Naruto Chapter 638 Discussion

Fiji said:
That's why Madara is still calm even at this point. I really wonder what is his trump card? We might get something hax like using full potential of his EMS/Rinnegan.

Mazaev said:
Naruto Good Path: Naruto
Naruto Bad Path: Obito

Only way Obito will be defeated will be some sort of sealing or sacrifice from Naruto, calling it now they both will die in the series. If Sasuke is to become truly good too, it's the only way it can happen seeing Naruto die.

Sujay95 said:
OMG! Okay, this one changes everything!
Obito has now lost his sense of identity and is completely possessed by the Ten-Tails! That's BAD news. Senju brothers got owned in a flash! But they aren't out of the story yet!
And Madara has a trump card. I don't mind this trump card of his as long as Obito dies (unless there's more character development for him) or it gives Madara the control of the Juubi itself and not Obito as Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

But guys, you are forgetting the trump card that the Allied Shinobi Force now has on their side. Yes. You know who!!
HIM. Orochimaru! I'm sure he has answers and some jutsu. There hasn't been much of a backstory for him. He sure is a mysterious character from beginning. He's bathed in mysterious for god's sake. I believe he has a significant role to play. Again. There's now more scope for his character development. ;)


Obito has the Rinnegan. And the Sharingan. Add the Uchiha blood to that. A potential Rikudou Sennin.
Didn't take much to seal the Juubi within himself since he already had experience sealing the other 7 Tailed-Beasts in the Gedou Mazou statue and become the Jinchuuriki. Madara also taught him several techniques before he died. So it is quite legit.
Is that an explanation enough for you? :)


+1. Agreed.

headless_nick said:



great! ... rinnegan + uchiha blood ??? too bad madara all those years ago (who btw awakend rinnegan) could not become jinchuriki because he had to wait for obito to fall in love...

and my point is not even who gets to be jinchuriki ...

look what am saying is just justify obito being most powerful ... if you try to come up with explanation regarding eye implantation, senju dna, there could be many explanations and plotholes...these are not the answers that satisfies long term fans, there should be more heart in it...i mean the rinnegan wasnt even obito's to begin with. he didnt AWAKENED rinnegan but he became stronger than madara , hashirama , who back then tried their best to find answers and earned their abilities...am sorry but the narutoverse i knew doesn't work that way...even zabuza and haku had better motivation to become strongest

so my point is are you happy from these explanations that obito is the strongest in narutoverse now?

Shape430 said:
Well I do like this new mindless/crazy Obito much more then the Emo/Pedobear Obito we had before

GrapeKiller said:
I thought that Jinchuuriki needed to be babies...didn't Naruto have to be one? Or does this only apply to the Shiki Fuin? Wait...then what seal did they use for when they sealed the Kyuubi into Kushina?

ARGH TOO MANY DAMN PLOTHOLES KISHI!

*bangs head against wall*

How did Obito become a Jinchuuriki anyway? I didn't see any Fuuinjutsu seals or arrays when he became the Juubi's Jinchuuriki...

GrapeKiller said:
I thought that Jinchuuriki needed to be babies...didn't Naruto have to be one? Or does this only apply to the Shiki Fuin? Wait...then what seal did they use for when they sealed the Kyuubi into Kushina?

ARGH TOO MANY DAMN PLOTHOLES KISHI!

*bangs head against wall*

How did Obito become a Jinchuuriki anyway? I didn't see any Fuuinjutsu seals or arrays when he became the Juubi's Jinchuuriki...

GrapeKiller said:
I thought that Jinchuuriki needed to be babies...didn't Naruto have to be one? Or does this only apply to the Shiki Fuin? Wait...then what seal did they use for when they sealed the Kyuubi into Kushina?

ARGH TOO MANY DAMN PLOTHOLES KISHI!

*bangs head against wall*

How did Obito become a Jinchuuriki anyway? I didn't see any Fuuinjutsu seals or arrays when he became the Juubi's Jinchuuriki...

Aloxamax said:


Okay... let's do a recap!

The first thing you need to understand is the fact that Obito has a reason to become the strongest. I would say that the future of the Elemental Nations will depends on 3 characters: Naruto, Obito and Sasuke. Naruto is the one who thinks peace through understanding can be achieved. Sasuke is the one who thinks that peace can only be achieved through force. Obito is the one who doesn't think peace can be achieve in either way, so he's willing to abandon this world.

Without delving too much into a Philosophical debate, what Kishi is trying to show is that none of them is by default 'right', they need to prove themselves in this battle, the one with the strongest will shall prevail (and all that...), all three have then a reason to become stronger.

