| That's just how the When They Cry community is. And the creator knowingly encourages the duality of everything he does and says, so people talk about it. |
| Honestly, I get where both sides, old fans and newcomers, are coming from. For newcomers, they got the confirmation from both the creator and director that the new series is newcomer friendly. So, when old fans tell them that they should go back and watch a 14 year old series to understand this new series, it feels like needless gatekeeping. I mean, the creator disagrees with the old fans that the old series is required, so what's the problem? For old fans, the new series may as well turn out to be a new experience that could standalone just fine without knowing about the old series or the VN, but that's just the thing. The new series spoiled a huge reveal in the old one, which is considered one of the best horror anime ever made, while the old doesn't spoil anything about the new. This means that watching the new will irreversibly ruin any fresh viewing of the old. So, looking at it this way, if you're going to watch the new anyway, why ruin the original by watching Gou first? Now, a lot of newcomers are not only put off by the visuals of the old, but some also see the episode count and nope out immediately. For those people, they were never going to bother with the original anyway, so it's fine if they continue with the new series. It's the other newcomers who were fine with watching the old series and won't get the amazing experience of going blind into the original Higurashi. So, here's my take on this: Saying that this series is a sequel that absolutely requires the original is very disingenuous. I'm sorry, but I'll take the word of the creator over anyone else's any day until proven otherwise. And no, Last Encore existing doesn't really prove anything. On the other hand, a disclaimer must be put forth that this is a one way street. If a new fan wants to watch it, they need to know that they won't get to experience the classic that is the original Higurashi. |
astroprogsOct 13, 2020 9:07 AM
| Wait, who's angry? I think this graphic change to be good and it's very interesting |
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| > Why Are OLD Fans Angry...? *cough* cat zoophilia artstyle *cough* |
| We're not saying that new fans who only want to watch the new anime should HAVE TO watch the old one no exceptions. If they're not planning to watch the original either way then it doesn't matter if they only watch the new series. We're saying that fans who WANT to go back and watch the original should do it now because the stuff dropped in the second episode IS spoilers for that series respectively and watching Gou first could potentially spoil their enjoyment of the original if they CHOOSE to watch it later. ( Sorry about all the caps I don't know how to put things in italics ) We're not trying to say new fans MUST watch the old series. We're saying people who do already want to watch the original should do it NOW rather than watch Gou first and have that part of the show ruined for them before they have a chance to even touch the original. |
| >I am unable to understand why are the fans angry instead of being happy. Only a few are angry. MAL and YT threads/comment section has been very happy about this. As for what Ryuu07 said, it is pretty simple. THIS series is newcomer friendly. That means that everything they need to to understand Gou will be in the series. This doesnt change the fact that the old one's mystery is partly ruined, or may be completely ruined, depending on how this will turn out. Personally I dont rec the old one because this series will need it. What was so out of this world in this one? Rika looping? Did anyone need an explanation on how Subaru does that? No. They just show you and it is clear. I recommend it because this has the potential to ruin the old. If the new viewer actually plans to watch the original, I tell them to do it now. If they arent interested I dont. They arent even the same thing. LE is a sequel to a story(ending) that doesnt exist in any form of media, has concepts not used in the original game and is nonsensical even for old fans most of the time. Nasu DID fuck it up but fundamentally LE and Gou arent even the same thing. |
ssjokgOct 13, 2020 3:27 AM
| Well we're not mad my friend so go mind your own buiseness, I mean we're 2 episodes in come on |
| check out odd taxi |
Isean2000 said: I am unable to understand why are the fans angry instead of being happy. Like the creater said it's not a complete reboot nor it is a complete original but a change of Perspective This is 100% inaccurate. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Gou is not a remake or reboot or reimagining or shift in perspective. It is a SEQUEL. If everyone would just admit it is in fact a sequel, most OG fans would stop b*tching. When newcomers hear "it's a sequel" they will be fully aware of all the downsides there would be to watching it first. It's then their choice entirely to subject themselves to a sequel. However, if 50% of the Higurashi community misinforms these newcomers and makes them think it is not a sequel, they are unable to make that aforementioned decision properly. Just stop pretending this isn't a sequel and us OG fans will move on to complaining about something else (like the abysmal art style) instead :P For the love of God, please don't click on the spoilered image if you are a newcomer: |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| @K_Rool_Addict "Sequel" doesn't mean anything and it's not the term people have a problem with. It's the phrase "sequel that requires prior knowledge" that people have a problem with. Sequels can stand on their own just fine if the author created it at as such, which he clearly does in Gou's case. ssjokg said: They arent even the same thing. LE is a sequel to a story(ending) that doesnt exist in any form of media, has concepts not used in the original game and is nonsensical even for old fans most of the time. Nasu DID fuck it up but fundamentally LE and Gou arent even the same thing. All true, but I just meant the bit where Nasu said that LE was for both old and new fans, when that was far from the case. It just so happened that LE was for neither lol. |
