| The Japanese government has sent a request to the United States to help stop illegal anime releases. The Japanese government claims that the downloads have been affecting their profits. Currently, there are many websites that allow people to watch anime illegally, one being YouTube. There are also many files being shared illegally on peer-to-peer networks such as BitTorrent. Source: ANN | Animeanime.jp |
ZelOct 23, 2007 3:29 PM
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| We will never be stoped, bring it on Nippon. |
| Hm, I would like to see how this all play out. This will end up with the Japanese accomplishing nothing. We all know the deal with the RIAA. Stopping this would be next to impossible to accomplish. |
HappyOct 23, 2007 3:23 PM
| Oh know everyone in canada and usa is gonna have to watch anime in english dub...AHHHHHHH!! *Commits suiside* I would really do it >>| IM NOT KIDDING X3 |
| pah, they can ask the American government all they want. I live in Canada not the USA :D T_T I wouldn't mind giving the Japanese money, I just refuse to pay a billion dollars for like dubs+crappy subs. -_- Plus I like watching anime that is new.... |
| Hmm. But will the United States gov't even do a thing? Who knows... |
| well, they asked the us, so canada is fine right. |
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| Interesting. Very interesting. Crunchy roll is gonna go downnnnn. |
| I'm already worried. Phack. O-o Time to go into hiding. o-O |
 Felli disapproves of this thread. |
| I get the thing about YouTube, and you should also include Google VIdeo and other sites. But BitTorrent.... that has nothing to do with USA, or any specific country for that matter. As for BitTorrent and other P2P networks, which really are the biggest troublemakers in this case, it would make more sense to acuse piracy-friendly countries like Sweden e.g. Speaking about Sweden, U.S. government have already tried making an influence on them by requesting a raid based on U.S. laws, but the case was dismissed which was a huge victory for pirate community (read about ThePirateBay). I don't know about USA; because they're already so aggressively limiting both (illegal) piracy and (legal) open-source software movements (please don't mix the two together!) by law and the DMCA, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they acknowledge the request. But to stop the real enemy. P2P sharing. is practically impossible. There will most probably always be people who are strongly against it, and in any real democratic country, the people together have the absolute rights. Please consider this post objective. I just want to state facts and try to realize the truth. I by no means want to choose sides or claim anyone or any country guilty for anything unfair. If any information here is incorrect or seems overly colored, please excuse me - I'll try to correct it. |
Help this cat on his quest for World Domination!
| This could be bad. Lets see how it will play out. |
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| I'm pretty sure if they get rid of all the eps on youtube and other straming sites that would literally be half the problem solved. |
| Quite interesting Helge, I did not know that much about Sweden! I think Isis is right, if they stopped streaming a bunch of people would be stopped... I don't mind if they stop streaming.. which is probably what they are going to try and do.. Usually people who stream have crappy computers, DL limits or whatever, so they would be more inclined to choose what they want more carefully, or go out and buy some of the stuff. Though I still want to be able to go to youtube and look up anime OP and Eds.. Sometimes it is useful to show people those when you are not at your own computer.. (like today at lunch! dango dango dango dango dango daikazoku~) |
| i feel like it will be nearly impossible for it to be done. no matter what people will get their illegal files, wether it be anime, music, movies, television shows, etc. all i care about is keeping crunchy roll up.... D: as a college student its SOOO hard for me to download anime, and crunchy roll has pretty much all the shows i wanna see that i havent downloaded yet!!! besides, if the anime is not subtibled in english and fansubbed by fans, why would that hurt the japanese market? its not like people are going to buy raws from japan. they'd just have to wait until subs come to america, and really no one wants to wait for that |
| I don't see how they can even think of taking down P2P. But sites like crunchyroll, youtube and youporn will probably be seeing a day of reckoning shortly. selective_yellow said: Plus I like watching anime that is new.... Same here. I don't want to have to wait for things to be licensed, that takes forever. And if I really like something, I do buy it when it's released. But I like being able to watch it first and know that I like it. |
| Funny thing is, one of my friends recently told me that the Japanese anime industry primarily lives by income in their own country, and that exports to other countries are merely extra benefit. Some higher ranked figures even refuse to believe that there exists such a thing as fansubs Please note I've not confirmed any of this information myself. It could very well just be rumors (I personally find the last thing a little hard to believe).. |
| I think the United States government has more important things to worry about then stopping illegal anime downloading. |
kinbari08Oct 23, 2007 5:57 PM
