Wandering Witch: The Journey of Elaina (light novel)
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| You know...she’s kind of a bitch. I know it’s not her responsibility to help everyone, but she sees horrible things happening and not only doesn’t help but doesn’t seem to give a damn. |
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| Many people seem to have such a simple and childish mindset. Your remind me of a certain protagonist from a series that I won't mention, but his character, actions, and plot armour do have an uncanny habit of making situations a little too simple. I could summarize it with the next phrase "Not helping is wrong, so we must help" even with people you just met a few hours ago, regardless of the implications that would have. There is no such moral obligation to help everyone. |
Crollybear said: Personally I don't know if I 'd have saved the guard or not either. The guard was an arsehole, the plant girl was actually nice and the guard looked a lot happier being in the arms of his "sister". Are you serious? Someone being an asshole is a reason to leave someone to certain death? And if I will give a girl some substance after which she is uncouncious, I will rape her and she will be happy, then I'm doing nothing wrong? What the hell is wrong with you? He was clearly intoxicated by plants. Many toxic plants here in real life works on the same principle, so people should leave them to death from poison because they are happy? |
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snakezenn said: The magic rules being vague are the only thing that can save her as a character at this point IMO, yes we have only seen one instance of time reversal but what if she can reverse it and just left the guy? Have not read the VN so idk if it explains it better there but from the anime we do not know, would be nice if it did explain it or even give it just one or two lines but as it is she seems like a callous bitch. Honestly this episode does not even seem realistically dark just sort of seems to be dark for being darks sake. I cannot see most people being so cold like she is. I dunno, I doubt the VN explains it either, and I don't really think it should. Seriously, I kinda don't get what's so hard to understand about the simple fact that she stumbled onto a disastrous situation (at least in the flower field's case) that goes beyond her powers to fix it, and that there was nothing she could do about. What was she supposed to do? Cry? Have a mental breakdown? People have different ways to cope with grief, and she did look saddened to me. Being mature also means coming to terms with the fact that bad things happen in the world and that sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. It may be objected that, in this case, she was somehow involved in the whole incident. But the matter of fact is that she had no idea of what those flowers were capable of, and no sane or reasonable person would blame her (or the guards themselves, for that matter) for what happened. As to whether she herself should feel guilty about it nevertheless... this kind of reaction is frankly subjective, and assuming she had the wits to realize what I said about her inability to do anything about it, it's not implausible nor reprehensible IMO for her to feel saddened but not guilt-ridden by what happened. |
snakezenn said: I assume you are talking about me? If so, the only reason in the first half of the episode I believe that she has an obligation is she caused the whole chain of events for town guard, is she obligated to protect the city? No she is not. If she really was the kind of bitch you assume she is, she wouldn't have used her magic to help that girl in ep. 2, or to fix things for that girl slave in ep. 3 with the pot etc., yet she did. What is so hard to accept/understand about the fact there're things she can fix and things she can't fix, and that she'll help when she can but won't when she cannot? |
snakezenn said: G0ldStark said: Many people seem to have such a simple and childish mindset. Your remind me of a certain protagonist from a series that I won't mention, but his character, actions, and plot armour do have an uncanny habit of making situations a little too simple. I could summarize it with the next phrase "Not helping is wrong, so we must help" even with people you just met a few hours ago, regardless of the implications that would have. There is no such moral obligation to help everyone. I assume you are talking about me? If so, the only reason in the first half of the episode I believe that she has an obligation is she caused the whole chain of events for town guard, is she obligated to protect the city? No she is not. I didn't really mean anyone in particular. |
snakezenn said: Honestly did not watch the second half, so I cannot comment on that. It is not even about helping everyone that is what I am trying to get across. She in my opinion messed up on the first half and did not ever try to help the guard. If she had made some effort at all and failed then left I would be fine with that. Honestly her character seems to go on a whim whether she helps people or not. Why would she try to help when it's plain obvious there's nothing she can do about it? I mean, if I walked amongst the ruins of a destroyed city and saw a guy with a mortal wound (like, say, if he lost an arm or something), only a couple minutes away from dying, would you really blame me for not even trying to do something about it (other than maybe a mercy kill if asked)? Seriously, you seem to be stuck into the mindset of Elaina being some kind of world-shattering wizard like Gandalf whereas all she (and the other witches) showed so far are mostly tricks worth of Merlin (you know, the Disney version). It was plain obvious to anybody (except maybe you and the other ppl who're complaining in this thread) that the disaster she witnessed in the first half of episode 3 was WAY beyond her magical abilities to fix. What was even there to try, in the first place? |
