| So quite often, you see people framing their dislike of old or "old" anime in terms of not liking "old art" or "low-quality animation." But after a discussion in this topic, I have to wonder how much of that dislike is based on external factors, and not inherent qualities of the anime themselves. The relevant exchange is quoted within the spoiler. By "external factors," I mean things like video resolution, video/stream quality, aspect ratio (which may or may not match the screens people happen to have), and subtitle styles/traits. In essence, things that are more about end-user presentation and the way we view anime, rather than anything done by the anime creators themselves. Let's examine some of the most common cutoff years that people give: 2000 -- I can understand this one, as it represents the transition from cel shading to digipaint, meaning that a typical 1998 anime will look quite different from a 2002 anime. 2003/04 -- Somewhat understandable, as there was some carryover of 90s styles and character designs into early 00s anime. 2005-2007 -- I don't really see much of an art/animation difference between these years and the ones just before, but this timeframe does coincide with the start of HDTV/720p broadcasts, as well as the rise of fansubs in .mkv format with at least softsubbed dialogue. 2007 also marked the end of 4:3 anime in the latenight TV-series realm. 2010 -- Yes, some people feel like limiting themselves to 3 years worth of anime industry output. (I don't remember people in 2007 asking for "only 2004 and above.") Again, I don't see much of a difference in actual art style / animation, but 2010 did pretty much see an end to series with SD-only TV broadcasts or DVD-only releases, as well as hardsubbed signs/karaoke/anything else in fansubs. So with all these coincidences in mind, I ask again: how common is rkeizel's standpoint? Are people more opposed to "old art/animation," or do they just want to avoid watching something that might be standard-def resolution, in 4:3, or encoded with older methods like XviD/avi, 8-bit h264, or some quantity of hardsubbing? Because there's a good solution to most of that: get an older monitor (hint: Goodwill/charity shops or Craigslist -> Free), at something like 1024x768, to use as a secondary display for watching older content. 4:3 content fills the screen, and resolutions like 480p or even slightly lower will look tolerable. |
| TL;DR ? Why can't we all just watch our Anime. |
 |
| From what i notice myself, usually any older shows that are watched are usually landmark series like NGE and such. But i see it more with how colors are in older shows, it's alot less clear(i think thats the word), so people might find it distracting. |
| Yes, I think it is. Some fans can only watch anime that "looks new". |
on 
| The character design and the color palette. You are introducing someone fresh into anime. Do you think they would prefer the quality of Evangelion 1995 TV series or the movies? Escaflowne 1996 TV series vs 2000 movie quality? Hunter x Hunter 1999 or 2011 quality? Jojo 1993 vs 2012 quality? Trigun 1998 TV series vs 2010 movie quality? I'm sure there's shit tons more example. When the new Sailor Moon airs, I'm sure there will be several people who have never touched Sailor Moon that will be watching it and not even attempt a go at the original. It's like how little kids these days only play Call of Duty and not touch anything from previous generations because they have shit graphics. Younger/new viewers started off introduced to modern quality shows and thus that it already their average viewpoint and if they see shows that don't meets those standards, they're are 'old' or 'bad' quality. |
PaulApr 9, 2013 10:10 PM
| I for the most part don't care. I mean, shit. I can deal with Shinya Hasegawa's 2003 character design (for those who might get my reference). But, if something is available in widescreen, I'll watch that over 4:3. And as for formats; any format for watching, but Vegas prefers mp4 for editing. |
 |
Paul said: Evangelion 1995 TV series or the movies? Escaflowne 1996 TV series vs 2000 movie quality? Hunter x Hunter 1999 or 2011 quality? Jojo 1993 vs 2012 quality? If they have good taste... |
|
| I disagree, in my personal opinion i see 1998 - 2004ish to be a sort of golden era for anime. I can't really say much for romances past a 2006 sort of timing as i havent really watched any (except for Da Capo, which...well, poor example)...Anyway, for more action orientated shows, Great Teacher Onizuka, Full Metal Panic!, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Hajime no Ippo, The great 3 (though controversial) it is difficult to question the quality of such shows. Purely on an aesthetics basis shows like Ghost in the Shell can atleast bring up a fairly decent argument. In my opinion with the recent wave of 'Moe' and 'Slice of Life' anime is pretty much in decline past 2006, still giving some great shows but not too many that, to excuse my french, "$%#@ rainbows". I think the main basis for people not wanting to watch these anime's is mainly based on the poor quality than anything else, but might also be due to the difficulty in obtaining some of the older animes with rocketing prices for the more ancient dvd's. |
