| No, I'm serious. This anime contains so many cliches of action anime from the late 90s to early 00s that it starts to border on nostalgic parody. Cartoon characters with hair in unnatural bright colors, unique multi-colored mecha, eccentric shonen-ish male lead, sarcastic tomboy, stereotypical oujo-princess pacifist, quasi-Wild West setting, evil empire as villains (although this is probably an 80s cliché) and even a soundtrack in the spirit of children's anime with Fox Kids. To be honest, the list is endless. Every element of this show is literally bingo from the popular tropes of the time. Yes, I know that the writer for this show is an anime veteran and wrote Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill. But at least these shows weren't so much tied to their time. |
RobertBobertJan 17, 2021 8:49 PM
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| Yeah, I agree, this is made for a very specific audience; people who desperately want more Gurren Lagann but don't want to rewatch it. |
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| You almost say that like it's a bad thing, though with that said Back Arrow doesn't exactly carry those tropes with a lot of class so far so I can understand rolling your eyes at it. Other than the CGI animation which is surprisingly really good it's been kind of disappointing in that regard. It reminded me of an 80's or 90's anime in the first episode but it hasn't done anything that's made that a good sign yet |
Atelier_Weiss said: You almost say that like it's a bad thing, though with that said Back Arrow doesn't exactly carry those tropes with a lot of class so far so I can understand rolling your eyes at it. Other than the CGI animation which is surprisingly really good it's been kind of disappointing in that regard. It reminded me of an 80's or 90's anime in the first episode but it hasn't done anything that's made that a good sign yet It's definitely not bad, it's very funny. Especially when you don't expect to get it while watching the first episode. |
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| In a certain sense, yes, but it's not like we are exactly swamped with anime trying to reflect that particular era. That's why would I dare ask...what is exactly the problem with this? Other than the fact it may not interest too many people who prefer the current decade's tropes (with all of their respective cliches, of course). Then again, I don't think achieving popularity is what ultimately matters here, at least not to me, so I don't really care about that (nor do I place much value in rankings or scores). RobertBobert said: Yes, I know that the writer for this show is an anime veteran and wrote Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill. But at least these shows weren't so much tied to their time. I mean, if you don't see a considerable number of nostalgic cliches and old tropes in Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill, then you're either not looking for them or simply lack a relevant frame of reference. Coming from the same writer, it's the least surprising state of affairs. Atelier_Weiss said: You almost say that like it's a bad thing, though with that said Back Arrow doesn't exactly carry those tropes with a lot of class so far so I can understand rolling your eyes at it. Other than the CGI animation which is surprisingly really good it's been kind of disappointing in that regard. It reminded me of an 80's or 90's anime in the first episode but it hasn't done anything that's made that a good sign yet "Class" is an interesting term to mention here, since I wouldn't really argue that Gurren Lagann or Kill la Kill were "classy" anime either. Hard to have such an expectation in all honesty. Admittedly, I'm enjoying the the show right now so it's difficult to argue with folks who may not (or who simply like a lot less of it). Be that as it may, I don't think it's particularly useful to judge a 24 episode series without having seen at least 3, 4 or 5 episodes. Even Gurren Lagann didn't really do anything super memorable until a certain Kamina sequence (in episode 8) and that wasn't the highest point either. I get the feeling the quick pace of the modern Internet has made people a lot less patient and more demanding in terms of instant gratification. |
GolbeztheGreatJan 17, 2021 11:53 PM
GolbeztheGreat said: In a certain sense, yes, but it's not like we are exactly swamped with anime trying to reflect that particular era. That's why would I dare ask...what is exactly the problem with this? Other than the fact it may not interest too many people who prefer the current decade's tropes (with all of their respective cliches, of course). Then again, I don't think achieving popularity is what ultimately matters here, at least not to me, so I don't really care about that (nor do I place much value in rankings or scores). RobertBobert said: Yes, I know that the writer for this show is an anime veteran and wrote Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill. But at least these shows weren't so much tied to their time. I mean, if you don't see a considerable