Kamel_ said: The plants in the story were said to be sentient so she would have been in trouble if she tried that! Besides, I dont think it would be this simple. She was shocked and decided to leave before things get worseShouldn't Elaina do something about the field of flowers? Like turn it on fire, or something like that... |
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| This episode was genius. We learned about Nino's and his relationship and how he wanted to make her happy. But even though show the person the happiness from the outside, it can make the person more depressed from not being able to ever experience this kind of happiness which can result in, you know... But the best part was that we didn't get to see what happened afterwards and Elaina also said that she actually didn't even want to know the after come of her recent experience. |
| Really enjoying this, love when a character isn’t a mary sue that can save everyone. Also keep the complaining coming, haven't laughed this much in a while. |
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| Really didn't expect Elaina to be like "womp womp" and just fly away after seeing what the flower field does. |
| I personally love Elaina, as I feel she's a realistic character with flaws who makes mistakes and understands what she can and can not do. In regards to the plants, she honestly had no idea the flowers were poisonous and for all we know, the guard could've been poisoned the moment she passed him. The older guard burning the bouquet also ended up contaminating the whole town I think, so that wasn't her fault, and burning the field would've cause the fumes to spread to the whole surrounding area. I honestly don't feel like there was anything Elaina could to fix the situation completely. Not to mention, she doesn't know any of them, therefore has no real reason to help them, no connection at all. You could argue it's somewhat her fault for bringing the bouquet at first, but you could also argue it's not entirely her fault as well, and if the only people who saw her with the bouquet are essentially dead, no one can hold her accountable. With Nino, we don't know whether or not slavery is legal in this world. Elaina weighed her options and knew acting would not cause any real good lasting consequences. Kill the chief, Nino could still kill herself, has no where to go really and shitty person or not, the chief is still a dad to a nice (though naive) kid, Elaina would rob a kid of their only parent for the sake of another, you can't put a single life over another in terms of worth. Apparently the original media of this show doesn't have the Nino and chief coming out of the same room. So I really don't think he's sexually abusing her, I think it's more like he plans to sell her off when she's older. I liked this episode as it shows that Elaina isn't the type to always help someone. She needs a reason and/or to think it through. The world isn't full of saviors, it's full of a variety of kind, evil, and selfish people. Being reminded of the real world in a medium which used for escapism may suck, but it happens. patormov said: Not everything in life is always happy and this episode shows this, Elaina isn't a hero, she is just a traveler. That's why she didn't do something in any of both stories, I don't get why people think she is obliged to do something. Not because you are doing something for someone else means that is correct, such a wonderful advice. Bullshit it was his fault that the guard was turned into compost for flowers. She remain indifferent to the slave trade, when she was the sister of the woman she previously met I have a better phrase for you "With great power there must also come great responsibility" Power is useless if it is not to help others. You...You do know Saya's younger sister PASSED the witch exam right? She went back to their home country without her and Saya was left by herself till she could pass. Nino just happens to be from the same country as Saya and her sister, they aren't related. --------------------------- Mod Note: Merged consecutive posts |
dipItFooOct 16, 2020 9:09 PM
| "The world is not beautiful, therefore it is." -Kino's Journey |
Zanda268 said: MrAwesome2018 said: Nino came out of the fat bastard's room still getting dressed... I had to go back and rewatch that. Totally missed that the first time I didn't put 2 and 2 until I read this as well. I mean, I guess I sorta did, but didn't really put attention to the state of her clothing much at first. So then I re-watched it. The fact she was adjusting her clothing like that sorta reinforced the image after I read your comments. Damn. Dark shit. Even the first part, when the guy was incinerating the flowers. It occurred to me they also incinerate any wondering "zombies" as well... Oof. Elaina's world is pretty messed up, if she encounters these sorta happenings fairly often lol |
