Monogatari Series: Second Season
Will Monogatari: Second Season surpass Bakemonogatari?
| I've read topics in the past discussing Nisemonogatari and Nekomonogatari: Kuro, and in each one, there's always someone (typically many people, but always at least one person) who says something along the lines of, "Bakemonogatari is still the best." "Bakemonogatari is yet to be topped." But with the recent surge of love for this show (mine included) I was just a bit curious as to what MAL really thinks of Monogatari Second Season. So, just as the topic states: do you think that Monogatari Series: Second Season has surpassed or will surpass Bakemonogatari? Please include reasons; I'd rather this thread not get locked. In my opinion, it is very, VERY close. If they keep on going with the level of quality this past arc has had, I think it will most likely become better than its predecessor eventually. I mean, there were things that I didn't like about Bakemonogatari; the main thing being the triviality of Nadeko's arc. I didn't really feel that it had any bearing on the rest of the series, and it remains my least favorite arc to this day. Monogatari Second Season, on the other hand, hasn't really had such a below par arc yet (unless you count Kabuki, which I guess I could agree with), so in that regard, I think it may already be better. Please post away. I'm interested in seeing what you think. |
And what if all love is an act of bravery? Could you look me in the eye and say that you are not afraid?  |
| Only the final arc will prevail. Actually this second season adaptation is kinda surpassing the original novels by far. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
| Yes, it will eventually. (your vote) It honestly depends on the final arc ( Hitagi's end) |
| Novel-wise, obviously yes. I mean, the mystery is deepened and intense as the story goes on. Anime-wise, well, we'll see how well SHAFT produce the rest of Otori, Oni and Koi. Not to forget, Hanamonogatari. Edit: Actually Nadeko's arc is the main plot of Second Season. Since the series is not produce chronologically, you'll need to focus more on Nadeko Medusa, Shinobu Time, Tsubasa Tiger and Hitagi End to get the essence of the Second Season series. You will probably understand my points when the story goes on, eventually. |
yukaru00Oct 8, 2013 8:23 AM
| In my mind, it probably already has, even though it hasn't surpassed Nekomonogatari Kuro yet in my mind, but that's slightly impossible in a way. The way the Anime does the alternative narrators (changing art style subtly) is one of the definite high points for the Second season, even though the original Nadeko arc in Bake was supposed to be this way. The reason why it won't surpass Nekomonogatari Kuro is just me. It was the definite turning point where it became the very best. But, the irony is in the fact that even though Nekomonogatari Kuro hits closest to home to me emotionally, the impact of what the ending of it makes to the series is the most important. It led me to watch the series all over again, leading me to my ultimate discovery in the anime, which in turn made the series the best there is in my mind. So, yeah... There's still lot to cover for this season, and I think the sheer volume of the content makes Second Season the top dog objectively speaking. That is because they have finally mastered the use of character lens, which in turn leads ultimately to higher-quality content. |
| I MAY BE MAD, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE SOME DIGNITY ! If you must go deeper... Check this blog. Bakemonogatari 101, a must read for any fan! Attack on Titan: Theory of Lies (HEAVY SPOILERS) |
| I personally reserve my judgement until the season is finished in order to use the full package as comparison, but if the rest of the season can keep up the quality it showed so far, then I think S2 will easily surpass Bakemono. Actually, if I had to make judgement over S2 based on what it did so far, I think S2 does the best job to live up to Bakemono's standards so far, to the point they're pretty much equal to me at this point if S2 is not slightly better. I kinda-sorta liked Nisemono's first arc for what it was but the second arc was awful, and Nekomono:Kuro wasn't as close to Bakemono as S2 is so far (even though it was a good arc in general, and massive improvement over Nisemono for me), but S2 is essentially what I hoped Nisemono to be. The kind of sequel that not only feels really similar (not indendical, similar, there's a difference) to its predecessor, but also takes the story to the next level via putting emphasis on expanding and putting established characters