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Feb 25, 2016 12:21 AM
#1
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THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
And my most awaited clash will finally happen:

NANDESUKA KORE?
Feb 25, 2016 2:43 AM
#2
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The Kagura vs Kamui rematch was predictable from the start. And now we'll be knowing more about their past before Kamui's probable loss in the fight. If not, then Gintoki vs Kamui might be possible as well (even though I don't want that).
Warrior3Feb 25, 2016 3:52 AM
Feb 25, 2016 5:08 AM
#3

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WHere tHE fuck is KamuIi's backstoryyyy oh goddd
on a nicer note what Kagura says to him about him being the real cry baby is really satisfying, you tell him who's the pussy baby girl.
Fuck Utsuro for being a mega cockblocker.
I'm officially dead

Feb 25, 2016 8:26 AM
#4

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Ok full raws are out, I don't get what is Kamui trying to accomplish here, first he fights Umibozu, gets rekt, then fights Kagura, gets rekt. :/

Utsuro should have just killed him off, but now he's gonna kill Umibozu, so its all good.
Feb 25, 2016 8:57 AM
#5
SHSL Good Luck

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Raws are out and it's great! That page with Umibozu and young Kagura and Kamui was nice. Kagura (without Yato mode) just swinging Kamui O_O! And the cuts between the past and present was well done. Poor Umibozu has to watch the too fight. His face T_T. Next chapter Utsuro vs. Umibozu. No, the death flag might be reality ;_;. Kamui and Kagura better help!

5/5
Feb 25, 2016 9:27 AM
#6
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Ramkec said:
Ok full raws are out, I don't get what is Kamui trying to accomplish here, first he fights Umibozu, gets rekt, then fights Kagura, gets rekt. :/

Utsuro should have just killed him off, but now he's gonna kill Umibozu, so its all good.
Kamui hater, bleh. -_-
Feb 25, 2016 9:54 AM
#7

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Warrior3 said:
Ramkec said:
Ok full raws are out, I don't get what is Kamui trying to accomplish here, first he fights Umibozu, gets rekt, then fights Kagura, gets rekt. :/

Utsuro should have just killed him off, but now he's gonna kill Umibozu, so its all good.
Kamui hater, bleh. -_-


Recently his development has been pretty dull for a serious arcs only character, he couldn't even beat Okita. :/ And he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki, sit down boi.
Feb 25, 2016 10:09 AM
#8
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Ramkec said:
Warrior3 said:
Kamui hater, bleh. -_-


Recently his development has been pretty dull for a serious arcs only character, he couldn't even beat Okita. :/ And he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki, sit down boi.
where are you guys reading from?
Feb 25, 2016 10:23 AM
#9
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Ramkec said:
Warrior3 said:
Kamui hater, bleh. -_-


Recently his development has been pretty dull for a serious arcs only character, he couldn't even beat Okita. :/ And he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki, sit down boi.
what the hell are you talking about? Do you even watch Gintama attentively? If the fight hadn't been interrupted by an explosion, Kamui would have killed Sougo (even he himself admitted that Kamui is too monstrous to beat), there's NO way he's stronger than Kamui, so...
And so what if he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki as strong samurais? There's nothing stupid with that. And you know nothing about his past, the backstory's only starting to progress. You sit down, boi.
Feb 25, 2016 10:28 AM

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Warrior3 said:
Ramkec said:


Recently his development has been pretty dull for a serious arcs only character, he couldn't even beat Okita. :/ And he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki, sit down boi.
what the hell are you talking about? Do you even watch Gintama attentively? If the fight hadn't been interrupted by an explosion, Kamui would have killed Sougo (even he himself admitted that Kamui is too monstrous to beat), there's NO way he's stronger than Kamui, so...
And so what if he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki as strong samurais? There's nothing stupid with that. And you know nothing about his past, the backstory's only starting to progress. You sit down, boi.


I don't really want to guess what could and couldn't happen if the fight didn't get interrupted. Fact is they tied at the end.

I can't hold down the characters that fly on hype wind, so yea.

The sit down part was meant for Kamui, not you lol.
Feb 25, 2016 11:15 AM
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Ramkec said:
Warrior3 said:
what the hell are you talking about? Do you even watch Gintama attentively? If the fight hadn't been interrupted by an explosion, Kamui would have killed Sougo (even he himself admitted that Kamui is too monstrous to beat), there's NO way he's stronger than Kamui, so...
And so what if he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki as strong samurais? There's nothing stupid with that. And you know nothing about his past, the backstory's only starting to progress. You sit down, boi.


I don't really want to guess what could and couldn't happen if the fight didn't get interrupted. Fact is they tied at the end.

I can't hold down the characters that fly on hype wind, so yea.

The sit down part was meant for Kamui, not you lol.
You needn't guess anything when it is obvious, who would win. lol
Well, Kamui is definitely one of those characters, which makes fans (if not all fans, but the majority, at least) feel hyped, so yea. And soon Utsuro will get his ass handed to him by either Gintoki or Umibozu. :D
Feb 25, 2016 11:46 AM

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Holy hell. Umibouzu protecting Kamui (cause he did push him out of the way right?). I am not okay. If we will get something like: papi dies, and siblings fight side by side to avenge him I will be even less okay tho lol.

Anonomousity said:
where are you guys reading from?


