Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 13 Discussion

Fai said:


THEN SHOW IT. Just like Arc 2 did.
Yet in this Subaru's stupidity and shitty behavior is played 100% completely straight, instead of being a front.

Jagd84 said:


Right, but he was doing that when he died multiple times in 2nd arc and even Betty called him out on it when went into library to hide his fear. Or the series incidents that lead to Emilia giving him a lap-pillow. It would have just been redundant to bring it up again.

QWERTYFish25 said:


"Bias?" For what? I thought Subaru was pretty cool in the last arc.

Epicenter said:


IMO, you shouldn't apologize or feel sorry when you haven't done anything wrong or harmful. You shouldn't let these people hurt you either, it's just a discussion thread on the internet. Though, I think it's a stretch to say you were being bullied from what I saw. But like you, I do prefer mature manner of conversation.

Rayla said:


I didn't say it was bullying, but merely felt like it was.

I've had very bad experiences in my lifetime with people, and I was I was bullied a lot as a child, so I have a habit of constantly apologizing and feeling like I was in the wrong, because I've been told my whole life that I am wrong.

However, backing off isn't my thing, because I want to voice my opinions out, even if it seems futile.

Instead of insulting, I try my best to talk things maturely.

Jagd84 said:


And also done things rudely to Betty by saying things that pissed her off. He also foot in his mouth with the maids touching sore points . He's acted both cleverly and he stupidity. There all be aspects of his character. Now got into situation where he's flawed characteristics can't be masked by his heroics.

Jotakak said:
Subaru's only human and sometimes humans have ugly feelings like this. He's been through a lot of shit and he can't tell anybody about it so it just builds up until he explodes, doing things he wouldn't normally do and saying thinks he doesn't really mean to say. This was his wake-up call and hopefully he improves from it but to see how much hate he is getting is ridiculous. I get this was hard to watch but he was thrown into this word with nothing and is only just realizing how powerless he really is when it comes to the big picture. So far he's built up everyone's expectations and was put on a pedestal. Like Emilia said, he had an ideal image of her in his head but she had one of him too and sometimes that image burns away to reveal a vulnerable human being, one that is selfish and stubborn. One that doesn't know when a enough is a enough. One that lashes out and says cruel things because the pain in their chest is too much. For me, this was definitely hard to watch because watching Subaru was like watching a part of myself that I don't always like to admit that's there. I think other people also see themselves in Subaru and because they hate that part of themselves too, they end up hating the character for it.

Jagd84 said:


Right, but he was doing that when he died multiple times in 2nd arc and even Betty called him out on it when went into library to hide his fear. Or the series incidents that lead to Emilia giving him a lap-pillow. It would have just been redundant to bring it up again.

Bananaoranges said:
Can we please stop the "omg subaru is out of character 1/10"?

Are you trying to tell me you've never acted out of character? Have you ever suffered from anxiety? He's not thinking straight, he's acting out of character because he's afraid. He's afraid of losing the people he cares about, namely Emilia and Co. He was worried about Emilia, hence why he followed her to the Palace. His motives may have seemed selfish but from his standpoint he was doing it for her. During arc 1 if he wasn't there Emilia would have died. During arc 2, if he wasn't around Rem and the children would have died. He's afraid that if he isn't there, and something does happen he has no way to undo it. Sure he has no ability to protect them, but he's most likely keeping in mind that he may be able to commit suicide to reset what has occurred. If he acts too late he may hit a checkpoint, which is exactly why he's so anxious and clingy when it comes to Emilia.

Yes he ends up giving a cringe worthy speech at the end of how she owes him, but that's just him trying to blindly grab on to that last but of hope of keeping their relationship intact. Fear can do a lot to a person, it can even change how they carry them self so I'm not surprised how he handled himself.

This is just my two cents. I'm aware I've skipped over a lot of points but it's late over here and I doubt I can persuade much of you to appreciate how the author created such a great scene.

Aiko_Hiroshi said:


I agree 100%. Subaru isn't out of character, this is just him breaking down at the thought of being powerless to help the ones he cares for. I really don't understand the hate either, people acting like he deserves to die for acting like an actual fucking human being and having flaws is insane. If you think somebody should die for their mistakes, especially for ones as minor as this episode (Subaru self destructed here more than hurt anyone else) then there is something wrong with your way of thinking.

Bananaoranges said:


I do agree with you here, but that kind of psychological trauma isn't forgotten in such a short period of time. He's just able to mask it a lot better, and following the lap pillow the events that occurred with Rem and the dogs pushed him even further to the edge. The fear you mentioned was the fear of death, but currently he fears that he'll lose the people he cares about. His fears have yet to be resolved, and they've began to resurface. He still needs development, he was able to confront his demons back then, but that doesn't mean they won't resurface. He's never been a smart protagonist, he's the type of person who bottles up his emotions because he doesn't want to worry anyone. He'll eventually break, just like he did today.

