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| I just think that so far Gou feels like it doesn't know for who it wants to be. The question arcs should set the mystery, the tension/horror, but we got... the most "inoffensive" part of minagoroshi instead? Like who would care for this? New fans would likely not feel any connection to the characters yet and thus they are deprived of the compelling horror of something like tatarigoroshi, while veterans are sitting waiting for something new to happen. And it did happen, mind you, but it happened right at the end of such an uneventful arc... like where's the pace? /rant |
Gar_Logan said: skipped said: I think this episode is shit, because instead of leading into a bad ending, it just pulls an "and then they all died" on us delivered through exposition without actually showing anything. One of my friends who is watching with me says the most annoying part of this show is how we don't actually see anything happen, and at the end of each arc we just get exposition that at least 2 or3 other people died somehow. Basically yeah. And it is always Keichi that is the survivor that finds out and has basically a small reaction to what he learns. Seems like someone is messing with him not Rika. The conclusions to the arcs just end up boring exposition even if the set up a few minutes before was really good. |
| It's a bit funny to me how several people are seemingly defending this new show by saying "The real Higurashi is about this and it's like that". As if this new show is what the real Higurashi at it's core is/should be like. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
| Really not a big fan of how this arc was handled. I love Minagoroshi-hen, even though it's slower paced than the other Higurashi arcs. Tataridamashi-hen had all the build-up of Minagoroshi (even though it felt less deserved, since we're only 12 episodes into this show) but it doesn't have the amazing climax! The Satoko/Teppei/Child Services climax is done off screen and the audience is told what's happened. Then we get some new original stuff, with Satoko being suspicious as fuck (even though I aww'd at the nii-nii scene), Teppei showing up out of nowhere and once again Keichi/the audience is told what's happened and we don't get to see anything! Show, don't tell. It's the number one rule of a visual medium. And we're not getting any of the good shit right now. I'm just rambling rn, but I can't help but be a bit disappointed. I was down with Onidamashi and Watadamashi, but this one did not jive with me. It felt weirdly paced and Minagoroshi's storyline is way more satisfying when it's told later down the line. It's also way more satisfying if we get an actual climax. This must also have felt REALLY weird for Gou-only viewers, as the show suddenly turned into a very slow legal drama lol. But wait, here's some gore and a mass murder in the last three minutes of the arc!! Gar_Logan said: One of my friends who is watching with me says the most annoying part of this show is how we don't actually see anything happen, and at the end of each arc we just get exposition that at least 2 or3 other people died somehow. Yeah, I understand where your friend is coming from. The original Higurashi's question arcs were also sorta guilty of this trope, but they at least showed the audience some heavy shit before giving us the final exposition + bad ending. Gou is guilty of hardly showing anything. |
Samu-tanDec 27, 2020 4:15 PM
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| For me the only way the end could make any sense is if Keichi was hit by a trap set from Satoko as a prank just when Ooishi, who came by to check, happened to enter, Keichi went L5 from the hit and mistook him for Teppei. Satoko, who didn't take her shots, saw all the rampage and also mistook him for Teppei because of their similar build. Ooishi then recovered his senses but was L5 because of the whole thing and followed Satoko to the festival where he went on a rampage. |
| lol Gou as a mystery is boring as fuck, i barely feel any hint has been given, arc 2 was probably the more eventful with the statue and Takano stuff and even that was largely a dud. I'm not even sure what we actually learned in this arc. We already knew that even if Rika does the right thing she still fails. Compare this arc of Gou to Tatarigoroshi-hen or Umineko Ep. 3, which are some of the best things R07 has written and literally dripping with hints and interesting stuff. |
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| Possibilities: -After Keiichi was hit with the bat, he actually passed out, and the entire scene was a delusion. -Teppei may have never been in Satoko's house that night. -We don't know if Oishi is dead or arrested or what. -Rena's explanation of events was so fragmented that nothing is actually 100% connected. Oishi and a gun...but she didn't flat out say it was his gun, or that he shot anyone. It's just pieces of random information. Furude Shrine, Oishi, gun, everyone dead, I don't understand it. -Rena said it was lucky that Keiichi was at Satoko's. While he may have avoided whatever happened at the shrine, is it... "lucky" to have your skull bashed in and be left bleeding out and then spend months in the hospital? (Luckier than murder, for sure, but still strange word choice). |
Anyway problem is still that the only thing we have is Keichi delusions and fragmented info from Rena. Even the weirdest shit in the OG had something more concrete like Keichi finding a corpse with specific kind of wound. Now we are just told stuff by unreliable, for one reason or another, characters. Rena might as well have said that Ooishi was shooting aliens. Even old culprits do not act suspiciously at all so we might as well forget their involvement. Even the stuff they focus on end up pointless. Like the club game in arc 1. They used the marker of all things and yet it had nothing to do with the end. Yes yes I know "deceiving" and all that. Everything is more like easter eggs than clues. |
