OkThisIsEpic said: Explain. What does conservatism have to do with this? Eeh, don't take it too seriously. I'm just stirring the pot. Though I think what I was trying to tell is already implied through what was written. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
mdo7 said: DaCraziGuy said: Argentina, probably a country you don't even know about hahaha. I heard about this K-pop fever for the first time last year. It may be older than I think, but no more than a couple of years. I still think is not that big here. I know where Argentina is, it's in South America. I know K-pop is popular over there, judging from Super Junior's publicity in 2013: They returned to Argentina this year and they got a lot of attention like they got back in 2013. And I saw several video demonstrating K-pop's popularity, these video are from 3 years ago: I even saw news broadcast from Argentina about K-pop: And why did this TV channel from Argentina showed this MV from Henry of Super Junior-M: I don't know where were you in 2013, but in K-pop has already gotten big in Latin/South America since 2011. Well, I'm not from Buenos Aires. The rest of the country is at a different pace compared to the capital city. I know only 2 or 3 girls that listen to them and 0 dudes (unless they are hiding that hobby) irl. Btw, I surprised that you know about Argentina hahhaa. |
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DaCraziGuy said: Well, I'm not from Buenos Aires. The rest of the country is at a different pace compared to the capital city. I know only 2 or 3 girls that listen to them and 0 dudes (unless they are hiding that hobby) irl. Maybe the dudes are hiding it, maybe they don't want to ridicule for having a yellow fever aka Asian fetish. I don't know how big Asian fetish/yellow fever is in Argentina. Maybe it's weird for an Argentinian male native to have a Asian fetish. DaCraziGuy said: Btw, I surprised that you know about Argentina hahhaa. Now why would you think that? Do you think people around the world are dumb when it comes to geography? Argentina sometime pops up on world news and current events. I'm not dumb, I've studied world culture and geography. Please don't generalize all people as ignorant on geography. |
| Its an interesting thing, I live in Texas and was a teen throughout the Selena years, and I can tell you that people, against what would likely be considered 'our ways' here, aren't really all that bothered by cultural mixing. We have a large number of people with Hispanic/Latin heritage, so mixing languages is just a way of life here, even for us non-Spanish speakers. Most people have learned to take words in context and assume a meaning, and if there is no context, i.e. sentences fully in another language, they just dismiss it and move on, figuring it wasn't meant for them. We also have a large contingent of Germans in my area (strangely enough I would bet there's nearly as many illegal German immigrants here as there are Mexican) and they tend not to integrate so well with local culture, some due to religion, some for other reasons, so when we see something culturally different, it tends to not be much of a shock. Then you have the people that immerse themselves in those other cultures. We have whatever is the Mexican equivalent of weebs here. People of all backgrounds just falling in love with old Selena songs and running around singing Los Lonely Boys stuff, and just totally digging on Cinco de Mayo and sarapes and Quinceañeras. No one thinks it's odd for a white person or black or any other race to be totally into Hispanic culture because we've been exposed to it, taking all the 'mystery' out of it. Society stigmatizes what it does not understand. And there are many places that are culturally locked, so to speak, where they are not familiar with even learning about other cultures in their daily lives, so they are quicker to notice people who are interested in anything other than local cultural customs. And yeah, you can go overboard with ANY culture, including the one you come from! Instead of calling out and making fun of those celebrating their own heritage, we tend to consider them 'patriotic' (in America, at least) and it can easily go way too far. Bottom line? Enjoy what you enjoy, and to hell with appearances and stigmas. Someone wants to bad mouth you for anime? If you don't watch, I PROMISE you they will find something else about you to criticize. Haters gonna hate. So weeb out, come out of the closet, marry someone of another race, do whatever it is that makes you happy (within reason and legal allowances of course) and the people that truly care for you will be fine with it. And who gives a damn about anyone outside their loved ones anyway? |
You can make me grow old, but you can never make me grow up! |
| because anime fans act retarded enough to get a social stigma? christ IRL i wouldn't even want to have to be in the same room as about 90% of you fucks. |
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mdo7 said: DaCraziGuy said: Well, I'm not from Buenos Aires. The rest of the country is at a different pace compared to the capital city. I know only 2 or 3 girls that listen to them and 0 dudes (unless they are hiding that hobby) irl. Maybe the dudes are hiding it, maybe they don't want to ridicule for having a yellow fever aka Asian fetish. I don't know how big Asian fetish/yellow fever is in Argentina. Maybe it's weird for an Argentinian male native to have a Asian fetish. DaCraziGuy said: Btw, I surprised that you know about Argentina hahhaa. Now why would you think that? Do you think people around the world are dumb when it comes to geography? Argentina sometime pops up on world news and current events. I'm not dumb, I've studied world culture and geography. Please don't generalize all people as ignorant on geography. Yeah, I wasn't trying to Say that you were ignorant. But my country is pretty shitty, so I asumed that. Besides, I've met people that though that Europe was a country. And I lost the count of how many times people said to me "taco taco burrito" or mexican. But just in case, I just said I was surprised without implying anything else. |