Just google Gintama 577 chinese scans, there should be link to topic on reddit.
Feb 25, 2016 12:42 PM

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Ramkec said:
Warrior3 said:
Kamui hater, bleh. -_-


Recently his development has been pretty dull for a serious arcs only character, he couldn't even beat Okita. :/ And he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki, sit down boi.


Wait. u talking abt that 10 seconds fight that hospitalized Okita? Ahaha. U think he couldve survived Kamui's death punch right before the ship exploded? He couldnt, hence the random explosion. Go thx Sorachi your boi Sougo's still alive. Kamui was just fucking around looking to test the samurai power. Sorry but you go sit down in a corner.

Feb 25, 2016 1:23 PM

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railguncat said:
Ramkec said:


Recently his development has been pretty dull for a serious arcs only character, he couldn't even beat Okita. :/ And he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki, sit down boi.


Wait. u talking abt that 10 seconds fight that hospitalized Okita? Ahaha. U think he couldve survived Kamui's death punch right before the ship exploded? He couldnt, hence the random explosion. Go thx Sorachi your boi Sougo's still alive. Kamui was just fucking around looking to test the samurai power. Sorry but you go sit down in a corner.


What's the name of a fight where Kamui beat someone fair and square who had a good fighting reputation in Gintama? That's right. We don't know.

Warrior3 said it the best above, Kamui is just a hype character. I feel for you fans but it is what it is and he's there for Kagura's development, that's it.
Feb 25, 2016 2:27 PM
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Ramkec said:
railguncat said:


Wait. u talking abt that 10 seconds fight that hospitalized Okita? Ahaha. U think he couldve survived Kamui's death punch right before the ship exploded? He couldnt, hence the random explosion. Go thx Sorachi your boi Sougo's still alive. Kamui was just fucking around looking to test the samurai power. Sorry but you go sit down in a corner.


What's the name of a fight where Kamui beat someone fair and square who had a good fighting reputation in Gintama? That's right. We don't know.

Warrior3 said it the best above, Kamui is just a hype character. I feel for you fans but it is what it is and he's there for Kagura's development, that's it.
but still you shouldn't blame Kamui just because Sorachi decided to make his every single fight interrupted by random characters lol
Feb 25, 2016 2:32 PM

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Ramkec said:
railguncat said:


Wait. u talking abt that 10 seconds fight that hospitalized Okita? Ahaha. U think he couldve survived Kamui's death punch right before the ship exploded? He couldnt, hence the random explosion. Go thx Sorachi your boi Sougo's still alive. Kamui was just fucking around looking to test the samurai power. Sorry but you go sit down in a corner.


What's the name of a fight where Kamui beat someone fair and square who had a good fighting reputation in Gintama? That's right. We don't know.

Warrior3 said it the best above, Kamui is just a hype character. I feel for you fans but it is what it is and he's there for Kagura's development, that's it.


I don't care if he's a hype character. And yes his development is somewhat monotonous, but so was Takasugi's until Sorachi abruptly throw in a drastic backstory for him.
Basically I was just correcting the part where you said he couldnt beat Okita. The fact is he's made to be one of the strongest Yato, striving to be stronger than any living being, which explains why he feels challenged by the likes of Okita and Gintoki. The fans know that his main course is Umibouzu, Takasucky and co are just side dishes he plans on having. So don't tell him to sit down.

Feb 25, 2016 2:37 PM

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Warrior3 said:
Ramkec said:


What's the name of a fight where Kamui beat someone fair and square who had a good fighting reputation in Gintama? That's right. We don't know.

Warrior3 said it the best above, Kamui is just a hype character. I feel for you fans but it is what it is and he's there for Kagura's development, that's it.
but still you shouldn't blame Kamui just because Sorachi decided to make his every single fight interrupted by random characters lol


how about we talk about Takasugi's fight instead.

Edit: The one in SA with Gintoki doesn't count.
psychogumFeb 25, 2016 2:47 PM

Feb 25, 2016 3:09 PM

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Warrior3 said:
Ramkec said:


What's the name of a fight where Kamui beat someone fair and square who had a good fighting reputation in Gintama? That's right. We don't know.

Warrior3 said it the best above, Kamui is just a hype character. I feel for you fans but it is what it is and he's there for Kagura's development, that's it.
but still you shouldn't blame Kamui just because Sorachi decided to make his every single fight interrupted by random characters lol


That is true as well, I completely agreed there. It was nice to see him kill this Harusame 1st squad captain in the latest chapters, but it would have been even more awesome if they fought a little, so we see this Harusame guy is not a joke. Now because of that one shot, everyone is considering that kill as comedy lol.

And again now with his fight against Umibozu, Sorachi decided to interrupt it lol.

@railguncat It was just a matter of time until Takasugi became more important due to his history with Gintoki and co, Utsuro, Oboro etc. Kamui isn't connected with any of those guys.
Feb 25, 2016 3:18 PM
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Ramkec said:
Warrior3 said:
but still you shouldn't blame Kamui just because Sorachi decided to make his every single fight interrupted by random characters lol


That is true as well, I completely agreed there. It was nice to see him kill this Harusame 1st squad captain in the latest chapters, but it would have been even more awesome if they fought a little, so we see this Harusame guy is not a joke. Now because of that one shot, everyone is considering that kill as comedy lol.