DCEmperor said: To be honest, I don't even know anymore.Hulio said: It's a bit funny to me how several people are seemingly defending this new show by saying "The real Higurashi is about this and it's like that". As if this new show is what the real Higurashi at it's core is/should be like. But.. Gou is generally about the same things the original Higurashi was about? Admittedly, we don't have an explanation for what exactly is going on in Gou, but people are already speculating that this is again the result of some sort of tragic human division. I have no idea what GOU is going for, and I don't want to think about it anymore. Maybe I'll start thinking about this again when the Answer arcs begin after the filler arc/ep. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
Hulio said: DCEmperor said: To be honest, I don't even know anymore.But.. Gou is generally about the same things the original Higurashi was about? Admittedly, we don't have an explanation for what exactly is going on in Gou, but people are already speculating that this is again the result of some sort of tragic human division. I have no idea what GOU is going for, and I don't want to think about it anymore. Maybe I'll start thinking about this again when the Answer arcs begin after the filler arc/ep. Pretty much my complaints as well. Ooishi didn't even look paranoid before. Even when he was being antagonistic, it was just enough to fulfill his orders and was pretty calm when the Sonizakis arrived. In fact if anyone should go L5 in this arc are the CWS guys. |
DCEmperor said: We didn't see what drove Keiichi and Shion to go nuts either until the answer arcs came out. And besides, Ooishi already did have a motive to attack the village, and he was showing signs of being evil earlier in the arc. He really didn't, he showed signs of being antagonistic because he felt that was his role to play, they even explain it when he talks to his colleague. Him going bonkers and starting to shoot people is a total 180° (If that happened), even in the original he never went crazy despite having spent like 5 years investigating some gruesome murders. He seemed to be one of the most level headed and resilient characters if anything, which I suppose makes sense given his job and strong beliefs. |
Jin_uzukiDec 29, 2020 12:23 AM
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DCEmperor said: None of that is true.We didn't see what drove Keiichi and Shion to go nuts either until the answer arcs came out. And besides, Ooishi already did have a motive to attack the village, and he was showing signs of being evil earlier in the arc. We saw Keichi, Rena and Shion go nuts. We even had motives but we didnt know why they were driven to act. And no, we didnt see an evil Ooishi. We saw a cop being irritated by a brat that cant lie to save his life(or others). The new anime hasnt even given a motive for Ooishi. Simply "curses are bs" isnt a motive to kill kids. In this episode it was even made clear that that he wasnt even making an effort to break up the protesters. |
TKNion said: If this was a DEEN adaptation, we would have actually seen Oishii's supposed rampage. Show, don't tell. Shion/Mion arc was the same. In the very climax we didn't get to see anything happening. Just a few stills where everyone is already dead. Why are you assuming that it was the studio's decision to show or not show this stuff? From all the interviews with the author, this seems to be his decision. He literally said that if you feel that things are awkward in how they're conveyed, this isn't the fault of the studio and that this was done on purpose. |
| That was a good beating |
| What do you guys think of this theory? Please correct me if I was wrong at some point. And I'd like to hear your opinions on the matter. |
EragurDec 29, 2020 2:47 PM
We'll be together for all eternity.  |
littleproblems said: And?Hulio said: Quite literally written by Ryukishi07It's a bit funny to me how several people are seemingly defending this new show by saying "The real Higurashi is about this and it's like that". As if this new show is what the real Higurashi at it's core is/should be like. That sentence by itself doesn't respond/mean anything. Unless of course, by saying that you mean that this Gou is going beyond what the VNs were. Doesn't matter if it has the same author or not, the works can still deviate and contradict the "source material" or original work. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
| well this arc was just unnecessary. A huge waste of time really. Whats the point of Oishi just killing the girls? Just so that we can go back and start with another arc again? After 4 pretty boring episodes without any thrill? This end wasnt even shocking. It was the last ep of the arc so they had to give us a twist, but wtf how weak was this. I liked Gou at first but this arc was just bad. I hope the next one will we better. |
Comander-07Dec 29, 2020 1:51 PM
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| The end of this episode makes ZERO sense. So, Ooishi came into the crowd (and everyone knew it was him) and started shooting. There was a CROWD. Against ONE MAN. With his single-shot gun from the early 80s. This isn't like a mass shooting with semi-automatic weaponry, this is one guy with a revolver in a crowd full of people who could have EASILY disarmed and restrained him. You're telling me not a single person thought to retaliate and stop him? On the night of Watanagashi where everyone is already on edge and bracing themselves to protect others from falling to a curse? It doesn't fit at ALL with anything in this universe. The entire point of this arc was that the people of Hinamizawa can band together to overcome anything, so this ending completely defeats the purpose of everything else that happened leading up to it, and just renders it all meaningless. It just doesn't make any sense. |