into different perspectives, and (apparently) making the arcs more different not only from each other, but from Bake's arcs as well when it comes to raw concepts (Neko:Shiro -> Koyomi is absent almost the entire time, Hanekawa is the lead and the arc is drastically different than her previous two arcs; Kabuki -> Time travel, apocalyptic world; Otori -> Sengoku is the lead, first instance where the victim turns into a villain). The only thing I think Nise/Neko:Kuro did better so far is the cinematography department: I get the impression that S2 cheats more frequently with its camera placements. It improved in Kabuki and Otori, but I think the first two episodes of Neko:Shiro relied on zoomed-out scenes too many times for its own good, particularly the scenes revolving around Hanekawa and Senjou living under the same roof (or the Hanekawa/Mayoi scene at the beginning of episode 1, for that matter). I hope the disc release will improve upon this, because otherwise I like that S2's visual flavour essentially the balance between the more relaxed, minimalist nature of Bake with the improved cinematography philosophy of the later installments. (Yes, I'm aware I'm mostly favouring S2 via the way I praise it, but as I said, I'd rather wait till the whole package is complete than to make premature judgement I'll have to take back if my final impression won't gonna be as good as it is right now. Even so, I still like this season a lot even if the only thing I take into account is that it made me more interested in the franchise after Nise watered down my interest to a degree, and Neko:Kuro made it return) |
| What is the definition of "surpass"? Just my personal feeling about the anime? Or something else? |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: What is the definition of "surpass"? Just my personal feeling about the anime? Or something else? Personally, subjectively, in your opinion, has Monogatari: Second Season become better than Bakemonogatari? That's the question I'm asking here. |
And what if all love is an act of bravery? Could you look me in the eye and say that you are not afraid? |
| I'd say no, but it's well on it's way. I will say that it is a fantastic series that is at least on-par and maybe a peg behind. I am hopeful though. This is one of my favorite anime of the year so far and it has been pretty outstanding thus far. |
| imo, as much as i love Bakemonogatari, i have to choose the second option, i.e S2 will eventually surpass Bakemonogatari. |
My DeviantArt and Pixiv and still waiting patiently for a 3rd season of Spice & Wolf :'| |
| It better, this is so much better than bakemonogatari :D |
| In my opinion not quite yet. This series needs more Senjougahara in it for me to say it surpasses Bakemono! lol. But who knows, this series is still far from over. We'll just have to wait and see. |
| "No matter how much of a genius one is, in front of the Uchiha name, they're just ordinary people." - Sasuke Uchiha |
Uchihafan25 said: In my opinion not quite yet. This series needs more Senjougahara in it for me to say it surpasses Bakemono! lol. Took the words out of my mouth haha. |
 |
| I have yet to see as impactful an episode as Bake episode 12 was. I demand a second date episode. |
Grouchio said: I have yet to see as impactful an episode as Bake episode 12 was. I demand a second date episode. i'm not ashamed to say that ep 12 alone is the biggest reason why i love Bakemonogatari the most. |
My DeviantArt and Pixiv and still waiting patiently for a 3rd season of Spice & Wolf :'| |
| Not yet, but it appears to be on its way. |
| the fact that they were able my least favorite character (hanekawa) in the series my favorite character because of the exact same reasons that i previously disliked her in the first 5 episodes makes me think that it already is. bake is still amazing but it had the tedious task of having to introduce all of the characters and making us care about them while this one can develop and expand upon they're personalities to a new level. |
| The ending to Otorimonogatari had me at the edge of my seat the entire time, and if the last two arcs are as good or better, then this will be an easy nine. |
And what if all love is an act of bravery? Could you look me in the eye and say that you are not afraid? |
| It'ts not there yet, but it could get there. |
| It did with its first arc. However Kizu will obliterate this season. |
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| Probably. It's too early to say anything for certain, because it's not finished. This season has been excellent. Can't wait to re-watch it on BD. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| Not at this time, but I think it will when it finish :) |
