| What would you guys think about Implementing a limit in Account Age to affect median Scores in the Rankings? Make Accounts that arent at least 2 Weeks-1 Month old unable to affect the median Score/total Score overall for Anime/Manga Essentially to Counteract this Insanity, somewhat, of People Creating new Accounts to Upvote/Downvote, give 10s/1s to random Anime Legit People can still score/track what they want New Accounts won't spike/affect/manipulate rankings After Scores settle people will be less inclined to manipulate scores ->potentially less Accounts->less work for Mods to ban fake/alt accounts we've seen for AoT just how many Accounts are created newly to manipulate the Scores, both with 10s and 1s maybe people would be less inclined to do it if there was such a limit/after scores settle they might not feel motivated enough i think it would help to reduce a lot of account creation flooding and it isn't really restricting to anyone what do you think? |
DenkiDestroy99XApr 30, 2019 3:52 AM
| add also the rule that you need at least 50 total anime completed (or lesser than that) in order for your scores to count on the rankings (that means you can still add scores for your own viewing if you do not meet this requirement) |
deg said: add also the rule that you need at least 50 total anime completed (or lesser than that) in order for your scores to count on the rankings (that means you can still add scores for your own viewing if you do not meet this requirement) yea i was actually gonna post that too, but didn't want to sound too restrictive not that it matters since i completely agree with you |
| Tbh considering the people who try to manipulate scores are completely insane, I can see them making new accounts like 1 month before their hated anime starts airing just so they can give it a 1 when it finally comes out xd But I agree that this would be a good idea |
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changelog said: I agree with this suggestion. Although I am not sure about the specific length of time, a "wait period" is definitely and urgently required. deg said: add also the rule that you need at least 50 total anime completed (or lesser than that) in order for your scores to count on the rankings (that means you can still add scores for your own viewing if you do not meet this requirement) I agree with you but this doesn't stop people adding random anime on their to list to be able to score them. while you are right, its also a lot more work and boosters/downvoters cant spam accounts it will take a lot longer for them, making them less inclined/motivated to do this so i think he has a point too not like there is any downside to doing both of these things |
Cladocera said: Still remember someone made an "improvement" thread a while ago with multiple suggestions, includes yours and #2 post. But that just doesn't work. hmm. thats overly complicated saying it doesn't work is just wrong making accounts have a low age based limit doesn't change anything about how the scoring system works most of the criticism in those threads was against the harsh requirements, which a simple age based system doesn't have but i think it would be pretty effective without being too restrictive |
Cladocera said: Still remember someone made an "improvement" thread a while ago with multiple suggestions, includes yours and #2 post. But that just doesn't work. just combining 1, 2, 3 suggestions are good enough already on that thread, i do not get why people dismiss it altogether when clearly there is a problem with MAL ranking system anyway |
| having an account age restriction sounds like a pretty good idea. Though I agree some minimum number of anime completed is a good idea, I don't know if 50 is the right number or if that part would work. Like other people have said, people who are dedicated to tearing down certain shows will just add a bunch of other random shows to their lists. Overall I'd like to see this implemented. |
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Cladocera said: Daphi said: @deghmm. thats overly complicated saying it doesn't work is just wrong making accounts have a low age based limit doesn't change anything about how the scoring system works most of the criticism in those threads was against the harsh requirements, which a simple age based system doesn't have but i think it would be pretty effective without being too restrictive Guess I should have said "useless" instead. Yes it doesn't change anything for the better, nothing at all. 1. Accounts that aren't at least X day/week/month old unable to affect overall scores: No matter how long the restriction time is, people can still make new accounts, after that time their scores will affect overall score normally. And it's not like only 'em account do the boosting/downvoting. Many legitimate users also doing that. And scores always change drastically over the aring time, removing boost account does not make things accurate. 2. People must have at least X anime on their list: You may have thought this would make them less motivated, but MAL import feature takes away all the difficulties. They can just import the same list over and over again. Guess what? Now it's worse because more shows will have score manipulated instead of just a few targeted shows like before. Don't let me start with that forum post count. ok that makes sense i say just remove ongoing shows from the top ranking list then (exception can be made on long running ongoing anime shows though) |
