For Those Who Either Have or are Thinking of Dropping - Don't Do It.

Nov 14, 2013 9:28 PM

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Oct 2012

6648

If my speculation is correct, this show will have an awesome payoff.

Don't read my spoiler if you are the type of kid who wanted to wait until xmas to unwrap your present, because if you love to be surprised then you should wait and see what the writer has in store for you.

However, if you are like me and are the type of kid who not only opened his presents, but returned the ones he didn't like for store credit and re-wrapped them with what you wanted, then read my spoiler. I could be completely wrong mind you, but I am pretty confident on this one.

If you want to comment, please spoil responses.

Let's start with the first oddity. What was the whole deal about geocentricism. Not only did they bring it up once, they did it twice, but there has been no further mention of it. Add into this the big deal they made about Theo making a telescope. This was odd, telescopes given the technology shown, are not that hard to make, but they made a point of saying how Theo had to use old Galileo sketches to figure out how to make one. Why would people abandon such technology? If they had it, why would they not know that the universe is heliocentric?

When this first came up we speculated conspiracy or that maybe this is an alternative universe where the world really is geocentric. I don't think so anymore, the big point with Theo last week convinced me otherwise.

A final bit of data: add into this that the only celestial object they have shown is the moon (I went back to confirm, they have never shown the sun, daylight is diffused lighting, even through the telescope there was only the barest twinkling of stars).

What does all this mean?

They are not on earth. They are on a Generational Colony Ship whose name is probably Galileo. The approaching ice age is the ships life support system failing. The reason Houzaki wants to go to Japan is not because "Japan" is the country of Japan, but it is probably where the bridge/engine room of the ship is, and Houzaki knows that she has to fix it or everyone is doomed (that Houzaki knows a bunch of stuff she hasn't told us is clear when they showed the security system seeing Anna searching for info, the system would obviously had told Houzaki, but she has never said anything).

The Galileo of this series is probably an AI, what the sketches are talking about is the discovery of this AI that there are other Colony Ships, and most likely other AI's out in the universe.

Think about it. If they were in a ship, then their universe would be geocentric because they are the center of their own system. Being in a ship, this is why they don't have a sun, and why they can barely, if even, see stars. The moon may very likely be some sort of command structure where Galileo is. People have been on the broken ship for so long that they have forgotten they are on a ship (see Heinlein's great story Universe for the origin of this motif), because they are on a ship with nothing in the sky to see, they have abandoned telescopes and similar devices.

Last episode they brought up the question of where Houzaki was getting the fuel for the ship, this episode we learned that her goldfish can convert matter to energy. Particle annihilator anyone? The Goldfish is probably the original drive of the ship which has been stolen, which is why the ship's systems are failing. If this is actually a ship not only would it explain why there are so few settlements, but also why everyone keeps running into everyone else (the maps trick us into thinking that the world is the size of earth, but if it were much smaller a lot of the problems mentioned are solved, they run into each other because there really aren't that many settlements, those maps don't show scale, so these cities may actually be most of the territory shown).

This is the general theory, please feel free to either add details or poke holes in it, but this is where I see this show going. If true, then this show, far from being random or forced, has actually been extremely subtle and is building to a very cool ending).

Nov 14, 2013 9:36 PM

fueille

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Sep 2013

492

I'll remember this to stop myself from dropping next time I watch Galilei Donna, thanks for the specula OP.

fueilleNov 14, 2013 9:48 PM

peeyaj said:
Fueille is a deconstruction of a decent human being.

Nov 16, 2013 7:54 PM

5Cats

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Sep 2013

339

The "plot holes" are getting bigger! Episode 4 has been overwhelmed already! I cannot take much more!

It looks great, and the story concept is good, but the WRITING is just AWEFUL!

And some things? like falling 4 stories onto... a pile of wrecked cars? What nation/city/village keeps piles of wrecked cars in their alley-ways? Why do they even HAVE cars when there's flying... things?

