Are female power fantasies better than male ones?

I don't think female power fantasies are necessarily better. They are just less saturated in anime as more anime tend to cater towards a male audience and therefore feel fresh.





This is basically the same albeit slightly reskinned. A supposedly unsympathetic 'villain' is included such that the protagonist can own them providing superficial gratification for the audience.


PS: Mentioning Kusuriya no Hitorigoto in the context of a female power fantasy feels wrong. This show constantly reminds you that women may exert power only within the framework conceded by men

@Hiyajo-san Agreed about Kusuriya no Hitorigoto. It can be labeled as many things, but "power fantasy" is certainly not one that comes to mind. I also think the OP is being very selective in which titles he's picking for comparison here.

@Briekimchi
Yeah, no shit, I select the anime I've watched.

@Hiyajo-san Agreed about Kusuriya no Hitorigoto. It can be labeled as many things, but "power fantasy" is certainly not one that comes to mind. I also think the OP is being very selective in which titles he's picking for comparison here.

@thewiru One of your highest-rated shows on your completed list is Code Geass, so I don't think it's a what you've watched issue. I'm just curious why the examples you've used in this topic are specifically male-led shows that are often criticised for their poor writing and put them up against female-led shows that are obviously the opposite. 😂

To answer your topic, I think you'll find good and bad examples of both. I don't particularly feel that either gender-lead inherently is stronger than the other in terms of quality. Of course this also is based on this looser definition of "power fantasy" that would include titles that I wouldn't personally think of being examples.

There's probably a more interesting discussion to be had about the number of male-led shows aimed at a certain age range versus the female-led counterpart. I don't know if this would extend to the quality of the shows themselves, but certainly the perceived interests of that viewership.

Rather than female power fantasies being better or worse, I think it's a matter of female power fantasies in mainstream media being far less explored in the west. Let's take this popular Letterboxd list as an example:



Here you can see far more movies that are mid tier and even shitty tier, like Jennifer's Body or Ma, yet they're now considered cult classics and even ahead of its time just because the power fantasy of a mentally ill woman just going apeshit is so rare in the west that these films are counted. In asian media, not so much. Japanese wirting in particular has always been different, and it's been long conveying a far larger spectrum on female characters that the west is barely starting to grasp, even if it's only because japanese writers are horny bastards who can thirst enough for any kind of woman as to write them into their stories. No wonder anime and vn characters can be so popular among female audiences in the west.

Anime has even been dealing with all the gender stuff in ways we as western audiences would consider "woke" since the 90s. Look at CLAMP characters like Nakuru Akizuki, or at all the otokonoko or characters who crossdress without it being the punchline of a joke.

@Briekimchi
When an anime makes a pretty boy, and comments on his big D it most certainly is a female power fantasy.
Apocrypha Diaries is written by a woman.

Fundamentally most anime fit under male or female power fantasy.

Slop movies for liberal feminists.
Also it's not rare the majority of modern movies are catered to this audience now.

@rohan121
The pretty boy in Apothecary Diaries doesn't have a D.

Ask 100 people to name a "Power Fantasy" anime and maybe just one guy would mention Code Geass.
The ones people will mention are the ones you say are "often criticised for their poor writing"... and the reason for that is that the sheer term "power fantasy" isn't exactly a compliment.

Shion Sonozaki or Beatrice story arcs (or any character arc in the When They Cry series for that matter) are far better "female Joker" origin stories than anything the west has created in the last 20 years.

@thewiru Oh I agree. The ones you mentioned are probably the ones that most people would name. I'm just saying that by the same token, very few people would mention Kusuriya no Hitorigoto as a female power fantasy. The poster I replied to gave a good reasoning for why that is the case.

Anyway, that was the issue I had. I gave my thoughts on the OP question previously. 👍

Shion Sonozaki or Beatrice story arcs (or any character arc in the When They Cry series for that matter) are far better "female Joker" origin stories than anything the west has created in the last 20 years.

@Atromentina
None of those are power fantasies.

So Redo of Healer is a female power fantasy?

both are shit, when you compare frieren with mushoku you get the same thing

I don't think female power fantasies are necessarily better. They are just less saturated in anime as more anime tend to cater towards a male audience and therefore feel fresh.





This is basically the same albeit slightly reskinned. A supposedly unsympathetic 'villain' is included such that the protagonist can own them providing superficial gratification for the audience.


PS: Mentioning Kusuriya no Hitorigoto in the context of a female power fantasy feels wrong. This show constantly reminds you that women may exert power only within the framework conceded by men

...