| Personally i haven't seen anyone who's been upset at the new Higurashi. At first i thought it was gonna be a full blown reboot but it's nice to see that it's a whole new story. It only has about 2 episodes so far and i think it might turn out well tbh. |
 |
astroprogs said: @K_Rool_Addict "Sequel" doesn't mean anything and it's not the term people have a problem with. It's the phrase "sequel that requires prior knowledge" that people have a problem with. Sequels can stand on their own just fine if the author created it at as such, which he clearly does in Gou's case. ssjokg said: They arent even the same thing. LE is a sequel to a story(ending) that doesnt exist in any form of media, has concepts not used in the original game and is nonsensical even for old fans most of the time. Nasu DID fuck it up but fundamentally LE and Gou arent even the same thing. All true, but I just meant the bit where Nasu said that LE was for both old and new fans, when that was far from the case. It just so happened that LE was for neither lol. Maybe in his original version, who knows how many pages long, everything made sense for old and new fans. Do I believe this?Yes because he is Nasu and we know how much he writes for whatever. The problem is the anime script. Ofc this again means that "Nasu is supervising" doesnt mean shit :KEKW: |
ssjokg said: Maybe in his original version, who knows how many pages long, everything made sense for old and new fans. Do I believe this?Yes because he is Nasu and we know how much he writes for whatever. The problem is the anime script. Ofc this again means that "Nasu is supervising" doesnt mean shit :KEKW: Yeah, I lay that trainwreck at Sakurai and SHAFT's feet. |
Kyoyo329 said: I feel like watching the original is a good option just because it was so amazing and it was what this is based off of. But again, the whole point of the series is to enjoy it, so people can watch it how they want. I still recommend the original first just because it was a masterpiece and bone chilling! Yep, watching the original will never be a waste of time. Gou has a steep hill to climb to reach the original's greatness. But that's the only angle recommending it should come from. It's not that you need it to understand the new series, it's that it's flipping amazing that people owe it to themselves to not ruin it for themselves by spoiling it if they can help it. |
littleproblems said: Only DEEN anime 'fans' are angry. Weird cause I am not angry at all. |
| As a fan of the old anime and VN I like the direction it is taking. I liked the aspect of flashbacks in Higurashi Kai. I am surprised old fans would be upset by new content. |
 |
littleproblems said: Only DEEN anime 'fans' are angry. Pretty sure quite a few people were getting angry with the DEEN 'fans'. But yeah, I get the point :D |
         Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
sarazanmai said: Because it was marketed as a remake which was great, and instead, it turned out to be the sequel no one asked for - just like with Rei, Kira and Outbreak. Much of Ryukishi07's work after Umineko Chiru was met with a universal "why though?", yet the man keeps on writing subpar sequels, prequels, interquels and spin-offs. It is weird how the fandom is always excited about everything he does and yet a few people not liking anything beyond the big two just have to pretend they are the majority... Rei was fine. Kira was dogshit but that isnt that much on him but the studio. Outbreak is ..something, not sure what was up with that. But anyway saying that everything he did after Chiru is a "why tho" is just stupid. |
sarazanmai said: Because it was marketed as a remake which was great, and instead, it turned out to be the sequel no one asked for - just like with Rei, Kira and Outbreak. Much of Ryukishi07's work after Umineko Chiru was met with a universal "why though?", yet the man keeps on writing subpar sequels, prequels, interquels and spin-offs. 1- This was never EVER marketed as anything other than a "New Higurashi IP". People ASSUMED this was a remake, and even the interview before the big twist dropped straight stated this was suppose to be a new thing, for both old fans and new fans alike (thus a standalone sequel that likely will give all of the necessary information from the previous material while it goes on, if anything I've seen thus far are evidence of). 