from most of the problems you listed. the brainwashing here not only contradicts the canon of the series but feels cheap and underwhelming because of it. Junko was suppose to be this calculating "genius" who was able to manipulate these children into serving her using her thousands of "despair techniques" but nope, randomly find a guy who know hypnosis and a book that tells you how to stab the brain and everything's GG. . Ketuekigami said: 1. You want Junko to be able to manipulate people into being mass serial killers without brainwashing? Through charisma and talent? DR was always crazy but that would have been way worse. i take offense to this when so many people were okay her doing literately this in the first kill game in the earlier episodes. As in she's already done what you consider to be way worse. both ways are brainwashing, normally none of them (expect the mafia people i guess) wouldn't kill. Actually using her ultimate talent of analyzing and focusing in what's unique to each character would have actually been adhering to what was canonically expected, which in itself would've have made it easier to swallow, no matter how much they fucked up the process. (and i did expect fuck ups, really hard to imagine it going smoothly) this hypno-mindbreak situation is actually the most unbelievable out of the two situations to me. From the beginning, we are shown animator's hypo powers aint that strong still they didn't do any lasting effect on Junko. We already know he isn't the ultimate hypnotist so there's no explanation for his mindbreak level skills on the murder files (making someone saw off their head against their will, while their conscious of it? really?). We weren't even told of him doing anything to the monitor's in the trail rooms, yet the ultimates are under his illusion the moment they start watching. 2. Amnesia plots feel cheap too, but not in DR. Brainwashing doesnt feel cheap to me here either. actually im not completely sure of how junko was able to do it but, after DR1, there were atleast enough details on brain altering techniques for me to get a feel. 3. The contradictions are irrelevant at best. Its like "this sentence here that has no bearing on the outcome of the story is different". i don't really understand your quote, but contradictions probably matter to most in a show like this. its suppose to be a campy ending to the series it's based on. If it doesn't atleast connect to/and respect the series it comes from then it doesn't have a leg to stand on since grading it like its a regular anime is pointless. Changing stuff up for a fanbase that came there for what they loved about the series doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I do think that the 11-12 episode limit as well as other problems can explain why dangan's creator took this route but still it's the direction he chose to go w/ his plot. |
AzuStarSep 15, 2016 8:49 PM
| Holy hell, that was painful. Chisa was fucked, now Juzo's fucked, and next is Munakata. D: I normally would hate the two (Juzo and Munakata), but not in this version as much as the Future one. Chiaki being executed like that was quite sad, and even more so when Izuru cried. Now I see how the others became the despairs as well. For some reason, I have a feeling we will see the characters from Danganronpa 1 real soon. Not just the students, but also Jin again (along with possibly Kizakura), as I asked myself where the hell those two are with all of this happening. lol |
AlliedWishesSep 15, 2016 8:52 PM
| Chiaki is first person to get 2 Executions, FML. I don't know how they will spend the remaining two episodes... I had expected them to end on Chiaki, i don't know where they can go from here. |
 Not all anime have happy endings, but you should always be left with something meaningful after you watch one... |
 you're a sick bastard i tell you what |
| "My name is John Locke, and I'm responsible for the well being of this Island" |
| Welp, ok then....... I need to go hijack a battleship to punish Kodaka with. Why do this T~T Seriously though, this hurt really bad. Chiaki didn't deserve this pain. Her dying was largely expected, but not like this. Though I question if it was really necessary to actually show all that, I actually found it a little bit excessive. Either way, I demand an asspull to bring her back along with Kirigiri T~T I didn't fully expect Juuzo to actually like Munakata. I have to admit I chuckled a bit. But still, I raised an eyebrow about he giving in to the blackmail. I mean, sure, he really didn't want that secret to go out, but any sane person could immediately see that Junko NEEDED to be stopped quick. Plus, it's not like he couldn't just say that, but actually tell Munakata later, and then just claim the image is fake or some other excuse if it ever got to Munakata. Its not like he (Munakata) usually bothers to pay much attention to what people he call "despair" say. I don't really care about the whole brainwashing-is-cheap-or-not argument, too busy grieving over our sweet cinnamon roll Chiaki. May her adorable soul rest in peace. T~T You da real MVP XD |
| Oh yeah finally confirmed that Juzo is in love with Munakata. :) JuzoxMunakata |
Shion657Sep 15, 2016 9:08 PM
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LordGreenWolf said: Chiaki is first person to get 2 Executions, FML. I don't know how they will spend the remaining two episodes... I had expected them to end on Chiaki, i don't know where they can go from here. We will see what will happen to Munakata, definitely. And I have a high feeling we'll see the students from DR1 again, along with Jin Kirigiri and possibly Koichi Kizakura again. This made my day |
AlliedWishesSep 15, 2016 9:16 PM
| kirigiri then this BibleThump |
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| I'm not the most knowledgable when it comes to the DanganRonpa-verse, but for people complaining that the SDR2 cast falling into Despair via brainwashing is stupid and too simple, that's kinda how Junko does things, doesn't she? She hates lingering on any one thing since she gets bored of it way too quickly, so she probably tried to find the fastest and the easiest possible way for her to go through with her plan, and she struck gold when she found Mitarai and his brainwashing abilities. In other words, it is totally Junko-like to use the simplest method, which turned out to be brainwashing. Now I know there are plenty of evidences being thrown around from past games and novels and all that, but from what I can gather, this doesn't seem too far-fetched. Also sorry if this was mentioned in an earlier post. I was reading through the forums, but just couldn't go through every one of them. |
