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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Good episode I guess. I just can't really feel sorry for Genji since he's such a whore. I feel like since he's never cared about whether he lived or died, he's never cared about the consequences of his actions, and therefore it rings false when he says he wishes to protect his child and vassals. Oh well, one more episode to go. |
| Heck yeah, finally a male lead whore who can pimp ladies. Dont know why people dislike him but IMO, he was a good character, has a sense of responsability as he said he do not care about his own life but he do care about the ones important to him. Also, the Emperor was cool with his way of thinking, even if it kinda gives off a feel of Yaoi with the sight of two mens dancing together under the moon light, ROFL. As expected, the Right Minister's elder daughter was a silly bitch throughout the entire ep, so bitchy that I wanna go through my screen & BITCH SLAPPED her real hard. Seems like we not gonna see another of Genji's love interest as there's only one ep left but oh well, it was a good ride while it lasts. |
 If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| If he truly wished to protect anyone, he wouldn't just cavalierly sleep with every woman that walks in front of him and then toss them aside like they're laundry. Look at Rokujou, Aoi, and Fujitsubou. He claimed to love them all, yet never really gave a damn about their feelings. Extend that to the fact that he doesn't consider the ramnifications of his actions, and I just think he's telling huge lies when he says he cares about his vassals. He is a good character, since I'm able to muster this much spite, but I don't like how--either the show, or Genji himself--chooses to portray him as some tragic martyr to be pitied. He doesn't learn from any of the choices he makes. He just thinks he can charm his way out of everything. Maybe he'll change since the Emperor is so sympathetic towards him and is very mature, but I doubt it. |
| Well, that bit about him sleeping with every woman & tossing them aside is 1 of his flaws, I guess. But if you consider the drama at the first ep, it's kinda understandable since the one he truly loves married another man, & its none other than his own father, of course he would feel sad, fact that its his 1st love at that young age doesnt help either. So what can he do if he cant be with his loved one no matter what? Searching pleasure in other woman's bosom is the only way for him to forget the pain. As for the ladies he had affairs with, from my perspective, he ultimately accepted the fact that he cant be with Fujitsubo so they part ways & he already settles with Aoi as his official wife. Only Rokujo that I dont know why he neglected her, but being a ladies man as he is, of course it's hard for him to not neglect anybody. Also, another flaw of his is when he found a new love, he gets too attached to her & forget about the others. To say he toss them aside like laundries is a bit too much IMHO since he does care about them, but his overly romantic nature is the cause & seeing how the woman he made love too keep yearning more & more doesnt help the situation either, maybe if Viagra was invented in that time period, everybody will be happy, LOL. As for the "tragic martyr to be pitied", I think its the show that made you believe it since Genji never once complain about his childhood, unlike some pussie named Shinji. Genji just entrusted his life to fate, that we can say he is too passive toward his life, but sometimes even if you try to defy fate, you cant change it, amirite? |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| No, it's not understandable. Puppy love is nowhere near the same as true love. Genji fell in love with a pretty older woman. All boys do that at his age. For whatever reason, he had it in his mind for the rest of his life that she was the only one for him, which I think is foolish at best and psychotic at worst. He never accepted that he couldn't be with Fujitsubou, otherwise the mess that he is in now would have never happened. He's like child, impulsively giving in to all of his hormonal desires. Moreover, I don't think he "settled" with Aoi at all. I never got the feeling that he was treating her in any way that distinguished her from any of the other women he slept with. It's just that since they were actually supposed to be with each other no one ever said anything. I think his flitting about between women without regard for their feelings is exactly like treating them like laundry...or garbage: they are only tools for fulfilling his sexual urges and emptiness. No other reason. He enjoys the chase for a little while he's interested, but otherwise, he can't be bothered with any of them. He gave up on himself before his life even started. That's a martyr complex to me. I personally don't believe in a fate that dictates our lives. I believe everyone has choices, and to just throw one's hands in the air and say "It's all up to fate!" is a ridiculously ignorant and childish thing to do. It may be the show's doing, but since I don't see Genji even attempting to be a better person, some of that blame is on him as well. |