Cladocera said: Daphi said: @deghmm. thats overly complicated saying it doesn't work is just wrong making accounts have a low age based limit doesn't change anything about how the scoring system works most of the criticism in those threads was against the harsh requirements, which a simple age based system doesn't have but i think it would be pretty effective without being too restrictive Guess I should have said "useless" instead. Yes it doesn't change anything for the better, nothing at all. 1. Accounts that aren't at least X day/week/month old unable to affect overall scores: No matter how long the restriction time is, people can still make new accounts, after that time their scores will affects overall score normally. And it's not like only 'em account do the boosting/downvoting. Many legitimate user also doing that. Also scores always change drastically over the aring time, removing boost account does not make things accurate. 2. People must have at least X anime on their list: You may have thought this would make them less motivated, but MAL import feature takes away all the difficulties. They can just import the same list over and over again. Guess what? Now it's worse because more shows will have score manipulated instead of just a few targeted shows like before. i don't think so, while to some degree you are right, people can still make/create accounts is true you are disregarding the psychological aspect 1. people are less inclined to create new accounts in advance in order to counteract hype, because they can't see the effects of their manipulation in a short time(the further your goal is away the less motivated) 2. people will have a limited number of accounts to hate with in a short period of time causing overall a lesser amount of accounts that manipulate the scores ( they will/might call it a day with 20,50 accounts, also because of nr.1) by which you can avoid spikes and boosters/downvoters that react to particular short term hype and hate in order to counteract other boosters/haters 3. i don't see the problem in implementing this because absolutely nothing is lost by implementing this feature you are right about Nr 2 though , forgot about the imports overall since nothing is lost, im sure to some extent it will decrease the motivation of people boosting/downvoting without even being noticeable to anyone else |
Cladocera said: Daphi said: Uh "psychological", like that ever worked with trolls on the internet. You can not stop them physically and the only psychological method that may work is to stop feeding the trolls a.k.a not caring, which is oppsite of what you're doing. Tbh, as long as there's hype, there will be hatred, and there will be ant-haters, and the circle continues. You can't stop people from hyping, therefore none of the so-called psychological method will work.i don't think so, while to some degree you are right, people can still make/create accounts is true you are disregarding the psychological aspect 1. people are less inclined to create new accounts in advance in order to counteract hype, because they can't see the effects of their manipulation in a short time(the further your goal is away the less motivated) 2. people will have a limited number of accounts to hate with in a short period of time causing overall a lesser amount of accounts that manipulate the scores ( they will/might call it a day with 20,50 accounts, also because of nr.1) by which you can avoid spikes and boosters/downvoters that react to particular short term hype and hate in order to counteract other boosters/haters 3. i don't see the problem in implementing this because absolutely nothing is lost by implementing this feature you are right about Nr 2 though , forgot about the imports overall since nothing is lost, im sure to some extent it will decrease the motivation of people boosting/downvoting without even being noticeable to anyone else Nothing lost? Talk about that psychological stuff shall we? New users come to MAL and guess what, looks like their ratings/opinions don't matter because apparently MAL considers them newbies. Warm welcome I guess. what im doing? im writing in the suggestions thread, think any of those ever opened this thread? xD you have a point though, as in regards to the new users i don't think they would even notice, they can freely score what they want, it just won't affect the median Score i don't think they would care either way but apart from that i agree with you still, i don't think there is a harm in trying it and checking the data over the course of 1-2 years to see the amount of accounts generated and compare it its better than doing nothing for sure |
| An age restriction and a minimum limit to the number of shows would be good. Though, this won't have any significant affect... and will be quite negligible. However, both the ranking and the reviewing system needs to be improved in some way... deg said: i say just remove ongoing shows from the top ranking list then (exception can be made on long running ongoing anime shows though) Just because you can't come up with a way to improve the system, it doesn't mean you begin restricting it in a way you deem fit. |
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| @Cladocera fair enough i was mainly suggesting it because it might prove to be less work after a certain amount of time if the amount of accounts created goes down to a certain extent, besides its not about the 1s, its about the 10s if you look at the thread where illegit accounts are posted you see a lot more accounts that boost with 10s i think those are a bigger issue than the haters, its not really about the score, its about the number of useless accounts created all the time |