 |
ShanaFlame said: Not at this time, but I think it will when it finish :) Exactly! well we got a marvelous story in Monogatari Series Second Season, i loved Shinobu arch, how could be too good like that! Pararagi-kun and Shinobu-chan made my brain explode some times, i love story like that, but this one has been the most amazing ever! btw i don't liked arch nadeko-chan... the most important person in the series Senjougahara Hitagi is almost here =P |
| I would've liked Kabuki more if the underlying theme wasn't about Araragi being a lolicon. Shinobu looks like a loli anyways. I don't think Bakemonogatari will be surpassed until an episode of better quality than Bake episode 12 is made. And that takes effort, even for SHAFT. |
Grouchio said: I would've liked Kabuki more if the underlying theme wasn't about Araragi being a lolicon. Shinobu looks like a loli anyways. Lol. Where did you get that idea anyways? Thing is, Kabuki's underlying theme is all about the bond between Araragi and Shinobu being stronger. I forgot how long they have spent their days in the alternate route but that time is long enough to make them understand each other. Araragi is always a lolicon, and if you dislike that, you'll be in huge disappointment for the next arc. |
| Yeah I know. :p |
| Just waiting for the last arc, but... Grouchio said: I don't think Bakemonogatari will be surpassed until an episode of better quality than Bake episode 12 is made. And that takes effort, even for SHAFT. |
mugimugi said: yukaru00 said: Grouchio said: I would've liked Kabuki more if the underlying theme wasn't about Araragi being a lolicon. Shinobu looks like a loli anyways. Lol. Where did you get that idea anyways? Thing is, Kabuki's underlying theme is all about the bond between Araragi and Shinobu being stronger. I forgot how long they have spent their days in the alternate route but that time is long enough to make them understand each other. Araragi is always a lolicon, and if you dislike that, you'll be in huge disappointment for the next arc. Kabuki made them decide to die together. It also prevents Shinobu from destryoing the world in their timeline. Having all the monogatari series in favs and still think that the point of the series is about loli and ecchi,and of course they "figure" that out like 20+ eps later, and disregard all the other shit..... |
| Personally, I think bakemonogatari has already been passed in Nisemonogatari, and this season passes that. Only in Nekomonogatari was I not utterly impressed by Shaft's effort and the storytelling. While I aggree bakemonogatari was more "original"(hard to say that since they are just continuation of the series), bakemonogatari isn't as enjoyable as Nise/MSSS. ---------- In Nise we got Kaiki, shinobu, and the fire sisters. Which I believe top everyone but Kanbaru and Senjouhara from Bakemonogatari -Personally I hated both Sengoku(irrelevant/useless character then) and Tsubasa(well just because she wasn't as interesting as the others). Then in MSSS we get AWESOME tsubasa, and AWESOME Sengoku, both topping the originals from bake and giving us some fricking awesome plot/developement. -Plus a giant fluffy tiger and a smart-A snake. ------------------ I'm hard pressed to find what I like more about Bakemonogatari more than Nise and MSSS. Outside of Kanbaru's arc and episodes 3+12, there isn't much holding over the others. Like...that fight scene between yotsugi and shinobu with aragi getting beat the crap out of in Nise? The conversations with his sisters? Kaiki? OMFG KAKII!!!!!!! (every scene with him was awesome). Shinobu's "ka-ka"?! Then MSSS we have both tiger closure and time travel loli anime. Along with brutal snake and hopefull the return of the best character, kaiki. ----------------------------------- Gotta say, Bakemonogatari was great, but I have always enjoyed the sequels more.(for once in a series) |
| Have I got news for you then, sjwho2. |
Grouchio said: Have I got news for you then, sjwho2. Yes i know. Kaiki is everyone's hero. He lives on. In our hearts. In our minds. In everything we say and do. |
| i think there was 1 thing missing in bakemonogatari the vampire she is such a nice char :D |
| My favorite quotes from animes: Those who seek miracles will never experience one. The hand of salvation only extends to people who try to make miracles happen. - Ef a tale of melodies. I destroy worlds. I create worlds. - Code geass We are humans. - Shinsekai yori 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, and a 10km run EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! - One punch man |