noteDhero said: For whatever reason, he had it in his mind for the rest of his life that she was the only one for him, which I think is foolish at best and psychotic at worst. Well, like you said about the psychotic part, people differ each other, some can move on, some cannot. In Genji's case, he cannot, love is a complicated issue so we cant really blame him for being so in love with one woman. Moreover, he accepted the fact that they cant be together, hence why he tried to forget her by going out with other women. That happened a lot in romanc anime, I think & that worked for him while he was in his harem, before losing lots of his lovers. noteDhero said: Moreover, I don't think he "settled" with Aoi at all. I never got the feeling that he was treating her in any way that distinguished her from any of the other women he slept with. It's just that since they were actually supposed to be with each other no one ever said anything. Oh, by "Settle", I mean, like a womanizer said to himself when he's old:"Well, I'm old,so why not settle down & having a family?", that doesnt necessarily mean he will love her, but he will STAY with her, bounded by their baby. In fact, he stopped seeing other ladies, including Rokujo, hence why she unconciously possessed Aoi, amirite? noteDhero said: I think his flitting about between women without regard for their feelings is exactly like treating them like laundry...or garbage: they are only tools for fulfilling his sexual urges and emptiness. No other reason. He enjoys the chase for a little while he's interested, but otherwise, he can't be bothered with any of them. Ugh, I think I mentioned in my previous post that he doesnt have TIME, didnt I ? Thats the issue with harem, the male lead cant have eonogh time to take care all of his women. Thats his fault for having too many lovers but I only disagree about him treating them like garbage because thats not true since he still return to see Rokujo before she parted. I dont think he would do that if he is your so called regular player who treat women like garbage. Also, please take notice of his "too attached" to one woman too. noteDhero said: He gave up on himself before his life even started. That's a martyr complex to me. I personally don't believe in a fate that dictates our lives. I believe everyone has choices, and to just throw one's hands in the air and say "It's all up to fate!" is a ridiculously ignorant and childish thing to do. It may be the show's doing, but since I don't see Genji even attempting to be a better person, some of that blame is on him as well. Yeah, thats what I was saying, its the show trying to show that Genji cannot escape his fate with supernatural elements involved like vengeful spirits, & him being too passive is one of his major fault. What I mean with the fate stuffs is IMO, "fate" is just a serie of evenements that occured in a mathematic order, since we cant measure those orders, sometimes we mess up by going in the wrong order, its not that we dont have choices, but SOMETIMES our choice didnt happen at the right time. See what I mean? |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| I don't think he ever tried to stay away. Fujitsubou was just really awesome about not letting Genji be able to see her. Once he became an adult and she became the Emperor's wife, she was not letting herself give into temptation by even seeing her face, despite all his attempts. That's not really acceptance. It's a restraining order. Well, Genji was seeing the Minister of the Right's daughter, and the random girl who first fell prey to Rokujou's curse before and during his tryst with Aoi right? He only "decided" to be with her once the ladder died, was growing more specious of the former (but still slept with her once or so during this time), and Aoi said she was pregnant. Not to mention that he never formally ended any of his relationships. Time doesn't really cut it with me since all of these people are in, what, a 5 mile radius of Genji, and Rokujou had been complaining about not seeing him for months, and that this show has been crazy with timeskips to boot? In the case of the MoR's daughter, I don't really care since she knew how he acted and still did what she did anyways, but I mean this much more in his actions after the death of Aoi and his handling of Rokujou and Fujitsubou. Very immature, very arrogant, very inconsiderate. I guess I see what you mean, I just heartily disagree. All of his drama surrounds his immaturity in properly dealing with Fujitsubou and Rokujou. In the case of Fujitsubou, he didn't respect her wishes, and even raped her (yes, I will go that far, no means no), and he failed to formally end his relationship with Rokujou who ended up being the cause of two women's deaths. Would those deaths have happened if he handled it better? Maybe not the first girl, but I think definitely Aoi's. |
noteDhero said: I don't think he ever tried to stay away. Fujitsubou was just really awesome about not letting Genji be able to see her. Once he became an adult and she became the Emperor's wife, she was not letting herself give into temptation by even seeing her face, despite all his attempts. That's not really acceptance. It's a restraining order. Well, Genji was seeing the Minister of the Right's daughter, and the random girl who first fell prey to Rokujou's curse before and during his tryst with Aoi right? He only "decided" to be with her once the ladder died, was growing more specious of the former (but still slept with her once or so during this time), and Aoi said she was pregnant. Not to mention that he never formally ended any of his relationships. Time doesn't really cut it with me since all of these people are in, what, a 5 mile radius of Genji, and Rokujou had been complaining about not seeing him for months, and that this show has been crazy with timeskips to boot? In the case of the MoR's daughter, I don't really care since she knew how he acted and still did what she did anyways, but I mean this much more in his actions after the death of Aoi and his handling of Rokujou and Fujitsubou. Very immature, very arrogant, very inconsiderate. I guess I see what you mean, I