| I suggest not falling for dub-hater bait, and especially not creating a whole new thread in response to it -- that's the exact kind of riled-up reaction they're looking for. |
on 
| That's like saying reading Manga in Japanese with English translator notes is better than just reading it in English. |
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drstonefan said: "People" is in quotes to avoid putting an expletive or an insult in the thread title LOL I thought it was a super passive aggressive way of saying they aren't really people. Kind of like how someone (not me I would never) put the word "fan" in quotes when talking baout people considered not real fans. Not that I took it badly. Gave me a good laugh. The voice acting in dubs is awful. If someone prefer dubs then they probably don't have a very good ear for voice acting. Or they have a slow reading speed so can't keep up with subs, which is fair enough. But claiming dub voice work is anywhere near the level of quality in subs most of the time is just patently false. Also, as to what is "actually" watching the anime. It's about experiencing the purest form of the author's (or the production in general) expression. Order goes: Raw > Subs > Dubs. Watching subbed is like viewing a painting with slight color blindness. It's warped a little but you're still getting it for the most part. Watching in dubbed is like viewing a painting with a more serious color blindness. You're getting even less of the original work. Or maybe one could say it's like seeing less of the painting overall and having the parts you can't see described to you by someone else. Either way you're experiencing the work through a filter. That's not to say the art is no longer there to be appreciated in subs/dubs. And people can take away varying levels of personal enrichment from watching all forms. But the purity argument of sub > dub (and raw > all) still stands. And look I'm not claiming people like myself learning Japanese are going to eventually ascend to some superior level. I will almost certainly never have the level of fluency needed to be able to appreciate raw anime as a native Japanese person does. That's just how things go when dealing with foreign media. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| @ the ongoing debate about Barthes and the death of the author: Not every author has a clear intention in terms of what their work means in the first place (some want it deliberately to be open and mean something different for each viewer), but yes, a lot of them do have intentions. And the death of the author is not about denying that it's just questioning if it should be the frame of reference we use when interpreting a show. It suggests that the actual text/film/show and its contents and structure are a more reliable source of identifying the themes and underlying messages of a show than relying on the authors conscious intention. In it's most extreme form it's denying that the intention of the author is of any importance when it comes to interpreting a work of art. To show how this can lead to very different interpretations imagine a novel from the times of slavery where racism was the mainstream view people held. An author making racists remarks in that novel might not have intended to be demeaning or malicious, he just doesn't know better, but the prejudiced statement or opinion speaks for itself. It doesn't need the author's intent to be identified as racist. The same principle can apply in less obvious ways as well, when it comes to establishing themes or values in a book or show. If it can be identified in a book or movie or anime, it doesn't matter whether the author put it there on purpose or not. It's still there and needs to be considered when interpreting the show. Basically as long as you can argue your point, your interpretation in a cohesive and convincing way that solely refers to the actual content, form and structure of the work in question, the intention of the author is irrelevant. If it's in the work, it's in the work, whether the author put it there intentionally or not. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Peaceful_Critic said: Daniel_Naumov said: That's not really what the definition I was using( What I was using: "This is usually understood as meaning that a writer's views about their own work are no more or less valid than the interpretations of any given reader"). I agree authors do have intentions with their works and saying otherwise would be blatantly wrong.But what about THIS?! -"Barthes (in his work) was challenging the assumption that the author had clear and conscious intentions about every part of his work, but was not proposing that the author had no intentions at all." This is what I can believe and what I understand as logical. If you read the whole article you have linked me, it seems the whole idea got out of hand and is now circulating uncontrollably throughout minds and mediums, while Barthes himself did not mean some of what is now coined as his theory. But he himself was an author, so his "followers" might as well cause a massive paradox. @Pullman You talk about subs as if they do a direct translation instead of a translation with a lot of changes to it in order for it to make sense in English. The OG creator isn't telling sub anime translators how to correctly make the work in English. The only difference between subs and dubs on the conceptual