Just one of about 50 huge, ugly plot holes which are completely spoiling this show for me...

She builds a flying mecca, in her spare time, IN SECRET! and designs an brand-new AI for it, and communication devices, and weapons, and a mini-mecca... but isn't sure she can rescue her parents/sisters? GACK! I feel like her poor goldfish! Gasping for the sweet waters of INTELLIGENT STORY!
(poor fish!)

Nov 16, 2013 8:33 PM

wjxxhulka66n6

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Mar 2007

174

If you dropped shows because of plot holes then you shouldn't be watching anime or any show. Try sports. I don't think they have plot holes except wrestling.

Nov 16, 2013 9:13 PM

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

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5Cats said:
The "plot holes" are getting bigger! Episode 4 has been overwhelmed already! I cannot take much more!

It looks great, and the story concept is good, but the WRITING is just AWEFUL!

And some things? like falling 4 stories onto... a pile of wrecked cars? What nation/city/village keeps piles of wrecked cars in their alley-ways? Why do they even HAVE cars when there's flying... things?

That was explained in the episode thread. First it was less than 2 stories, you can actually count the floors; second, car roofs are built to give, so they are much better to land on then the actual ground; and third, this world has had a sudden collapse of energy in their world, all of a sudden 100's of millions of cars became useless and were abandoned with no means of the government being able to dispose of them properly.

5Cats said:
Just one of about 50 huge, ugly plot holes which are completely spoiling this show for me...

You say plot hole, I say a viewer who expects everything spoon feed to him because he is a complete idiot. Tomato, tomahto.

5Cats said:
She builds a flying mecca, in her spare time, IN SECRET! and designs an brand-new AI for it, and communication devices, and weapons, and a mini-mecca... but isn't sure she can rescue her

Mecca? Who knew she worshipped allah.

5Cats said:
Gasping for the sweet waters of INTELLIGENT STORY!

Why? It's not as if you could understand anything intelligent. You seem the type who philosophizes with a hammer.

Nov 17, 2013 7:43 AM

5Cats

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Sep 2013

339

Heavens! No need to be bloody rude about it @Takuan_Soho! I didn't think this was that sort of discussion forum.

Mecha, mecca (lower case) Tomato, tomahto... It's good for you too, yes?

So the cars were piled 20-30 feet high? Check! Makes perfect sense that no one scavenged them for metal...

There's "plot devices" and then there's "holes"
Like: literally tripping over the ONE GUY in all of Germany who can help you? Plot Device.
A little girl building huge aircraft (happy now?) complete with missiles and cannons and a bathtub and NO ONE notices it? Not even her own family?
Hole.
Another? Ep.05 These people are living in the snow & cold, with their windows wide OPEN? On the second floor no less? (so even more heat can escape) And fire drums burning outside? On the balcony?
Hole.

I had hoped one could voice an opinion here, I do hope these two ^above^ aren't typical of this discussion forum. *sigh*
Discussion, not juvenile insults, yes?

I'm not trying to berate the show, I'm offering my observations & opinions. If I didn't like it, I'd stop watching.

Nov 17, 2013 8:35 AM

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

5Cats said:
Heavens! No need to be bloody rude about it @Takuan_Soho! I didn't think this was that sort of discussion forum.

Why not? If you have issues with the episodes go to the episode threads. This thread is about where the show is heading. You want to gatecrash a thread spouting off things that you could have had answers to had you spent 5 minutes on the episode thread, why should I treat you any more than I would treat a lazy, obnoxious troll?

5Cats said:
So the cars were piled 20-30 feet high? Check! Makes perfect sense that no one scavenged them for metal...

Another thing that we answered on the episode 3 thread. The world is suffering a sudden and massive energy shortage, concurrent with a environmental and governmental collapse, and massive famine. Where would they get the energy to "recycle" the metal, why would they want to? There would be no profit to (for instance, most car recycling is done for parts, but there isn't a market for car parts anymore).
As for why would they have cars when they have skyfish? Do you think everyone could have a skyfish, nope those are only for the elite.