number of nostalgic cliches and old tropes in Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill, then you're either not looking for them or simply lack a relevant frame of reference. Coming from the same writer, it's the least surprising state of affairs. Atelier_Weiss said: You almost say that like it's a bad thing, though with that said Back Arrow doesn't exactly carry those tropes with a lot of class so far so I can understand rolling your eyes at it. Other than the CGI animation which is surprisingly really good it's been kind of disappointing in that regard. It reminded me of an 80's or 90's anime in the first episode but it hasn't done anything that's made that a good sign yet "Class" is an interesting term to mention here, since I wouldn't really argue that Gurren Lagann or Kill la Kill were "classy" anime either. Hard to have such an expectation in all honesty. Admittedly, I'm enjoying the the show right now so it's difficult to argue with folks who may not (or who simply like a lot less of it). Be that as it may, I don't think it's particularly useful to judge a 24 episode series without having seen at least 3, 4 or 5 episodes. Even Gurren Lagann didn't really do anything super memorable until a certain Kamina sequence (in episode 8) and that wasn't the highest point either. I get the feeling the quick pace of the modern Internet has made people a lot less patient and more demanding in terms of instant gratification. It's not so much about it being literally classy, as in top of the line writing or anything but more about being able to own it with the level of confidence those shows had. Still it's unfair to critique Back Arrow being only 2 episodes in in that regard but I will say that for instance Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill had far better first two episodes and ran for the same duration, though they fell in quality at the halfway point before picking up again in the end. So maybe Back Arrow is more about the gradual buildup to a memorable 3rd act rather than being a rollercoaster of varying quality from start to finish. I'm not really the type of person to use that patient/instant gratification argument on though, based on your favourites we watch pretty similar stuff. I just think Back Arrow's made less of an impression than those shows did in the first two episodes, similarly so compared to some of the 80's/90's/00's anime that these cliches are based off of. Even with old anime first episodes are generally very good because they want to throw a lot of ideas into it to get your mind thinking and encourage you to keep watching but Back Arrow's didn't really do it for me. Also sorry if I loaded your notifications, I don't post on MAL or forums in general so I forgot how to quote a message properly lol |
| thats a good thing for a boomer like me nostalgia overload |
| @RobertBobert Well sadly I have to agree as well, mecha anime wasn't as popular back then, but tying to the times when they came out, and look at how that came out: the typical modern Trigger shows that have the bombastic aesthetic hearkening to a time lost. As for Back Arrow? It's just the same old Trigger mecha shit, just not funny nor entertaining anymore. |
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KANLen09 said: @RobertBobert Well sadly I have to agree as well, mecha anime wasn't as popular back then, but tying to the times when they came out, and look at how that came out: the typical modern Trigger shows that have the bombastic aesthetic hearkening to a time lost. As for Back Arrow? It's just the same old Trigger mecha shit, just not funny nor entertaining anymore. Well, if Sunrise was always trying to catch new trends, Trigger were always the guys for me when they always stayed true to their clichés and tropers. |
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KANLen09 said: As for Back Arrow? It's just the same old Trigger mecha shit, just not funny nor entertaining anymore. And yet this way of thinking indicates that apparently it's fine for certain popular genres to repeat themselves every single season, but it's somehow wrong for an old-school show like this to exist. Needless to say, the double standard applied to the situation is quite evident. In any case, I'll try to be polite here. You guys go have fun with your current trends and seasonal fads. Let some of us enjoy this series in peace. |
GolbeztheGreat said: KANLen09 said: As for Back Arrow? It's just the same old Trigger mecha shit, just not funny nor entertaining anymore. And yet this way of thinking indicates that apparently it's fine for certain popular genres to repeat themselves every single season, but it's somehow wrong for an old-school show like this to exist. Needless to say, the double standard applied to the situation is quite evident. In any case, I'll try to be polite here. You guys go have fun with your current trends and seasonal fads. Let some of us enjoy this series in peace. Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I did not notice that my friend said that this is acceptable for other genres, or even that it is bad for old genres. He just said that in his opinion, in this particular show, it doesn't work very well. |