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| I wish we could get some statistics for all this Japanese anime industry losing money with fansubs. I don't know if we really do hurt them or not (I won't assume anything without stats). But eh, if I couldn't download anime I think I would give up watching. And go back to being a gamer, you know? Will probably not give up manga however. I can afford that at least. DVDs are too much for me cause shipping costs often double the price of what you would pay for a DVD locally (that and currency). The original statement sent by the Japanese government isn't completely about anime though. And no, the industry also depends on foreign licenses to survive. Although it's true the main market is local. |
| don't forget that some bittorrent tracker and other sites like youtube are making money with this, and I don't know if it affects sales or not but is not fair. As long as there is no profit with others work there is nothing wrong. |
| If this goes into effect, I feel sorry for people in countries in which it's difficult to legally obtain anime. On the other hand, if they could somehow stop piracy just for shows that are easily obtainable wherever you reside, that would be neat. Although impossible, of course. I just hope that, if the goverment does prevent fansubbing, they focus on things that are licensed or likely to be licensed -- and companies begin to take more incentive to expose fans to new shows. |
selective_yellow said: Zing.I wouldn't mind giving the Japanese money, I just refuse to pay a billion dollars for like dubs+crappy subs. -_- Plus I like watching anime that is new.... And they have their own peer-to-peer/torrent net distribution to worry about. I mean, how come the fansubbers able to get TV series raws from? |
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| It begins. |
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| I'm not so sure about the Japanese anime market, but the US market is partly ran by piracy. I think if someone effectivley decreased the amount of piracy, the anime industry's revenue wouldn't increase very much. Companies license what's popular within the fansubbing groups (makers + watchers obviously), if they just took stuff and licensed it, who knows what would be published. People also buy what they like, if they bought randomly, that wouldn't help anyone. And.. If Currently Airing shows were suddenly un-accesable for all people outside of Japan, that would suck, period. I think these industries (not just anime) should compromise with internet users, not kill them. I mean look at the Music industry, Napster (etc..) came about, and later the Music Businesses sue like crazy, and it got them no where, well, not very far. Whatever, doubt much will come of anything. |
| I dunno. I actually heard about a similar story already in the Subs club, so this isn't exactly the first wave. Still, they've got to realize that fansubs are a major draw for new fans. However, I am worried enough to start hoarding my anime off of public servers onto my external HD (kinda like people did with water when Y2K was feared). |
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| That is very interesting news. One of the only ways I see to reduce or stop some of the downloading of anime is for the Japanese companies to hire the fansubbers who charge a minior monthly fee to pay the company rolalities for streaming and/or a small charge for each epsiodes/series downloaded. The interent is or has the potentional to replace traditional TV broadcast where the consumer has the option to purchase only the channels they want from where ever they want. And if Japanese companies could cut out the middle man that way, they would earn more profits. Though of course this will not end copies making rounds though peer to peer, but may help to reduce them if there was a quick, easier, and cheap alterentive to the system currently in place, and they could still contiune to realease dubbed productions and merchendice. Much the way the US music market has gone. I will buy the serises I like, but I have and hate to wasted money buying serise that look good to find out that they were not. I have limited funds I would prefer to buy the series I know I like and will want to rewatch rather then waste my money buying blindly. Just my takes, or quick thinking, and I guess we will have to wait and see how this all plays out. |
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| wait, isn't the anime fandom based on fansubs? you can see normal movies and tv shows in the cinema or tv and when they come out on dvd you can buy them if you enjoyed watching them... on the other hand you can't watch all new anime series before they are (and if they are) released on dvds in your country and no one likes to buy something they don't know if they'll like it or not... i live in poland and i'm not really interested in the series that are released here, not to mention the crappy quality (like 7 episodes cramped into one dvd) and bad translation in which i can easily (after 2 years of studying japanese) point out the numerous mistakes. i'd love to buy animes from the US but there's the shipping price which can double the price of the dvd... and the different regions are also a problem, since i don't buy dvds to watch them on my pc... |
| Japan To Fans: "If you dont pay, we wont give you anime" Anime Fans to Japan: "Screw You, why should we pay for your products?" Seriously though, thats how some of you guys sound. Im generally as ethical as possible with fansubs, only if series is unliscensed, out of print or dub-only, [Yes people, companies DO have non dub only dvds with actual QUALITY subs now]. I'm actually interested in seeing how this goes. Granted the US response is gonna be something along the lines of "Screw you! Give us Money! Were in the middle of 3 wars right now!"... but still. |