| I've always said to myself that I would take standard definition with 16:9 aspect ratio over say something in 4K at 4:3. I really dislike 4:3 as an aspect ratio as it looks much less visually appealing and less cinematic. Having said that, two of my favourite anime are in 4:3, so it's not a determining factor of whether I will love the show or not. |
| It honestly doesn't matter to me, anime is anime either way. People who bitch about wanting "new art" are just superficial and spoiled and need to get over themselves. It's not even like most of these people are even paying to watch the anime, they are simply watching it for free on their spare time. That being said it's not my business what people decide or don't decide to watch, I can however criticize their shitty taste. |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| People are always shallow and care about superficial looks, not only in anime. I've had people drop 'Firefly' because the costumes looked too cheap. I usually don't give a fuck who robs himself of experiencing great shows for reasons like that, as long as the people are honest about what they are doing. Pretending that there's a objective-ish reason for only wanting 2010+ art will get me in your face with instant speed. The same for putting down random years without being able to name a single reason why you draw the line here. (like OP tried to do and the first two even make some sense) As long as you know what you're doing it's your cup of tea, but many people have never even watched 'old' stuff or have no idea what 'old' means in the first place or that a good movie from the 80's has better animation than most TV Series even nowadays. Either they are too uninterested and lazy to be leaving their comfort zone or they just pick a random 20xx year to dismiss everything before that (except for childhood favorite X & Y which are objectively better than all series from that time period) just because everyone else does it. Ignorance is something I can't help but oppose. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| For me it's a bit of both. In my case the biggest turnoff of pre-2000 series is the color palettes that were used at the time. I'm not sure why but I'm really fussy about that type of thing. It won't stop me from watching an old series, but it is the main reason I don't go out of my way to watch them. I started watching close to all series as they air in late 09, and haven't looked back. My preference towards them has a lot to do with the poor video resolution of the other series from the 2000's. The TV rips from this time are particularly bad, but I'm not too keen on DVD raws either. I actually don't mind the aspect ratio at all. In fact I'm much more comfortable with lower quality 4:3 raws than 16:9 ones. The low quality 16:9 TV rips from around 07/early 08 really bug me. I also refuse to watch anything that has yellow subs. |
| I'm not the biggest fan of 90s or earlier art styles, from a purely aesthetic standpoint. This isn't true of all of them, but many of the art that I've seen from this time tends toward characters with incredibly sharp features (pointy chin/nose, sharply angular or huge eyes) who just look less real than the ones today. Now, I understand that I'm basically watching man cartoons, but I do prefer my characters to look a bit more real as a general rule. I get incredibly annoyed by most shojou styles for much the same reason, and moe makes me angry. That said, I've watched some of the classics that people have brought up here too - stuff like Evangelion (which is one of my absolute favorites), Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, and thought they were fantastic. The art wasn't my favorite, but it wasn't anything to discourage me from it. I guess what I'm saying is that I would prefer to watch something that's newer (or in a "modern looking" style), but if an older show gives me a really good reason to watch it, I won't turn it down. As for animation quality, I usually don't notice. I prefer dramas anyways, so if the action isn't super shiny sparkly I'm ok with that. Aspect ratio, video quality, subs, whatever. I got into anime by streaming it online on a really slow Internet because that's what I had, I'm not going to fault something because it wouldn't look pristine on an HD TV or anything. |
YorozuyaGinSan said: Sorry, I forgot things like "evidence" and "analysis" were taboo in today's ADD short-attention-span world. I'll summarize in 140 characters or less:TL;DR ? Why can't we all just watch our Anime. Don't pretend you're some kind of art snob when you really just think 576p is slumming it. And evidently, people can't "just watch 'their' anime," as shown by all the recommendation threads that say "I want something from [genre that was prevalent X years ago], but nothing older than Y years," where Y < X. Or "I'm tired of all the loli/moe/ecchi/otaku anime these days, give me something gritty/serious/mature. But don't suggest anything from the 80s/90s/early 00s when those anime were actually more common, 'cause it's too old." Kolle said: But again, being presented in a low-resolution format (protip: buy the discs or at least DL the DVD/BD-rips rather than watching LQ streams) is not the same as having "low-quality animation," though