| Can anyone please explain to me why so many people constantly complain about the lack of strong and well-developed female characters? I see such heroines all the time in various anime and manga, but people constantly write "I love this heroine, she is so strong and smart, it is rare in anime." Recently, I even saw people praising a modern sports shoujo manga because it is supposedly a rare piece that focuses on the ambitions and desires of women. I originally thought it was about these characters not being male-dependent, but good all-female franchises have never been rare either. |
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| compared to boys main characters, I feel that there are fewer chicks but it's not the end of the world |
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| Bias confirmation, all those videos or people complaining about it need someone to agree with them anime as in general is very male centric but even if women watch it they tend to keep it to themselves and most of the times many people especially women will come and say oh there are no mangas or anime made by women or catering towards women and deem anime is male power fantasy which is just nit picking or fixing the narrative to suit it's own agenda and if there are anime for women words will come ohhh they are drawn by men and is too sexualised. So it's just like that as on twitter most of the sjw will scream anime is not for women but infact anime was always gender neutral, my sisters watch shounen shows and seinen too, doesn't matter on what demographic it is catered but if you love something you will enjoy it, else they you nit pick and complain why it's bad but in fact it's just you not liking it. Noralities is this youtuber with such behaviour. This is white people thing as if they will hate something they will tell YOU why it's bad and you also shouldn't watch it. But it's just them not enjoying stuff. |
| 2023 might be the year where I will be happy. This year is not happy year. |
| I think it has to do with many harems and isekais coming out recently where the females are portrayed as either sluts or lovestruck to the point that they would do anything to get the attention of the weak looking pussy MC. As a male viewer I might enjoy watching these shows but a female viewer definitely finds too many faults in it. |
If you enjoyed the time you wasted, then its not a waste of time.  |
FZREMAKE said: I think it has to do with many harems and isekais coming out recently where the females are portrayed as either sluts or lovestruck to the point that they would do anything to get the attention of the weak looking pussy MC. As a male viewer I might enjoy watching these shows but a female viewer definitely finds too many faults in it. I know it’s trendy to think that a girl in love with a male character cannot be considered strong and well developed, but were heroines like Asuka, Shana, Rin or Saber poorly written and developed? |
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| Are you kidding me, or have I been watching too many female lead shows that this thread title seems a little awkward to me? |
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| @exonerate Well, shoujo is understandably overcrowded with overly sexualized and unrealistically represented men, but I've never seen anyone complain about it that much. For some reason, people think that when a woman fantasizes about the ideal man, she just wants to find a good and caring man, but when a man fantasizes about the ideal woman, then he is simply engaged in sexist male fantasies. |
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inamegane said: Are you kidding me, or have I been watching too many female lead shows that this thread title seems a little awkward to me? I just saw yesterday that Kakegurui is a popular manga among feminists because it is "a rare depiction of strong and smart ambitious women." |
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| Well, if one only watches is harem/isekai thing i can understand why one would think so, but surely harem and isekai aren't the only things out there. Also, i find it surprising that this thread came from someone who have over 1000 anime on completed list. RobertBobert said: Strong? Smart? All i saw on Kakegurui was the girls got horny over traps set in the gambling games.inamegane said: Are you kidding me, or have I been watching too many female lead shows that this thread title seems a little awkward to me? I just saw yesterday that Kakegurui is a popular manga among feminists because it is "a rare depiction of strong and smart ambitious women." |
  I play BanG Dream! Girls Band Party Garupa EN ID: 10759829 Garupa JP ID: 36753163 |
| There are lots of stronk animu girls everywhere, even in harem anime. For example during most of Rosario to Vampire, Tsukune can't even defeat a fly so it's up to Moka and the other heroines to kick the villain's ass. Btw while it's true that are a lot more strong Male MCs than female ones, if we're talking about characters in general there's actually a lot more strong women in anime than men, just think of all the countless OP magical girls that exist, or all the broken af women in the Nasuverse for example... Aoko, Arcueid, Saber etc People say stuff like that after watching shows like SAO where the heroines have to be saved by Kirito so many times, or Naruto where the likes of Hinata, Kurenai or Tenten were pretty much useless |