And again now with his fight against Umibozu, Sorachi decided to interrupt it lol.

@railguncat It was just a matter of time until Takasugi became more important due to his history with Gintoki and co, Utsuro, Oboro etc. Kamui isn't connected with any of those guys.
yea, Kamui suddenly appearing and killing Shirei was unexpected, but who cares...
It seems that Utsuro knew about Kamui very well and maybe vice versa. I wonder what'll happen next.
Feb 25, 2016 3:21 PM
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railguncat said:
Warrior3 said:
but still you shouldn't blame Kamui just because Sorachi decided to make his every single fight interrupted by random characters lol


how about we talk about Takasugi's fight instead.

Edit: The one in SA with Gintoki doesn't count.
lol, the only people he'd fought apart from Gintoki were those amanto dudes during the Joi war and now. But that's it.
Feb 25, 2016 3:48 PM

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Ramkec said:
Warrior3 said:
but still you shouldn't blame Kamui just because Sorachi decided to make his every single fight interrupted by random characters lol


That is true as well, I completely agreed there. It was nice to see him kill this Harusame 1st squad captain in the latest chapters, but it would have been even more awesome if they fought a little, so we see this Harusame guy is not a joke. Now because of that one shot, everyone is considering that kill as comedy lol.

And again now with his fight against Umibozu, Sorachi decided to interrupt it lol.

@railguncat It was just a matter of time until Takasugi became more important due to his history with Gintoki and co, Utsuro, Oboro etc. Kamui isn't connected with any of those guys.


Well he better hurry, the manga is ending. Especially now that Utsuro is coming for the Yato family, which will soon be joined by main cast Gintoki and Shinpachi.

Feb 25, 2016 4:38 PM

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I can see Umibouzu dying, really really hope I'm wrong. ;___;
Feb 25, 2016 4:50 PM

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Kagura shows who is queen with her character development. Kagura is no longer is a crybaby little sister but Kamui is still the same, big bad brother who doesn't show his true feelings and just hides them. Kagura can now equally fight Kamui who uses his blood to fight while Kagura still opposes her blood in order to bring change to her family. He was terrible brother to his sister which caused her to be the kind of person he hates, a weak crybaby but instead he was actually the crybaby all along. He tried to be strong just like his dad but in the end he could not, both mentally and physically.

I will forever praise Sorachi's writing with Kagura's words to Kamui but I will not with him creating Utsuro. Utsuro is going to try and kill Umibaldy which I hope not but it's been foreshadowed since the Umbozu arc that he will protect them in order to make it up for Kagura for leaving her behind. Umibaldy's death will be the start to Kamui's character development. But there's a chance he will live by being saved by his two children and they return to being a happy family.
Feb 26, 2016 3:00 PM
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Kamui didn't get defeated by Okita, neither Umibozu, nor Housen. He stood on equal ground with all of them, and if I remember correctly, by the end of their battle Okita was on the ground while Kamui easily stood (and pulled out that piece of metal stuck in his gut like it was nothing). He dealt considerable damage to Umibozu before their fight was interrupted.

Feel free to disagree with me on that but seriously, Kagura's power up is just plain ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I do like it. I always like strong female characters. But in the Shogun Assassination arc, she could barely harm him. Kamui pretty much crushed her. Now she's suddenly on par with him? Are you kidding me? This goes beyond the boundary of what I would expect from Gintama. It's Fairy Tail-level power-up bullshit showing up in the most ridiculously shounen way possible.

Meh, I called Umibozu's death flag since he showed up in this arc. This chapter was pretty average despite the fact that Kamui got a lot of scenes which is always welcome. Anyway I really WOULD like to see a fight where he actually goes on with it will the very end.
chaliceoftearsFeb 26, 2016 3:06 PM
Feb 26, 2016 11:28 PM

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chaliceoftears said:
Kamui didn't get defeated by Okita, neither Umibozu, nor Housen. He stood on equal ground with all of them, and if I remember correctly, by the end of their battle Okita was on the ground while Kamui easily stood (and pulled out that piece of metal stuck in his gut like it was nothing). He dealt considerable damage to Umibozu before their fight was interrupted.

Feel free to disagree with me on that but seriously, Kagura's power up is just plain ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I do like it. I always like strong female characters. But in the Shogun Assassination arc, she could barely harm him. Kamui pretty much crushed her. Now she's suddenly on par with him? Are you kidding me? This goes beyond the boundary of what I would expect from Gintama. It's Fairy Tail-level power-up bullshit showing up in the most ridiculously shounen way possible.

Meh, I called Umibozu's death flag since he showed up in this arc. This chapter was pretty average despite the fact that Kamui got a lot of scenes which is always welcome. Anyway I really WOULD like to see a fight where he actually goes on with it will the very end.


I can see where your complaint's coming from, but Kagura has always been up there with Kamui. The reason she couldn't measure up to him in SA was because she fought out of her instinct, just like in her fight with Abuto before she was awaken, and the fight during that arc wasn't based on anything personal, she just wanted to stop Kamui from destroying the country. Her clash with him in the current chapter is initiated by a dire situation involving people that she cares about, and it could be that she IS using her Yato instinct, (she went on her Yato mode when Shinpachi was being impaled by Abuto so it makes sense that it happens again this time), which should explain how she manages to fight Kamui on equal ground. Seeing how calm she is throughout the fight shows that she is in control of herself, and here's where the complain should've come; how and when did she learn to fight under control with her instinct. While it is not clear how this "power up" happened, it's not "plain ridiculous" as you claimed either. She'd been through a lot since the SA arc and had been on her own since she left for Rakuyou so who knows how much meditation she's done during the 15 chapters she was absent.
It only takes a little imagination to put 2 and 2 together, but I guess it is easier to call bullshit on something.