DenkiDestroy99XApr 30, 2019 6:25 AM
Maneki-Mew said: Does it change so much? They will create the accounts and let them rot until they are one month old, so they can influence the scores. It doesn't matter so much, if they affect the scores now or in a month. we don't know, id be curious to see the numbers a lot of accounts are created newly today/yesterday if they were prepared to hate/boost in advance they would could have done so fact is a slight limiter is placed whether / how much that would actually affect it is unknown obviously maybe it would affect 0% maybe 20% less accounts over a time period of X who knows just an idea i wanted to throw into the room |
| I don't know how much it'd actually change in practice but... I mean I don't see why not. It'd certainly help deal with some bots and troll accounts at least, and legitimate new users ought to have the patience to wait a few weeks for their votes to start counting (not like it's hugely important for them anyway I hope) Wouldn't hurt to implement at least |
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| Say we nullify their score until their account is a month old. A month passes. Their score is now valid. It literally didn't matter that they were barred temporarily at all. This thread exists because people have different opinions than you and you don't like it. You like an anime? Good. Enjoy it for what it is rather than what others also think of it. Ratings mean absolutely nothing because everyone has different tastes. You want to secure the site so that people can't waste their lives pointlessly manipulating scores that don't matter? I see two solutions. A paywall to use a majority of this sites features or requiring a phone number or something per account. Tbh, needing a phone number wouldn't even be an issue. Plenty of free calling and texting apps if you don't have mins and most children who aren't old enough to use this site (there are plenty here) probably don't have a phone. |
KatsutoSaki said: An age restriction and a minimum limit to the number of shows would be good. Though, this won't have any significant affect... and will be quite negligible. However, both the ranking and the reviewing system needs to be improved in some way... deg said: i say just remove ongoing shows from the top ranking list then (exception can be made on long running ongoing anime shows though) Just because you can't come up with a way to improve the system, it doesn't mean you begin restricting it in a way you deem fit. you literally contradicted yourself when you suggested restrictions too when you said this "An age restriction and a minimum limit to the number of shows would be good." |
deg said: KatsutoSaki said: An age restriction and a minimum limit to the number of shows would be good. Though, this won't have any significant affect... and will be quite negligible. However, both the ranking and the reviewing system needs to be improved in some way... Just because you can't come up with a way to improve the system, it doesn't mean you begin restricting it in a way you deem fit. you literally contradicted yourself when you suggested restrictions too when you said this "An age restriction and a minimum limit to the number of shows would be good." Sure I said that, but at the same time I did say it'd prove to be insignificant and have a negligible effect. Since all that would be doing is increase some hassle for creating more illegitimate accounts. Unlike me, you suggested to exclude the ongoing shows from the ranking system. While I suggested to limit the number of accounts affecting the score, you suggested to directly limit the ranking system itself. So I don't see how am I contradicting myself. |
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KatsutoSaki said: deg said: you literally contradicted yourself when you suggested restrictions too when you said this "An age restriction and a minimum limit to the number of shows would be good." Sure I said that, but at the same time I did say it'd prove to be insignificant and have a negligible effect. Since all that would be doing is increase some hassle for creating more illegitimate accounts. Unlike me, you suggested to exclude the ongoing shows from the ranking system. While I suggested to limit the number of accounts affecting the score, you suggested to directly limit the ranking system itself. So I don't see how am I contradicting myself. it boils down to direct or indirect restrictions then as already pointed out the indirect restrictions that was proposed are useless explained on that same post you quoted mine |
deg said: KatsutoSaki said: Sure I said that, but at the same time I did say it'd prove to be insignificant and have a negligible effect. Since all that would be doing is increase some hassle for creating more illegitimate accounts. Unlike me, you suggested to exclude the ongoing shows from the ranking system. While I suggested to limit the number of accounts affecting the score, you suggested to directly limit the ranking system itself. So I don't see how am I contradicting myself. it boils down to direct or indirect restrictions then as already pointed out the indirect restrictions that was proposed are useless explained on that same post you quoted mine Yes, even I said it'll have an insignificant effect on the same post I quoted you. |