Then there's the incredible gap between a Jinchuuriki that does not use the power of the Beast inside of him and one who does. Simply compare Naruto at his strongest without Kurama, that would be Sage Mode. That can't compare to full Bijuu Mode can it? And Obito is the jinchuuriki of the JUUBI, so the gap would be way bigger.

Rikudou Sennin, thanks to his Rinnegan was able to use In'youton Jutsu, that's like the ultimate Hack-type of jutsu that allowed him to basically do everything, play with reality as he wished. Madara said that he would teach that to Obito (chapter 606) so there's that. Though none of them are able to use at the same scale as Rikudou (well, Obito apparently can now)

We've seen from previous fights that Obito was able to simultaneously control 6 Bijuus to fight against Bee, Naruto, Kakashi and Gai, and control the Gedou Mazou itself with relative ease

He was able to decimate dozens of Kiri ANBU as a teen (chapter 605)

Strong enough to go toe to toe with Minato the night of the Kyuubi incident

Was able to resist Madara's will (that's like half of his body going against him)

Basically, he was very strong already before becoming the Jinchuuriki, you say that Obito doesn't deserve to be the strongest, because he hasn't earned it or something, but you are totally wrong... what do you think he's been doing for the past 20 years? He's been planning and working his ass off to reach this particular point! The moment where he would finally have the power of the Juubi, that nothing to laugh at you know! The Juubi was basically praised as a God! I was actually waiting for this moment where Hashirama and Madara would finally be truly outclassed!



Where do people get the idea that Obito is a mindless/crazy beast? I mean, he might not remember who he is, but he still remembers who his ennemies are, that's not a reason to point a finger at him and scream ''Monster!''

fishergirl16 said:
I'm so mad that Hashirama is already over-powered. >__< We haven't seen too much badassery from him!

headless_nick said:
well , see... there are some key points when you develop characterization on such a big scale for such a good manga.

a. you need your goal for the character
b. you need good enough motivation to thrive for your goal
c. your course of action

now from all the points you have gathered , if we see the development over 1st 500-600 chapters of naruto which led to obito's pre-unmasking and pre- 4th war course of action...we find he led the attack on konoha. which is debated as obito was only 13 yrs old and he had only one year time to gain his arm,master sharingan, rinnegan,kamui,control 9 tails , go toe to toe with 4th etc....again, which is pretty much the same thing he does now.

so now if we look at the post unmasking character development of obito there are 4-5 chapters of flashback where we learn his current motivation behind his current goal.(which by the way is not satisfactory enough to get this immense amount of power ) and in those 5 chapters we again see his course of actions as stated by you ...i mean the points of kiri anbu, going against madara's will etc...so controlling 6 bijuu should be easy enough as he controlled 9 tails 17 years ago.

so obito is now 30 years old , naruto had 638 chapters , we got 5 chapters of character development for our ulimate villain , and his course of action to become strongest is justified as he defeated 4th 17 years ago ...even lets say which does not sound fishy for an one armed teen ager as he was motivated by the death of his crush...5 out of 638 ...is it good amount to set up our most powerful villain?lets say it is.

that can only mean those 5 chapters of flashback after his unmasking was so powerfull that it justifies all of his actions and makes him as a succesfull character who can be even stronger than hashirama who by the way saw his brothers and family die in such an age where they even feared to tell their full name...we all know fans reaction to those 5 chapters as obito unfolded his big reason behind 4th ninja war.
...so when hashirama suddenly in ONLY ONE PANEL , says " hands down am not as strong as this jinchuriki " it kind of blows all these buildups of 600+ chapters... its like being a jinchuriki explains evereything...i mean if tobi was that much stronger why he didnt became a jinchuriki of 9 tail back then?whats the point in showing 1st hokage is the strongest over this much amount of chapters if he surrenders in only one panel.

i am glad we had this conversation ... you can explain the course of action and motivation of obito by saying he is an extreme idealistic "uchiha naruto" gone bad way , thats one way to answer it. (which in a way also covers kishis failure on saske character development as kishi officially stated recently that uchihas are emotionaly...what to say ...stupid?..)and i get your points from your answer. but still, for me the characterization does not add upto the expectations as seen in previous back stories of various characters of naruto.lets hope kishi pulls this one somehow but also its early to predict the outcome on how to top jubito this time.

Saduj said:


Dude, it's all been explained, remember a few chapter ago where Obito said the war is not about Rin and Kakashi? It's not Kishi fault that you can't read the the text bubbles.