And if a city all of a sudden had millions of cars that turned useless overnight, with no organized government to take care of them, and with no real means of moving them, what else could you do with them then to toss them in places where they aren't in the way.

5Cats said:
A little girl building huge aircraft (happy now?) complete with missiles and cannons and a bathtub and NO ONE notices it? Not even her own family? Hole.

Nope, explained. Mother and two sisters didn't live with them, and the father was extremely indulgent of Houzaki. They all knew that Houzaki was a genius so her taking things to work on was perfectly normal for them (they even explained that Houzaki took apart a skyfish 3 years before the show). Mother knew that there was a prototype lab, but it had a security code protecting it (which Houzaki broke), so being busy (and not living there) she never checked. In that the family attic had blueprints, and it was a "prototype" lab, this means that an ancestor had invented the skyfish in that location, and therefore most of the parts were probably already there.

Also, in that the first episode was all about how alienated the family was from one another, that you think they would have noticed anything shows you weren't paying attention from the first.

Is it ridiculous that a 10 year old could build that, of course, but that is the entire premise of this show. Getting mad about that is like getting mad about Star Wars because there is no such thing as the Force. As for a "plot hole", no the writers went out of their way in this case to give out a plausible scenario, so while you may not like it, that isn't the failing of the show.

5Cats said:
Another? Ep.05 These people are living in the snow & cold, with their windows wide OPEN? On the second floor no less? (so even more heat can escape) And fire drums burning outside? On the balcony?

Stone building, former church, remember? And what else rises? Smoke. They have to ventilate the place you know.

Besides, didn't you notice that the entire front of the church was wide open? And the entire vaulted roof was made of glass? There was no place for the heat to be trapped.

It isn't as if the building has central heating. The only places that would be warm would be next to the fire. The only time shutting the windows would be beneficial would be if the wind was blowing, which it wasn't that night, it was calm. So no, not a plot hole, just a simple illustration of how far these people had fallen. This was the best place for shelter that they had, and they used it because it was big enough to house everyone for safety.

If you have questions you want answer, then ask them. Don't go on about how stupid a show is. Writers are smarter than us, they generally put more thought into their plots than 99.999% of the viewers. Odds are the information is there for you to figure things out. Do you understand the arrogance it requires to think that you are smarter than the writer? That they hadn't thought of something? Now, sometimes this is the case, but it is far far less than the viewers on MAL think. The problem isn't generally with the shows, but with the fact that people won't be humble and check to see if anyone else had thought of it and posted it on the episode threads. So what ends up happening is people saying the same things over and over and over and over again because they think their observation is so brilliant.

Takuan_SohoNov 17, 2013 9:19 AM

Nov 17, 2013 9:14 AM

5Cats

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Sep 2013

339

"If you have issues with the episodes go to the episode threads."
Yes SIR Thread Police Officer @Takuan_Soho SIR! :salutes:
Hint: I already did.

" a lazy, obnoxious troll"
Again with the insults? Are you 12?

"Where would they get the energy to "recycle" the metal"
Wood. Whole forests just sitting there. Wood makes charcoal which could be used to smelt metal. Aluminium for sure.
They can build flying cars, but cannot recycle metal?
Which is easier, cheaper, more energy efficient? Digging up fresh ore, or recycling existing (and free!) metals?

"Besides, didn't you notice that the entire front of the church was wide open? And the entire vaulted roof was made of glass?"
Um, duh? I noticed all those things and more: like no one wears a toque? Ok, a few had hats. I didn't think you wanted a complete list of details.

"There was no place for the heat to be trapped."
Funny that: greenhouses have glass roofs too, and CAN stay heated all winter long! Not very efficiently, of course, but they usually keep the windows and doors SHUT eh?

So people just get really stupid in the future and chose the single worst building to occupy? How does it have running water but no heat? Don't buildings in Europe have furnaces?
It's 'big enough' to house 300+ people! Not just 30! The town has countless abandoned buildings better suited for their group. But less suited for the "plot devices" eh?