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Mention said: Well, if one only watches is harem/isekai thing i can understand why one would think so, but surely harem and isekai aren't the only things out there. Also, i find it surprising that this thread came from someone who have over 1000 anime on completed list. RobertBobert said: Strong? Smart? All i saw on Kakegurui was the girls got horny over traps set in the gambling games.I just saw yesterday that Kakegurui is a popular manga among feminists because it is "a rare depiction of strong and smart ambitious women." Well, as it turns out, this franchise is extremely popular with Twitter and Tumblr audiences who regard this manga as something of an ode to radical feminism. As for your question, although I consider this thesis to be obvious nonsense, I still hear it too often on various resources. For example, one of the yuri bloggers literally constantly calls genius any manga that says that "women are people too." |
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| Most mainstream animes which are mostly shounen have bad female characters and they feel more like plot devices that are troupy, or are there for fanservice but there are numerous good and well developed female characters outside of those animes |
| I'm going to start basing the strength of the character by if they're able to cut down a tree. Four of the girls in my favorites list can punch down a tree. A fifth one can cut them down with her vectors. A Sixth one has a stand of which can act as a lumberjack. And a possible seventh option is a mech pilot. Maybe you should start looking for girls than can cut down a tree. |
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| You are forgetting someone «Rem» |
| Haven't found a good anime dialogue to copy yet!! |
| They aren't watching the right anime, there are loads of strong female characters, you just have to find the right anime to watch and not rely on popular anime. |
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RobertBobert said: I just saw yesterday that Kakegurui is a popular manga among feminists because it is "a rare depiction of strong and smart ambitious women." "Rare"? Well... I wonder what else had those feminists watched. Btw I discovered Corpse Party has some anime adaptions thanks to your profile. Thank you for that ;) |
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| Man let me tell you something anime is the best medium if you are looking for strong women its fucking everywhere. Yes i agree on one of the above user even the shows with strong male mcs there are plenty of strong females too even if most of the time male mc is stronger which is logical duh now add shows with strong female mcs on top of that. For one strong male character i think i can name 5 strong female character now who will win against whom? its just matter of who face who and compatibility but such thing is pointless And even some of new shounen also showed plenty strong characters such as Black Clover Jujutsu Kaisen Chainsaw Man even Bleach has strong characters back in day and thats not counting Light novels or Manga or Visual novels such as Umineko ............ boi Also fun fact strongest known jp isekai mc characters is a female and strongest isekai villain is a female too and strongest Deity figure is a female too from the know ones first two belong in A wild last boss appeared and last one is Worlds at peace isekai. |
AnimeFA78NSep 4, 2021 9:44 AM
Nyarly-kyun said: There are lots of stronk animu girls everywhere, even in harem anime. For example during most of Rosario to Vampire, Tsukune can't even defeat a fly so it's up to Moka and the other heroines to kick the villain's ass. I didnt read the manga but i think tsukune grown stronger by a lot via end of series https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tsukune_Aono#True_Ancestor_Vampire |
| I think all it takes is one quick peek at shoujo and to an extent josei romance to know that finding a strong FL really isn't that common. And it's not like a "well the ratio between strong male v female is probably something like 55:45" type of thing. I'd wager it'd be something like 10-20% of FL's that aren't just there to prop up the ML's lmao but ofc that's only 1 specific genre. Overall I wouldn't say strong FL's are the rarest species on earth per se, but the ratio between finding strong FL's vs. finding strong ML's heavily favours the latter lol |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| Nah damn. Your investigation was just too useless to found any better girls. |
_aLiez_LINSep 4, 2021 1:00 PM
| "When they're alive, you can enjoy watching them struggle. When they're dead, you can enjoy tearing out their guts. Tales are things you get to enjoy twice." |
| It's the narrative woke twittards love to follow, they won't even bother to check out if that's a fact, they will only focus on shows that don't follow said agenda and cry about it as loud as possible, nothing new. |