Very confused kitty here, please explain

Rather than female power fantasies being better or worse, I think it's a matter of female power fantasies in mainstream media being far less explored in the west. Let's take this popular Letterboxd list as an example:



Here you can see far more movies that are mid tier and even shitty tier, like Jennifer's Body or Ma, yet they're now considered cult classics and even ahead of its time just because the power fantasy of a mentally ill woman just going apeshit is so rare in the west that these films are counted. In asian media, not so much. Japanese wirting in particular has always been different, and it's been long conveying a far larger spectrum on female characters that the west is barely starting to grasp, even if it's only because japanese writers are horny bastards who can thirst enough for any kind of woman as to write them into their stories. No wonder anime and vn characters can be so popular among female audiences in the west.

Anime has even been dealing with all the gender stuff in ways we as western audiences would consider "woke" since the 90s. Look at CLAMP characters like Nakuru Akizuki, or at all the otokonoko or characters who crossdress without it being the punchline of a joke.

@DigiCat Gyyyyaaaaaahhhh, why did you remind me of my post. Rereading this feels like I'm just massively mansplaining xD

@Hiyajo-san Oh no worries mansplain away 😂😂 i am genuinely curious

@DigiCat Oh, I thought you were being sarcastic because I made a, from a woman's perspective, incredible redundant statement.

Well the story mostly takes place within the inner palace which is mostly populated by women and as long as the emperor is not present and putting special cases like Jinshi aside, the high ranking concubines and the late empress are the most influencial figures within it. Every high ranking concubine has personal servants and forms a faction with them in the power struggle to become the next empress and provide a heir to the throne. However they influence they may exert is mostly confined within the inner palace itself.

From an outside perspective the concubines are just a commodity and can be freely gifted, used to produce offspring or as bargain chips in a game of power between the emperor and high ranking government officials.

Maomao herself is the most obivous example of exerting power within a framework conceded by men as she is on the one hand an expert in the field of medicine and often sought-after for advice and on the other hand very well aware of her status as a replaceable servant girl and constantly comments on how a slight misstep may cost her life resulting in her being often forced to tip-toe around important political figures.


Apothecary Diaries puts the women into the spotlight who are very much aware of their position, the boundaries in which they are allowed to operate and how they try to make the most of it. In my opinion a prerequisite of a power fantasy, male or female, is the indepence of the main character which Apothecary Diaries does not fulfill as Maomao's position relies on others (mostly Jinshi) backing it.

@Hiyajo-san That does make a lot of sense

Definitely agree that Apothecary is not a female power fantasy

The part that confused me about your initial post was this

While yes that was definitely the case in the time period Apothecary Diaries is set (circa 1300s-1600s) and remained true up to not so long ago, the way you phrased it sounded like it is still a universal truth today

Though i would say there's also a lot of neuance hidden behind how things were apparently done back then

- Point 1.

It's definitely true that from an outsiders perspective the inner palace women did not have influence, but behind the scenes, whether their influence went beyond the inner palace or not would depend on who was ruling at the time, it is not uncommon for the emperor to be but a figurehead, while his empress, or advisors, or mother rule in his place

Take for example the previous emperor in Apothecary, i highly doubt he had any interest beyond his perversions and obsession with painting (the latter of which is linked to the former), does not make for are good ruler now does it. From what we know about the family dynamics during his rule, it was most likely the empress dowager who truly sat on the throne unbeknown to the people

- Point 2

Yes, but, the framework Maomao is working in is not exclusive to her, or just to women for that matter, anyone of low status was considerd replaceable, was walking on eggshells in fear of a misstep, and again, while on paper it was a framework conceded by men, in reality that was not always the case

Power fantasy is such an ubiquitous, but intelligeble and unscientific term that effectively just becomes a buzzword. I mean it is often used hypocritically.
Series that are effectively feel more like power fantasies than the famous examples will not get called that (or it wont be a dominant talking point) because they're supposedly good or have been understood as such like konosuba or bunny girl senpai but all these "OP isekai" which konosuba is as well, will be stamped as that.

it's not a serious term (at least how i seen it used) and just another one of thousand ways to call something bad or trash or of lower-caste and i'm tired of this "there can be goood power fantasies tho" when they get treated the same by the discourse, are structurally similar from a story-telling standpiont, the difference between each of them is the type of audience they attract and how popular they are.
This is also the reason why female power fantasy are underresearched and can't really be identified as such because there's no discourse about them, structurally different

how is SAO a male power fantasy, which is understandable to think, kirito is a popular character to swap experiences with, but is popular with women (presumably because of asuna or other female character).
SAO is the case where people just call it that, but it only makes sense if you're dumb and don't think( which i think is where these lazy terms come from) it's even worse becuase tards see it as a genseis of this. there is isekai before and after SAO, Male power fantasy before SAO wasn't a thing, again if you're investigate it's fucking retarded.

under these standards, many anime would fit under male or female power fantasy

@Flick_on

Proof that SAO fanboys are easily triggered even if the discussion isn't really about their anime. Who knew?

@JoeChip im not a SAO fanboy. thewiru brought it up as an example and I expanded on that