They have future-tech mobile devices but no "map apps"?

I'm 'arrogant' for asking questions or making observations? I haven't even scratched the surface of all the things wrong with this show!
The writers may be smarter than YOU, so speak for yourself! Perhaps things are messed up in translation? idk, but I know poor writing when I see it.

Doesn't mean I don't like the show. Plot holes can be "filled in" later, it is possible! But things seem to be getting worse, not better. I'm wondering if I'll bother to keep watching or not...

OH LOOK! That's the topic of this thread! Sheesh.

You must be 12 after all... 10 perhaps? Anyhow you know nothing about coldness and winter: I'm a Canadian = checkmate, dude. Or dudette, whatever.

Nov 17, 2013 9:40 AM

ToG25thBaam

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Jun 2011

14434

@Takuan_Soho
Not to be rude, but you're trying way too hard to defend this show. There are plot hole and convenient plot devices everywhere. Everything seems to be easy in our eyes, no real suspense or anything.

5Cats said:

I'm 'arrogant' for asking questions or making observations? I haven't even scratched the surface of all the things wrong with this show!
The writers may be smarter than YOU, so speak for yourself! Perhaps things are messed up in translation? idk, but I know poor writing when I see it.

Bolded: Agree.

5Cats said:
Doesn't mean I don't like the show. Plot holes can be "filled in" later, it is possible! But things seem to be getting worse, not better. I'm wondering if I'll bother to keep watching or not...

Well you might as well endure it until the end, it's only a one cour anime and you're already halfway there. Plus, the art style is an eye candy.

Honobono Log - best slice of life short
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Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control

Nov 17, 2013 10:04 AM

#10

Takuan_Soho

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6648

5Cats said:
Yes SIR Thread Police Officer @Takuan_Soho SIR! :salutes:

Police? By pointing out that thread-jacking is considered rude? As I said, had you come here and asked some simple polite questions I would have answered politely, as I have done on the threads. You come in saying how stupid everything is (while saying: "WRITING is just AWEFUL!"), and you wonder why people to you aren't polite in return?

Even 12 year old's understand that.

5Cats said:
Wood. Whole forests just sitting there. Wood makes charcoal which could be used to smelt metal. Aluminium for sure. They can build flying cars, but cannot recycle metal?

Didn't say they couldn't just said that there wasn't any profit to it on a large scale. The only mining they have shown here is the methane-hydrate mine, while they have said that there is massive unemployment. I am sure they are recycling some cars, but there are over a billion cars in the world, and despite recycling being "energy efficient", there are still huge lots of rusting cars in our world. Why wouldn't the problem be worse there where all the cars are no longer being used?

Also, this isn't a "plot hole" regardless. We already know that Houzaki only fell 2 stories and landed on the roof a car, which is eminently survivable. So the plot hole has been filled. The question of why the cars really isn't involved in the plot, its back story which just a little thought can explain (and is completely consistent with the world as it has been depicted). Again, just because you don't like an explanation doesn't make it a plot hole.

5Cats said:
Um, duh? I noticed all those things and more: like no one wears a toque? Ok, a few had hats. I didn't think you wanted a complete list of details.

Seriously you are arguing that this show doesn't have people wearing hats? The thing that really makes me laugh about the detractors of this show is truly how pathetic their complaints are. Now had Houzaki fallen 6 stories onto the ground, THAT would have been a plot hole. But open windows? Not wearing hats?

5Cats said:
Funny that: greenhouses have glass roofs too, and CAN stay heated all winter long! Not very efficiently, of course, but they usually keep the windows and doors SHUT eh? So people just get really stupid in the future and chose the single worst building to occupy?

There was nothing to shut on the front of the building, so what would be the point of shutting the windows above? Now as you finally got around to the question would be why would they take shelter in such a building and not something that could be better heated, this would suggest that heat isn't their most pressing concern (security and food more likely is).