| Woah this went dark real fast. It's been a while since I saw an MC stay neutral to this extent. Elaina just doesn't want any of that shit lol. Also damn, I missed Nino getting dressed as well. Holy shit. |
| Also, read some of the replies on this thread. Pretty strong opinions I gotta say. And I sorta agree with most of them. But then again, you should probably stop for a bit and view things differently. She's not a shounen manga hero. She's not a savior. She's a wondering traveler. She's documenting her journey and what she sees throughout. She did not go out to set right the wrongs of the world. She's just logging her travels and events she comes upon. That being said, I do hope for some character development from her. I understand she doesn't want to get involved more than she needs into the affairs of other folk, but I wish she would grow a bit more daring, and doing little things here and there to try to improve a situation, even if a bit. At the end of the day, she is a prodigious Witch with high magical abilities, so pulling little miracles here and there should not be too much of her. Perhaps as she gets life experience, she will grow more as a person. Looking at her family, she had good parents and good upbringing, so she should have the potential. Anyway. In the meantime, I don't expect the story to only be full of uh, tragedy throughout, I don't think it's quite THAT kind of work. So tragic stories aside, I'm hoping to see more adventures in general coming forth. That should be interesting to watch. Should be fun. |
| I know people have mixed opinions on this episode but personally I loved it and it's easily my favorite episode so far. It added a lot of character to Elaina for me and I loved how it showed more of how she is through this episode. The premise itself for this episode was awesome too and Elaina's saying at the end was great and I feel like it'll stick with me for a while. |
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| Best episode of the whole season so far. My jaw dropped to the floor holy crap. Didn't expect it to be this dark and it does so masterfully. |
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| This isn't the wholesome happy show I signed up for. I'm both sad and angry she did nothing. That's a suicidal girl you just left there. That's a cursed flower field you just let kill people. You're a bystander to murder. |
| For us who've read the LN this was expected, but obviously people who didn't were definitely caught off guard. The first story with the plants is actually better in the LN since it goes into more detail about the brother's incestuous love for his sister. And the art when her sister turns into the plant is more gory. I didn't really care for the Emille story in the LN but I guess since they're going for dark episode they go with this one. There's another dark episode that they'll definitely do, but I guess they didn't use it for this story since it'll take up one episode. I'm referring to the amnesia story. But overall still really good, the show is still going great. Only negative would be the Emille story, but that's mainly cause it wasn't as good as the other stories in the LN. |
| this episode just turned dark, didnt expect it tbh MrAwesome2018 said: Nino came out of the fat bastard's room still getting dressed... I didn't realize that the first time I saw the episode damn |
PanainooOct 16, 2020 8:22 PM
| Surprise! surprise! I like it. I guess the 3 episodes rule thing still did the tricks eh. Nino probably doomed in the end since she didn't look up and her shadow is paler. Thing could be different later, who knows. |
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| yeah, she might not be a hero or that her purpose is just to travel and record what she sees, or that she's just staying out of trouble or she just doesn't want to take responsibility if she did something, but you got to admit... what a cold-hearted MC we have here and a very narcissistic one. This episode just leave a bad taste to me not just because of the depressing end it implies to have, but because the MC didn't even try to do something... the lack of trying to do something really makes me see what kind of MC we have here. I'm not saying the show is bad or the MC is bad or evil, just that my expectation of the MC was different from what I thought it would be. but in the end, that's not her purpose, right? I guess this episode just shows what kind of MC we have here, at least I know now what to expect since I didn't read the novel. also, I don't know if she already remembers the ending of the story she read about... but she kinda encourages the boy to make that girl suffer more by saying "you should show it to her now." it's like the whole lesson of the story also applies to her, both she and the boy's intention is good, but in the end, it leads for the other person to suffer more. the difference between her and the boy is that the boy is clueless about what is happening, she isn't. |
 “Fools who don’t respect the past are likely to repeat it.” – Nico Robin |