Feb 27, 2016 6:57 AM

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I can read a little bit of chinese so here's what I understood :

> Gintoki and Shinpachi are looking for Kagura. They talk about Kamui saying that he would try to kill his father as long as he's alive so they know that Kagura is certainly with them. So yeah, they should be gathered together next chapter.
Gin says that he has a bad feeling. I wonder how he will react when he sees Utsuro.

> Kagura tells Umibouzu and Kamui to stop. She wants them to "come back" but Kamui says it's too late, saying that her big brother doesn't exist anymore and that her father will soon disappear too. He actually intended to kill her, saying that her death would help to awaken the beast inside Umibouzu. But here Kagura tells him that the little sister he knew doesn't exist anymore and fights back (Kagura ftw) She also says that Kamui is the only one who didn't change because he didn't get stronger at all. And then she threw him at the wall.

> For the flashback part, it says that Kamui was actually a crybaby trying to act tough in front of his mother even though he cried when Umibouzu abandoned them. I don't know why Kagura says that he's also been abandoned by his mom since he's the one who left first but well he's basically someone who's been abandoned by everyone. My guess is that their mom was already dying at that time and he felt abandoned by her since he knew she was going to die.

Seeing his children fight, Umibouzu tells them that it's enough and to stop.
And Utsuro appears from nowhere %D

Hope that helped.
So Kamui began to follow his Yato blood between the two times Umibouzu abandoned his family (1st time = leaving Kamui and 2nd time = leaving Kagura) and when his mother 'abandoned' him too, he became violent and tried to kill his father when he came back and after his defeat, he left Kagura and his mother.
Feb 27, 2016 8:30 AM

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The yato arc is probably gonna also be about how there's more than one type of strength, but yeah you guys keep fighting about power levels. It's all that matters in shounen manga after all.

Also who invited Utsuro into this family reunion? Nobody. Go home Utsuro.

railguncat said:

Her clash with him in the current chapter is initiated by a dire situation involving people that she cares about, and it could be that she IS using her Yato instinct, (she went on her Yato mode when Shinpachi was being impaled by Abuto so it makes sense that it happens again this time), which should explain how she manages to fight Kamui on equal ground. Seeing how calm she is throughout the fight shows that she is in control of herself, and here's where the complain should've come; how and when did she learn to fight under control with her instinct. While it is not clear how this "power up" happened, it's not "plain ridiculous" as you claimed either. She'd been through a lot since the SA arc and had been on her own since she left for Rakuyou so who knows how much meditation she's done during the 15 chapters she was absent.
It only takes a little imagination to put 2 and 2 together, but I guess it is easier to call bullshit on something.


Also this. Abuto noted in their fight that she's super strong, but holding it in. It's always been about her emotions/state of mind with her, not about innate power. She never wanted to use all she had in her because she was afraid of losing herself to it and hurting people she didn't want to hurt. But she's learned to better control her mind and her strength now. Pay attention.
bang-bangFeb 27, 2016 8:35 AM
Feb 27, 2016 9:51 AM
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__puppy__ said:
I can read a little bit of chinese so here's what I understood :

> Gintoki and Shinpachi are looking for Kagura. They talk about Kamui saying that he would try to kill his father as long as he's alive so they know that Kagura is certainly with them. So yeah, they should be gathered together next chapter.
Gin says that he has a bad feeling. I wonder how he will react when he sees Utsuro.

> Kagura tells Umibouzu and Kamui to stop. She wants them to "come back" but Kamui says it's too late, saying that her big brother doesn't exist anymore and that her father will soon disappear too. He actually intended to kill her, saying that her death would help to awaken the beast inside Umibouzu. But here Kagura tells him that the little sister he knew doesn't exist anymore and fights back (Kagura ftw) She also says that Kamui is the only one who didn't change because he didn't get stronger at all. And then she threw him at the wall.

> For the flashback part, it says that Kamui was actually a crybaby trying to act tough in front of his mother even though he cried when Umibouzu abandoned them. I don't know why Kagura says that he's also been abandoned by his mom since he's the one who left first but well he's basically someone who's been abandoned by everyone. My guess is that their mom was already dying at that time and he felt abandoned by her since he knew she was going to die.

Seeing his children fight, Umibouzu tells them that it's enough and to stop.
And Utsuro appears from nowhere %D

Hope that helped.
So Kamui began to follow his Yato blood between the two times Umibouzu abandoned his family (1st time = leaving Kamui and 2nd time = leaving Kagura) and when his mother 'abandoned' him too, he became violent and tried to kill his father when he came back and after his defeat, he left Kagura and his mother.
wow, if it's so, that Kamui had been abandoned by his mom, then I really can understand his pain and hatred towards his family. Also Kagura smh stated that "Umibozu had a gunshot marriage", so that might mean Kamui might have been born accidently, but Kagura was born after their parents were forced to marry after Kamui's birth.
Feb 27, 2016 11:22 AM
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railguncat said:
chaliceoftears said:
Kamui didn't get defeated by Okita, neither Umibozu, nor Housen. He stood on equal ground with all of them, and if I remember correctly, by the end of their battle Okita was on the ground while Kamui easily stood (and pulled out that piece of metal stuck in his gut like it was nothing). He dealt considerable damage to Umibozu before their fight was interrupted.