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KatsutoSaki said: deg said: it boils down to direct or indirect restrictions then as already pointed out the indirect restrictions that was proposed are useless explained on that same post you quoted mine Yes, even I said it'll have an insignificant effect on the same post I quoted you. so your saying my suggestions and yours are useless then any other suggestion you can come up with then? |
deg said: KatsutoSaki said: Yes, even I said it'll have an insignificant effect on the same post I quoted you. so your saying my suggestions and yours are useless then any other suggestion you can come up with then? This wasn't my suggestion to begin with but whatever. A way to reduce the creation of illegitimate accounts would come first then. Since the whole issue stems from there, and the aim of this suggestion was also to decrease the impact of the illegitimate accounts on the score. |
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| I think that something like this or what deg said would be a good (at least temporarily) way to put a lid on the massive amounts of upvote/downvote accounts that are being made. I don't think it would completely stop them, but it would most likely slow them down. tl;dr: I'm in favor of it being implemented. |
    Dreaming 'bout long gone things;Days, on end, repeating infinitely. Like the inside of a never-ending dream, Whilst looking for the endless morn... Only to return to the dream again |
KatsutoSaki said: deg said: so your saying my suggestions and yours are useless then any other suggestion you can come up with then? This wasn't my suggestion to begin with but whatever. A way to reduce the creation of illegitimate accounts would come first then. Since the whole issue stems from there, and the aim of this suggestion was also to decrease the impact of the illegitimate accounts on the score. elaborate on your suggestion too afaik creating accounts require popular email services (ex. gmail, yahoo, etc) already and there is also a captcha in place i heard, so what more do you suggest to improve that? |
changelog said: @deg I wouldn't bother arguing with him. He doesn't know what he is on about and always misunderstands other people's arguments with a rude and condescending attitude. ye i find him rude too but i just got a lot of free time so why not lol |
| I don't think we need a waiting requirement, because in my opinion that would be to restrictive. I think we need a better account verification system in place rather then just an e-mail |
| Why not restrict accounts which aren't at least 5 years old? Now that would definitely kill the hype and account spamming. |
deg said: add also the rule that you need at least 50 total anime completed (or lesser than that) in order for your scores to count on the rankings (that means you can still add scores for your own viewing if you do not meet this requirement) I don't really like that idea because 50 animes is actually quite a bit if you are somewhat new to watching and I want to go at my own pace rather than feeling like "I have to catch up." As another person mentioned, the trolls could easily just put 50 random animes in their completed list in order to do this so you're not going to stop them from doing what they're trying to do you're just going to frustrate newcomers. |
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| Just remove the scores. It's not trustworthy anyways... |
| I like the idea in general OP, it might not remove the score boosting and downvoting but it could actually be used for the moderators to weed out this crap more efficiently before their deed has an effect. The 50 anime limit is also okay in that regard because it'll annoy (but not stop) the people doing this when they realize it was all for naught. Though, if that even is possible, I'd like a system even more that can track all scores of each MAL member and if there is a really massive peak at someone of scores 1/10-3/10 and 9/10-10/10 that all his/her ratings become nullified. |
| I haven't read the comments, but I think this wouldn't solve the problem. The same amount of accounts were being made, the same amount of low/high scores would be added. All that would change that those would have a delayed effect on the mean score. |
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| I definitely see what you were thinking with this one but I feel that this would be ineffective. The idea is to be able to make you list and score the shows as you watch. It would kind of miss the point and be unfair if peoples scores didnt count right away. TBH I dont think enough people have the time to make bot accounts to change the score of a show for it to matter. BUT it's cool that you have ideas on improvements! keep them coming! |
| Here is what I would suggest, instead of the 50 episode thing, which is too restrictive and unfair for persons that haven't watch that many anime. I would suggest that for example if someone rate the third season of a series a 10/10 or 1/10 but doesn't have the previous seasons in their list, their score will automatically not be included in the ratings without anyone realising it. What I am saying is to implement something like that without actually making it be known, because most of these upvote/downvote bot are not interested in lowering down previous seasons that is not a danger to their favorite anime they would only be focusing on the current season. Take a look at the downvote or upvote bots majority of them only has the snk season 3 part 2, and not the previous seasons. |