level is the extra step of voicing over what was translated. You can only get a 100% accurate experience of the work if you know Japanese and Japan's culture. Otherwise, stuff is bound to be lost in translation due to the enormous differences between Japanese and English language(http://esl.fis.edu/grammar/langdiff/japanese.htm). If you read my post I actually mention how subs allow you to both hear the original audio and read the translation so you can at least get the full picture. It goes without saying that the subs themselves are still a translation, but I can hear things like the honorifics no matter how the sub decides to translate them while I don't have that option with a dub. I'm not fluent in japanese but there are a shitton of moments where I hear something in the original audio and, in combination with the sub translation, that makes me able to have a better understanding of what was actually being said with all (or at least more) of its nuances and connotations than if I only heard the translated version with no means of comparison. It starts with obvious stuff like honorifics and locations not being localized and hearing if someone uses the first or last name of a person no matter what the subs decide to go with. It continues with stuff like sentence structure (I can hear if a word is used at the beginning or end of a sentence even if the translated sentence has a different structure), intonation (can be language specific and therefore not translatable, but you can hear it as long as you have access to the original audio) and emphasis and ends up with recognizing alot of the specific vocabulary and its nuances and being able to tell when a translation is only accurate in a vague sense but doesn't carry the connotations of a specific term. Like when they say 'moe' and it is translated just as 'cute', or translating 'kawaii' as 'attractive'. Of course how much you can make use of the additional information transmitted by the original audio depends on your experience with listening to japanese versions and I know that most people won't profit from it as much as I do, but stuff like hearing honorifics is pretty basic and can already make a big difference when you can fill in all the connotations in your head instead of just hearing one inconclusive translations ('Mister', nothing, 'bro' etc...) and not knowing what they originally said. Because I've seen the same honorifcs being translated in at least 3 or 4 different ways, probably even more, some of them really feeling extremely awkward. I just don't want to have to be in a position where I have to 100% trust the translation without being able to hear for myself and dubs create exactly that kind of situation while subs don't. It's really that simple. It's not about reaching 100% accuracy, you can never do that if you're not a native speaker. Heck, my english is better than that of many native speakers but I still wouldn't say I have 100% accuracy when I watch american movies or series in their original versions. But I sure as heck come a lot closer than if I watched a german dub, and it's the same for anime. I want to have as accurate of an experience as possible even if I know it's never gonna be 100%. This is not a black and white issue where either you get 100% or it doesn't matter at all, at least for me it isn't. It's a gradual scale and it's undeniable that subs provide more and better options of combating the inherent issue of stuff being lost in translation. I'm pretty sure I wasn't making any claims of 100% accuracy with subs, just claims of having more accuracy than only listening to the dub. |
AlcoholicideNov 30, 2019 1:10 PM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Peaceful_Critic said: @YossaRedMage The voice acting in dubs is awful. If someone prefer dubs then they probably don't have a very good ear for voice acting. Or they have a slow reading speed so can't keep up with subs, which is fair enough. But claiming dub voice work is anywhere near the level of quality in subs most of the time is just patently false. Yes, of course, because what is good acting is an objective thing, and it has been scientifically proven that Japanese actors are superior. I'm glad you agree, because any other position would be quite ridiculous. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
Peaceful_Critic said: @Pullman Oh, I apologize for the misunderstanding then. Yeah, that makes sense. I've heard all the things you mentioned, at one point or another. As you said I don't need to be fluent in Japanese to hear a name said at an end of a sentence in comparison to translated sentences putting a name at the start. I also do know some words like arigato, so I can pick up on those when they are translated. I see your point and reasoning for preferring subs, thanks for explaining. Yeah I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough initially but there is no perfect solution for the inherent problems of translations, but there's definitely some approaches that are more helpful than others. I'm a linguist so I'm fascinated with this kind of stuff and one thing I only recently learned about that I don't think was mentioned in your link is the concept of Evidentiality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidentiality It is grammaticaly realized in japanese but not in english or many other western languages. Basically it says that because you can never KNOW how another person feels, if you talk about how another person feels there needs to be a grammatical marker that marks it as second-hand information. 