Feel free to disagree with me on that but seriously, Kagura's power up is just plain ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I do like it. I always like strong female characters. But in the Shogun Assassination arc, she could barely harm him. Kamui pretty much crushed her. Now she's suddenly on par with him? Are you kidding me? This goes beyond the boundary of what I would expect from Gintama. It's Fairy Tail-level power-up bullshit showing up in the most ridiculously shounen way possible.

Meh, I called Umibozu's death flag since he showed up in this arc. This chapter was pretty average despite the fact that Kamui got a lot of scenes which is always welcome. Anyway I really WOULD like to see a fight where he actually goes on with it will the very end.


I can see where your complaint's coming from, but Kagura has always been up there with Kamui. The reason she couldn't measure up to him in SA was because she fought out of her instinct, just like in her fight with Abuto before she was awaken, and the fight during that arc wasn't based on anything personal, she just wanted to stop Kamui from destroying the country. Her clash with him in the current chapter is initiated by a dire situation involving people that she cares about, and it could be that she IS using her Yato instinct, (she went on her Yato mode when Shinpachi was being impaled by Abuto so it makes sense that it happens again this time), which should explain how she manages to fight Kamui on equal ground. Seeing how calm she is throughout the fight shows that she is in control of herself, and here's where the complain should've come; how and when did she learn to fight under control with her instinct. While it is not clear how this "power up" happened, it's not "plain ridiculous" as you claimed either. She'd been through a lot since the SA arc and had been on her own since she left for Rakuyou so who knows how much meditation she's done during the 15 chapters she was absent.
It only takes a little imagination to put 2 and 2 together, but I guess it is easier to call bullshit on something.


I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong. For one, we know thta there is nothing more precious to Kagura than her family. In the Shogun Assassination arc, Kagura was, in fact, trying to protect the country. But why? It was because her family was there. Kamui would've killed anyone who stood in his way (or tried to) and she knew this. Those people included Gintoki, Shinpachi etc. For her, the siuation there wasn't any less dire than the situation now.

In this arc, Kagura goes to there with the intention of fighting him to stop him and save him from himself. That said, it's even less likely that she's fighting with her Yato blood because that's how Kamui is fighting, and that's what she's trying to stop. She's clearly not giving in to any of her instincts. The closest explanation for this that I can think of is that she had a bit of training? But what kind of training would it take for her to suddenly be able to fight to her full potential? I'm not saying it's impossible for her to do so, to be able to stand up to Kamui, it's the circumancstance (I'm typing in a hurry so I probably spelled that wrong) that don't add up.
Feb 27, 2016 12:01 PM

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__puppy__ said:
I can read a little bit of chinese so here's what I understood :

> Gintoki and Shinpachi are looking for Kagura. They talk about Kamui saying that he would try to kill his father as long as he's alive so they know that Kagura is certainly with them. So yeah, they should be gathered together next chapter.
Gin says that he has a bad feeling. I wonder how he will react when he sees Utsuro.

> Kagura tells Umibouzu and Kamui to stop. She wants them to "come back" but Kamui says it's too late, saying that her big brother doesn't exist anymore and that her father will soon disappear too. He actually intended to kill her, saying that her death would help to awaken the beast inside Umibouzu. But here Kagura tells him that the little sister he knew doesn't exist anymore and fights back (Kagura ftw) She also says that Kamui is the only one who didn't change because he didn't get stronger at all. And then she threw him at the wall.

> For the flashback part, it says that Kamui was actually a crybaby trying to act tough in front of his mother even though he cried when Umibouzu abandoned them. I don't know why Kagura says that he's also been abandoned by his mom since he's the one who left first but well he's basically someone who's been abandoned by everyone. My guess is that their mom was already dying at that time and he felt abandoned by her since he knew she was going to die.

Seeing his children fight, Umibouzu tells them that it's enough and to stop.
And Utsuro appears from nowhere %D

Hope that helped.
So Kamui began to follow his Yato blood between the two times Umibouzu abandoned his family (1st time = leaving Kamui and 2nd time = leaving Kagura) and when his mother 'abandoned' him too, he became violent and tried to kill his father when he came back and after his defeat, he left Kagura and his mother.


Damn all of this is making me feel some type of way for Kamui. :(

Thx for the quicky summary, can't wait the full translation.