Not that I don't agree with you, but there's always two sides to a coin. You and I are always going to have conflicting opinions but that doesn't mean I don't get where you're coming from. Glad you're handling this maturely and not trying to force your opinion on others.

siradix said:


Which is why Emilia ending things with Subaru is important to his character growth. The way he is living right now is not healthy for him. People die, get hurt, and say stupid stuff all the time. He can't make things work in his favor all the time. The way things ended here is will be a good callus for his character growth.

Fai said:


You mean like he already did in previous arc? I mean in here we see him being rejected and having outburst over it, having to realize this is real, being forced to admit how selfish he is, so now he will have to bounce back, do selfless stuff, remake the bonds with people and...oh wait...

Didn't we saw Subaru:
- Spend Episode 4 being entirely out of place making a fool out of himself and garnering suspicion.
- Spend episode 6 realizing he is not being accepted and breaking down in Ep7 over them rejecting him and his nice guy savior attitude
- Spend the end of Episode 7 realizing he has been a selfish idiot and then throwing away his happy ending in order to save the maids life.
- Have a breakdown in Episode 8 over his realization of just how real everything is and how this is not a game but real life
- Spend Episode 9 and 10 putting his life on the line fully realizing its real and how expendable he is or how scary the situation is.
- Spend Episode 10 and 11 earning back everyone's trust.

Why is he doing the EXACT same things AGAIN, just in way less episodes, with less character justification and with more dumbness and cringe??!?!

Also there's absolutely nothing wrong with hating character who is literally this:


And delivers gems like:

or literally shouting this episode that Emilia should be GRATEFUL and REPAY him for being nice to her.

There's a fine thick line between making mistakes and turning into literally SAO villain.

MadLane said:
stupid episode, if it were me i would just restart enough time to i could finally humiliate that stupid Knight but nooo subaru had to be pathetic

Bananaoranges said:

So everything that occurred prior just didn't happen? He's just supposed to forget all the trauma he went through?

Sure he 'threw' away his selfish attitude at that point in time, but hat doesn't mean it wont resurface. His suffering can be portrayed as a vicious cycle, he may have overcome the first hurdle but he's come across a second. When anxious and/or afraid you begin to make bad decisions.

As for the part where he had said she owed him, he was just trying to cling onto the last silver of hope he had left. Yes, he tried to manipulate her so she wouldn't leave. Yes, people do that, but only when they've reached a point where they're desperate.

MadLane said:
stupid episode, if it were me i would just restart enough time to i could finally humiliate that stupid Knight but nooo subaru had to be pathetic

Fai said:
And anyone who goes to lengths Subaru did at the end of this episode deserves a restraining order

Fai said:


You mean like he already did in previous arc? I mean in here we see him being rejected and having outburst over it, having to realize this is real, being forced to admit how selfish he is, so now he will have to bounce back, do selfless stuff, remake the bonds with people and...oh wait...

Didn't we saw Subaru:
- Spend Episode 4 being entirely out of place making a fool out of himself and garnering suspicion.
- Spend episode 6 realizing he is not being accepted and breaking down in Ep7 over them rejecting him and his nice guy savior attitude
- Spend the end of Episode 7 realizing he has been a selfish idiot and then throwing away his happy ending in order to save the maids life.
- Have a breakdown in Episode 8 over his realization of just how real everything is and how this is not a game but real life
- Spend Episode 9 and 10 putting his life on the line fully realizing its real and how expendable he is or how scary the situation is.
- Spend Episode 10 and 11 earning back everyone's trust.

Why is he doing the EXACT same things AGAIN, just in way less episodes, with less character justification and with more dumbness and cringe??!?!

Also there's absolutely nothing wrong with hating character who is literally this:


And delivers gems like:

or literally shouting this episode that Emilia should be GRATEFUL and REPAY him for being nice to her.

There's a fine thick line between making mistakes and turning into literally SAO villain.

Fai said:

A protagonist is supposed to be someone you can understand or at least have empathy for. It should not be a character you want to see die in most painful way.

TeamDalaiLana said:
The overreactions.... I can see people having a huge fit when the show ends.

Because it will NOT be your typical HAPPY ending show.

I honestly hope people are prepared for the absolute depressing nature of what's to come.

For me I think that's just beautiful. I love sadness and depression so it's perfect.

TeamDalaiLana said:


ummm no? That would be a very cliche protag.

A protagonist is simply the lead character. It could be a villain, an idiot, anyone.

Fai said:


You mean like he already did in previous arc? I mean in here we see him being rejected and having outburst over it, having to realize this is real, being forced to admit how selfish he is, so now he will have to bounce back, do selfless stuff, remake the bonds with people and...oh wait...

