Do you try to rate "objectively"?
| Im geniunely curious to know the amount of people who think like this and what people think of the people who think like this. |
AnimeLeviathanMar 29, 2021 12:29 PM
| I gave up on character of the week since it takes too much thinking. I'll just change my forum pfp to whoever I want every week lol. |
| who the hell rates objectively here? |
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| There is no such thing; ratings are inherently subjective. |
| Objectivity in the assessment of art is an illusion. Those who claim objectivity just want to make their subjective opinion appear more important than that of others. Which is ridiculous. |
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| If everything were objective it would be boring, personally I consider myself half objective and half subjective when qualifying |
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AquamarineNT said: Half objective is the same as half pregnant.I consider myself half objective and half subjective when qualifying |
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| Is there somewhere a stone table like the ten commandments, or perhaps one amongst the base equations of string theory, that lay down the adamant rules of how someone should rate objectively? Please show them to me otherwise I can't answer your question. |
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| I do think you can at least try to rate objectively, it's not something impossible because "true objectivity doesn't exists". However, I think it is bad because it forces you to rate almost everything between 6 and 8, just as professional videogame or movie reviewers do. For example: - I'm watching a highly acclaimed anime, a "classic" you could say, and I'm not enjoying it. It's boring, but I can't give it a low score due to the supposedly "good writing". I have to rate it 6 or 7, at least. - I'm watching a supposedly trashy anime and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's very entertaining, but I can't rate it higher than 6 or 7, since it isn't particularly deep or thought provoking. |
| No. Those who think they rated objectively, that's just their opinions speaking too loudly in their heads |
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inim said: XDXDXD that's a stupid but funny analogyAquamarineNT said: Half objective is the same as half pregnant.I consider myself half objective and half subjective when qualifying |
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| No I don't. The only thing objective about my ratings is that they're subjective. |
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| Not entirely, no. I try to not get too biased though if that counts? Like I wont give a 1 to an anime no matter what. |
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| Objective ratings. Sounds like a oxymoron. |
Nirinbo said: I do think you can at least try to rate objectively, it's not something impossible because "true objectivity doesn't exists". However, I think it is bad because it forces you to rate almost everything between 6 and 8, just as professional videogame or movie reviewers do. For example: - I'm watching a highly acclaimed anime, a "classic" you could say, and I'm not enjoying it. It's boring, but I can't give it a low score due to the supposedly "good writing". I have to rate it 6 or 7, at least. - I'm watching a supposedly trashy anime and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's very entertaining, but I can't rate it higher than 6 or 7, since it isn't particularly deep or thought provoking. Well I have a question for you. Do you think its possible for one to rate objectively? |
| I gave up on character of the week since it takes too much thinking. I'll just change my forum pfp to whoever I want every week lol. |
| I don't rate objectively, but I still rate fairly since I have a lot of categories (thanks to my rubric) ranging from the story, characters, animation, music, and enjoyment. This means that I am not biased since if I find one aspect that I didn't like, there should still be an aspect that I would like. One example would be JJK. While the animation is outstanding, the pacing (heck, it adapted 60+ chapters in 24 episodes. For comparisons, KnY adapted 50 chapters in 26 episodes... so yeah, JJK is definitely rush af), characters, and music are pretty below average. Hence why it got a lower rating for me. |
 I wasted all my time in rewatching to the point of my rewatch total is higher than my overall anime total lmao |
Ishitateso said: Even The Ten Commandments couldn't unite everyone under one religion. If there was such set of principles for anime (or for art in general), it would still tumble down to personal experience and interpretation.Is there somewhere a stone table like the ten commandments, or perhaps one amongst the base equations of string theory, that lay down the adamant rules of how someone should rate objectively? Please show them to me otherwise I can't answer your question. |
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| Sometimes I look at technical merits of a work when I'm rating. Sometimes I don't care at all about that. |
Hey_Taka-tin_Hey said: There was an actual 100% objective gaming review written once. It was an abomination. And it shut people up for years. It was made both to "trigger" some people and to prove a point. It did both. You actually can make a completely unbiased review, but it's an inhuman mess. It is not just boring, it is straight-up uncomfortable to listen to. I could justify my ratings to an objective level. Sure. But when asked to elaborate, I could not (and would not) remove the human part. Whenever you hit me with the "why?", you will be subject to my personal bias. Be glad that you will. Wait can you link the review I actually wanna read it now lmao. |
| I gave up on character of the week since it takes too much thinking. I'll just change my forum pfp to whoever I want every week lol. |
| I will never understand those people who rate anime objectively |