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RobertBobert said: Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I did not notice that my friend said that this is acceptable for other genres, or even that it is bad for old genres. He just said that in his opinion, in this particular show, it doesn't work very well. That would be a very generous interpretation of the statement. Saying "same old Trigger mecha shit" that isn't funny or entertaining anymore is framed as a generalization (and not a particularly thoughtful one either). In any case, I should follow my own advice and talk about the show elsewhere since discussing it in this environment is a pointless and dead-end effort. I wish people were more open-minded and flexible towards this series, which makes me a little sad/upset, but I know it won't happen. We don't really share the same anime tastes either, so it's a predictable state of affairs. |
GolbeztheGreatJan 22, 2021 9:40 AM
GolbeztheGreat said: RobertBobert said: Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I did not notice that my friend said that this is acceptable for other genres, or even that it is bad for old genres. He just said that in his opinion, in this particular show, it doesn't work very well. That would be a very generous interpretation of the statement. Saying "same old Trigger mecha shit" that isn't funny or entertaining anymore is framed as a generalization (and not a particularly thoughtful one either). In any case, I should follow my own advice and talk about the show elsewhere since discussing it in this environment is a pointless and dead-end effort. I wish people were more open-minded and flexible, which makes me a little upset, but that's not going to happen and obviously we don't share the same anime tastes either way. In my opinion, the statement "isn't funny or entertaining anymore" makes it pretty clear that he was only talking about this show, while at the same time finding others funny and entertaining. |
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| I only just discovered that this anime existed, and based on the character designs, it does have a somewhat older style to it. But I have a question. What kind of mecha anime is it? Is it "Real Robot," like the Gundam franchise, or is it "Super Robot," like Mazinger Z? |
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RobertBobert said: In my opinion, the statement "isn't funny or entertaining anymore" makes it pretty clear that he was only talking about this show, while at the same time finding others funny and entertaining. Let me turn this example around to clarify then. If I say "same old harem shit" or "same old isekai shit", that indicates the person speaking is likely getting tired of a genre as a whole and not just about one particular series. Which is a valid opinion, mind you, but it's not going to lead to any meaningful conversation. (Although that one is also ironic, since there are in fact dozens of new harem and isekai series coming out every single year, compared to a very small number of new mecha anime productions, so it's something we only rarely get to see right now). Seiya said: I only just discovered that this anime existed, and based on the character designs, it does have a somewhat older style to it. But I have a question. What kind of mecha anime is it? Is it "Real Robot," like the Gundam franchise, or is it "Super Robot," like Mazinger Z? To answer that, I think the show would qualify as Super Robot...but it's closer in style to Gurren Lagann, Overman King Gainer or Xabungle than Mazinger. |
| @GolbeztheGreat You keep looking for the negative. The person just said that he found this show too old-fashioned and less interesting than the more original Trigger's mecha shows. I don't understand why you insist on seeing this as an attack on the genre. |
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GolbeztheGreat said: RobertBobert said: In my opinion, the statement "isn't funny or entertaining anymore" makes it pretty clear that he was only talking about this show, while at the same time finding others funny and entertaining. Let me turn this example around to clarify then. If I say "same old harem shit" or "same old isekai shit", that indicates the person speaking is likely getting tired of a genre as a whole and not just about one particular series. Which is a valid opinion, mind you, but it's not going to lead to any meaningful conversation. (Although that one is also ironic, since there are in fact dozens of new harem and isekai series coming out every single year, compared to a very small number of new mecha anime productions, so it's something we only rarely get to see right now). Seiya said: I only just discovered that this anime existed, and based on the character designs, it does have a somewhat older style to it. But I have a question. What kind of mecha anime is it? Is it "Real Robot," like the Gundam franchise, or is it "Super Robot," like Mazinger Z? To answer that, I think the show would qualify as Super Robot...but it's closer in style to Gurren Lagann, Overman King Gainer or Xabungle than Mazinger. Oh, I see. I guess I'd better avoid it then, as I have no interest in super robot anime. Out of the very small few super robot anime I've seen, none of them were interesting. |