just heartily disagree. All of his drama surrounds his immaturity in properly dealing with Fujitsubou and Rokujou. In the case of Fujitsubou, he didn't respect her wishes, and even raped her (yes, I will go that far, no means no), and he failed to formally end his relationship with Rokujou who ended up being the cause of two women's deaths. Would those deaths have happened if he handled it better? Maybe not the first girl, but I think definitely Aoi's. Yeah, the points you mentioned are pretty valid as those are the flaws of Genji. Guess it's tough too when you're handsome. About the formal ending, I guess sometimes its better to not say anything to avoid heartbreaks. For the Japanese who value modesty to the extreme, I think what Genji did is considered somehow courtesy instead of saying: "Let's break up!" Again, this is a culture difference so it cant be helped if that irritates you. About Rokujo, the show made it unclear how many times they usually see each other. As we know a woman in love yearns more & more skinship with the one she loves, I can assume that even a day is as long as months for her. IMO, if I were Genji, she would be the one I spend most of the time with, guess I have a weak spot for mature woman or something. However, I do think its wrong for him to "rape" Fujitsubo. But it's not really rape if she enjoys it, right? Its like a Tsundere girl who plays hard to get while madly in love with the boy. Even Fujitsubo admits herself that if she were not bounded to the Emperor, she would gladly be his lover. The show direction was bad because it had trouble to fully describe Genji's confuse state of mind before losing control of himself due to his love, in the show its like: "OK, I cant hold it in my pants anymore so Imma rape her!" so I guess thats where you felt that Genji's actions were spontaneous. Again, like I said, Genji do not know what causes the death of his 2 lovers beside the fact that its a vengeful spirit. If he were to know, I doubt that he would let Aoi die. But its still his fault at the end for provoking a woman's jealousy. |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| I don't know about it being courtesy since Rokujou was even saying to herself "At least tell me it's over...even if it hurts more," and Fujitsubou was very clear in stating that the affair had no future, and denying his advances (until the rape). They weren't clear about how many times they met. But in the beginning I believe it was daily for the "lessons," then it became weekly and monthly as Genji grew tired of her, then I feel like I remember her saying it had been months since she had seen him, and then of course I believe it was a year or two of Aoi being pregnant and dying. But yeah, I liked Rokujou the best for him (or the MoR's daughter) since she seemed to match his intensity (whore-ishness in the case of MoR's daughter). I still think it's rape. The circumstances were precisely why she avoided him and he continued to take advantage of her. If Genji were to have been confused at any point, then yeah, that's totally the shows fault since it seems to portray him more as an insatiable sex-addict. That is one thing the show does really well: dramatic irony. So yeah, I guess it's not totally his fault, but it's just a lack of decency that I find appalling. |
noteDhero said: But yeah, I liked Rokujou the best for him (or the MoR's daughter) since she seemed to match his intensity (whore-ishness in the case of MoR's daughter). LOL, whore couple xD, at least we can agree on the pairing. However, MoR's daughter wasnt whorish IMO since she was also a victim of pre-arranged marriage & she understands the player nature of Genji the best out of the lovers, I can say she would be the perfect wife for him if they were to marry each other. Well, as you said, I might have missed some of the Rokujo's dialogue, but some part of me still convinced that Genji might think that no telling her is the better way, God knows what feudal Japanese thinking with their over the top courtesy. Anyway, I guess this show will somehow remain in my mind as the " Insatiable sex-addict Genji" ;p |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| Ahhh! Now that you say it, maybe she isn't a whore. I'm just forgetting when she was introuduced. It was during a festival and Genji was drunk, so she is at the very least taking advantage of Genji the same way he does to every other woman...and she doesn't really care what trouble she gets him into despite their trysts, so...maybe not a whore, but my memory is failing now since she was introduced so late and my mind can only comprehend so many women that don't look all that different from one another. Yes, or "Genji, the Man-Whore" as I will call it:D |
| I'm glad this is one of my rare discussion where it doesnt turn into a flame war. With others "young" anime fans out there who only know of Naruto, Bleach & other generic Shonen as well as Shojo, they wont accept others' opinion & keep flaming instead of discussing... Anyway, it was an "8" serie for me as of now : Mature drama theme; good artwork; presentation or rather, adaptation needs some touching here & there. Here we go, the last 2 Genji's spectators, for the last ep. BTW, may I know what other Summer 09 you're watching, noteDhero? |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| Yeah, this is how I like discussions to go too. It's very hard to come across on these forums, since they do skew young (or I'm just getting to old). For me, 6. Great presentation, but character design is average and animation is non-existent. The story has a good idea, but it's just not really fleshed out well enough for me. Hmm...I'm watching Bakemongatari, Umi Monogatari, Canaan, Tokyo Magnitude, Zan Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Spice and Wolf II, and Umineko no naku koro ni. I think there are a couple other shows that I'll be watching, but they haven't premiered yet. I do little blogs about my impressions on what I'm watching, but not until 3-5 episodes into the series, so that should be coming up in the next week or so. But I guess I should do a little blurb on what has finished, first. |