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| There's not much to say about objectivity when it comes to personal taste, but saying there's no such thing as objectivity is a stretch. For instance, it's an objective fact that episode 8 (I think) of Tsuki Ga Kirei was badly animated. A case can be made for the background CGI — it's one of the worst I've seen, even when compared to other terrible CGI, but other people might not care about it — but episode 8 it's not up to discussion: there are even missing frames in more than one scene, which is a clear sign of sloppiness in production. Incompetence is something that can be assessed and it's not just up to subjectivity. Now, whether you like episode 8 of Tsuki Ga Kirei, or even its animation, is up to subjectivity, but saying it wasn't badly animated is plain ignorance. Just as well, whether the style of animation is good or bad is up to discussion. Is Ping Pong's animation good? Is old animation like Gundam or Versailles no Bara bad? There's no true objective answer to this, but a close analysis of its style can also lead us to tell scenes where the animation was subpar compared to the rest of it. You can also talk objectively about separate elements of a story. For instance, character: how much development did they get? Are they three-dimensional characters? Are they just clichéd archetypes? Whether or not the answer to these questions is good or bad is up to subjectivity, after all "complex" characterisation is not always a good thing, but these are all things that can be assessed as well. The only true subjective question is: did I like it or not? There's a lot that can be analysed under an objective lens through comparison with other works or through the study of narrative in literature and cinema, but whether this lot suits one's taste is completely up to subjectiveness. |
Satyr_iconMar 29, 2021 11:21 AM
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AnimeLeviathan said: Nirinbo said: I do think you can at least try to rate objectively, it's not something impossible because "true objectivity doesn't exists". However, I think it is bad because it forces you to rate almost everything between 6 and 8, just as professional videogame or movie reviewers do. For example: - I'm watching a highly acclaimed anime, a "classic" you could say, and I'm not enjoying it. It's boring, but I can't give it a low score due to the supposedly "good writing". I have to rate it 6 or 7, at least. - I'm watching a supposedly trashy anime and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's very entertaining, but I can't rate it higher than 6 or 7, since it isn't particularly deep or thought provoking. Well I have a question for you. Do you think its possible for one to rate objectively? Is it possible to rate objectively? I don't think so. Is it possible to try to rate objectively? Yes, you can. 100% true objectivity doesn't exist, but you can at least try to get close to it. How can you try to rate objectively? Give a higher weight to objective aspects such as animation (we all agree that Houseki no Kuni 3DCG looks better than Ex-Arm) and writing (a screenwriting expert could tell apart strengths and weaknesses, such as plot holes, of a script) over subjective ones (sheer enjoyment that you can't concretely explain). Why shouldn't you rate objectively if you are just a MAL user and not a professional reviewer? See my previous comment. |
NirinboMar 29, 2021 11:28 AM
| Do you rate "objectively" - No, but I do analyze aspects that can be graded objectively such as production value What do you think of people who rate "objectively"? - Retarded for attempting to objectively rate an artistic medium that involves subjective enjoyment |
 If you're having crippling depression, hopefully our videos will send you to another world and have you reborn as an isekai protagonist https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc8rSgYdcdZUSXXqVJhNwLw |
Satyr_icon said: "bad animation" "I've see". Neither is "bad" defined, nor have you seen all. What you describe is a subjective opinion backed by arguments. Which increases the value of it, but nowhere makes it "objective". Objective are natural constants and math, little else. Nothing stops me from rating that episode 8 10/10 because I like the charm of imperfection and another element outweighs animation quality for me. Maybe because I'm blind and only listen to the audio, which renders animation quality 100% irrelevant for my rating.There's not much to say about objectivity when it comes to personal taste, but saying there's no such thing as objectivity is a stretch. Some opinions are backed up by arguments better than others. Still none of them is objective. |
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inim said: "bad animation" "I've see". Neither is "bad" defined, nor have you seen all. What you describe is a subjective opinion backed by arguments. No, it's not. Animation that's sloppy to the point it lacks frames indicates incompetence on the part of the team and that it was badly animated. That's not up to subjectiveness. If a novel is filled to the brim with unintentional grammatical errors, it's not "subjective" to say it was badly written. inim said: Nothing stops me from rating that episode 8 10/10 because I like the charm of imperfection and another element outweighs animation quality for me. Maybe because I'm blind and only listen to the audio, which renders animation quality 100% irrelevant for my rating. You realize nothing you said contradicts my point, right? In fact, you're agreeing with me without realising it. Yeah, nothing stops you from liking the bad animation in episode 8, as I said myself. It doesn't mean it's not badly animated. You can say the animation is good, of course, but that's just plain ignorance. Saying it is "imperfect" indicates that there's a problem with it, whether you like it or not. And if you're blind, you don't even get a say on whether the animation was good or not. Continuing my example from before, you can rate a novel full of grammatical errors a 10/10 because "you like the charm of imperfection". It doesn't mean the novel is not poorly written. |
Satyr_iconMar 29, 2021 11:52 AM