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Seiya said: GolbeztheGreat said: Let me turn this example around to clarify then. If I say "same old harem shit" or "same old isekai shit", that indicates the person speaking is likely getting tired of a genre as a whole and not just about one particular series. Which is a valid opinion, mind you, but it's not going to lead to any meaningful conversation. (Although that one is also ironic, since there are in fact dozens of new harem and isekai series coming out every single year, compared to a very small number of new mecha anime productions, so it's something we only rarely get to see right now). To answer that, I think the show would qualify as Super Robot...but it's closer in style to Gurren Lagann, Overman King Gainer or Xabungle than Mazinger. Oh, I see. I guess I'd better avoid it then, as I have no interest in super robot anime. Out of the very small few super robot anime I've seen, none of them were interesting. It depends on what you mean by Super Robot. This is more about mecha suits than robots. |
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RobertBobert said: Seiya said: Oh, I see. I guess I'd better avoid it then, as I have no interest in super robot anime. Out of the very small few super robot anime I've seen, none of them were interesting. It depends on what you mean by Super Robot. This is more about mecha suits than robots. Well, I hated "Gunbuster," so I assume that I probably hate all super robot anime. |
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RobertBobert said: @GolbeztheGreat You keep looking for the negative. The person just said that he found this show too old-fashioned and less interesting than the more original Trigger's mecha shows. I don't understand why you insist on seeing this as an attack on the genre. Let's just agree to disagree in peace, both concerning this statement and about the show. We simply don't read that phrase the same way. In that case, this isn't really like Gunbuster so far, outside of having some lighthearted and comedic moments...but I am huge fan of Gunbuster, personally speaking, so I imagine you probably might get more out of watching Gundam or something more serious and political. That said, just because you don't like Gunbuster doesn't mean you wouldn't like any Super Robot shows at all, although it does seem likely you may only enjoy a few of them. |
GolbeztheGreat said: RobertBobert said: @GolbeztheGreat You keep looking for the negative. The person just said that he found this show too old-fashioned and less interesting than the more original Trigger's mecha shows. I don't understand why you insist on seeing this as an attack on the genre. Let's just agree to disagree in peace, both concerning this statement and about the show. We simply don't read that phrase the same way. In that case, this isn't really like Gunbuster so far, outside of having some lighthearted and comedic moments...but I am huge fan of Gunbuster, personally speaking, so I imagine you probably might get more out of watching Gundam or something more serious and political. That said, just because you don't like Gunbuster doesn't mean you wouldn't like any Super Robot shows at all, although it does seem likely you may only enjoy a few of them. Well, on top of that, the main character in Back Arrow looks like a self-absorbed nutjob. |
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Seiya said: Well, on top of that, the main character in Back Arrow looks like a self-absorbed nutjob. I would say episode 3 goes a decent way towards proving that assumption wrong. He's still a very straightforward and not super smart dude, granted, but not to that level. |
GolbeztheGreat said: Seiya said: Well, on top of that, the main character in Back Arrow looks like a self-absorbed nutjob. I would say episode 3 goes a decent way towards proving that assumption wrong. He's still a very straightforward and not super smart dude, granted, but not to that level. Well, going back to the boomer anime discourse, this is a pretty classic male lead archetype. |
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GolbeztheGreat said: Seiya said: Well, on top of that, the main character in Back Arrow looks like a self-absorbed nutjob. I would say episode 3 goes a decent way towards proving that assumption wrong. He's still a very straightforward and not super smart dude, granted, but not to that level. Yeah, I'm just not going to watch it. I generally avoid most modern anime, anyway. |
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RobertBobert said: Well, going back to the boomer anime discourse, this is a pretty classic male lead archetype. Fair, but I think classic archetypes work for a reason. Arrow is rather likable by now. |