Didn't we saw Subaru:
- Spend Episode 4 being entirely out of place making a fool out of himself and garnering suspicion.
- Spend episode 6 realizing he is not being accepted and breaking down in Ep7 over them rejecting him and his nice guy savior attitude
- Spend the end of Episode 7 realizing he has been a selfish idiot and then throwing away his happy ending in order to save the maids life.
- Have a breakdown in Episode 8 over his realization of just how real everything is and how this is not a game but real life
- Spend Episode 9 and 10 putting his life on the line fully realizing its real and how expendable he is or how scary the situation is.
- Spend Episode 10 and 11 earning back everyone's trust.

Why is he doing the EXACT same things AGAIN, just in way less episodes, with less character justification and with more dumbness and cringe??!?!

Also there's absolutely nothing wrong with hating character who is literally this:


And delivers gems like:

or literally shouting this episode that Emilia should be GRATEFUL and REPAY him for being nice to her.

There's a fine thick line between making mistakes and turning into literally SAO villain.

nny92 said:
For a guy who has died that many times, snapping like that might've been healthier and more accurately portrays his humane features. Memories with the girl of your dreams that technically don't exist and deaths that no one remembers would be enough to break anyone. Apologies to anyone shaming Subaru but anyone calling him weak is either arrogant or lacks perspective.

Fappa said:
I somehow get the feeling a good chunk of people here can't comprehend non linear character development.

By getting himself into a situation that is such large scaled compared to what he is used to, he got emotionally backed into a corner, became desperate and eventually made several steps back in his development. In other words this means falling back into old patterns that are amplified by the circumstances -> "Subaru what's going on with you?".

He is sent to the lowest low, the absolute bottom by his own actions and now has the chance to reconstruct his character bit by bit.

Or in short. By getting confronted with his own faults he broke but can now put the pieces together in a way that create a better man.

Fai said:

Not really. He should still be traumatized.
Sure would be nice if show itself remembered that instead of playing Subaru's stupidity 100% straight and forgetting he is supposed to have PTSD. The show remembered to do that in Arc 2, but not it seems to have completely forgotten arc 2 ever happened so...


Sure why not.
Let's have Arc4 be him acting idiotic around Felt, till she slaps him and makes him realize he is selfish, learning his mistake.
Then let's have arc5 have him act idiotic around Reinhard, till same happens.
Let's do it till we run out of characters.

I think you can already see why going in circles is bad writing and not how characterization is done. Character progression involves character either changing or reaffirming his path for a reason. Having a character literally be a revolving door does not make a consistent character.


And anyone who goes to lengths Subaru did at the end of this episode deserves a restraining order, instead of his own anime.
A protagonist is supposed to be someone you can understand or at least have empathy for. It should not be a character you want to see die in most painful way.

4kicks said:
Subaru was quite ugly in this episode, so much so that it was pitiful to watch him babble on. He says it was for her, which he isn't wrong about, but Emilia also wasn't wrong when she claimed Subaru was doing things to feel better about himself and his own ego. No matter how selfless someone is, even if they were to give up their own life...if the other person never asked for it, then a person's actions are always done for one's self before it's for another person's sake.

I for one am glad Subaru got his ass handed to him, because he really didn't know his place, his boundaries, or his limits....but above all, because he went full retard in his selfishness. With a girl he has feelings for that values promises highly, he nonetheless easily broke it to satisfy his own curiosity and ego. He claimed he was her knight, without knowing the ramifications that came with it. He accepted a duel, that would only burden Emilia if he got injured more than he was already than before. It's a noble thing to exploit his immortality to save people around him because of noblesse oblige, and it's another to force himself in other people's business that he has no right butting into. And at the end of it all, Subaru acted like an emotional entitled little bitch that can't get laid so he essentially lists all the reasons why Emilia owes him something, when she doesn't have to give him jack shit. It's like saving someone from drowning, expecting them to give you head because you saved their life--it just isn't logical. Subaru seriously needs to kill himself and try again.

And can they make Roswaal's sinister smirk anymore obvious? I never even read the novels but I'm now completely certain he is evil, or at the very least not what he seems, with his usual cheery persona being some kind of act to further some goal.

Venator25 said:
It's about time. I've disliked Subaru from the very beginning. His arrogance has gone unchecked but it finally caught up to him and he was put in his place.

I honestly hope he actually grows from this experience because the last two episodes he's become nearly unbearable.

LoliSatan said:


How unempathetic, did you seriously just weaken this down to "lol cuz he didn get laid XDDD"?

Is it really this hard to point this shit out to you people? Subaru clearly is in love with Emilia, and although he did some stupid shit, he did not deserve to be completely cut off from Emilia. They're both wrong in their own ways, they're both bad people in their own ways, and they both don't seem to understand each other.

I honestly think Subaru is better off abandoning Emilia, and just staying with Rem.