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Satyr_icon said: Says who? If I rate it 10/10, I choose different weights on the criteria which matter to me in my assessment of art. Your criteria and the weight you place on them is equally valid,and equally subjective. inim said: "bad animation" "I've see". Neither is "bad" defined, nor have you seen all. What you describe is a subjective opinion backed by arguments. If a novel is filled to the brim with unintentional grammatical errors, it's not "subjective" to say it was badly written. [...] Continuing my example from before, you can rate a novel full of grammatical errors a 10/10 because "you like the charm of imperfection". It doesn't mean the novel is not poorly written. You are throwing around words such as "bad" "error" "unintentional" and so on. You are not the artist, and you are not me. So how can you decide all that for others? You can only speak for yourself, anything else is pretentious. I totally get your point about technical aspects of a work of art. But art is in the eye of the beholder. I can take a turd, and if I find somebody who says it's art, it becomes art. That simple. |
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| I rate with a mixture of subjectivity and objectivity, I don't believe that everything in a show is objective but I do think there are some stuff that can have proofs behind it. I don't think you can ever prove that a component (for example a story) is bad or good since different people like different things, But you can (at times) prove that a story is inconsistent or unrealistic, You can (at times) prove that a character changed throughout the story but you can't prove that this development was good or bad, You can prove that the shading in a frame was really off compared to real life but saying is bad is a false since if one person on the planet like shading being off then it's all subjective. |
| I don't speak English that much, so please cut me some slack |
inim said: Says who? If I rate it 10/10, I choose different weights on the criteria which matter to me in my assessment of art. Your criteria and the weight you place on them is equally valid,and equally subjective. Your criteria don't matter when assessing specific elements of a work that didn't quite work as intended. You can't look at the grammatical errors and say "hey, those aren't grammatical errors", you see? You can not care about them or like them, but they are still grammatical errors no matter what you think. inim said: You are throwing around words such as "bad" "error" "unintentional" and so on. Fine, if the problem are the words I'm using, then I'll use your own words. You yourself admitted that the animation in episode 8 is "imperfect". Not only that, but you went to say "another element outweighs animation quality for me". So if you admit that, you recognise that the quality of animation in that particular episode is subpar when compared to the rest. You like it? Sure, it's your right. That's subjective. It's a step down from the rest of the show, WHETHER YOU ENJOY ITS CHARM OR NOT? Yes. That's objective. Returning to my words, I never said "bad" meaning that "you can't like this". I used "bad" as in "the producers made a mistake in this particular episode compared to the rest of the anime and that's not up to debate". inim said: I can take a turd, and if I find somebody who says it's art, it becomes art. That simple. That's a terrible way to see art, but okay. |
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| Yes, I rate 'objectively'. Did I enjoy TPN season 2? On the whole, yes. Why? Because I was invested in the characters and story after season 1. Is TPN season 2 'objectively' a bad show? Yes. |
Satyr_icon said: I can't possibly "admit" stuff, Mr. Gestapo officer, Sir. You assume to be in a position of superiority w/r to your opinion. You clearly are not. I do not need to justify anything just because you disagree with it. And please abstain from telling me what I think, e.g. consider "subpar".inim said: Says who? If I rate it 10/10, I choose different weights on the criteria which matter to me in my assessment of art. Your criteria and the weight you place on them is equally valid,and equally subjective. Your criteria don't matter when assessing specific elements of a work that didn't quite work as intended. inim said: Fine, if the problem are the words I'm using, then I'll use your own words.You are throwing around words such as "bad" "error" "unintentional" and so on. You yourself admitted that the animation in episode 8 is "imperfect" [...] "another element outweighs animation quality for me". So if you admit that, you recognise that the quality of animation in that particular episode is subpar when compared to the rest. Satyr_icon said: It's the only way for art to evolve. In 1900, Western music didn't have a blue note yet, people found listening to "negro music" terrible and "erroneous". Same when atonal 12 tone music was written. Same when abstract paintings were made. Your attitude is to declare some arbitrary status quo to be "right", and deviant works "errors". What makes you even think that grammatical errors in writing can not be art? Acclaimed literature like James Joyce is brimming with grammatical errors, uses words that do not exist, and has sentences running over multiple pages.inim said: That's a terrible way to see art, but okay.I can take a turd, and if I find somebody who says it's art, it becomes art. That simple. I think your narrow minded take on art mainly is your coping mechanism for insecurity. You want to count peas and "calculate" the value of art. Rest assured that all taste is acquired, and your criteria will be considered ridiculous 200 years from now. Because art is in the eye of the beholder only. |
inimMar 29, 2021 12:31 PM
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| No one here rates objectively. I have never come across a system that is widely used for objective rating and review of anime. If it is objective every single person who rated objectively would have an identical rating. To be objective it has to be devoid of emotion, any form of bias, and be done through a system of checks and balances to adhere to some sort of set of rules that make it objective. Ratings which are essentially micro reviews cant be done objectively by an emotional being that thinks for itself. Art in of itself is entirely subjective from creation to consumption. This whole idea that you can rate objectively is asinine. It is possible to rate more objectively than another person but not entirely objective. Also before someone says that a sociopath can rate objectively which has been thrown at me before. Sociopaths have emotions generally dulled down and they don't empathize with others, they are not devoid of emotion they just structurally are much different in their emotional states and reasons etc. |