2- That's just straight bullshit. You may call the fandisks (literally extras) and the OVAs inferior products to the main series that are in no way essential, because of course they shouldn't be. But if you are saying all of his works were just that, I just find it disingenuous. If anything, even Rose Guns Days, quite the sleeper hit in Japan, got multiple very well received Stage Play adaptations for a pretty good reason, that DEFINITELY not being a "why though?" reaction to it, and that's the least popular of the translated ones, too (and also the most different thing he ever wrote by far). Unless you have an argument to back up what you just said, of course, and I'm all ears and quite deep into the fanbase to get it, so have no fear. Go on and tell me, just how did Higanbana, RGD and Ciconia (just the translated ones, to make it easier) got underwhelming receptions anyhow from the people who actually read them? Also, before you answer, be mindful that Ryukishi07's fanbase got quite shattered (in the West alone, it basically became a vast majority hatedom for years) because of the initial reaction to the finale of Umineko, especially over a super stupid reason involving goats and people getting offended about them, thus why he isn't half as popular as he was up to 2010 (when Umineko was basically as much discussed as Touhou on /jp/ and had a super large active community on animesuki). That says nothing to what actual readers' reception after that was, though, thus why you should keep in mind that less people reading doesn't at all mean more lukewarm receptions to said works from them. |
DanpmssOct 13, 2020 1:30 PM
 |
| As an "old" fan, I haven't witnessed any serious amount of old fans "angry" about Higurashi Gou's existence - quite the opposite. I would say that is a misinterpretation. I've seen many, including myself, become very excited about the prospect of a sequel season and more Higurashi content. I myself wasn't even planning to watch this initially and had zero interest in a shot for shot remake of Higurashi when this was first announced back in January and later press releases seemed to indicate it would be such. I stated my apathy (not anger, but really apathy and indifference moreso) about it numerous times on this forum. If not for revisiting this sub-forum and finding out last week that there was going to be new content and that it was explicitly set after the events of either Higurashi Kai or Higurashi Rei (unclear as of yet), then I would have missed out. So I'm actually quite pleased and I've seen similar attitudes from a number of "old" fans who had little to no interest in this when it was just going to be another cash grab remake (both because I don't think 14 years passage of time really warrants or justifies the need for a remake in media and because the original seasons are so absolutely fantastic), but now are quite intrigued and excited for what's to come. I'm overjoyed this is a sequel season rather than remake as it's the first time I'll get to experience a new Higurashi season as it's airing first run. The only common sentiment I've seen the original fanbase express is that it's a shame newcomers are going to watch this with the mistaken impression fed by deliberately misleading information that this was a remake of Higurashi - as in seasons one and two of the Studio Deen anime (or the VNs or manga). Not that they shouldn't watch this. I believe we all - anyone interested in Higurashi - should watch this. It's only a question of when and many are, I believe, correctly asserting that this is probably not wise for new fans to make their first experience because it's not the original story but additional/supplementary content which chronologically follows it. So watch Gou if you are not interested in seeing a remake of seasons one and two of original Higurashi or you don't believe you'll ever have any desire to explore the massive and beautiful story laid out in them, but don't watch it if you expect it to be a remake of them either shot for shot or only with some minor/negligible changes. Because the changes are absolutely in no way minor or negligible. They already rework everything to include major season two information in the first minutes of the second episode which transforms your entire understanding and experience of and engagement with the story fundamentally and a main character speaks about the events of the earlier seasons as a past event. I am and do support the new season, Gou. I'm planning to watch it all and if anything I hope it will lead to a resurgence and renaissance of Higurashi content and interest in it, as well as perhaps even more crucially, generate support for an Umineko remake/re-adaptation - the one which actually sorely needed it since 2009. I just also support everyone having access to the correct information about it and where this new season falls in the timeline, because it absolutely sucks to spoil yourself on such a treasure which can never be undone. |
WatchTillTandavaOct 13, 2020 1:46 PM