| Well... the question, if MSSS surpasses Bakemonogatari is highly dependant upon what you are looking for in the series and what you watch it for. Both have done some things better and worse than the other. MSSS is a lot more story-driven and boasts amazing character development, especially with regard to Sengoku and Hachikuji, who i didnt like before at all, but also for Hanekawa and Shinobu. However, when compared to Bakemonogatari, in my opinion the dialogues have lost a lot of their wittiness and focus (which may also be due to the absence of Senjougahara) and sometimes it actually feels like the characters are just rambling on - while in Bakemonogatari, even if they did go on a tangent, they almost always discussed interesting concepts at least. The most noticable difference for me though is the loss of a lot of what i would call the "artsy" style and artistic claim Bakemonogatari had and which was the main reason i liked this show so much: no more video sequences, no Lichtenstein-esque pop art, few surrealistic elements and visual imagery... it just feels like a lot of creativity in that department got lost along the way. So over all, though i still think MSSS is a great show, it takes a slightly different approach than Bakemonogatari. And so far, Bakemonogatari appealed to me just a little bit more due to these differences - even if its missing the cutest vampire loli of all times. :D |
MrPrinceSanjiNov 8, 2013 11:17 AM
| It could, if Senjougahara wasn't so neglected during all these arcs. She only made a minor (acceptable) appearance in Neko and nothing else (I'm not counting that phone call as one). Her screentime was replaced by Shinobu. And it's not like I dislike Shinobu, on the contrary, but I feel like Gahara has been forgotten a bit just because her problem is apparently solved. I hope she gets a more important role in Koi and Hana. |
| I don't know about surpassing things or not, because I already gave all the series 10/10 though I enjoyed Neko kuro & Nise a little better than Bake and 2nd Season |
blooddrunk said: It could, if Senjougahara wasn't so neglected during all these arcs. She only made a minor (acceptable) appearance in Neko and nothing else (I'm not counting that phone call as one). Her screentime was replaced by Shinobu. And it's not like I dislike Shinobu, on the contrary, but I feel like Gahara has been forgotten a bit just because her problem is apparently solved. I hope she gets a more important role in Koi and Hana. I believe she has her own arc after shinobu time and there is one book that translates to "Hitagi end" but I have yet to find a translation for it. |
| Glad to hear that. Actually, I remember reading something about it. |
| While Tsubasa Cat remains my favourite arc over all (esp, ep 12), I think the second season as a whole is better than Bake. What the main difference boils downs to that Bake was an introduction to the characters and setting. With that established we've now seen more interaction between characters and development in their relationships, in the second season. So, yeah this has surpassed Bake, in my opinion. |
| "True Nonoriri's have Buster Machines in their HEARTS!!!!" |
| So far I like Bakemonogatari the most out of all of them. It's by far the best and most enjoyable. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
| I'm hopeful, though it does kinda worry me that we're at episode 19 and we have what, two and a half arcs to go? I'm guessing they're gonna air some 7 episodes more at the very most. I don't want another mess like the Tsukihi arc, but the waiting for Bake was awful too. |
| I think this season is way better than Bakemonogatari. |
| Maybe. Even though the third arc and the fourth arc are definitely good. I found the first and second arc really weak compared to monogatari's standards. In the end it all bubbles down to how the rest of the series is. Looking forward to the rest. Dont let us down shaft! |
| Memories may fade, but that doesn't mean there isn't any point in making them. |
| I don't really care. I like everything in this series. |
 |
| Well, she's kinda above the others since she's koyomi's gf. I'd like to see them (or the author) developing their relationship a bit more, I mean, they're lovers after all. But yeah, you two got a point there and it's not like monogatari is over anyway. Knowing that there's still a lot of gahara to give leaves me more interested in following the series untill the end. I'm not saying the other arcs were boring or anything, I loved them all (and most of them were even better than hitagi's arc). |
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