keragamming said: I would suggest that for example if someone rate the third season of a series a 10/10 or 1/10 but doesn't have the previous seasons in their list, their score will automatically not be included in the ratings without anyone realising it. Wouldn't work for many older francise. Also some are loosely connected to make it easier for a newcomer to get into without knowing the prequels. Some franchises has a bit convoluted history, like having a both newer series and asn older series or OVA as prequel. I don't think messing up the whole site just because the 4th season of a popular mediocre anime gets some hate worth the price. Accounts having a minimum number of ratings before they are included in the mean score could work better against manually made accounts, but it's much harder to fight actual bots. But MAL considers that gatekeeping (as if it's inherently bad). Maybe an activity basted system would work and accounts that were made, added some entries and never touched again would be excluded would work, though bots can counter that too. |
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Heldengeist said: keragamming said: I would suggest that for example if someone rate the third season of a series a 10/10 or 1/10 but doesn't have the previous seasons in their list, their score will automatically not be included in the ratings without anyone realising it. Wouldn't work for many older francise. Also some are loosely connected to make it easier for a newcomer to get into without knowing the prequels. Some franchises has a bit convoluted history, like having a both newer series and asn older series or OVA as prequel. I don't think messing up the whole site just because the 4th season of a popular mediocre anime gets some hate worth the price. Accounts having a minimum number of ratings before they are included in the mean score could work better against manually made accounts, but it's much harder to fight actual bots. But MAL considers that gatekeeping (as if it's inherently bad). Maybe an activity basted system would work and accounts that were made, added some entries and never touched again would be excluded would work, though bots can counter that too. Stop reading after you said mediocre anime, that was unnecessary. You wasted your time writing all that. Was legitimately reading what you were saying and taking you serious and then you just turn me off with that part, what do you want a argument in the suggestion forum or a discussion? Don't bother replying, because I will ignore you, you lost my respect. |
keragammingMay 3, 2019 3:40 AM
keragamming said: Stop reading after you said mediocre anime, that was unnecessary. You wasted your time writing all that. Dismissing everything because you disagree with one point (not even a point) says more about you than about me... You wasted your time replying to me and I never had respect four you. |
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Nightmare21st said: I don't think we need a waiting requirement, because in my opinion that would be to restrictive. I think we need a better account verification system in place rather then just an e-mail Pretty sure a Visa would do the trick nicely. |
| I don't think this will improve anything, but rather punish new users to the site. Trolls will simply create a bunch of accounts and wait until they are one month old to use them. Same with needing at least 50 anime or something before you can score, troll accounts will simply add some random 50 anime and be done. New users who don't have much time to watch anime will get punished by missing that feature for a while though. |
| I don’t think there is any real way to fix it besides removing currently airing anime from the rankings, which most likely wouldn’t work well anyway because a lot of users (like myself) take the score into consideration when searching for new airing anime that’s worth watching. The score always evens out after the show is finished airing, plus shows that are controversial enough to have a ton of downvoters usually have a lot more upvoters, so it’s really just a matter of waiting for the hype to die out. |
| you would need a smarter system in place that can tell legitimate users from bots and 1-time trolls boosting or downvoting a show. im not sure there is an easy way to stop them that actually works. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| I like the account age idea, but 50 anime watched is a little too much. |
keragamming said: Here is what I would suggest, instead of the 50 episode thing, which is too restrictive and unfair for persons that haven't watch that many anime. I would suggest that for example if someone rate the third season of a series a 10/10 or 1/10 but doesn't have the previous seasons in their list, their score will automatically not be included in the ratings without anyone realising it. What I am saying is to implement something like that without actually making it be known, because most of these upvote/downvote bot are not interested in lowering down previous seasons that is not a danger to their favorite anime they would only be focusing on the current season. Take a look at the downvote or upvote bots majority of them only has the snk season 3 part 2, and not the previous seasons. So how would this work for something like Barakamon where it later got a prequel season? Or something like Great Teacher Onizuka where almost 95% of all ratings would be made null because of the much lesser known prequel OVA? |
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