5Cats said:
How does it have running water but no heat? Don't buildings in Europe have furnaces? It's 'big enough' to house 300+ people! Not just 30! The town has countless abandoned buildings better suited for their group. But less suited for the "plot devices" eh?

Actually, how was having people living in the "church" suited for the plot? The story did not need to have them living in the building, they could have been in a building next door. Neither a plot device or a plot hole (a better example of a plot device was in episode 3 when the guy was using the sketch as a place mat)

5Cats said:
They have future-tech mobile devices but no "map apps"?

Do you actually listen to yourself? Seriously you are complaining about the lack of apps.

5Cats said:
I'm 'arrogant' for asking questions or making observations? I haven't even scratched the surface of all the things wrong with this show!

No, you are arrogant because you think that you are smarter than the writers. You're an ass because 70% of your complaints are things that every work of fiction in the world doesn't address because it would take forever to explain or interferes with the visual aspect of an animation (hats? And star wars sucks because the rebel pilots have helmets that let you see their faces) , and the other 30% are explainable with a tiny bit of effort.

Nov 17, 2013 10:38 AM

#11

Takuan_Soho

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6648

ToG25thBaam said:
@Takuan_Soho
Not to be rude, but you're trying way too hard to defend this show. There are plot hole and convenient plot devices everywhere. Everything seems to be easy in our eyes, no real suspense or anything.

You're not being rude, and yes this show does have some plot holes, and yes and things have been too easy (primarily because it is moving too fast that they are speeding over a lot of things). But that said, if I am right, this show in the end will make sense. So I am asking for a little patience because I think most viewers have really missed out on a lot of subtle bits of foreshadowing that will make this show interesting in the end.

But what is aggravating is that most of the complaints people are making have either been explained or are due to a lack of attention. Houzaki falling is a good one. If one watches the scene, they could see that she only fell two stories (the floors have visible markings), not six (which would have been a plot hole).

Now this is easy to miss, so I don't fault people for questioning it. But to then go on and complain about a stack of cars? I mean seriously? I mean first of all why couldn't there be a stack of cars there? There are stacks of cars in most cities (i.e. junk yards), so the only unusual thing here is that these have been stacked in a back alleyway. But is even this really a "plot hole" or even a "plot device", does one really have to be explained why they were there? Nope, the reason these people are pointing this out is because they can't accept that their "plot hole" of Houzaki falling was actually explained, so they shift their ire to something else. That is what is annoying.

But even worse, that there was a stack of cars in a city is completely in keeping with the theme of the story: a society that is crumbling around everyone. So not only is the argument about the stack of cars petty, it is also incredibly dense because they cannot even understand the world the writer has invented. Its like the people on the Nagi no Asukara thread complaining that they are using paper underwater, its like people don't understand the concept of a fantasy world and demand that everything be just like this world. I get that some people are that way, but if they are they should stick to pure fiction, or more likely non-fiction.

Nov 17, 2013 10:38 AM

#12

5Cats

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Sep 2013

339

"and is completely consistent with the world as it has been depicted"

I don't recall seeing huge piles of cars in other scenes... I'm not about to re-watch 6 episodes to look for them either! I'm just saying: it's mighty convenient that the only "pile of cars" I can recall seeing is directly under the falling Main Character...

I'm not even nit-picking how a 13 year-old girl can jump 20+ feet from a standing start! You should be grateful! Yeah, the other balcony is 1 floor lower & all that stuff... Why don't the bad guys grab her as she lays there unconscious?

So: massive unemployment & poverty, but no one tries to "make a buck" off of scrapping? idk...

It's COLD OUT! Snow? Freezing temperatures? It's not like it just got that way overnight, eh? It's the Ice Age! Put a sweater on! And mittens too!

Cover the openings with: blankets, boards, tarpaulins, tin, plywood? Ever seen a "shanty town"? There's lots of metal just laying in the nearby alleys it seems...