@chaliceoftears I kinda agree with you on what you said above on post #24, it also makes me wonder how much time has passed between those 3 last serious arcs, all of this is happening so fast like its just a little under a month and we haven't seen her train anywhere in between.
Feb 27, 2016 2:24 PM

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chaliceoftears said:
railguncat said:


I can see where your complaint's coming from, but Kagura has always been up there with Kamui. The reason she couldn't measure up to him in SA was because she fought out of her instinct, just like in her fight with Abuto before she was awaken, and the fight during that arc wasn't based on anything personal, she just wanted to stop Kamui from destroying the country. Her clash with him in the current chapter is initiated by a dire situation involving people that she cares about, and it could be that she IS using her Yato instinct, (she went on her Yato mode when Shinpachi was being impaled by Abuto so it makes sense that it happens again this time), which should explain how she manages to fight Kamui on equal ground. Seeing how calm she is throughout the fight shows that she is in control of herself, and here's where the complain should've come; how and when did she learn to fight under control with her instinct. While it is not clear how this "power up" happened, it's not "plain ridiculous" as you claimed either. She'd been through a lot since the SA arc and had been on her own since she left for Rakuyou so who knows how much meditation she's done during the 15 chapters she was absent.
It only takes a little imagination to put 2 and 2 together, but I guess it is easier to call bullshit on something.


I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong. For one, we know thta there is nothing more precious to Kagura than her family. In the Shogun Assassination arc, Kagura was, in fact, trying to protect the country. But why? It was because her family was there. Kamui would've killed anyone who stood in his way (or tried to) and she knew this. Those people included Gintoki, Shinpachi etc. For her, the siuation there wasn't any less dire than the situation now.

In this arc, Kagura goes to there with the intention of fighting him to stop him and save him from himself. That said, it's even less likely that she's fighting with her Yato blood because that's how Kamui is fighting, and that's what she's trying to stop. She's clearly not giving in to any of her instincts. The closest explanation for this that I can think of is that she had a bit of training? But what kind of training would it take for her to suddenly be able to fight to her full potential? I'm not saying it's impossible for her to do so, to be able to stand up to Kamui, it's the circumancstance (I'm typing in a hurry so I probably spelled that wrong) that don't add up.



Of course the situation then wasn't as serious as both her own father and brother trying to kill each other. Yes in the SA arc she was fighting for the country to protect her family and her "birthplace", but Kamui hadn't done enough damage to provoke her. The closest he was to hurting people that she cared about was when he shot a bullet at Soyo, but even this was unbeknownst to her during their fight. His involvement in the SA plot wasn't grounded by any personal target, so he wasnt as destructive and threatening to Kagura as he is in this current arc, where his goal is as clear as a pikestaff.

I also don't think Kagura needs any training to stand up equally to Kamui because as we've seen in Yoshiwara arc, the skills are in her instinct. That's why I still believe that she could be fighting with her Yato blood, only this time she's strong enough to not lose herself. This time she's fighting to protect instead of fighting to kill like the Yato nature commands. Fighting with her Yato blood doesn't mean giving in to her instinct. Umibouzu fights with his blood all the time for work and he didn't lose himself the way Kamui did. It's like Bang-bang said above, Kagura's struggle lies in her state of mind and not her innate power, and this she may have finally overcome.

Feb 27, 2016 2:33 PM

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__puppy__ said:
I can read a little bit of chinese so here's what I understood :

> Gintoki and Shinpachi are looking for Kagura. They talk about Kamui saying that he would try to kill his father as long as he's alive so they know that Kagura is certainly with them. So yeah, they should be gathered together next chapter.
Gin says that he has a bad feeling. I wonder how he will react when he sees Utsuro.

> Kagura tells Umibouzu and Kamui to stop. She wants them to "come back" but Kamui says it's too late, saying that her big brother doesn't exist anymore and that her father will soon disappear too. He actually intended to kill her, saying that her death would help to awaken the beast inside Umibouzu. But here Kagura tells him that the little sister he knew doesn't exist anymore and fights back (Kagura ftw) She also says that Kamui is the only one who didn't change because he didn't get stronger at all. And then she threw him at the wall.

> For the flashback part, it says that Kamui was actually a crybaby trying to act tough in front of his mother even though he cried when Umibouzu abandoned them. I don't know why Kagura says that he's also been abandoned by his mom since he's the one who left first but well he's basically someone who's been abandoned by everyone. My guess is that their mom was already dying at that time and he felt abandoned by her since he knew she was going to die.

Seeing his children fight, Umibouzu tells them that it's enough and to stop.
And Utsuro appears from nowhere %D

Hope that helped.
So Kamui began to follow his Yato blood between the two times Umibouzu abandoned his family (1st time = leaving Kamui and 2nd time = leaving Kagura) and when his mother 'abandoned' him too, he became violent and tried to kill his father when he came back and after his defeat, he left Kagura and his mother.


Did Kagura really say that? I didn't catch this from the translation on tumblr. So he also felt abandoned by his mother because she was dying? Damn it Sorachi. Still doesnt explain why he's so determined to defeat his dad tho.

Feb 27, 2016 3:17 PM

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Warrior3 said:
wow, if it's so, that Kamui had been abandoned by his mom, then I really can understand his pain and hatred towards his family. Also Kagura smh stated that "Umibozu had a gunshot marriage", so that might mean Kamui might have been born accidently, but Kagura was born after their parents were forced to marry after Kamui's birth.

Umm I don't think she meant it that way : since the mother was ill she was going to leave the two children all alone. So he felt abandoned knowing this.

@Ramkec no problem!
We can only feel bad for Kamui there T-T

railguncat said:
Did Kagura really say that? I didn't catch this from the translation on tumblr. So he also felt abandoned by his mother because she was dying? Damn it Sorachi. Still doesnt explain why he's so determined to defeat his dad tho.