| I watch almost exclusively anime with female lead and it's not even a choice I made. Overall, I just find more interesting female characters than male characters in anime. I'm always confused when people say strong or interesting female character is rare in anime. I think they have a very strict definition of good/strong female characters. People seem to think loving someone makes you weaker, but on the contrary I think loving someone is making you stronger. Unless of crouse there's no depth in their relationship, but I think it's the case for only a minority of anime which are most of the time fan-service oriented. |
RobertBobert said: Recently, I even saw people praising a modern sports shoujo manga because it is supposedly a rare piece that focuses on the ambitions and desires of women. I originally thought it was about these characters not being male-dependent, but good all-female franchises have never been rare either. SJW: Shoujo sports manga about ambitious women has never existed before REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Attack No. 1 - 1968 Ace wo Nerae - 1973 Attacker You - 1984 And these are just the ones that i remember watching reruns of as a kid There's no shortage of sports shoujo manga/anime (or any other anime with strong female characters), but there's obviously gonna be more sprots shounen manga/anime, because generally guys are more interested in sports than girls! It's not fucking rocket science I'll never get why it's so hard for people today to grasp the concept that just because you're not the majority, the target audience, you can't like that product for what it is, no it has to be specifically taylor made for you in every way, that's bull shit!! |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
AnimeFA78N said: Nyarly-kyun said: There are lots of stronk animu girls everywhere, even in harem anime. For example during most of Rosario to Vampire, Tsukune can't even defeat a fly so it's up to Moka and the other heroines to kick the villain's ass. I didnt read the manga but i think tsukune grown stronger by a lot via end of series https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tsukune_Aono#True_Ancestor_Vampire Yeah i heard about that, that's why i said "most of" Guess i should just read the manga already huh |
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Nyarly-kyun said: AnimeFA78N said: I didnt read the manga but i think tsukune grown stronger by a lot via end of series https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tsukune_Aono#True_Ancestor_Vampire Yeah i heard about that, that's why i said "most of" Guess i should just read the manga already huh Ye he went beta to alpha (both personality and power wise) real quick which is pretty rare considering betas never do change in jp anime |
| @DigiCat Please show me a moment where I complained about the very existence of the manga, and not the reaction to it. Tyraq said: Most mainstream animes which are mostly shounen have bad female characters and they feel more like plot devices that are troupy, or are there for fanservice but there are numerous good and well developed female characters outside of those animes Don't tell me you're the kind of person who thinks that before JJK there were no good female characters in shonen. |
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| @RobertBobert no I think Gintama and Aot has really good female characters but, on the top of my head, I think the best example of an anime that does female characters right would be Re:Zero. Fate also comes close |
RobertBobert said: @DigiCat Please show me a moment where I complained about the very existence of the manga, and not the reaction to it. Robert you misunderstand me, i'm not saying you complain of the existence of these manga, i'm saying SJWs do You said you saw people praising modern sporst shoujo as if it's a rare piece (when it's obviously not) i'm making fun of those people, they're the same type of people who with Star Wars praised Rey to the high fucking hevens "finally we have a stron female character in Star Wars!!" when Princess Leia's been there from the very beginning 🤣🤣 frankly i find people like that to be blatently stupid, and i'm glad you do not fall in that category, 'cause i don't want intelligent people to be a rare piece on this planet |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
Tyraq said: @RobertBobert no I think Gintama and Aot has really good female characters but, on the top of my head, I think the best example of an anime that does female characters right would be Re:Zero. Fate also comes close Well, I agree that characters who only exist to be love interests are very boring. But I don’t understand people who think that if feelings for a male character are an important part of a shonen girl’s personality, then it’s supposedly diminishes their "value." So if I can still partially accept Hinata's criticism when people say that feelings for Deku are ruining Ochako's development, I feel like saying "what?" |