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Megadedhed said: Japan To Fans: "If you dont pay, we wont give you anime" Anime Fans to Japan: "Screw You, why should we pay for your products?" But... We would still get anime, wouldn't we? Isn't that what we are doing now? They're not exactly releasing their unlicensed anime in the United States yet, but we still getting it via fansubs. Even if they stop releasing anime in the United States, we would still be getting it from somewhere. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. |
SamuraiTom said: Megadedhed said: Japan To Fans: "If you dont pay, we wont give you anime" Anime Fans to Japan: "Screw You, why should we pay for your products?" But... We would still get anime, wouldn't we? Isn't that what we are doing now? They're not exactly releasing their unlicensed anime in the United States yet, but we still getting it via fansubs. Even if they stop releasing anime in the United States, we would still be getting it from somewhere. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. well its not that they are stopping release, its that they are stopping the ILLEGAL release of a series... because licensed or not, fansubs are still property under international copyright. |
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| They are protected under international copyright, but the japanese seem to want to bypass due process here. The copyright holder is well within their rights to apply to have material removed or file a law suit, but for some reason they seem to think they are a special little snoflake and they shouldn't have to do the same as everone else as it costs money. I can see the point if a Japanese audience is watching material on sites that may affect their profits, as if it is not available for distro outside Japan no profit can be made. The simple solution to that would be to ban Japanese traffic to these sites. |
_edge_Oct 23, 2007 5:42 PM
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edge_666 said: They are protected under international copyright, but the japanese seem to want to bypass due process here. The copyright holder is well within their rights to apply to have material removed or file a law suit, but for some reason they seem to think they are a special little snoflake and they shouldn't have to do the same as everone else as it costs money. wow.. someone insulting japan on an anime site, this is a first in history... XD but seriously, I dunno, maybe its different over there than it is over here, or they think that if they start arresting us citizens it could turn into an international amnesty issue, which I doubt they want |
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| as much as i want to selective_yellow said: say , we in Canada rule , the thing is this kind of thing ...applies to use since we're being R1 as well ....yeah..unfortunately .pah, they can ask the American government all they want. I live in Canada not the USA :D T_T I wouldn't mind giving the Japanese money, I just refuse to pay a billion dollars for like dubs+crappy subs. -_- Plus I like watching anime that is new.... oh well , we'll see how things will turn out :S |
 (made by MistaCloudStrife ^^) |
Megadedhed said: SamuraiTom said: Megadedhed said: Japan To Fans: "If you dont pay, we wont give you anime" Anime Fans to Japan: "Screw You, why should we pay for your products?" But... We would still get anime, wouldn't we? Isn't that what we are doing now? They're not exactly releasing their unlicensed anime in the United States yet, but we still getting it via fansubs. Even if they stop releasing anime in the United States, we would still be getting it from somewhere. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. well its not that they are stopping release, its that they are stopping the ILLEGAL release of a series... because licensed or not, fansubs are still property under international copyright. I already know that the Japanese want to stop illegal releases but from your post, "Japan To Fans: 'If you dont pay, we wont give you anime'" it made it sound as if Japan would stop releases of any anime to the United States. Most people are not paying for the anime and they are still getting it. If there be raws, then there be subbers. |
| Piracy was long before the internet came along and will continue far into the future (yes I consider fansubs a type of piracy yet hmm...how else am I going to actually watch the anime that never get translated here in the Us?). The people who are generally interested in fansubs will find new ways to make them and put them out. Also, I'd like to see them try to find everybody that downloads anime (like they were trying to find everybody who downloaded music); for some reason, I highly doubt it will be possible. For those reasons, I'm not really worried about the fansubbing community. A lot will stop fansubbing, but the piracy of the videos won't stop. |
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| pfff, like its gonna happen *tisk tisk* Nobody has been able to stop piracy in the last 10 years. Do they expect that subbing, downloading, and watching online will just POOF! disapear? - __- its imposible Besides! DVD's are so expensive =__= i do buy manga but the DVD's are out of my reach, my parents dont give me that much allowance XD |
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SamuraiTom said: Megadedhed said: SamuraiTom said: Megadedhed said: Japan To Fans: "If you dont pay, we wont give you anime" Anime Fans to Japan: "Screw You, why should we pay for your products?" But... We would still get anime, wouldn't we? Isn't that what we are doing now? They're not exactly releasing their unlicensed anime in the United States yet, but we still getting it via fansubs. Even if they stop releasing anime in the United States, we would still be getting it from somewhere. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. well its not that they are stopping release, its that they are stopping the ILLEGAL release of a series... because licensed or not, fansubs are still property under international copyright. I already know that the Japanese want to stop illegal releases but from your post, "Japan To Fans: 'If you dont pay, we wont give you anime'" it made it sound as if Japan would stop releases of any anime to the United States. Most people are not paying for the anime and they are still getting it. If there be raws, then there be subbers. oh my fault. i meant that as a "those who pay get it, those who don't pay do not" menaing legal liscensed releases, and a bigger crackdown on piracy |