ArtemisX said:
Don't insult my intelligence ok. I know perfectly well what has been going on with obtio and caused his growth and change to the character he is today. But that still doesn't explain how zetsu controlled him and why or what is zetsu and if you haven't noticed he is no were to be found on the battlefield any more, he just up and dissapears. People are almost like forgetting that this character still exists, where the hell is he??

Or maybe he could be part of obito, who knows either way plays a key role in how obito became what he is today, i am just saying their is still a slight possibility that the whole truth has not been explained yet. Knowing zetsu was involved, their might be something more sinister at work behind rin's death, or something that spurred into motion against his will. I am still just throwing speculation their, but i am not ready to accept the full truth until everything is resolved.

Ask this one question? Black Zetsu, who is he exactly? That is something that no one can answer yet.

Aloxamax said:


I'm not about to quote everything again because that would make it way too long.

First, about Obito's age, he was atleast 13 before he supposedly died by being crushed by a boulder. There was the whole training to use his new limbs better, the fusion with Spiral Zetsu, the Kiri episode, the reunion with Nagato...he did quite a lot of things before attacking Konoha. I would say that he was atleast 20 by then (I mean, he was pretty much as tall as Minato, and his voice is pretty damn deep), so he had years to master anything he needed.

Second, half of his body is made with Hashirama's cells, even if it isn't his original body it should still be stronger than a normal one.

I need to say that you've got it all wrong regarding Obito's motivation. All of this planning and fighting was not done because of Rin, she was only the catalyst that made Obito see the 'reality' of the world. If it was only because of Rin, then Obito could simply launch the Genjutsu on himself and be happy in his dreamland, yet he wants to drag everybody in with him. When Madara asked him why Kakashi was still alive after his Kiri episode, Obito said it didn't matter if he died, because Kakashi would be alive in the world that they would create, then when the two fought at the war, Obito tried to convince Kakashi to join him.

This all means that he's not some emo bastard who's on denial and can't accept the fact that Rin is dead, Obito firmly believes that everybody would really be better off living in a dream, in the Infinite Tsukuyomi (and it might be true, who knows?).

As for Hashirama admitting Obito is stronger than him...so what? Didn't you expect it? This is what was supposed to happen, the Juubi is the current strongest being in the planet, if Obito gets that power then it's pretty obvious that he would be stronger. He didn't become the Jinchuuriki of the Kyuubi because the Kyuubi isn't strong enough to give him the power to cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

You say that this ruins the build-up, but what you don't understand is that it still is building up! Hashirama is not the main character of this Manga, you know? It's Naruto. It's not up to Hashirama to defeat Obito, it's up to Naruto. Currently the strongest on the Shinobi Alliance side is Hashirama, by giving them an ennemy stronger than him, THAT will the catalyst Kishi needs continue this fight!

Ever since the Hokage arrived, the battle had pretty much stopped, the Juubi was restrained and couldn't do much, Madara was just sitting there, Obito was in another dimension, the Hokage had to keep the barrier up, team 7, 8 and 10 weren't doing much damage anyway...you see? Both sides were pretty much frozen, none gaining over the other now Obito's side has gained the advantage, which will force the Shinobi alliance to fing a way to counterattack.

We knew (or atleast most of us did) that with the revival of the Juubi, the level of the battle would have to reach Rikudou Sennin level at some point, this is simply a way of saying ''it's happening now'' by having Hashirama admit that it's now beyond him.

TheFallenGuard said:
Obito being more powerful than the first hokage is absolutely crazy

headless_nick said:


it should not be crazy but seems crazy beacuse its not established in a proper way .ONLY ONE SUDDEN PANEL does not just convey the messege.

headless_nick said:



from my previous text , my goal was to hint on the quality to set up a proper final villain in a long running series, when and how to show that he has become the ultimate villain on manga, proper way and timing to SHOW that one has become strongest , how the backstory should have set and how the plot hole has been created several times ....
and overall how it rates as a well build manga literature now as the recent way of unfolding of events have been shown in a specific way...and does it do justice to naruto manga....being a fan also demands criticizing the work otherwise its just eating everything thats thrown without thinking.sometimes it may be necessary to judge manhgaka's faulty way of showing facts otherwise one might choose to not see the faults.

thanks for your explanation.

MaxY- said:
A shitty chapter like the last 100 or so lol.

Han-yuu said:
A decent chapter in a while.

Peoples are so much distracted about the story that they can't get a simple point about Obito's change. It's not because of Rin. His mind switch just flipped that there is no way to live in this world without war and conflict. So let's create an illusion world where everyone is happy. That's all. Didn't you ever see someone changing mind about something? People change minds, hearts, opinions everyday in real life and they become so obstinate with them. That's the reason we have so many hot discussions and crazy fans and anti-fans on every forum. It's not something difficult to understand. He didn't became emo because of a little girl. He simply changed his opinion about the world and he don't care anymore until he get his dream come true. An illusion world.