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| REst In Peice Gamer Girl 1993-2010 It is times like these that I just like to re watch Junko's exectuion. |
| this episode was painful ;_; i expected chiaki to die sooner or later, but wouldn't have thought it would be so cruel. |
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| Lol @ juuzo went full gay on munakata :))))) Maybe that's why Izuru plotted the latest killing game, because he knew that every single future foundation members are corrupted as fck. I had to watch this ep at 200% speed, those nanami scenes are so painful to watch :( |
| OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This episode was sad & crazy. |
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| This episode was indeed really painfull to watch... RIP Chiaki, you were one of the best girl this season. Her death was reeaaaaly predictable but the way it happened took me by surprise, that was brutal ! I'm not that upset over the brainwashing stuff but I felt like it was a bit rushed. It only took them half of an ep to become Ultimate Despairs (and only one video to watch) while I was hoping it would be a slow progression... But sure now that I think about it something quick and expeditious like that suits Junko best Anyway I really wonder what's going to happen in the last two episodes ! |
| I hope.. Relationships between juuzo and munakata gonna be explained later in danganronpa gaiden: killer killer :P fucking episode! |
We did this every day that summer. There wasn’t a day we missed.  "I love you, air conditioner." |
| First of all, the brainwashing part is still bullshit, I was expecting something much more intricate and original but no, brainwashing is the way to go. Derp! Second SAKAKURA CONFIRMED GAY SAKAKURA CONFIRMED GAY SAKAKURA CONFIRMED GAY I love that Dangan Ronpa actually seems to include "real" LGBT characters (Chihiro, Komaeda, Mikan and now Munakata), not just "I'm not actually gay!" fuckboiis/girls who're only there for the sake of fanservice. Third NANAMI MY SWEET HONEY BUN NOOOOOOO This was so painful to watch, I know they probably did it just for the sake of mindless gore but having to witness a character I love going through that... painful, just painfulCute AF I wonder if he's single |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
HyperL said: Man...People are ok with: 1. A single genius girl causing the whole world to start killing each other 2. Ultimate Bullshit Komaeda powers 3. Super advanced AI's 4. Virtual reality 5. Super advanced memory erasing/editing technology 6. Robots and automated machines of all kinds 7. 30% percent Hagakure powers (they're very low but they still there) 8. Toko's super overpowered alternative personality (She could jump like 100m no problem) 9. Fucking megaphone shaped weapon that can control eletric stuff in various ways (Even make them dance) 10. Komaru's hidden power to see, be possessed, and talk with spirits 11. Seiko's drugs that are capable of changing the physical capabilities of on individual and even instantly heal injuries And much more... But they can't handle some fucking brainwashing technics applied to a video, making people go insane... This. Danganronpa *is* over-the-top, get over with it. Also: That was one of the most brutal and heartbreaking death scenes that I ever saw. Chiaki was amazing even in her last seconds and each scene was really despair inducing. |
| Chiaki really clinged on to life a bit longer than what felt believable there... but whatever it's Danganronpa after all And speaking of which, people complaining about the whole video brainwashing being unrealistic are just being silly; everything about DR has always been super unrealistic |
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Comic_Sans said: First of all, the brainwashing part is still bullshit, I was expecting something much more intricate and original but no, brainwashing is the way to go. Derp! I can't really say many of the things in Danganronpa as being original and the sort. Just mostly exaggerated. I can understand people not liking brainwashing and calling it BS and the like, but I can say that regarding many of the things in Danganronpa in general, so this isn't really anything new to me, lol Comic_Sans said: Second SAKAKURA CONFIRMED GAY SAKAKURA CONFIRMED GAY SAKAKURA CONFIRMED GAY I love that Dangan Ronpa actually seems to include "real" LGBT characters (Chihiro, Komaeda, Mikan and now Munakata), not just "I'm not actually gay!" fuckboiis/girls who're only there for the sake of fanservice. lol I always love seeing the type of excited reactions of a character revealing to be as such, but I never really found it that big of a deal to get so excited over. They're just homosexual. Doesn't really make me change my opinion about the character (that being said, I still hate Juzo so much). |
| Delicious Despair |
AlliedWishes said: Maybe, but I still think Kodaka's a better writer than your average schlock gore porn hackI can't really say many of the things in Danganronpa as being original and the sort. Just mostly exaggerated. I can understand people not liking brainwashing and calling it BS and the like, but I can say that regarding many of the things in Danganronpa in general, so this isn't really anything new to me, lol lol I always love seeing the type of excited reactions of a character revealing to be as such, but I never really found it that big of a deal to get so excited over. They're just homosexual. Doesn't really make me change my opinion about the character (that being said, I still hate Juzo so much). Well, I am a fujoshit so it's only natural for me to get all excited |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Comic_Sans said: AlliedWishes said: Well, I am a fujoshit so it's only natural for me to get all excitedlol I always love seeing the type of excited reactions of a character revealing to be as such, but I never really found it that big of a deal to get so excited over. They're just homosexual. Doesn't really make me change my opinion about the character (that being said, I still hate Juzo so much). Oh, you're fujoshit- I mean fujoshi? Well, alright then. That explains it. My apologies. |
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