snowykevin said: i find it more funny when people think a character has to be a sociopath to not be a marry sue.Really enjoying this, love when a character isn’t a mary sue that can save everyone. Also keep the complaining coming, haven't laughed this much in a while. which is ironic considering ryogi shiki in your avatar is closer to a marry sue then most as the ova almost straight up says shes god. just saying. p.s don't get me wrong i love kara no kyoukai just a observation. anyway back on topic. there is a large margin between marry sue and sociopath. and marry sue doesn't mean a good person it means flawless meaning good at everything never loses or suffers. for example silver age superman is a gary stue. you don't need to make a character a sociopath to make them not a marry sue. the main issue with Elaina as a character is while the author didn't intend it that way through out the Light novel Elaina's character comes off as a sociopath she does shit later as well shes willing to scam people just to get what she wants and bend over backwards to make other people suffer just so she can "stay out of it." despite getting neck deep involved in a lot of cases. @darkchez11 she does and says a lot of things that makes her come off as a complete Sociopath in the novel as well.  is basicly her character.i really wish people would stop trying to compare this to kino no tabi. Kino got involved in a ton of the stories. please remember Kino killed a king and destabilized an entire country because said king pissed her off. |
GrimAtramentOct 16, 2020 9:04 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| I'll admit, this episode threw me off completely. I thought this was gonna be a happy go story but they turned this cheery looking anime into a Edgar Allan Poe like tragedy lol. I love it, its different. |
| @hazarddex well, I guess it's time to read the novel after this anime is over, to judge it myself. well, I'm just glad to know what to expect probably won't be caught off guard in the next episodes whatever she does or won't do. |
“Fools who don’t respect the past are likely to repeat it.” – Nico Robin |
| Thread Cleaned Remember to stray away from one-liners such as "good episode," try to elaborate a little further on the episode. Keep in mind this is an Anime Episode Discussion, try to keep novel side discussion to a minimum as that detracts from the actual topic and brings in possible spoilers. In accordance with the board specific rules please remember to follow the Site Guidelines as well to further prevent violations. |
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| well i normally dont watch this right away but saw a reaction referring to this episode as morbid so i was thinking the hell happened...again the hell happened with this show , it's like Kino no Tabi just without most of what that makes that good now mainly just gonna talk about the painfully short first story because there wasn't much to go on outside of Elaina straight up playing a indirect role in fucking everything up and normally you'd expect the person that realizes oh shit a lot of people might die from this thing i didn't mean to do but instead shes just like well bye bitch and flies off like i'm fine knowing if a character is morally grey but i really can't say that with her she is clearly has tendencies of a Narcissistic Sociopath which have overshadow any kind of empathy we thought she had prior to this episode lol. so yeah i'm gonna say shes a awful person you don't get to call yourself a observer or a simple traveling witch when you are a part of the problem of why a whole town dies when you could do something about it that just makes you a sadist sure this wasn't what i signed up for but it just set the stage for the MC is and i ant buying it if the narrative tries to paint these future stories as in a grey area when she is clearly the cause but still is like lolno this ant my problem i'm out which has already happened. |
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| To the people who've read the LN, anyone else see the guy lifting his weight this episode? Is that going to be the muscleman Elaina encounters ? |
katsu044 said: ^ this and what i keep trying to tell people theirs a big margin between sociopath and marry sue.well i normally dont watch this right away but saw a reaction referring to this episode as morbid so i was thinking the hell happened...again the hell happened with this show , it's like Kino no Tabi just without most of what that makes that good now mainly just gonna talk about the painfully short first story because there wasn't much to go on outside of Elaina straight up playing a indirect role in fucking everything up and normally you'd expect the person that realizes oh shit a lot of people might die from this thing i didn't mean to do but instead shes just like well bye bitch and flies off like i'm fine knowing if a character is morally grey but i really can't say that with her she is clearly has tendencies of a Narcissistic Sociopath which have overshadow any kind of empathy we thought she had prior to this episode lol. so yeah i'm gonna say shes a awful person you don't get to call yourself a observer or a simple traveling witch when you are a part of the problem of why a whole town dies when you could do something about it that just makes you a sadist sure this wasn't what i signed up for but it just set the stage for the MC is and i ant buying it if the narrative tries to paint these future stories as in a grey area when she is clearly the cause but still is like lolno this ant my problem i'm out which has already happened. netural doesn't make you a sociopath and in DnD terms you stop being neutral when you are the caustical factor of a horrible tragedy. (That would put you in chaotic evil.) and with the trolly problem she is the person that pulls the lever towards the crowd of people goes "oh well wasn't my fault." |