ArtemisX said:

But why the hell would some one dramatically change like that and come up with a decision to suddenly change the world, yeah sure he didn't like the shinobi way of life and how people die in war and all that. I understand that, but isn't he doing the same thing only on a much higher level. Creating wars, destroying villages. For some one that does not like evil, war or genocide, he literally created it. Its contradictory. Rins death is what spurred his motivation and ambition towards this goal. So yeah i don't get it, its not as simple as just something changing their ideals and wants a world free of war, no sane person would not create so much death in his wake in order to realize that dream.

So yeah i think its ridiculous and i understand how everyone has so much hate towards it, but i personally am hoping that their is another more evil intention behind it, some one manipulating him or something.

Tobi clearly was never obito in the old days, it makes no sense, they have very diff personalities.

Han-yuu said:

Even though it's about 39 weeks (more than half year) since tobi revealed as Obito but it's not even one night in the manga timeline. So yeah. If Tobi is Obito then he did have the same personality. Those speeches in front of Naruto were really bad but that's all. He's still following the same plan with same powers.

Someone pulling strings from behind won't make any sense at this point and if suddenly Tobi become someone else then it would be the biggest troll in the manga.

Dramatically change can happen with just a single good speech. again, i would ask, haven't you seen someone changing in real life. Because i did. Not only in real life but on the internet as well. And if we talk about fiction world then a chapter or single scene can turn you off and you won't able to enjoy it no matter how hard you try. That's my personal experience as well. A change can happen in a second if your mind and heart accept something. And what Obito seen was a death by the hands of his best friend. Then he learned the truth about what happened and why kakashi did it. So he came to a simple conclusion, which is "dream world" for everyone. Now if you check some earlier chapters again then Madara was already pulling the strings and trying to get him on the track. The people he killed or killing in this war can be revived in that dream world. So he's like playing a video game. Where he don't care how many character die because he can revive them later.

Sujay95 said:

That is the explanation I seek and try to give when people bitch about how Naruto went downhill after Pain arc. But I never really could get it through to them. You couldn't have explained any better.
Plus, you helped me understand it even better. Thanks man.

@ArtemisX - Well, Obito isn't that bad of a character as you've been believing. If he died, all this war would be pointless. The "dream world" was hi desire and if he died nothing would have made any sense. Read my previous post. :)

MaxY- said:
A shitty chapter like the last 100 or so lol.

ArtemisX said:


Ok first of all, im not bitching, im not sure if you directed that to me or everyone else. But i my self actually enjoy the story and the direction its taking, i like the characters, the unpredictable twists and everything that has gone in the war, lots of surprises.

I am not like this guy:




No i enjoy naruto, if you look closely into my comment and discussions, im actually trying to defend obito as a character, trying to perceive exactly what is happening with him, his true ideals and ambition for his ideal dream world and i don't believe that everything has been told in stone.

You also misinterpreted what i was trying to say, i did not mean the present tobi to the present obito, i meant the "old obito" compared to the present tobi. Clearly different personalities obviously. Then when we start to see tobi unmasked, he starts showing his true personality from the old days.

That is just my opinion. I think kishi is hiding something from us in regards to how obito changed and has been manipulated by madara, that brings back my discussions bout zetsu, very little was even mentioned bout zetsu accept the fact that he took over obito's body and gave him power to combat the nine tails, etc.

Also i do not think that obito has some other identity, his identity has been revealed, i acknowledge that for sure.

I just think that something else is not being told bout the present obito and the connection with zetsu and it might also have something to do with the reasoning behind obito's dramatic change or rins death, again im just speculating. I just have a hunch though that everything has not been told and usually i am right bout these things, as i was when i foretold that everything was not just bout "jealousy" in kakashi or the "power of love" as everyone put it in killing rin. Which everyone complained bout and nearly dropped the manga just by judging to quickly. Or the fact that kakashi was a genjutsu being shown by madara or zetsu. The truth finally came out as it was later told that rin was a jinchurki and a spy and had to be killed as part of a mission but this part was revealed until much later. Not many people saw that coming.

We have not seen black zetsu in a while to so that kind of arouses my suspicions unless he is a part of obito which might further elaborate his reasons for being so full of evil incarnate, like being controlled like a puppet and madara may know this all along, guess will just have to see before, what this "trump card" is. I am just really theorizing is all, not bitching or complaining.