fortunately you've already discovered the solution I suggested.Lastly, I can also understand how some people not like anime because of the "low-quality animation" because when I go to a website to see anime and the quality is like 360p I can't watch it(unless I watch it on a small device that has a smaller screen so it looks better). Paul said: When the new Sailor Moon airs, I'm sure there will be several people who have never touched Sailor Moon that will be watching it and not even attempt a go at the original. You may have touched on something here; when I was first exposed to anime, it was more common to see things that were older than "present time", i.e. Sailor Moon/R/S/SS (1992-96) didn't finish its US TV run until the early 00s, Yu Yu Hakusho (1992) was ~10 years old when it premiered, DBZ (1989) was ~6 years old when it debuted, etc. The Internet of the time was barely good enough to transfer any videos, let alone high-quality versions of something that aired on TV halfway around the world 10 hours ago. Indeed, all things being equal, it would be better to introduce people to newer remakes. But those remakes are often rushed summaries, incomplete/standalone stories, or have other issues, and obviously most older classics don't have a shiny new option. Younger/new viewers started off introduced to modern quality shows and thus that it already their average viewpoint and if they see shows that don't meets those standards, they're are 'old' or 'bad' quality. Maybe the solution is to expose them, perhaps Clockwork-Orange-style, to much older material, so that semi-recent but not "new" stuff seems better by comparison.Faceless said: If the 4:3 version is cropped from widescreen, yes. But what if the show was made in 4:3, and widescreen is cropped/stretched/squeezed or otherwise damaged? But, if something is available in widescreen, I'll watch that over 4:3. Kamio-chan said: You're certainly right that it's less cinematic, but I wouldn't say all content suffers equally. For character/dialogue-driven shows like Azumanga Daioh (2002), I don't think 4:3 makes much of a difference, though that's not the case with more action-oriented series like ROD TV (2003-04).I really dislike 4:3 as an aspect ratio as it looks much less visually appealing and less cinematic. Having said that, two of my favourite anime are in 4:3, so it's not a determining factor of whether I will love the show or not. battosai-01 said: And admittedly, it's not mine either. I just hate to see people limiting themselves based on external/arbitrary factors, rather than the actual merits of the anime. If they took a serious look, would even the "must have post-2010 art" crowd think that the animation/detail levels/backgrounds of shows like Kill Me Baby, Yuru Yuri, and Acchi Kocchi definitively beat out stuff like Macross Frontier, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Gundam 00?That being said it's not my business what people decide or don't decide to watch, I can however criticize their shitty taste. llamaben said: And as I mentioned above, the switch from cel shading to digipaint in 2000 did result in actual, objective differences in color schemes. So I wouldn't call it unreasonable to be a little fussy over that, though I'm glad to see you're willing to overcome it.For me it's a bit of both. In my case the biggest turnoff of pre-2000 series is the color palettes that were used at the time. I'm not sure why but I'm really fussy about that type of thing. It won't stop me from watching an old series, but it is the main reason I don't go out of my way to watch them. I started watching close to all series as they air in late 09, and haven't looked back. My preference towards them has a lot to do with the poor video resolution of the other series from the 2000's. The TV rips from this time are particularly bad, but I'm not too keen on DVD raws either. I wouldn't call the resolutions "poor" so much as I'd call them "mismatched with the screens people happen to have." I don't think well-encoded DVD raws from that era are so bad (check out the new release of 2004's Yakitate!! Japan, for instance), but more and more of the major series from back then are getting Blu-Ray releases.I actually don't mind the aspect ratio at all. In fact I'm much more comfortable with lower quality 4:3 raws than 16:9 ones. The low quality 16:9 TV rips from around 07/early 08 really bug me. I don't know how many pre-2007 16:9 TV-rips you've seen, but there are actually objective reasons for that -- most 4:3 TV-rips from 2002-07 were 640x480, which gives a higher pixel count than 640x360 (common for 16:9 TV anime from 2001-05) or 704x400 (common from 2006-08). Additionally, before the Spring 2008 season when TV transport streams became available, fansubbers used pre-encoded raws from the Japanese P2P scene. Those raws were encoded worse to begin with, and often fansubbers would put them through a another lossy re-encode to add hardsubbed karaoke/signs/everything. I also refuse to watch anything that has yellow subs. This could easily be a separate topic (one I've been planning to post for a while), but what exactly is wrong with the color yellow, relative to other colors? But this reinforces my opening point about people judging the inherent qualities of anime vs. external presentation factors: the anime themselves don't "have" yellow subs, the releases you happen to acquire happen to use them. And there's virtually always a way to change subtitle styles in downloaded rips, unless they're hardcoded. Your list doesn't have fansub group info, but... If you saw the most commonly-available fansub version of Hikaru no Go (which looks like this,) then clearly yellow subs didn't prevent you from completing the series and rating it 8. |