Well, yeah? I'm pretty sure that the left bubble on page 10 :

says "Not only have you been abandoned by Mommy" (something like that) and it's followed by "You've been abandoned by everyone" on the next page.
I'm not that good at reading chinese but I do speak it so when saying this line I can only translate it that way. But I could be wrong ... let's wait for the translations :x
And the thing about Kamui feeling abandoned because of his mother dying was only me guessing. I can't find anything else to explain this sentence.

I don't think he actually has a reason to kill his dad. Isn't he just following his Yato instinct? Since he has nothing left but himself.
Feb 28, 2016 9:45 PM

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__puppy__ said:
Warrior3 said:
wow, if it's so, that Kamui had been abandoned by his mom, then I really can understand his pain and hatred towards his family. Also Kagura smh stated that "Umibozu had a gunshot marriage", so that might mean Kamui might have been born accidently, but Kagura was born after their parents were forced to marry after Kamui's birth.

Umm I don't think she meant it that way : since the mother was ill she was going to leave the two children all alone. So he felt abandoned knowing this.

@Ramkec no problem!
We can only feel bad for Kamui there T-T

railguncat said:
Did Kagura really say that? I didn't catch this from the translation on tumblr. So he also felt abandoned by his mother because she was dying? Damn it Sorachi. Still doesnt explain why he's so determined to defeat his dad tho.

Well, yeah? I'm pretty sure that the left bubble on page 10 :

says "Not only have you been abandoned by Mommy" (something like that) and it's followed by "You've been abandoned by everyone" on the next page.
I'm not that good at reading chinese but I do speak it so when saying this line I can only translate it that way. But I could be wrong ... let's wait for the translations :x
And the thing about Kamui feeling abandoned because of his mother dying was only me guessing. I can't find anything else to explain this sentence.

I don't think he actually has a reason to kill his dad. Isn't he just following his Yato instinct? Since he has nothing left but himself.


Translation's out and you're right abt Kagura saying Kamui's been left behind by his mom and everyone. Hope they'll expand on that later. Was it his mom dying or umibouzu telling him to get stronger that triggered his beast. Kagura's words to Kamui are a tear jerker, she's asking Kamui to fight the enemy with her, but I don't think Kamui's gonna change his mind that easy, even after being saved by his dad. But we'll see.

Feb 29, 2016 1:21 AM
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railguncat said:
__puppy__ said:

Umm I don't think she meant it that way : since the mother was ill she was going to leave the two children all alone. So he felt abandoned knowing this.

@Ramkec no problem!
We can only feel bad for Kamui there T-T


Well, yeah? I'm pretty sure that the left bubble on page 10 :

says "Not only have you been abandoned by Mommy" (something like that) and it's followed by "You've been abandoned by everyone" on the next page.
I'm not that good at reading chinese but I do speak it so when saying this line I can only translate it that way. But I could be wrong ... let's wait for the translations :x
And the thing about Kamui feeling abandoned because of his mother dying was only me guessing. I can't find anything else to explain this sentence.

I don't think he actually has a reason to kill his dad. Isn't he just following his Yato instinct? Since he has nothing left but himself.


Translation's out and you're right abt Kagura saying Kamui's been left behind by his mom and everyone. Hope they'll expand on that later. Was it his mom dying or umibouzu telling him to get stronger that triggered his beast. Kagura's words to Kamui are a tear jerker, she's asking Kamui to fight the enemy with her, but I don't think Kamui's gonna change his mind that easy, even after being saved by his dad. But we'll see.
there are 2 translations and the other's one says that Kamui abandoned his mom and not the other way around, hmm.
Feb 29, 2016 2:02 AM
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railguncat said:
__puppy__ said:

Umm I don't think she meant it that way : since the mother was ill she was going to leave the two children all alone. So he felt abandoned knowing this.

@Ramkec no problem!
We can only feel bad for Kamui there T-T


Well, yeah? I'm pretty sure that the left bubble on page 10 :

says "Not only have you been abandoned by Mommy" (something like that) and it's followed by "You've been abandoned by everyone" on the next page.
I'm not that good at reading chinese but I do speak it so when saying this line I can only translate it that way. But I could be wrong ... let's wait for the translations :x
And the thing about Kamui feeling abandoned because of his mother dying was only me guessing. I can't find anything else to explain this sentence.

I don't think he actually has a reason to kill his dad. Isn't he just following his Yato instinct? Since he has nothing left but himself.


Translation's out and you're right abt Kagura saying Kamui's been left behind by his mom and everyone. Hope they'll expand on that later. Was it his mom dying or umibouzu telling him to get stronger that triggered his beast. Kagura's words to Kamui are a tear jerker, she's asking Kamui to fight the enemy with her, but I don't think Kamui's gonna change his mind that easy, even after being saved by his dad. But we'll see.


Yes, a translation for 577 is out. Now I can understand what they are saying. The bad news is:

NANDESUKA KORE?
Feb 29, 2016 3:39 AM
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lagba2 said:
railguncat said:


Translation's out and you're right abt Kagura saying Kamui's been left behind by his mom and everyone. Hope they'll expand on that later. Was it his mom dying or umibouzu telling him to get stronger that triggered his beast. Kagura's words to Kamui are a tear jerker, she's asking Kamui to fight the enemy with her, but I don't think Kamui's gonna change his mind that easy, even after being saved by his dad. But we'll see.