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DigiCat said: RobertBobert said: @DigiCat Please show me a moment where I complained about the very existence of the manga, and not the reaction to it. Don't tell me you're the kind of person who thinks that before JJK there were no good female characters in shonen. Robert you misunderstand me, i'm not saying you complain of this stuff, i'm saying SJWs do You said you saw people praising modern sporst shoujo as if it's a rare piece (when it's obviously not) i'm making fun of those people, they're the same type of people who with Star Wars praised Rey to the high fucking hevens "finally we have a stron female character in Star Wars!!" when Princess Leia's been there from the very beginning 🤣🤣 frankly i find people like that to be blatently stupid, and i'm glad you do not fall in that category, 'cause i don't want intelligent people to be a rare piece on this planet Then apparently it's friendly fire. I still remember people praising the late 10s PreCure season, claiming that femboys is revolutionary for shoujo these days lol. |
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DigiCat said: I'll never get why it's so hard for people today to grasp the concept that just because you're not the majority, the target audience, you can't like that product for what it is, no it has to be specifically taylor made for you in every way, that's bull shit!! This just has to do with the fact that mainstream culture is exclusive in and of itself, and fiction is just a microcosm of that. complaining about fiction is easier, and it's also easier to demand change in products as a consumer than it is to conceive of avenues to concretely change your whole actual culture. maybe reading some of this will help make it make sense. since people feel they aren't "recognized" in their cultural environment, they at the very least want fiction, which is supposed to provide fantasy and escape, to offer them recognition that they cannot find elsewhere. Tyraq said: @RobertBobert no I think Gintama and Aot has really good female characters but, on the top of my head, I think the best example of an anime that does female characters right would be Re:Zero. Fate also comes close not like.. nana or utena or something? |
| Cause they've watched ten anime in their lives and they think they know what they're talking about. Or they're just repeating someone else's criticisms. |
ohohohohohoho said: DigiCat said: I'll never get why it's so hard for people today to grasp the concept that just because you're not the majority, the target audience, you can't like that product for what it is, no it has to be specifically taylor made for you in every way, that's bull shit!! This just has to do with the fact that mainstream culture is exclusive in and of itself, and fiction is just a microcosm of that. complaining about fiction is easier, and it's also easier to demand change in products as a consumer than it is to conceive of avenues to concretely change your whole actual culture. maybe reading some of this will help make it make sense. since people feel they aren't "recognized" in their cultural environment, they at the very least want fiction, which is supposed to provide fantasy and escape, to offer them recognition that they cannot find elsewhere. Tyraq said: @RobertBobert no I think Gintama and Aot has really good female characters but, on the top of my head, I think the best example of an anime that does female characters right would be Re:Zero. Fate also comes close not like.. nana or utena or something? We discussed mostly male-focused anime. Shoujo obviously has some of the best female characters, if not the most. |
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gwezxr said: Is it really surprising when there are still a lot of people who think anime as a medium consists of only shonen action and nothing else, which is aimed at young male viewers and therefore has mostly main male characters usually in their teens. Well, a lot of people still think that most new shows are harems and meaningless ecchi. It is extremely ironic to see these people try to criticize the industry when a typical harem these days is likely to be perceived as a dinosaur. |
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RobertBobert said: DigiCat said: Robert you misunderstand me, i'm not saying you complain of this stuff, i'm saying SJWs do You said you saw people praising modern sporst shoujo as if it's a rare piece (when it's obviously not) i'm making fun of those people, they're the same type of people who with Star Wars praised Rey to the high fucking hevens "finally we have a stron female character in Star Wars!!" when Princess Leia's been there from the very beginning 🤣🤣 frankly i find people like that to be blatently stupid, and i'm glad you do not fall in that category, 'cause i don't want intelligent people to be a rare piece on this planet Then apparently it's friendly fire. I still remember people praising the late 10s PreCure season, claiming that femboys is revolutionary for shoujo these days lol. Wait, what? What do you mean by femboys?? Please don't ruin my childhood 😨 ohohohohohoho said: DigiCat said: I'll never get why it's so hard for people today to grasp the concept that just because you're not the majority, the target audience, you can't like that product for what it is, no it has to be specifically taylor made for you in every way, that's bull shit!! This just has to do with the fact that mainstream culture is exclusive in and of itself, and fiction is just a microcosm of that. complaining about fiction is easier, and it's also easier to demand change in products as a consumer than it is to conceive of avenues to concretely change your whole actual culture. maybe reading some of this will help make it make sense. since people feel they aren't "recognized" in their cultural environment, they at the very least want fiction, which is supposed to provide fantasy and escape, to offer them recognition that they cannot find elsewhere. Well i'm sure glad that i'm lazy and don't seek recognition 😁 |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