| again it comes down to personal preference and MAL users just looking for something they can troll uppon... sure i'm more likely to start a show from 2000 and up then a 80's/90's anime but then again i learned you realy shouldn't judge a book (or in this case anime) by it's cover (and in this case art) |
| The only "aversion" that I have towards old anime is those two lateral black bars in the screen. Besides that, I like the art/animation in old animes. I can't really compare old x new since they're so different, but absolutely nothing bothers me when I watch old animes but the damn 4:3 aspect ratio. |
 |
| Old anime fappers are stupid people. Just ignore them and watch whatever you want. |
I’m just excited to see my Lord and Savior, Baphomet, represented in such glorious Italian stone. I do hope his eyes gaze upon me and that my allegiance is recognized. |
| Nothing you listed bothers me. I don't mind 4:3 and I actually prefer 90's style over modern style. I honestly can't understand people who don't like watching older shows. |
| Just let the fossils talk about the mammoth. They were no better themselves, I mean, they used to think Tomatoes are poisonous. Oh wait, we're talking about anime here? Well, same thing different case. Fossils always prefer fossils. I mean, some of us will enjoy baby mammoth stone drawings, but I think most of us prefer kitten pic nowadays. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| My aversion to old anime is the same as my aversion to old movies... pacing, different narrative styles. For example, the first episode of Ashita no Joe obviously parodies an old Western, and it bores me to death in its repetition. Walk, dodge, whistle. Walk dodge, whistle. We get it -- you're a badass, now get on with it! |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
rockappeal said: Which, as I've said, has an easy solution -- get a 4:3 screen as a secondary display.* I know it sounds repetitive, but that was always the advice I got when I expressed woes over files being too high-res for my display: "get a new monitor, get a new PC."The only "aversion" that I have towards old anime is those two lateral black bars in the screen. Besides that, I like the art/animation in old anime. I can't really compare old x new since they're so different, but absolutely nothing bothers me when I watch old anime but the damn 4:3 aspect ratio. *Of course, having a 4:3 screen doesn't help when dealing with some retarded 16:9 Blu-Ray rips of 4:3 shows that actually leave pillarboxing bars in the video image. They'll look no different from a normal 4:3 video on a widescreen display, but 4:3 displays will get black bars on all four sides. etatau said: Old anime fappers what does this even mean Just ignore them and watch whatever you want. Watch what you want, just don't come crying to the forums because you've decided that only the last 12 seasons worth of content are acceptable and you're out of new titles to watch.Airstyles said: You and etatau seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm one of those old-guard "if it's too new to be on Laserdisc, it sucks" types. Understandable, but wrong. I routinely watch and enjoy modern and newly-airing series. Those who consider anything older than three and a half years to be "mammoths" are the ones in need of a reality check.Just let the fossils talk about the mammoth. |
katsucats said: My aversion to old anime is the same as my aversion to old movies... pacing, different narrative styles. For example, the first episode of Ashita no Joe obviously parodies an old Western, and it bores me to death in its repetition. Walk, dodge, whistle. Walk dodge, whistle. We get it -- you're a badass, now get on with it! Whoa, funny enough, I found the exact contrary problem wih Taro the dragon boy, watched yesterday. A character shows up all of a sudden and gives Taro a power up out of nowhere. And things like that. It could have been extended 20 minutes and worked better with its context, because many events happened so fastly and without any previous trail. Then again, I can't make overall statements because same year's Anne of Green Gables is a pretty damn masterpiece of storytelling. |
| i'm under no such impression. my assertion is a general one: nobody should feel any obligation to watch anything because of some arbitrary quality given to it by someone else. also there is a very, very distinct difference between aversion toward one thing and a preference toward its opposite, e.g. preferring the company of white people does not mean you hate black people. |
| I’m just excited to see my Lord and Savior, Baphomet, represented in such glorious Italian stone. I do hope his eyes gaze upon me and that my allegiance is recognized. |