'I have a headache' is fine, but 'My friend has a headache' is not because you don't know that first-hand. I english you can kinda express that with phrasings like 'My friends seemslike /says/claims he has a headache' but in japanese it's an actual part of the grammar and they can't really express 'He has a headache' in that direct form. But that just as a sidenote because I found it very interesting after recently finding out about it. Tho it might just be interesting to a linguistics nerd like me :> |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: Technically, both versions are "dubs" (and this applies to originally-Japanese works as well) since "dub" just refers to applying an audio track to animation.You do know that Castlevania is a western series and therefore the japanese version IS the dub and the english version the original audio? YossaRedMage said: Not sure if ham-handed attempt at put-down, even more ham-handed attempt at opinion enforcement, or just oblivious to sarcasm.Peaceful_Critic said: @YossaRedMage Yes, of course, because what is good acting is an objective thing, and it has been scientifically proven that Japanese actors are superior. I'm glad you agree, because any other position would be quite ridiculous. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Pullman said: Technically, both versions are "dubs" (and this applies to originally-Japanese works as well) since "dub" just refers to applying an audio track to animation.You do know that Castlevania is a western series and therefore the japanese version IS the dub and the english version the original audio? Not sure if ham-handed attempt at put-down, even more ham-handed attempt at opinion enforcement, or just oblivious to sarcasm. That really would be oblivious. The person made a one sentence trite remark so I responded in kind. It was a fun but dumb little exchange. Why you make it a 2v1 like dis? On topic for a second, surely you can't agree that good voice acting is subjective? My last comment was meant to be jokingly flippant, but the sentiment is honest. It's a ridiculous thing to say what counts as good voice acting isn't at least more objective than subjective. Or rather... taking the issue of objecitivty/subjectivity out of it because that's a rabbit hole, you must agree that there is a fairly common concensus on what counts as bad voice acting. And dub anime is famous for being having bad voice acting. If you agree with that, then I don't quite see the point of your post other than making a hurtful remark intended to put down my funny joke. And if you are oblivious to the sarcasm in that then we really are wasting our time. Incidentally, you made a really good post in a thread I read today about how negative opinions from others affect ones enjoyment of shows. I almost replied just to echo the points you were making. And now you do me dirty like this... |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| THANK YOU SO MUCH! I love both dubs and subs and seeing dubs get so much hate gets under my skin big time. |
| I prefer the sub and want to experience it closer to its original intention, and find the voice acting very often better in Japanese. I can't bring myself to care too much about how others watch something and classifying it as "real", though if they did a particularly bad job, I will call out bad localizations when I see them, as even subtle things can have a significant effect on the experience. |
 I can see you |
YossaRedMage said: Sorry, it didn't seem to fit as a joke so I was confused. Pardon my bluntness.GlennMagusHarvey said: Technically, both versions are "dubs" (and this applies to originally-Japanese works as well) since "dub" just refers to applying an audio track to animation. Not sure if ham-handed attempt at put-down, even more ham-handed attempt at opinion enforcement, or just oblivious to sarcasm. That really would be oblivious. The person made a one sentence trite remark so I responded in kind. It was a fun but dumb little exchange. Why you make it a 2v1 like dis? On topic for a second, surely you can't agree that good voice acting is subjective? My last comment was meant to be jokingly flippant, but the sentiment is honest. It's a ridiculous thing to say what counts as good voice acting isn't at least more objective than subjective. Or rather... taking the issue of objecitivty/subjectivity out of it because that's a rabbit hole, you must agree that there is a fairly common concensus on what counts as bad voice acting. And dub anime is famous for being having bad voice acting. If you agree with that, then I don't quite see the point of your post other than making a hurtful remark intended to put down my funny joke. And if you are oblivious to the sarcasm in that then we really are wasting our time. Incidentally, you made a really good post in a thread I read today about how negative opinions from others affect ones enjoyment of shows. I almost replied just to echo the points you were making. And now you do me dirty like this... On topic: "Is good voice acting subjective?" At least in part. To some extent it's objective, with regards to simple things like excluding extraneous background noises and microphone/recording artifacts, if we exclude stuff that's made to sound intentionally "bad". Beyond that, though, the actual acting is subject to the choice of purpose -- what is it that one wants the voice role to portray? And the answer to this depends on the purpose. Overacting, underacting, deadpan delivery, natural voice, choice of voice timbre, excitement, cutesiness, hamminess, accent choice (and accent accuracy), even things like clarity of pronunciation and slurring of speech, are all tools, whose use may be appropriate or inappropriate, depending on the purpose. And the choice of purpose can be subjective. Fandom "consensus" is not a measure of truth, but simply a measure of popularity. Fandom consensus says that certain shows are good or bad, but that doesn't prevent people from feeling that they're the quality opposite to consensus. Similarly, if you read through this and the other recent subs vs. dubs thread, you'll notice people praising things you (or the fandom "consensus") find objectionable or objecting to things you (or the fandom "consensus", again) find praiseworthy. An example is cutesy voices -- some people like them, and like anime because it has them, and point out that English voice actors can't do them right (either omitting them or sounding somewhat stilted); other people dislike them, and prefer English voicework because it sounds more like the natural speech characters would make without that voicework trope...or, for that matter, there are even some people who like it when English voice actors (or technically actresses in most such cases) try to sound cutesy. Similarly, Japanese people generally aren't well-versed in English so when they speak English lines they often sound silly (between poorly-written language and a heavy foreign accent); some people find this quality a very fun trait of anime, while other people cringe at hearing it. And just because something is "famous" for whatever doesn't mean that it's necessarily true -- or, for that matter, that it's necessarily even a true-or-false thing. This whole subs-vs-dubs thing is a matter of preference, yet a lot of people seem to treat it as something with the weight of truth behind it and try to "debate" it as if it's something that can be proven. No, it can't. There is no universal truth to be found in the question "Are subs or dubs better?". As for English dub voice acting, I've found it's generally acceptable or better for me, though occasionally I reject or question it myself. Meanwhile, Japanese voicework is also generally acceptable too, but less of an interesting choice to me -- it generally works, but may lack that extra degree of expressiveness or vividness which really brings a story to life more effectively for me and engages me better. (It's a bit ironic to see people saying that English voicework is less "emotional", when I've more often had the opposite experience, among the few times I've actually seen both, along with at least several characters whose dub lines/roles I remember fondly because they had that nicely-done emotional impact.) Regardless of my preferences, I don't think anyone should be forced to watch any particular version, be it by publication availability or by being shamed by other fans into doing something. I have my preferences, but I still like multi-audio releases, so I always have the choice available to me to find out about the other version. Peaceful_Critic said: lol, I'm basically just doing what I want.@GlennMagusHarvey Thanks for the back-up(or at least that seemed to be your intention). If that wasn't your intention, then that's no problem either. You can do what you want. This eternal subs vs. dubs flamewar is stupid anyway. Give everyone dual-audio; let everyone choose. And let everyone experience the other if they want to switch. |
GlennMagusHarveyNov 30, 2019 8:25 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Personally I hate dubbed anime because it just does not feel write to me and they just don't do a good job. It's a fact that Japanese voice actors and actresses fit the role better because they are able to bring out the most out of their chracters but if you watched dubbed anime, then good for you. Anime is anime and can be enjoyed by anyone in different languages, we all have different opinions and we should accept that. |
| I will fully admit that I believe sub is better than dub, but I won't disrespect you on your preference, unless a dub watcher says that sub is not good at all or they just disrespect sub in general |
| If you love dub, it's your preference and no problem with that. If you love sub, same as the statement above. But we all know, deeply inside, that subs >>>>>>>>> dub. #Facts. |
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| Real fans learn Japanese to watch English Dubs with Japanese subs shanimebib said: When you watch dubbed anime, you are watching DUBBED ANIME. When you are watching subbed anime, you are watching SUBBED ANIME. When you are watching raw anime, you are watching ANIME. When you watch dubbed anime, you are watching DUBBED ANIME. When you are watching subbed anime, you are watching SUBBED ANIME. When you are watching raw anime, you are watching ANIME |
| youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 73 6f 6d 65 74 68 69 6e 67 73 20 6f 64 64 20 61 62 6f 75 74 20 6d 79 20 70 72 6f 66 69 6c 65 0d 0a |