They wander around a small town without being able to find the church on their palmtop's map? They cannot call up a modern map and superimpose the two? They have a talking computer goldfish!
Why does that town only have one church? Has it moved since 1640? Of course the reason they couldn't find it was because it had been converted... that part is acceptable.
Do Europeans often convert 400 year-old buildings into train stations? The ONLY church in town? That's weird to me.

All fiction requires "suspension of disbelief", yeah! Obviously. That doesn't justify poor writing.

Nov 17, 2013 10:54 AM

#13

5Cats

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Sep 2013

339

"She ONLY fell 20 feet..." (a paraphrase)
Landing on her head, on metal, bouncing repeatedly...
That makes the pile of cars 20+ feet high...
I know: the first jump is from floor 6 to floor 4. Is that "only" a 20 foot drop or is it more now?

It "beggars the imagination" and that's not the viewer's fault.

There's stacks of cars 20 feet high in the streets of YOUR home town? Wow!

This is not an "abandoned city" like the next episode: you can see aircraft and such are plentiful in the background! The windows are all intact, the elevators work, & etc.

Why aren't any doors locked? Europeans must be a trusting bunch, despite the pirates, eh?

Sorry @ToG25thBaam I overlooked your post there!
Yes I'll probably watch it all! It is lovely to look at, and the characters are interesting too! I even like the goldfish AI.
And just because I see faults? Doesn't make it "a bad show". Until it wraps up it's just an "ongoing opinion" and subject to change, obviously!

Sorry #2: @Takuan_Soho I didn't notice this was your thread! That does (in my opinion) give you some say in what goes on. I didn't mean to "highjack" it! I said I might not continue and then said why. To me that's reasonable. Of course we've gotten "a little bit off topic" since then I admit...

I didn't read the spoiler, other than it's about the energy source referred to in Ep.01 (and seen in later episodes). That's WHY it's in a spoiler box, yes?

5CatsNov 17, 2013 11:10 AM

Nov 17, 2013 9:11 PM

#14

SageShinigami

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Dec 2007

1048

ITT: Most people don't know what the words "plot hole" mean.

Jumping in Headfirst - I hear reading it causes immortality. Warning. Reading may not actually cause immortality.

Nov 17, 2013 10:02 PM

#15

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

5Cats said:
"She ONLY fell 20 feet..." (a paraphrase)
Landing on her head, on metal, bouncing repeatedly...
That makes the pile of cars 20+ feet high...
I know: the first jump is from floor 6 to floor 4. Is that "only" a 20 foot drop or is it more now?

It "beggars the imagination" and that's not the viewer's fault.

There's stacks of cars 20 feet high in the streets of YOUR home town? Wow!

This is not an "abandoned city" like the next episode: you can see aircraft and such are plentiful in the background! The windows are all intact, the elevators work, & etc.

Why aren't any doors locked? Europeans must be a trusting bunch, despite the pirates, eh?

Sorry @ToG25thBaam I overlooked your post there!
Yes I'll probably watch it all! It is lovely to look at, and the characters are interesting too! I even like the goldfish AI.
And just because I see faults? Doesn't make it "a bad show". Until it wraps up it's just an "ongoing opinion" and subject to change, obviously!

Sorry #2: @Takuan_Soho I didn't notice this was your thread! That does (in my opinion) give you some say in what goes on. I didn't mean to "highjack" it! I said I might not continue and then said why. To me that's reasonable. Of course we've gotten "a little bit off topic" since then I admit...

I didn't read the spoiler, other than it's about the energy source referred to in Ep.01 (and seen in later episodes). That's WHY it's in a spoiler box, yes?

NP, occasionally I come off sounding more shrill than I mean, so the fault was also on my end.

Based on how her body was falling and spinning, she most fell on her back, not her head. I know that 99% of the people watching this would not have caught this, the only reason I noticed that she was spinning was because someone else noticed that it was only 20 feet and I watched that scene frame by frame to confirm the distance and that was how I noticed that she didn't land head first.