| lovelive is relevant and the rest is garbage it's joke |
| Thats it? What the hell. Is the anime skip some important parts? The build up to this ending is great. But theres a lot of loose ends. Why Oishi wents fury and kill Kechis friend? Did Satoko planned to get Keichi killed? Coz the lightd are all turned off. How Hojo Teppei even got to the house? Horrible arc end imo. |
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lowlifeloveliver said: The end of this episode makes ZERO sense. So, Ooishi came into the crowd (and everyone knew it was him) and started shooting. There was a CROWD. Against ONE MAN. With his single-shot gun from the early 80s. This isn't like a mass shooting with semi-automatic weaponry, this is one guy with a revolver in a crowd full of people who could have EASILY disarmed and restrained him. You're telling me not a single person thought to retaliate and stop him? On the night of Watanagashi where everyone is already on edge and bracing themselves to protect others from falling to a curse? It doesn't fit at ALL with anything in this universe. The entire point of this arc was that the people of Hinamizawa can band together to overcome anything, so this ending completely defeats the purpose of everything else that happened leading up to it, and just renders it all meaningless. It just doesn't make any sense. That is not the point of this arc at all. Please either read or watch the original Tatarigoroshi first, and then you realize the general confusion is very much intended. Nothing makes sense, stuff happened without real explanation as to why, nothing seem believable and we are left with more questions than ever. That's how the question arcs are. And here, the Minagoroshi moments is the deceiving part. Think about the very word of "deceiving" and what does that mean in Gou with how each question arcs ended. Dear God, Higurashi in 2020 and people still can't understand the basic core of it. If Umineko ever gets properly adapted, I'm not sure how they're gonna react when watching it. |
| and again....oh! from ZERO it went everything to DESPAIR!!! 5/5. |
 |
Eragur said: I'd say that it is actually the other way around.I feel like if you are a fan of Ryukishi's works so far then you should have some faith in his abilities to write. If you know the past arcs then you should know that you shouldn't take everything that happens during one arc at face value. If you'd take the Tatarigoroshi arc by itself you could say as well that it doesn't make sense that . Because - as we learn later - that's not what really happened. So I'd recommend to actually think about explanations that make the events of this episode less unrealistic instead of complaining that this mystery series doesn't give you an easily understandable and predictable plot in the arcs that are supposed to make you feel like it doesn't make sense. There are enough other points about this series that could be criticized but judging the plot before it's even halfway done isn't really fair. Precisely because we are fans of R07's works so far, we can criticize what we see now. Because we know the past arcs, how they were and how they turned out, we can see why these current ones aren't exactly on par with them. What comes to Tatarigoroshi, I wouldn't say that it didn't make sense storywise (can't speak for everyone tho), but it was a coherent story. This here doesn't make sense in the sense of "why did they do this?" and I don't think any kind of revelation later on will fully justify how this arc was executed. Thinking is always good, thought I don't think this story is currently giving us much desire to think about it. Unlike OG Higurashi and Umineko, they were compelling to think about and you were given the feeling you could actually try to solve them if you thought hard enough. Sad to say, here the Mystery feels more like a Riddle done by a child, It doesn't make quite sense, and you don't feel compelled enough to invest your gray brain cells or time on it. The reward of solving it feels nigh worthless. I do agree that the people complaining about the story points themselves are foolish. The story is supposed to be hard, unrealistic and not predictable. Like Ryukishi once wrote "A mystery that is easily solved is only a puzzle" What comes to judging the plot, people are giving way too much credit for the R07's writing style, composition and answer arcs. The story may only be halfway through, but that doesn't mean we can't judge the first half. The Answer arcs may shine some light on the mysteries, but that doesn't mean the question arcs can/can't be bad. Makes me wonder, they were saying R07 had written a thick script for this show, but where is it? Imagine if the part that is "deceiving" us, was that they had any actual plans for this. Well it could be that 90% of script went for the answer arcs & filler, but that just makes these first 3 arcs a bad recap. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