GolbeztheGreat said: RobertBobert said: Well, going back to the boomer anime discourse, this is a pretty classic male lead archetype. Fair, but I think classic archetypes work for a reason. Arrow is rather likable by now. I don't mind anything. As I said before, in fact, I even like to find regular classic clichés in this anime. |
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Sqream said: shane_nichols said: No wonder Anime Snob likes this trash LMFAOOO. THANK YOU FOR COMMENTING ABOUT HIM. I just watched his seasonal anime video and I've laughed SO HARD for the first time in a few days. He's like the definition of hurr-durr retro good new bad but in anime taste, the only boomer anituber I've ever watched. Who is anime snob? I had a bad experience with anime blogers, so I only watch Gigguk and a couple more. |
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vardavarr said: RobertBobert said: No, I'm serious. This anime contains so many cliches of action anime from the late 90s to early 00s that it starts to border on nostalgic parody. Cartoon characters with hair in unnatural bright colors, unique multi-colored mecha, eccentric shonen-ish male lead, sarcastic tomboy, stereotypical oujo-princess pacifist, quasi-Wild West setting, evil empire as villains (although this is probably an 80s cliché) and even a soundtrack in the spirit of children's anime with Fox Kids. To be honest, the list is endless. Every element of this show is literally bingo from the popular tropes of the time. Yes, I know that the writer for this show is an anime veteran and wrote Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill. But at least these shows weren't so much tied to their time. I don't think this anime is particularly good or anything, and I mostly agree with your criticisms, but bro.... you gave Kimi to Boku no Saigo no Senjou a 7/10 and you wanna talk about cliches????? lmao Again, I didn't say anything about it being bad. If it still amuses me, then I don't care about it. |
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RebelPanda said: Yeah, I agree, this is made for a very specific audience; people who desperately want more Gurren Lagann but don't want to rewatch it. Or y'know just general mecha fans? Most of the mech peeps ik have been enjoying it so far. This show is probs for a bit more of a niche audience, but it def shows potential to be pretty good imo. |
| *generic image of favorite characters with a sappy quote or "aesthetics"* Mecha Anime/Manga/VN Tier List Anime/Manga/VN Tier List |
vardavarr said: RobertBobert said: Again, I didn't say anything about it being bad. If it still amuses me, then I don't care about it. OK, that's legit. But to be fair, the title and tone of your post DOES make it seem like you're disparaging the show haha. At least in my opinion, shounen are rarely "spectacular" (as in 7/10 and up) when you compare them to all anime. I kind of have a separate scale for shounen because all of the criticisms you listed (which again, are totally valid) will definitely be found in most of them. It just seems kinda weird to point them out for an individual anime when they're basically embedded into the very fabric of what "shounen" is. This is not a criticism, I just find it very hilarious how much this show embodies everything that was considered shonen-ish in the early 00s. Yes, someone might have complained about it as an old-fashioned silly show, but personally I find it very nostalgically cute. For this reason, I enjoyed Tonikaku Kawaii. Although I'm not a fan of these shows, I found it very sweet that the work was done in very strong tones of 00s romantic comedies. |
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Pyro81300 said: Sure I guess not all mecha fans like Gurren Lagann. I didn't mean to generalize. I'm not a fan of mecha but I've been enjoying Back Arrow enough to stick with it.RebelPanda said: Yeah, I agree, this is made for a very specific audience; people who desperately want more Gurren Lagann but don't want to rewatch it. Or y'know just general mecha fans? Most of the mech peeps ik have been enjoying it so far. This show is probs for a bit more of a niche audience, but it def shows potential to be pretty good imo. |
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RebelPanda said: Pyro81300 said: Sure I guess not all mecha fans like Gurren Lagann. I didn't mean to generalize. I'm not a fan of mecha but I've been enjoying Back Arrow enough to stick with it.Or y'know just general mecha fans? Most of the mech peeps ik have been enjoying it so far. This show is probs for a bit more of a niche audience, but it def shows potential to be pretty good imo. I'd say most mecha fans like TTGL. You might come across some contrarians that'll call it like a discount Getter Robo, but nah most people like it. I'm enjoying Back Arrow too myself, let's both hope it stays good in the long run lol. |
| *generic image of favorite characters with a sappy quote or "aesthetics"* Mecha Anime/Manga/VN Tier List Anime/Manga/VN Tier List |