| There is no such thing as an objective rating. There is no way to measure the characteristics of anime to even arrive at any sort of objective rating. Going "I enjoyed this show but I can see its flaws" does not make your rating objective. The only people who believe in objectivity when rating anime are to some degree or another pretentious. |
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| I've only seen people use the word "objectively" in a sarcastic way. I mean, how can one rate something objectively? |
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inim said: I can't possibly "admit" stuff, Mr. Gestapo officer, Sir. You assume to be in a position of superiority w/r to your opinion. You clearly are not in. I do not need to justify anything just because you disagree with it. ...are you seeriously pulling an ad Hitlerum out of nowhere? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH jeez, grow up. I thought this was a conversation, but you are getting unnecessarily salty over it. Read the rest of what I said. I forgot to put my reasoning with it: You can't look at the grammatical errors and say "hey, those aren't grammatical errors", you see? You can not care about them or like them, but they are still grammatical errors no matter what you think. inim said: It's the only way for art to evolve. In 1900, Western music didn't have a blue note yet, people found listening to "negro music" found it terrible and "erroneous". Same when atonal 12 tone music was written. Same when abstract paintings were made. Your attitude is to declare some arbitrary status quo to be "right", and deviant works "errors". What makes you even think that grammatical errors in writing can not be art? Nobel prize winning literature like James Joyce is brimming with grammatical errors, uses words that do not exist, and has sentences running over multiple pages. I think your narrow minded take on art mainly is your coping mechanism for insecurity. You want to count peas and "calculate" the value of art. Rest assured that all taste is aquired, and your criteria will be considered ridiculous 200 years from now. Because art is in the eye of the beholder only. And you say I'm the one putting myself on a position of superiority when you go ranting and presuming like that when all I did was just disagree with a single line of what you said? Doesn't take much to see who's the insecure one here. |
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| @Satyr_Icon I think it's very simple tho. What you call bad animation, is objectively, just animation that's not what we have agreed upon is acceptable. Similarly, a text full of grammatical errors, is objectively, what we have agreed upon is not acceptable. But neither of that makes them ''objectively bad''. That would imply they are bad regardless of anyone's opinion, but the value you ascribe to it is entirely based on opinion. |
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| I don't rate objectively because that's impossible. People who do actually don't; they are just deluding themselves |
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Kaasfondue said: @Satyr_Icon I think it's very simple tho. What you call bad animation, is objectively, just animation that's not what we have agreed upon is acceptable. Similarly, a text full of grammatical errors, is objectively, what we have agreed upon is not acceptable. But neither of that makes them ''objectively bad''. That would imply they are bad regardless of anyone's opinion, but the value you ascribe to it is entirely based on opinion. I agree, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "bad" as it rustled some jimmies here. But still, we can agree that things like missing frames and bad grammar are 'objectively' not within the range of what's acceptable according to general conventions, right? Whether we think it's bad or not? |
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Satyr_icon said: You do not decide what is a "grammatical error", James Joyce does. You still put your own subjective opinion above both author and other consumers of art. Pulling the spelling mistake card when judging literature is about as ridiculous a criterion as it gets. inim said: You can't look at the grammatical errors and say "hey, those aren't grammatical errors", you see? You can not care about them or like them, but they are still grammatical errors no matter what you think.I can't possibly "admit" stuff, Mr. Gestapo officer, Sir. You assume to be in a position of superiority w/r to your opinion. You clearly are not in. I do not need to justify anything just because you disagree with it. |
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inim said: You do not decide what is a "grammatical error", James Joyce does. You still put your own subjective opinion above both author and other consumers of art. Oh no, now he pulled a Finnegan's Wake on me BWAHAHAHAHAH Ok, I understand you objectively don't like how I think, but do come back when you learn how to cordially discuss your thoughts with others without resorting to diatribes. |
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Satyr_icon said: Says the BWAHAHAHAHA guy without any self-awareness or irony. I see you are out of arguments, have a nice day.inim said: Oh no, now he pulled a Finnegan's Wake on me BWAHAHAHAHAHYou do not decide what is a "grammatical error", James Joyce does. You still put your own subjective opinion above both author and other consumers of art. Ok, I understand you objectively don't like how I think, but do come back when you learn how to cordially discuss your thoughts with others without resorting to diatribes. |
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