| I enjoy both subs and dubs. I usually watch subs because they come out first but if something is being dubbed at the same time I'll watch both just to see how it is handled. I've been doing this for MHA and I enjoy the dub just as much as I do the sub. However, shows like Yu Yu Hakusho and Most Stories have dubs that surpass the sub and completely eclipse it. Anyway that's my opinion. I doubt anyone will read this post anyway. |
| “It is my perception that a true friend never relies on another's dream. A person with the potential to be my true friend must be able to find his reason for life without my help. And, he would have to put his heart and soul into protecting his dream. He would never hesitate to fight for his dream, even against me.” I'm level  on mal-badges. View my badges. |
| C'mon OP don't get so pissed over some dumb banter. Elitist attitudes exist in every enthusiast community, you just get used to it. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| I personally don't care about other peoples opinion. I prefer watching dub, but if only a sub exists then I will watch the sub, but I would rather watch dub |
| Shrek is the reason I watch subs, when I first heard him in english he sounded so different to the way I was used to hearing him that now I want to hear the original interpretation first before watching dubs. if the dub is good I usually end up just watching that because I like to multitask. |
| Don't listen to people who have anime characters as their profile pic. |
| There are some bad as hell dubs and subs are mostly better because the japanese voices sound much better due to bad dubs.But if you watch anime that doesn't mean it matters if you do it in sub or dub, don't know who the hell assumed that lmfao.Yes, in dub there are often changes made to the dialogue, but there are also changes in the sub since some japanese things just can't be translated accurately to english.So you do you, watch however.I'd still say raw jp stuff is the best experience, but I'm not fluent in japanese so I wouldn't know.Speaking from what I heard. |
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| While I do understand the hatred for dubs, they're actually super important for me. It's extremely hard for me to keep up with subs most of the time (ESPECIALLY faster paced ones. comedies are a headache) due to auditory processing issues, so they're almost a requirement for me. I'm still able to watch subs, but it just takes a lot of pausing and rewinding, making some episodes almost double the length they should have been initially. It's just frustrating seeing how many people think dubs shouldn't exist, because without them it'd be a lot harder for people like me to even try the medium :/ |
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beargolfer said: While I do understand the hatred for dubs, they're actually super important for me. It's extremely hard for me to keep up with subs most of the time (ESPECIALLY faster paced ones. comedies are a headache) due to auditory processing issues, so they're almost a requirement for me. I'm still able to watch subs, but it just takes a lot of pausing and rewinding, making some episodes almost double the length they should have been initially. It's just frustrating seeing how many people think dubs shouldn't exist, because without them it'd be a lot harder for people like me to even try the medium :/ One more thing without dubs anime would not of taken off in the west and we would not have all of these streaming platforms for it we now have why does no one think of this. |
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| I think you should just watch it however you want... do not even listen to them. I, personally like everything subbed from movies, tv shows to animes, other cartoons, games (like visual novels), but it's totally up to you, man! Just let them talk. |
| "Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.” ― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear |
IsaTheKid said: I think you should just watch it however you want... do not even listen to them. I, personally like everything subbed from movies, tv shows to animes, other cartoons, games (like visual novels), but it's totally up to you, man! Just let them talk. Exactly!! There's so much bitterness towards people with different opinions, that everyone has to constantly fight with each other so their opinions will be the "right one". Like, bro....like what u like.............. |
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drstonefan said: I came across this issue in another thread so I wanted to post about it here to tell these "People" that it does not matter if you watch the anime Subbed or Dubbed you are still watching that anime. I watch mostly dubbed since I watch most of the anime I watch on funimation and if they have a simuldub I will watch it over watching the subbed version. It's called a personal preference. What these people have said just makes me angry what kind of person thinks this way. "People" is in quotes to avoid putting an expletive or an insult in the thread title It's less about "watching anime the wrong way" and more about the "you can't fully appreciate the work gone into it without watching subbed version" or, at the very least, that's how I see it. It all depends on the skill of the voice actors that make the dub better over sub, or even stand to it. Many anime never seem to get this right simply due to English voice actors never seem to put enough emotion into the scene--that isn't to say they are bad, it's more or less to say that the language isn't suited for this kind of content. For example, Midoriya versus Muscular: youtube.com/watch?v=hjWGrW7_ei8 (dub) Midoriya has enough emotion at first, but once he starts screaming the editor clearly did editing to make it sound louder than it actually was, and there's not nearly enough strain on his voice compared to the Japanese dub. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct8In_FAvZE (sub) This version has a lot more emotional when it comes to the language because it's raspy, it cracks, it's strained, and shows that he is using all he has internally to do the best he can in this life or death scenario. That's just one of many examples. While yes, it comes down to personal preference how you want to watch it--I believe that, unless you watch it in it's native tongue, you can't really fully appreciate it. It just sounds so much heart-wrenching in Japanese. |
Wicky_Dec 1, 2019 5:03 PM
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"People" who say watching Dubbed anime is not watching anime. ...are obviously not informed enough to comment on or advise you on the subject because they don't regularly watch both and ignore dubs so you can easily dismiss their opinion as a worthless, ignorant, blanket statement and move on. Talking to them is pointless because they'll either cherry-pick examples while ignoring all the good dubs or give you a list of reasons that don't really apply anymore and makes them sound like they spent the last 20 years in a bomb shelter. |
KruszerDec 1, 2019 5:07 PM
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
Kruszer said: "People" who say watching Dubbed anime is not watching anime. ...are obviously not informed enough to comment on or advise you on the subject because they don't regularly watch both and ignore dubs so you can easily dismiss their opinion as a worthless, ignorant, blanket statement and move on. That isn't entirely true. Almost every anime I've watched, I've also watched portions, if not the entirety, of the dub as well. Most of them aren't anywhere as good as the sub simply due to, as I put before, a lack of emotion in their voice--this especially shines true in moments of extreme stress or tension. There are a good portion of anime that I can thoroughly say are shit. For example, the MHA dub isn't inherently bad--it's just worse than the sub--far worse than the sub. As mentioned prior, it is partially due to the lack of emotion, but also due to the fact that the english language itself just isn't built for that kind of narrative. I have still yet to see a dub of any show that feels natural. That excludes American shows simply for the fact that it "feels American"--most of them are comedy shows aimed for adults. There are a few gems in this category, but I won't go on since the topic isn't entirely about them. To put it short, the English language, in most cases, simply doesn't fit the art and such of the shows. |
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AryanARV said: Kruszer said: ...are obviously not informed enough to comment on or advise you on the subject because they don't regularly watch both and ignore dubs so you can easily dismiss their opinion as a worthless, ignorant, blanket statement and move on. That isn't entirely true. Almost every anime I've watched, I've also watched portions, if not the entirety, of the dub as well. Most of them aren't anywhere as good as the sub simply due to, as I put before, a lack of emotion in their voice--this especially shines true in moments of extreme stress or tension. There are a good portion of anime that I can thoroughly say are shit. For example, the MHA dub isn't inherently bad--it's just worse than the sub--far worse than the sub. As mentioned prior, it is partially due to the lack of emotion, but also due to the fact that the english language itself just isn't built for that kind of narrative. I have still yet to see a dub of any show that feels natural. That excludes American shows simply for the fact that it "feels American"--most of them are comedy shows aimed for adults. There are a few gems in this category, but I won't go on since the topic isn't entirely about them. To put it short, the English language, in most cases, simply doesn't fit the art and such of the shows. You can just as easily say something similar in reverse but it's all personal preference. For instance, I think a lot of shows actually benefit from a dub that tones it down a bit and reigns in the mellodrama. A lot of Japanese stuff feels overacted and occasionally features voice actors (usually actresses actually) or performances I find annoying. Then there's the bad English, coming out the mouths of Japanese VA whose characters are supposed to be fluent native English speakers which just doesn't make sense. That kind of stuff just breaks my immersion. Also Japanese dialog is often lazy. I'd welcome some changes in a dub if it meant character X saying/screaming character Y's name for the 10th time in the episode was replaced with some more constructive relevant dialog. Anyhow point is which one is better is different for each show not a "this format is always better" situation. I may like the dub better for this one, or the sub for that one, and this other one didn't even give me a choice of options. Plus even if it's different that just lets me enjoy the same show TWICE (possibly 3 times if there's a Spanish track.). |