noteDhero said: Yeah, this is how I like discussions to go too. It's very hard to come across on these forums, since they do skew young (or I'm just getting to old). LOL, you too? Well, guess we are too old anime fans to discuss stuffs with younger fans. BTW, how long you watching anime? I think I watched most if not all, series that were fansubbed hence the reason why I felt so fed up with Shonen & Shojo right now, especially the male lead; I know its too musch to ask for those 85' manly lead such as Ryo Saeba or Ken or Ryuu but seriously, what's up with the leads these days being all wussies hiding behind a girl's skirt ? noteDhero said: Hmm...I'm watching Bakemongatari, Umi Monogatari, Canaan, Tokyo Magnitude, Zan Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Spice and Wolf II, and Umineko no naku koro ni. How are Tokyo Magnitude & Umi Monogatari ? I thought that they are boring based on the trailers but some rare times my judgement can be off so just wonder... BTW, did you watch Kanamemo, Fight! Ippatsu Juden Chan, & Princess Lover, yet ? |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| The thing is though, we're not that old...but I guess compared to 14 and 16 year olds we are :( I don't really bother trying to understand why shounen leads are the way they are. Something about it resonates, and I fail to understand it. Tokyo Magnitude's first episode was really great. The best first of what I've seen thus far. It has a cliffhanger ending while still managing to tell a full story. Umi Monogatari is not what I expected at all. It's classic magical girl deliciousness. Imagine my surprise when I think I'm watching some random show and all of a sudden there are transformations and monsters! It's campy goodness. I haven't seen Kanamemmo or the others. They all seem like moe or ecchi garbage that I just don't have the energy for after watching K-On and a few other shows this year. |
noteDhero said: Tokyo Magnitude's first episode was really great. The best first of what I've seen thus far. It has a cliffhanger ending while still managing to tell a full story. Umi Monogatari is not what I expected at all. It's classic magical girl deliciousness. Imagine my surprise when I think I'm watching some random show and all of a sudden there are transformations and monsters! It's campy goodness. Well , guess Imma give it a shot now; considering fansub is pretty low recently, I do not have much choices anyway. As for magical girl stuffs, I tend to love their parody counterpart much more than the actual magical girls hence why I'm enjoying Ippatsu Juden Chan right now, "Bitch-kun" FTW!!! noteDhero said: I haven't seen Kanamemmo or the others. They all seem like moe or ecchi garbage that I just don't have the energy for after watching K-On and a few other shows this year. They are indeed Moe & Ecchi but its not your everyday Moe & Ecchi like Rosario Vambitch or Sekirei so dont worry. Since I was a sucker for Romance, I decided to watch Princess Lover while expecting a typical balls less male lead but it turns out the leads were out of my expectations, in a good way,especially the male lead since he was cool & its REASONABLE for girls to fall for him instead of the fact that girls love main dude cuz he was KIND. Also, censoring somehow helps to ease my irritation for crotch shots outta nowhere, guess that's why Ecchi animes tend to have bad reputation, I personally dont mind fan service but I wanna watch a story instead of gawking at girls' panties. Dunno how it will turn out for 2nd ep but Princess Lover is on my fav anime list now. No comment for Kanamemo for now as I only watched 1 ep. |
BitchMasterJul 11, 2009 11:08 PM
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| I like parodies too, but Juden-chan didn't seem like a parody as much as it did moe fanservice...that and the whole concept just bothers me. I just hate fanservice because it always takes away from the plot. Those seconds that I guy falls into someone's chest or the slow pan up a girls skirt is wasted time they could be using to make good character. |
noteDhero said: I like parodies too, but Juden-chan didn't seem like a parody as much as it did moe fanservice...that and the whole concept just bothers me. I just hate fanservice because it always takes away from the plot. Those seconds that I guy falls into someone's chest or the slow pan up a girls skirt is wasted time they could be using to make good character. Well, here's something that I cannot argue even if I want to. I mean, fanservice is OK as long as there's only 1 or 2 pantyshots, but not overuse them; if fans want more, they can always go to H section. But oh well, we are only spectators who watch anime for free so our opinion didnt matter much anyway, 'specially against hordes of horny fanboys, sigh... |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| Good episode... but I have to agree that I don't feel sorry for his horny ass at all.. |
  |
| He had it coming for all his doings, yet I still feel mildy sorry for him. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Genji had it coming, and yet I get the feeling he doesn't give a damn about anything. Very hard to give a damn about him. |
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