But screw that, the purpose of this thread wasn't to explain away problems that people were having, but rather that I believe I pieced together where this story is going and that it will prove to be satisfying in the end even to the most skeptical of viewer. I put it in spoilers because I don't like to speculate too much and ruin things for people enjoying watching it, but wanted to put it down for people who may drop it because they were getting annoyed with how this show was skipping over a lot of things and may drop it for that reason (I personally fall into that camp, life is too short to waste it on uninteresting things).

While in my spoiler I did think that the goldfish was an energy converter, I don't think that is the case any longer. Her device absorbs energy (explosions the last two episodes) it doesn't create it. I still think it my overall idea is accurate (if you want to know read the spoiler), just the form it takes is a little different.

Dec 13, 2013 6:20 PM

#16

Sebastian333

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Mar 2010

886

pl0x to everyone . Anyway thanks this thread made me want to keep up my expectations , even though I haven't yet watch it , lolz

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Dec 19, 2013 2:15 PM

#17

Zekkenshin

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Dec 2012

16211

wjxxhulka66n6 said:
If you dropped shows because of plot holes then you shouldn't be watching anime or any show. Try sports. I don't think they have plot holes except wrestling.

There's a difference between those plot holes in stories that are created by the needle that enters the fabric and weaves the story and plot holes that look worse than Wall Maria on a bad day.

@ OP - interesting speculation, but I'll go ahead and say this does nothing for those who are considering dropping this.

Dec 19, 2013 2:39 PM

#18

DmonHiro

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Jan 2008

1942

Takuan_Soho said:
If my speculation is correct, this show will have an awesome payoff.

Your calculations were completely wrong.

Dec 19, 2013 2:45 PM

#19

stand

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Aug 2011

7305

You gave this show way too much credit.

Dec 19, 2013 3:25 PM

#20

WandererSeph

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Nov 2013

I'm really hoping this anime is just finished for now and will continue later... Otherwise I should have listened to my gut and dropped this show long ago.

Dec 19, 2013 3:25 PM

#21

fst

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Mar 2013

20064

And this, kids, is why speculation shouldn't be taken too seriously. You can choose whatever you want, and interpret it however you want.

Winter 2017 tl;dr Season Preview

Dec 20, 2013 6:04 PM

#22

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

parfaited said:
You gave this show way too much credit.

Yep, far too much credit, that is generally where I fail, I see all this wonderful potential and they never use it. I apologized last week with the Gomen Nasai thread, but that doesn't cover how much of a waste this show turned into. So, allow me to personally apologize to you personally.

And to WandersSeph, I apologize for wasting your time as well.

These type of shows are worse then bad shows because the gap with what it could be is just so much greater. This had a great beginning and a lot of really cool ideas that could have been used, and some good dark scenes, but the same flaw was there from start to finish, instead of tying these threads together, the writer just keep on going off on tangents, never really tying in any of the things covered before. This gives me no hope for the future. I haven't been this disappointed in a show since Suisei.

Dec 20, 2013 6:47 PM

#23

Valaskjalf

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Apr 2011

4658

I have a feeling OP is regretting making this thread after the last episode

lol

Dec 20, 2013 6:55 PM

#24

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

Valaskjalf said:
I have a feeling OP is regretting making this thread after the last episode

lol

Regret? If someone watched based upon my prediction, yes a bit.

But that I was wrong? Heavens no. I love speculating on shows, but speculation means that one will often be wrong. No shame in that, be afraid to fail, you will never succeed at anything.

For me speculating makes watching the show even more entertaining, even if the show ended with a dull thud, I at least enjoyed coming up with those alternative outcomes. Its good practice for the imagination.

Dec 20, 2013 9:08 PM

#25

stand

Offline

Aug 2011

7305

Takuan_Soho said:

parfaited said:
You gave this show way too much credit.

No need to apologize! I did not keep watching this show because of this thread.
Since it was only 11 episodes and the first 2 episodes were quite good I never had any intention of dropping it.