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| sadly no matter where there always normies to frown upon most other mediums that aren't culturally / socially the "norm" . Those are just hateful dumb sheep. They can be cancerous annoying. I mean often they even don't let people just peacefully enjoy own hobbies, they just find a way to ruin the mood, attack (in whatever method) . Issue is that "Normies" are usually In masses. And stupid sheep go with masses. But eh.. same way I hate quite a lot of normies activities myself. Mostly because it's stupid / toxic or goes against my principles. But I usually ignore them, unless they really start to get on my nerves. There is limit to patience. Moral of the story is. Enjoy what you enjoy. But no matter what your hobby is. If it's out of "normies range" your enjoyment will be attacked to some extent. |
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| Because most people perceive us as shut-ins that jerk off to drawings of underaged girls ...which happens to be accurate for the most part |
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Anime4Normies said: jal90 said: Uh, that's a bit condescending on your part. There's more layers than "anime just doesn't make you special" and there's nothing wrong about making being an otaku part of your identity. People, specially in the teens and young adulthood, often need to be part of something and form an identity. Otaku culture offers this to some, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, the same happens with music genres and groups. This whole text you wrote here is reasonable when the person is pushy and tries to force others into their hobbies and the way they view the medium, but for a large percent of these same people it's straight up shaming. If people want to cosplay, want to use fancy Japanese words in their daily speech with people they know or want to express how much they like anime in whatever non-toxic way it's on them, keep your cringe feelings to yourself and don't act like they are the ones who have a problem. "If people want to cosplay, want to use fancy Japanese words in their daily speech with people they know or want to express how much they like anime in whatever non-toxic way it's on them, keep your cringe feelings to yourself and don't act like they are the ones who have a problem." Yeah, that would work, if the question was "Why is there such a stigma about NOT being an anime fan?" but it's not. Just think about what you are saying; "I can act however I want, and it doesn't matter WHAT I DO, it doesn't matter how good or bad MY BEHAVIOUR is- any bad reaction that ALL THE REST OF SOCIETY HAS to my behaviour, must be society's fault." You're literally saying that , unlike everyone else who has to take responsibility for their own actions, IT"S SOCIETY that has to take take responsibilty for YOUR actions, for some reason (as if that was even possible). [And again- the problem has nothing to with anime. Watching anime is fine. The problem has to with THE WAY A CERTAIN GROUP OF PEOPLE CHOOSE TO ACT, AND THE FACT THAT THEY DON"T WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. Probably the majority of people who watch anime are fine- because they just see anime as another form of entertainment, like sports, or action movies, or whatever else, which they happen to like. It's the people who think their anime fandom makes them special, better than other people, and separate from other people, that are the issue.] You are literally proving the "I'm special!! The rules everyone else has to live by don't apply to me!" logic I was talking about. "If I shit on your lawn, and you don't like the smell, DON"T BLAME ME for the fact that you think poop smells bad!! That's on YOU!!" lol, yeah, That's not how it works, buddy. SOCIETY doesn't have to take responsibility for YOUR unacceptable behaviour; YOU are responsible for YOUR socially unacceptable behaviour. Those are the rules everyone else has to live by, you are not special; you have to live by the same rules as everyone else. (And if you really don't care if/why 99% of society sees your behaviour as unacceptable, then don't ask questions like this post. You should probably ask something more like "Please rationalise for me why anime fans should be able to act as repulsive and obnoxious as they want, and why it's always society's fault when the whole world sees our behaviour as unacceptable" (which is the question most people here have answered anyway.) No, I'm not excusing people who are impolite and act superior, but I am not swallowing your logic that equates being impolite and acting superior with showing your love for anime and your identity as an otaku in various ways that are completely harmless but you believe should be extinguished because of your own, individual feeling of cringe. Let people behave however they want as long as they don't interfere with the well-being of others, and that includes teens and young adults speaking as much fake Japanese in their circles as they want, cosplaying as much as they want in spaces they are able to, and showing stuff and merchandise. And don't excuse your intolerance in whatever broad generalization you want society to fit, because this is not about people actively damaging others, this is about people expressing themselves in ways you yourself don't like for whatever strawmanning reason. Explain to me why is it bad to seek a social identity through anime and the otaku culture, why is it different from seeking a social identity through music or through a sport like many people do and it's socially accepted. Because so far you haven't done much with this apart from holding your personal preferences as a golden standard and bringing the things that just bother you personally and irrationally as some sort of large scale societal issue. |