Hulio said: Eragur said: I'd say that it is actually the other way around.I feel like if you are a fan of Ryukishi's works so far then you should have some faith in his abilities to write. If you know the past arcs then you should know that you shouldn't take everything that happens during one arc at face value. If you'd take the Tatarigoroshi arc by itself you could say as well that it doesn't make sense that . Because - as we learn later - that's not what really happened. So I'd recommend to actually think about explanations that make the events of this episode less unrealistic instead of complaining that this mystery series doesn't give you an easily understandable and predictable plot in the arcs that are supposed to make you feel like it doesn't make sense. There are enough other points about this series that could be criticized but judging the plot before it's even halfway done isn't really fair. Precisely because we are fans of R07's works so far, we can criticize what we see now. Because we know the past arcs, how they were and how they turned out, we can see why these current ones aren't exactly on par with them. What comes to Tatarigoroshi, I wouldn't say that it didn't make sense storywise (can't speak for everyone tho), but it was a coherent story. This here doesn't make sense in the sense of "why did they do this?" and I don't think any kind of revelation later on will fully justify how this arc was executed. Thinking is always good, thought I don't think this story is currently giving us much desire to think about it. Unlike OG Higurashi and Umineko, they were compelling to think about and you were given the feeling you could actually try to solve them if you thought hard enough. Sad to say, here the Mystery feels more like a Riddle done by a child, It doesn't make quite sense, and you don't feel compelled enough to invest your gray brain cells or time on it. The reward of solving it feels nigh worthless. I do agree that the people complaining about the story points themselves are foolish. The story is supposed to be hard, unrealistic and not predictable. Like Ryukishi once wrote "A mystery that is easily solved is only a puzzle" What comes to judging the plot, people are giving way too much credit for the R07's writing style, composition and answer arcs. The story may only be halfway through, but that doesn't mean we can't judge the first half. The Answer arcs may shine some light on the mysteries, but that doesn't mean the question arcs can/can't be bad. Makes me wonder, they were saying R07 had written a thick script for this show, but where is it? Imagine if the part that is "deceiving" us, was that they had any actual plans for this. Well it could be that 90% of script went for the answer arcs & filler, but that just makes these first 3 arcs a bad recap. Well I'd say it depends on the type of criticizm. I've seen a lot of comments on this episode where people simply complained how it's unrealistic that Ooishi would go on a killing spree for no reason. Or how it's nonsense that Teppei is still at the Hojo residence. And those people claimed that the original was far more realistic. Those comments just show that there are a lot of people who view the Higurashi series at it's core as a splatter series with a little bit of mystery in it. These people don't want to think about the mystery, they just want to get the answers asap and if they don't get them they complain about the story being nonsense. I think many of them are disappointed because the horror atmosphere is far worse than in the original so you don't get the typical eerie feeling. I do agree with you that Gou feels different to the original Higurashi and Umineko, even Ciconia. And I don't doubt that this is partially because of the directors of this series. But on the other hand we do know that R07 wrote this story and we were told by him that there is a meaning behind that akward feeling. As someone who absolutely adores his works that makes me faithful that there is some deeper plan for this anime series as well. Even if it doesn't turn out to be a masterpiece comparable to the original it can still be a well written mystery sequel. So far to me these question arcs haven't been bad because of the mystery or the plot. The things I would criticize are the artstyle, the atmosphere, the directing and such things. But there have been some tricks in these arcs that made me feel like there is a lot of potential in this series. That's why I still have fun making theories for this series. There is enough room for that and in the end we will propably get an explanation that makes far more sense than what we believed. I don't want to defend this series at all costs. It does have it's flaws and will never be as good as the original visual novels. It wasted a lot of opportunities as well like adapting more of the novels. But the most important part, the revelation of the mysteries and the plot twists accompanying that is still to come. And those can change a lot about how we view the question arcs, so I'd still wait until then to judge them. |
We'll be together for all eternity. |
DCEmperor said: Hulio said: Unlike OG Higurashi and Umineko, they were compelling to think about and you were given the feeling you could actually try to solve them if you thought hard enough. Sad to say, here the Mystery feels more like a Riddle done by a child, It doesn't make quite sense, and you don't feel compelled enough to invest your gray brain cells or time on it. The reward of solving it feels nigh worthless. About Gou being "unsolvable," the truth of what was going on in OG Higurashi would have been impossible to solve if not for the Answer Arcs. I can't speak for Umineko. And there is an investment in solving the mystery in Gou to me at least. Rika keeps trying her best to prevent tragedy from striking her and her friends, but she keeps failing. Just when things are about to go right for her, things go wrong. The audience is supposed to want to solve the mystery due to their support for the main characters. Maybe that hasn't cut it for you, but plenty of people are trying to solve the mystery of Gou for these reasons. Is she tho? None of us saw her do anything other than giving out pats and scolding or praising Keichi. Where is the Rika that won her future? Where is Rika that "trapped" and asked Akasaka directly for help by "predicting" all the deaths and disappearances? Where is Rika that tried to help Shion and Rena? And R07 said that she would have the spotlight? Well...where the fuck is it? This wasnt any different from OG Higurashi in terms of her focus. Well except the parts where she does something in the OG. |
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