I did read this thread back in November when you posted it and thought your speculations were really nice/interesting but even back then I was thinking you were giving it maybe a little too much credit.

Well at least the visuals were good and I always liked the opening song.

standDec 20, 2013 9:13 PM

Dec 21, 2013 6:14 AM

#26

DawnJ

Offline

Jan 2013

1355

This show has HISTORICAL value. Ancestor-Descendant romance, who'd have known? You all are witnesses of this miracle and shall be proud.

日本人はイッちゃってるよ
あいつら未来に生きてんな

Dec 21, 2013 6:10 PM

#27

5Cats

Offline

Sep 2013

339

Takuan_Soho - it was a nice theory, being wrong doesn't make it bad! I had a wonderful theory for Monogatari Series that was shot down in flames... it was still beautiful!

The ending leaves a second season wide open. I'd probably watch, it's lovely eye-candy, eh? Just don't THINK while watching it! Lolz!

Dec 21, 2013 6:45 PM

#28

Takuan_Soho

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

5Cats said:
Takuan_Soho - it was a nice theory, being wrong doesn't make it bad! I had a wonderful theory for Monogatari Series that was shot down in flames... it was still beautiful!

The ending leaves a second season wide open. I'd probably watch, it's lovely eye-candy, eh? Just don't THINK while watching it! Lolz!

I wish I could, but I am one of those people who has to obsess over what they are doing (including watching), I couldn't stop even if I tried. I generally like being this way, but there are times when I regret it!

The biggest problem I had with this show wasn't even the ending, it was more with the pacing. Unless the writer wrote the script at 12 episodes and later had to cut it down to 11 (which may have been the case, it certainly had that feel), then the writer should be sued for malpractice. You don't introduce new plot lines (i.e. the trial) in the final episode, particularly when you have so much to clear up. This episode literally had the feel of the writer dumping his entire folder on a desk and saying "you end it then".

Dec 22, 2013 11:37 AM

#29

Nefarious

Offline

Dec 2010

1719

Takuan_Soho said:
Unless the writer wrote the script at 12 episodes and later had to cut it down to 11 (which may have been the case, it certainly had that feel), then the writer should be sued for malpractice. You don't introduce new plot lines (i.e. the trial) in the final episode, particularly when you have so much to clear up. This episode literally had the feel of the writer dumping his entire folder on a desk and saying "you end it then".

It was supposed to be 11 from the beginning, this is noitaminA we're talking about here, all their shows air in either 11 or 22 episodes. And to be honest even if this speculation was true, the show still would've been crap.

Dec 22, 2013 11:55 AM

#30

Takuan_Soho

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

Goomoonryong said:
It was supposed to be 11 from the beginning, this is noitaminA we're talking about here, all their shows air in either 11 or 22 episodes. And to be honest even if this speculation was true, the show still would've been crap.

I actually went to check who wrote this and discovered that there were 4 script writers (not episode writers, but script writers). That never is a good sign, particularly for an original work. Committee writing can work if the show is episodic, but for a progressive series, it almost always becomes a muddled mess as too many compromises are made between the writers. Unless there is a single person who can take the ideas and rewrite them into an organized whole, you get what this show became: a muddled mess where ideas are introduced, but never developed or even mentioned again, where the parts and never pulled together into a whole, and an ending which has to be rushed because good endings usually require a single vision that starts one or two episodes before the end.

While I agree that the show ended up crap, and (I was afraid of this back in November around episode 7 which is why I started this thread to begin with (acknowledging that people had good reason to drop it)), a good 10 and 11 could have easily have saved this series. But they would have needed a good 10 to start tying up the plot so that 11 wouldn't be so hectic, when they didn't do it in 10, I knew my hopes for this show had been dashed (which is why I apologized then on my "Gomen Nasai" thread). Shame really, it was a lovely concept, had some excellent strings, a better writer could have made this a strong 8 or 9 show instead of what it became.

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