KruszerDec 1, 2019 5:56 PM
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach" |
AryanARV said: Like I mentioned above, I find it a bit ironic when people say that dub voicework lacks emotion -- because something that I enjoy dubs is their greater potential to bring out the emotion of a story for me.Kruszer said: ...are obviously not informed enough to comment on or advise you on the subject because they don't regularly watch both and ignore dubs so you can easily dismiss their opinion as a worthless, ignorant, blanket statement and move on. That isn't entirely true. Almost every anime I've watched, I've also watched portions, if not the entirety, of the dub as well. Most of them aren't anywhere as good as the sub simply due to, as I put before, a lack of emotion in their voice--this especially shines true in moments of extreme stress or tension. There are a good portion of anime that I can thoroughly say are shit. For example, the MHA dub isn't inherently bad--it's just worse than the sub--far worse than the sub. As mentioned prior, it is partially due to the lack of emotion, but also due to the fact that the english language itself just isn't built for that kind of narrative. I have still yet to see a dub of any show that feels natural. That excludes American shows simply for the fact that it "feels American"--most of them are comedy shows aimed for adults. There are a few gems in this category, but I won't go on since the topic isn't entirely about them. To put it short, the English language, in most cases, simply doesn't fit the art and such of the shows. I've watched a lot of things both subbed and dubbed, and there's been at least three times where I watched something subbed, didn't really get into it, then watched it dubbed and liked it more. If you're curious, they are: * Asterisk War - watched first season subbed, meant to watch second season but largely forgot about it, then watched first season dubbed much later and finished second season dubbed and I quite enjoyed the ride. The dub accomplished various things the sub didn't, such as making Saya my favorite character thanks to her amusingly deadpan delivery (whereas she was just sorta a vaguely cute, vaguely boring part of the harem when I watched the sub), and making me remember the homeroom teacher (a minor character who has an awesome scene calling out Saya in the dub, and a less awesome version in the sub). * You're Under Arrest - I tried watching the OVA subbed first. It was just sorta there. I later returned to it but checked out the dub. While the dub almost certainly takes liberties with the script (for example by mentioning a U.S. politician), it also really brought to life the wacky comedic police department vibe for me, much more than the sub did, and made it a lot more enjoyable. * Four Rhythm Across the Blue - I watched most of this series subbed, on a friend's recommendation. I even got through most of it, but for some reason, by episode 10, I just sorta forgot about it and drifted onto other things. Then, when I found out a dub had come out, I tried that for a rewatch much later, and the characters were brought to life so much more effectively. This isn't to say that I always prefer dubs. There are at least a handful of series where I know the dubs exist but I'd recommend the sub for various reasons, for example: * Stratos 4 because only the first half (i.e. the first season, of two plus other stuff (it's complicated)) was dubbed * Chaika the Coffin Princess because Chaika's (intentionally) broken English doesn't quite feel "off" enough (which it needs to, in order to deliver the full effect of her awkwardness) * Kannazuki no Miko because...I don't know, actually, but I just didn't like the dub voices and switched after one episode. Of course, "your mileage may vary", as always is these case with these things, so I don't begrudge you for feeling the opposite way about it. But I definitely disagree with the contention that English can't be used to deliver the voice parts of an anime series effectively. |
GlennMagusHarveyDec 1, 2019 8:19 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| People will use terms like objectivity and subjectivity at the drop of a hat when it suits them, but conveniently forget about them when topics like this get brought up. It's kind of embarrassing seeing some people talk about subjectivity in one topic but then actually lambaste people for personally liking dubs. People need to chill with telling people how to enjoy their hobbies, what's there to even gain when all we get are arguments and toxicity? It's not like people are going to tell themselves "Oh this person on the internet told me I have shit tastes for watching dubs, I'll watch subs from now on". That goes for dub watchers that shit on sub watchers as well. The fact that more people can experience our hobby in whatever way they're most comfortable with should be celebrated, not argued over. It's not like you see this shit in fighting game communities (at least, not as often and not as seriously) where people who use fighting sticks don't really shit on people that use controllers, why can't we be more like them? |
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| I like dubs, so long as the dub VA's don't insert politics in (such as the Dragon Maid dub). |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
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