Inudrew said: WTC fans are always mad about any anime adaptation as they thought it took out a lot of what made the series special to them and turned it into a "horror" series. (No pleasing some people) When in truth it's a perfect deconstruction of the horror themes it presents and tags it especially well with mystery. But having said that I think most people that share a ton of love for the anime are enjoying it so far. as others have pointed about the phrasing of ''sequel'', there is also the issue about it as a sequel, it's a sequel, but NOT THE SEQUEL, to higra. which is concerncing since newcomers may think it's the canon epilogue of the original or something hence why calling it sequel is a a curse in itself. coincindetally, it is also one of the main reasons why i don't use the term as is or just avoid it. astroprogs said: @K_Rool_Addict "Sequel" doesn't mean anything and it's not the term people have a problem with. It's the phrase "sequel that requires prior knowledge" that people have a problem with. Sequels can stand on their own just fine if the author created it at as such, which he clearly does in Gou's case. ssjokg said: They arent even the same thing. LE is a sequel to a story(ending) that doesnt exist in any form of media, has concepts not used in the original game and is nonsensical even for old fans most of the time. Nasu DID fuck it up but fundamentally LE and Gou arent even the same thing. All true, but I just meant the bit where Nasu said that LE was for both old and new fans, when that was far from the case. It just so happened that LE was for neither lol. well said |
K_Rool_Addict said: Isean2000 said: I am unable to understand why are the fans angry instead of being happy. Like the creater said it's not a complete reboot nor it is a complete original but a change of Perspective This is 100% inaccurate. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Gou is not a remake or reboot or reimagining or shift in perspective. It is a SEQUEL. If everyone would just admit it is in fact a sequel, most OG fans would stop b*tching. When newcomers hear "it's a sequel" they will be fully aware of all the downsides there would be to watching it first. It's then their choice entirely to subject themselves to a sequel. However, if 50% of the Higurashi community misinforms these newcomers and makes them think it is not a sequel, they are unable to make that aforementioned decision properly. Just stop pretending this isn't a sequel and us OG fans will move on to complaining about something else (like the abysmal art style) instead :P For the love of God, please don't click on the spoilered image if you are a newcomer: SEQUEL~~~~ For real tho, even though he said it was newcomer friendly, watch the OG just to be safe. You won't regret it and it is a great watch |
| remember in fate communoities where someone says fate zero is a prequel then someone pops and say it isn't? it's basically this but it's higurashi edition. |
Phantomnocomics said: remember in fate communoities where someone says fate zero is a prequel then someone pops and say it isn't? it's basically this but it's higurashi edition. Everyone agrees that it is a prequel. They dont agree if it is canon or not, even if the author has said that it isnt timeline wise. |
| Sounds like Final Fantasy VII REMAKE all over again. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
ssjokg said: Phantomnocomics said: remember in fate communoities where someone says fate zero is a prequel then someone pops and say it isn't? it's basically this but it's higurashi edition. Everyone agrees that it is a prequel. They dont agree if it is canon or not, even if the author has said that it isnt timeline wise. it's quite amazing how something that doesn't' happen even in the same timeline can be considered a prequel, and would hardly call ''mainstream media label'' as everyone, remember last encore?. zero is officially canon. no argue on that, the only people i could see arguing about it tbh are anime onlies. |
Phantomnocomics said: ssjokg said: Everyone agrees that it is a prequel. They dont agree if it is canon or not, even if the author has said that it isnt timeline wise. it's quite amazing how something that doesn't' happen even in the same timeline can be considered a prequel, and would hardly call ''mainstream media label'' as everyone, remember last encore?. zero is officially canon. no argue on that, the only people i could see arguing about it tbh are anime onlies. Not canon in FSN's timeline. Of course it is canon as a series in the whole universe of Type Moon. |
ssjokg said: Phantomnocomics said: it's quite amazing how something that doesn't' happen even in the same timeline can be considered a prequel, and would hardly call ''mainstream media label'' as everyone, remember last encore?. zero is officially canon. no argue on that, the only people i could see arguing about it tbh are anime onlies. Not canon in FSN's timeline. Of course it is canon as a series in the whole universe of Type Moon. it may be better to not use the word canon to mean whether zero and fsn timeline/s are tied or not, since it may imply something otherwise, but yeah, they definitely aren't related timeline wise. this reminds me that nasu really hate the concept of chronology, huh |
Phantomnocomics said: Type Moon in general hates dates.ssjokg said: Not canon in FSN's timeline. Of course it is canon as a series in the whole universe of Type Moon. it may be better to not use the word canon to mean whether zero and fsn timeline/s are tied or not, since it may imply something otherwise, but yeah, they definitely aren't related timeline wise. this reminds me that nasu really hate the concept of chronology, huh When does Tsukihime happen? Any time between 2000-2004. When does FSN happen? 2004... probably... When does FZ happen? 1994 or sometime during Clinton's presidency. When does Apo happen? Maybe at the time of FSN. When does Strange Fake happen? X years after FSN. When does FGO happen? 2015, +2 years in NA because we pretend immersion matters. It's surprising that Kara No Kyoukai and Extra have actual dates for their events. |
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