Yes, a translation for 577 is out. Now I can understand what they are saying. The bad news is:
where did you read that news?
Feb 29, 2016 6:20 PM

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oh man the death flag is waving so hard above umibozou that it lloks like they are next to a tornado.



"Be who you are and say what you mean, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind" - Dr. Seuss
Feb 29, 2016 6:25 PM

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Kagura taking on Kamui and trying to bring him back to the family.
Utsuro shows up. Umibouzu losing his robotic arm.
Next chapter Utsuro vs Umibouzu.
"I’ve set myself to become the King of the Pirates…and if I die trying…then at least I tried!" Monkey D. Luffy (One Piece)

Feb 29, 2016 7:59 PM

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Kagura vs Kamui is a nice fight so far. I like how they pour in the raw emotions with a good amount of expression about their feelings.

Looking forward to the fight next chapter. I hope it lives up to the hype~
Feb 29, 2016 8:03 PM
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mixxiv said:
lagba2 said:


Yes, a translation for 577 is out. Now I can understand what they are saying. The bad news is:
where did you read that news?


My bad, I read a old post; I thought it was posted yesterday- it was posted 26 December(it's about the sudden sickness of sorachi); stupid me. Sorry about that.

NANDESUKA KORE?
Feb 29, 2016 9:43 PM
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Ramkec said:
Warrior3 said:
Kamui hater, bleh. -_-


Recently his development has been pretty dull for a serious arcs only character, he couldn't even beat Okita. :/ And he wants to fight Takasugi and Gintoki, sit down boi.


Um...no. He can easily beat Okita. Look at their fight. Okita is getting owned through all of it. The only reason he is able to stay in it, is because he's much smarter than Kamui. To me Kamui is at least 10x stronger than Okita.
Feb 29, 2016 9:51 PM
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180
And for everyone arguing about two things. Is Kamui actually strong and why is Kagura so strong now? Two answers:

-Kamui is one of the strongest characters in Gintama. Holding his own against Hosen, demolishing Okita, fighting pretty evenly with Umibozu. Those are pretty damn impressive achievements. He is very very strong, so saying he's weak is an insult (also calling him just a 'hype character' is really stupid).

-I don't think Kagura is that much stronger physically. I think you all are misinterpreting where Kagura's new-found strength comes from. Back when she fought Kamui, she was physically stronger but not mentally strong enough to win. Now she has found the resolve and mental strength to unleash her fighting capabilities on Kamui. There is no sense of hesitation...when she faced him this time, Kagura was going for the win completely.


Now stop bickering please.
treedudeFeb 29, 2016 9:57 PM
Feb 29, 2016 11:12 PM

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Its easy to c now how similar kamui and takasugi are to kagura and gintoki. The two siblings shared the same childhood: an absent father and a dying (eventually dead) mother. Then the two students: the amanto war and the death of their mentor. Gintoki and kagura found a way to get on with their lives despite their losses. Takasugi and kamui couldnt live with it and continued to hurt and only sought solace in their dismay through carnage. The only way they could show their anger and sorrow was through the pain of others. Gintoki and kagura made new friends and family which made them stronger, if not physically then emotionally. Takasugi and kamui couldn't let go of their past which made them emotionally weaker. Kamui will very soon realize that before the end of this arc. I believe he is still one of the strongest characters in this series despite kagura's improvements, he's still a boy who cant let go of his past but im sure with kagura's tell offs and a few punches here and there he will finally go back to who he used to b.
And thats what family is for...
Mar 1, 2016 6:01 AM

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First we had Kagura interrupt the fight, now all of sudden here comes Utsuro lol.
I'm really hoping Umibozu doesn't die by his hands.
Mar 1, 2016 6:43 AM

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I think they really need to explain a little more of Kamui"s past, add some inner thoughts from his perspective and his fathers.

At this point, I don"t think we will ever find out now about how the family mother looked like nor what her name was lol
How I love a game
Mar 1, 2016 9:22 AM

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Kagura was pretty darn epic this time, going toe to toe with Kamui is quite the feat. Utusuro doe...there is no way one of them doesn't die with that guy!
Mar 1, 2016 11:16 AM

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kamui fanboy really annoying not only in site where i read. bitching just because he called crybaby and dont get stronger and rant like 3 page essay. damn.
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on."
Mar 1, 2016 12:48 PM
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Kuma said:
kamui fanboy really annoying not only in site where i read. bitching just because he called crybaby and dont get stronger and rant like 3 page essay. damn.
Hmm, I sometimes read comments on ReadManga and there are Kamui haters provoking his fans at times, with which they are way more annoying to me, than some fanboys/fangirls.
Mar 1, 2016 12:57 PM

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Warrior3 said:
Kuma said:
kamui fanboy really annoying not only in site where i read. bitching just because he called crybaby and dont get stronger and rant like 3 page essay. damn.
Hmm, I sometimes read comments on ReadManga and there are Kamui haters provoking his fans at times, with which they are way more annoying to me, than some fanboys/fangirls.
i use a site that there is sytem called tsukkomi and older tsukkomi is placed lower. it's not becuase popularity, and you know what lowest tsukkomis in page when kagura said crybaby? "she is a whinning shit" hope someone already report. some pages before even much worse because umibozu fanboy VS kamui fanboy.
KumaMar 1, 2016 1:04 PM
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on."
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