GrimAtramentOct 16, 2020 9:37 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| It seems that a lot of the people in this thread have internalized Uncle Ben's advice "With great power come great responsibility." However, that is a specific moral mindset that no one is obligated to follow, and it's not like following it is without its dangers. Certainly, lots of harm has been done in the world by people ignoring problems, but there has also been immense amounts of harm done by people with great power who were misguided in applying their responsibility. Just because the Catholic church thought the Crusades were a great idea back in the middle ages doesn't mean they were. |
| Every day you can read a book or watch some anime is a good day! |
| I was shocked when I watch this episode because I never expected that this anime will get a dark episode. I feel really bad for Nino and Emil. Emil really tried his best to make Nino happy but after I heard about the ending of the husband and her wife story, Nino probably kills herself. But, I hope they both will get a happy ending and we will be able to see them in the future episode. |
gaussian_ said: It seems that a lot of the people in this thread have internalized Uncle Ben's advice "With great power come great responsibility." However, that is a specific moral mindset that no one is obligated to follow, and it's not like following it is without its dangers. Certainly, lots of harm has been done in the world by people ignoring problems, but there has also been immense amounts of harm done by people with great power who were misguided in applying their responsibility. Just because the Catholic church thought the Crusades were a great idea back in the middle ages doesn't mean they were. < the point you. the flower incident was basically caused by her. again you don't need to make a character a sociopath to have them not be a mary sue. both Kino and the main character of mushishi were at least willing to clean up there own mistakes. it's not her not willing to help that bothers me it's her sociopathic issue of causing a problem then immediately going "not my problem." i don't completely ad here to the "with great power." philosophy, but i do adhere to cleaning up your own messes. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| Leaving out the brother's love for his sister is actually a major detail and highlights why he's so crazy in that last scene. Of course it's the magic of the flowers too, but he was already madly in love with her to begin with. So the fact the two of them are now conjoined together by this plant, adds to the darkness and weirdness of the story. Would've made it a lot better. The one time we wanted incest, and we didn't get it XD Also when she turns into a plant, they should've gone with the creepiness of the manga art instead. |
| So Elaina is a psychopath meaning she has 0 empathy for people around her. She could have burned the field of flowers, she could have made an illusion spell so that the guy treats his slaves better but no she just watches and records. Her cruelty is amazing. Also what kind of weak person kills herself when being met with the beauty of the world just because she cannot enjoy them at the moment? I like the series but I am starting to seriously hate Elaine. Also what kind of narcissistic whack needs to start every episode telling us how beautiful she is? |
hazarddex said: the flower incident was basically caused by her. I'll concede that she brought the flowers to the town, not knowing their potential for harm, but they were disposed of appropriately. The brother sought the flower field of his own accord, plus I don't believe she ever saw the plant zombies attacking the town. She left before that happened, so she's not really at fault for any of it. |
| Every day you can read a book or watch some anime is a good day! |
| I liked the episode quite a bit. It was gloomy and quite unexpected in this series. |
1. How do we know this exactly? By what manner was the incident caused by her? The flowers were disposed of with both guards touching it. 2. What did you expect her to do when she went to the flower garden for the second time? gaussian_ said: It seems that a lot of the people in this thread have internalized Uncle Ben's advice "With great power come great responsibility." I don't think it's that people think she should be responsible with great power. I think it's because they can't actually reason at all. They'll see a protagonist with a personality trait they don't like and then claim the anime is terrible because the character didn't fit their ideal, morally "perfect" superhero vision of what a main protagonist should be. Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button and removed off-topic talk. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 2:34 PM
Opticflash said: 1. How do we know this exactly? By what manner was the incident caused by her? The flowers were disposed of with both guards touching it. 2. What did you expect her to do when she went to the flower garden for the second time? she knew the story behind the flowers and she knew the plants were dangerous, but she did it anyways. shes even worse in the LN. i find it more funny people try to deflect criticism of a character. literally white knighting for her because shes cute moe blob. having a sociopathic main character isn't a bad thing, but trying to defend her like shes not one is just silly. Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 2:36 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
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