| Because snowflakes have to complain about something. |
RobertBobert said: We discussed mostly male-focused anime. Shoujo obviously has some of the best female characters, if not the most. well that's kind of what i'm trying to draw attention to. in male-focused anime, as you put it, having a good female character is like a consolation prize. male focused anime is the majority of anime made, and naturally the majority of discussion revolves around that kind of anime. EVEN IF there are other options, they fall outside of the mainstream of the culture. so we mostly have these cases where we're essentially saying "the show is for men, but here: have this male consumer approved 'strong female' character to balance things out." men aren't forced to cling to scraps in a medium dominated by female fantasy. it's the opposite. and to reiterate my point from my first post, popular fiction is just a microcosm of the culture, and it's much easier to complain and seek change when it comes to consumer products than culture more broadly. if you are not willing to accept that basic assumption you are never going to accept the consequent point being made. the dissatisfied reply is being treated as if it is hysterical at its core (which is the very embodiment of refusing to offer the female subject position "recognition," thinking of the word as defined in the quotes in my above post) but the logic of it is pretty plain to see, isn't it? why should a MASSIVE group of people settle for a consolation prize that isn't even necessarily the thing they actually want in the first place? the "strong female" is a fetishistic trope in itself. it's compromised, because it's at it's core still meant to appeal to men first and foremost, and fit into this greater milieu of a show that's meant to appeal to men. it's not a woman's fantasy, i.e. shoujo or josei (which can and should still be subject to critique suffice it to say). so we're sitting back wondering "when is it going to be good enough for you to stop complaining?" when what's being offered is just a bait and switch. i'm not necessarily a major fan of identity politics or some of its underlying assumptions, but i don't think the type of complaint being put under discussion in this thread is really irrational or unfounded. hopefully i am answering the question in OP at least. |
| A lot of hope remains in the anime industry. It doesn't appear that there are only a few strong female characters based on what I've seen so far. (。_。) |
 ◽◽◽ ᓚᘏᗢ ◽◽◽ Having lived through trauma and mind-fucking, I'm accustomed to it now. |
| Maybe in quantity but in qualititties usually the ones with female lead are better. |
| Quality is also kinda subjective tbh so far i think i came across just as much good shows with female mcs as male mcs based on shows i personally loved and enjoyed |
| there are more male mcs but there are also a lot of good female mcs, probably the people that say that just got into anime and have watched only the popular stuff and think that its representative of the whole medium, wihch is why nobara and miaksa despite being pretty badly written end up being considered amazing characters because stronk woman" while there are 100 times better ones out there |
| I'm more of the component that it'd be nice that the male-oriented shows don't actively create female co-leads to shove them aside later or just actively take a dumb on them to make the MC look cool. That and just making them a walking arm-piece. |
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RobertBobert said: its probably because of the double standard that man are always horny and just want attractive girls to fuck while girls want the perfect boyfriend that will treat them kindly and all of that, also shoujos never get adapted and people rarely complain about manga, also it seem like people barely complain about manswervice in general compared to the complaints that there about fanservice for some reason@exonerate Well, shoujo is understandably overcrowded with overly sexualized and unrealistically represented men, but I've never seen anyone complain about it that much. For some reason, people think that when a woman fantasizes about the ideal man, she just wants to find a good and caring man, but when a man fantasizes about the ideal woman, then he is simply engaged in sexist male fantasies. |
| There are a bunch strong female characters, less than their male counterparts but it's not like it's a scare product. Don't worry. |
 just wanna feel wanted by someone other than the police 😫 |
| Don't listen to everyone. Ppl in this community like believing that the thing they like is exclusive and rare. |
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