| imo, Old animes are ugly. there are a few exceptions: City Hunter, Space Adventure Cobra and DBZ. but honestly, most of their character designs are laughably bad. and when i say old i'm referring to pre-90's anime. |
| I don't really care about that, but there are some anime adaptions that really fuck with the art, for example: Classic HunterxHunter's art is pretty good. 2011's HxH's is bullshit, childish as fuck and without it's cold and dark atmosphere. |
| I don't care about animation style, care about plot and character development, it just so happens that newer anime is more geared towards this "moe/ecchi" art style basically taking advantage of prepubescent boy's sex drive, I don't mind and perhaps even prefer newer anime when the plot is good but usually the plot is mediocre at best (maybe all the good ideas are already taken though doubt that's it, going to bet it's because with the idea that "sex sells", plot/character depth are less emphasized) I would say I prefer the newer animation style but in my experience due to the fact there are a shit ton more anime pre-2005 than post 2005 or whenever your "too old" date is, their are obviously going to be more anime w/ a better plot in the pre-2005 anime, I'm not even saying that the % of good anime is better, I'm just saying finding one w/ a good plot is much easier to do w/ older anime. |
 |
Zalis said: So quite often, you see people framing their dislike of old or "old" anime in terms of not liking "old art" or "low-quality animation." But after a discussion in this topic, I have to wonder how much of that dislike is based on external factors, and not inherent qualities of the anime themselves. The relevant exchange is quoted within the spoiler. By "external factors," I mean things like video resolution, video/stream quality, aspect ratio (which may or may not match the screens people happen to have), and subtitle styles/traits. In essence, things that are more about end-user presentation and the way we view anime, rather than anything done by the anime creators themselves. Let's examine some of the most common cutoff years that people give: 2000 -- I can understand this one, as it represents the transition from cel shading to digipaint, meaning that a typical 1998 anime will look quite different from a 2002 anime. 2003/04 -- Somewhat understandable, as there was some carryover of 90s styles and character designs into early 00s anime. 2005-2007 -- I don't really see much of an art/animation difference between these years and the ones just before, but this timeframe does coincide with the start of HDTV/720p broadcasts, as well as the rise of fansubs in .mkv format with at least softsubbed dialogue. 2007 also marked the end of 4:3 anime in the latenight TV-series realm. 2010 -- Yes, some people feel like limiting themselves to 3 years worth of anime industry output. (I don't remember people in 2007 asking for "only 2004 and above.") Again, I don't see much of a difference in actual art style / animation, but 2010 did pretty much see an end to series with SD-only TV broadcasts or DVD-only releases, as well as hardsubbed signs/karaoke/anything else in fansubs. So with all these coincidences in mind, I ask again: how common is rkeizel's standpoint? Are people more opposed to "old art/animation," or do they just want to avoid watching something that might be standard-def resolution, in 4:3, or encoded with older methods like XviD/avi, 8-bit h264, or some quantity of hardsubbing? Because there's a good solution to most of that: get an older monitor (hint: Goodwill/charity shops or Craigslist -> Free), at something like 1024x768, to use as a secondary display for watching older content. 4:3 content fills the screen, and resolutions like 480p or even slightly lower will look tolerable. I am not a animation style snob. i will watch old anime. About the only animation style I hate is where it looks more like a slide show instead of actual animation like Kanashimi no Belladonna. Slide show anime/cartoons piss me off because a cartoons/anime imply that its moving pictures. As a matter of fact the definition of animated cartoon is a film produced by photographing a series of gradually changing drawings, etc., which give the illusion of movement when the series is projected rapidly. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/animated+cartoon |
| I'll watch anything form 91-now Just not meccha, God please no meccha. I used to avoid older anime but there is really no point in it. |
  |
| I prefer the art style and animation of newer anime to, but not watching older stuff because of it is a little silly. |
 |
More topics from this board
» Barely any anime about PhilippinesAhegyao - 1 hour ago |
21 |
by Catalano
»»
4 seconds ago |
|
» Why is it so hard for Japan to make original sequels to already complete adaptations? ( 1 2 )Clarissa - Sep 25 |
62 |
by ryzxgum
»»
11 minutes ago |
|
» Things in anime that people overestimate or underestimateRobertBobert - Yesterday |
14 |
by Zarutaku
»»
17 minutes ago |
|
» The Panty Debate.BasedIndividual - 3 hours ago |
29 |
by tchitchouan
»»
33 minutes ago |
|
Sticky: » AWC 2025 Anime Watching Challenge - Sign-Up (Open Until December 10th) ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )AWC_mod - Jan 1 |
882 |
by mimshipio
»»
37 minutes ago |