| Ignoring the previous discussions on this thread. Yes I agree This Anime has a lot of cliches and troupes And though you seemed to stay in a somewhat neutral stance about it, for me that's a good point of this Anime. I better much prefer a Anime that's more of a love letter than an Anime that tries to be good and unique but fails miserably becoming super bad. I'm not too versed when it comes to Mechas but it's hard to not see all the love touches and inspirations Anime like Back Arrow and Gridman uses, and that puts a smile on my face at least. On the other hand you have stuff like Egao no Daika or Kuromukuro that "tried" to do something "original" but they were just terrible. Back Arrow for me feels like an early 2000s Anime that happen to be released today and I don't say it as a bad thing. It really feels like I could be watching it on my old CRT with a Cartoon Network logo at the corner You know? And I think that's the appeal of this Anime and it is sad a lot of people just simply don't see that and judge it too quickly. But what can you expect of the MAL userbase xD. At least the page where I watch Back Arrow in has it better rated. |
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| Just looking at that cover I would've thought that this was some obscure 90s show. |
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Sqream said: RobertBobert said: Who is anime snob? I had a bad experience with anime blogers, so I only watch Gigguk and a couple more. He's this drunk old dude who posts short videos comparing every anime to the og ones and shits on them. I found him funny but then quickly got tired of him. It's a relatively small channel tho with some 10k subs iirc. What was your bad experience? Curious I am. Sounds like a very laconic description of oldschool fans who think that literally all anime is shit, because "nothing better than Bebop and Ghost in the Shell wasn't even be made". |
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| @RobertBobert thanks for the defending though. Now that I think of it, it's really "OK Boomer" the tried-and-true mecha for a new generation. @GolbeztheGreat I mean no ill intent by saying that Back Arrow IS a bad show, it's just that IMO, rehashing the same tried-and-true formula multiple times is gonna get old very fast. Yes, I can agree that it's made for a niche audience, the same way that SSSS.Gridman turned out to be (and that was a bad-turned-great show), but personally I find it taxing that the same formula that Gurren Lagann or any of the mecha shows of the past (say the Gundam franchise) worked well in their time. Bringing something like Back Arrow is like trying to be the Eizouken of mecha anime, but so far there's missing elements that don't quite click so well (at least for the start). I believe that when anime is made, you have to think about the current times as well from either both newbies and veterans' perspective. Heck, I can give an example about Gurren Lagann that released in 2007, imagine that time when you were just getting into anime, and was thinking like: "Heck yeah, this anime is awesome!", because it defined the landscape for years to come as the de-facto "standard". AGAIN, I have to re-emphasize that Back Arrow is NOT bad, it's just made for a very niche audience that'll enjoy this. As for me, don't mind me, but I'm looking for symbolism. |
KANLen09Jan 29, 2021 8:23 AM
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| @KANLen09 No problems. I really didn't see the point in making such accusations if you clearly said "this time". |
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Dukino said: This thread makes my brain hurt. Boomer (dumb term but lets keep using it I guess) anime? Like wtf are you talking about. Bashing the show, which is what you're trying to do don't deny that, by saying it's got older tropes and things from before! Makes no sense. Do you know whom the staff is working on this? Director of Code Geass? Writer of Gurren Lagann? Of course its gonna have older style of doing things! Holy hell are the people bashing the show in this thread like 12 years old. I'm 24 but the language here makes me feel ancient. Learn your anime history folks. I literally make it clear to the entire post that this is a comic thread and even specifically mention that I am aware of the experience of the stuff of this show, but people still come here to "educate" me that this anime was made by veterans and that I supposedly hate this show. Lol, just lol. Also, if you are a normis fan of shonens who doesn't know memes or even the stupidest over-used slang, then this is not my problem, sorry. |
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| Holy fucking shit zoomers. You have shitloads of shows this season, let us have one fun for us too. KANLen09 said: As for Back Arrow? It's just the same old Trigger mecha shit, just not funny nor entertaining anymore. What old Trigger mecha shit? Trigger's mecha anime are less than 4 years old. KANLen09 said: As for me, don't mind me, but I'm looking for symbolism. A pretentious overthinker. Of fucking course. |
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| I guess I'll consider myself a boomer then. I'm really enjoying Back Arrow. |
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