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JelliOs said: For those reasons, I'm not really worried about the fansubbing community. A lot will stop fansubbing, but the piracy of the videos won't stop. I agree. I think that (if this even goes anywhere) the most that they'll be able to do is stop the websites that are streaming videos, and they might be able to stop some of the fansubbers, but take the last episode of Death Note, for example--they found a way to get that out, even after the "cease and desist" order. So yeah, fansubbing will go on. |
Crystal said: I wish we could get some statistics for all this Japanese anime industry losing money with fansubs. I don't know if we really do hurt them or not (I won't assume anything without stats). You will never see those numbers for a couple of reasons. First of all, the non-Japanese side of the industry is so tight-lipped with their sales numbers that it is almost impossible to figure out how specific titles are actually selling. Now the actual Japanese DVD sales numbers are released regularly and are pretty clear, but it is literally impossible to say "If there had not been illegal releases, we would have sold X copies." Any company that does that is purely speculating. A lot of them assume that every downloaded copy represents a lost sale, when we all know this isn't the case. The economics of a black market are very nontraditional, especially when you have two competing supply curves -- one at the market price and one at zero. Crystal said: And no, the industry also depends on foreign licenses to survive. Ironically, some titles depend on the hype generated by fansubs/illegal downloads to drive up the licensing cost during negotiation. Naruto was able to charge a fortune for their license because of the overwhelming popularity that had been generated beforehand. If not for that, you would have had a situation similar to the old days when American and other companies had to base their bids on Japanese publicity and hype, which means that Detective Conan would have demanded a higher premium than anything. At the Gonzo panel at Anime Expo two years ago, they were actively hyping their new show Glass Fleet. It was, without a doubt, their big flagship title for the future, at least according to them. It was finally released on DVD in the USA last week, and I would be surprised if it is able to sell a couple of hundred copies nationwide. They might break even, although I doubt it. It was never fansubbed to completion, and I suspect, in this case, it could have only helped the title. It wasn't a good show by any means, yet I don't see how the extra publicity in this case would have hurt. But, in the end, there's no way of really knowing. It's all speculation, on my part as well as theirs. Therein lies the problem. |
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| How can it hurt sales when these shows don't come to North America.. |
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Chicken008 said: actually , i was surprised to see the number of japanese IP in the leech list on Utorrent when downloading Raws...or even subs at times . not that it's greatly significant , but it's still surprising .How can it hurt sales when these shows don't come to North America.. |
(made by MistaCloudStrife ^^) |
| I think if they focused their time and effort in making good products, it would help there sales more than fighting a battle against their own fans. |
| jp ips on raws isn't real surprising here's the thing. hollywood has lots of lobbyists and campaign contributions. anime not so much. so I'm not worried. |
Chicken008 said: How can it hurt sales when these shows don't come to North America.. I'm assuming its in the same vein as uploading American television shows to YouTube, or torrenting theatrical films; Japanese people finding "RAWs" online instead of buying the DVDs. |
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| Wow. First Odex (Singapore) and now the US. o.o We should hide!! >< But I think the P2P programs should receive the blame rather than websites like YouTube. :/ |
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ender650 said: I think if they focused their time and effort in making good products, it would help there sales more than fighting a battle against their own fans. They do. And plenty of "Fans" are still content to simply leech rather than support. |
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| how do the japanese fans pay for the anime they watch on TV? i don't see what's wrong with letting international fans watch and understand anime.. it opened a door to Japanese culture and in the end Japan get a lot more money because the crazy fans start being fans of japan and everything about it - they buy a lot of expensive merchandise and manga, learn japanese and travel to japan and add to the country's economy... sometimes even work there (legally, i mean)... trust me that in the end watching "free" anime has cost me a lot more than if i just bought dvds!! american corporations trying to ride on the anime hype and prosecute fans is a lot more irritating, although i could see why... they want money and don't get anything from the extra value where the real money is. |
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