jal90Dec 16, 2018 2:09 PM
| Never said that prejudice doesn't exist. What I'm saying is that prejudice IS NOT A REASON FOR NOT LETTING PEOPLE EXPRESS THEIR IDENTITY. And that you calling these attitudes cringey is nothing but your opinion. It's not a fact. It's not set in stone. It's not something that should be avoided and people who like to engage in it should stop because of your opinion. Because in the end, that's what it is, no matter if you share it with 100, 1000 or a million other people. Neither of you have the legitimacy to invalidate attitudes that don't harm anyone. And keep dodging the music and sport-related identities to say that anime fans don't deserve to have a sociocultural identity of their own, and equaling such identity with self-absorbed bigotry for no reason except generalizing toxic attitudes. Edit.- Removed the first reaction that was a bit uncalled for. I'm still annoyed that you are talking about denial and detachment from reality while using "weeb cringe" videos as reference. |
jal90Dec 16, 2018 4:55 PM
| Mainly because the only anime which the general public know about are shows like Dragon Ball and Pokemon, which are targeted at a younger demographic. Also Hentai exists so yeah... I'm sure if people knew more about anime this stigma would go away |
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| Well can you blame them? I mean think about it... The kind of shit you see in anime... Let's face it bois... It's fucking weird |
| maybe its because its unfamiliar to most people |
Anime4Normies said: jal90 said: job Never said that prejudice doesn't exist. What I'm saying is that prejudice IS NOT A REASON FOR NOT LETTING PEOPLE EXPRESS THEIR IDENTITY. And that you calling these attitudes cringey is nothing but your opinion. It's not a fact. It's not set in stone. It's not something that should be avoided and people who like to engage in it should stop because of your opinion. Because in the end, that's what it is, no matter if you share it with 100, 1000 or a million other people. Neither of you have the legitimacy to invalidate attitudes that don't harm anyone. And keep dodging the music and sport-related identities to say that anime fans don't deserve to have a sociocultural identity of their own, and equaling such identity with self-absorbed bigotry for no reason except generalizing toxic attitudes. Edit.- Removed the first reaction that was a bit uncalled for. I'm still annoyed that you are talking about denial and detachment from reality while using "weeb cringe" videos as reference. The 'fact' isnt "anime fans ARE cringe"- you're right, thats subjective. The fact is "society PERCIEVES anime fans as cringe"- If you dont care about that perception, thats fine; You act how you want, people percieve it how they want, no problem. But you were denying that perception exists, saying its something I made up because of my personal feelings, which is just false, and denial of the reality of public perception. And society DOES judge sports and music fan groups like they judge anime fans. Football fans have a rep for being dumb and rowdy. Metal fans have a rep for being autistic, obsessive elitists (similar to the rep of anime fans). Doesnt mean thats true of every single football fan or metal fan or anime fan, but it DOES reflect the behaviour of certain people in those groups. And the massive number of weeb cringe videos is legitimate proof of the realities of popular perceptions, which you were denying (doesnt mean that *is* what anime fans are like, but it does mean thats how people *see* anime fans). Those videos show the exact answer to OPs question- those videos are the reality of how general society sees anime fans, which is why they get stigmatized. tbh this whole thread is an object lesson in why society has negative views about anime fans- 90% are people who cant even consider the *possibility* that the negative stereotypes might have something to do with the way anime fans act (like, say, people talking about how hot a 8yo girl character is, or about how hot fucking yoyr sister is, like i see here all the time), but then ten seconds later they're bitching about how stupid and mean "normies" are. Surprise surprise, if you act like you think you're special, and separate from normal society, and think you're better than normal society, then people will tend to see you as clueless, obnoxious and arrogant. (Especially if youre into shit that everyone finds completely disgusting and degenrate, like the 'loli' shit, incest, etc) Thats just human nature. No, this isn't true at all. Whatever YouTube compilation of "weeb cringe" you look for... this is for the internet community, for people who, for instance, know already about the term "weeaboo", which as a slur is very confined to the manga/anime fandom and those who specifically hate on it. People don't even have an opinion on anime a lot of the times, if anything something very general, like "it's drawings, so it's for kids", "it's Japanese, it's weird". Talk to whatever regular person and ask them about loli and incest in anime. These are stereotypes that require some sort of habituation with the manga/anime scene. Then again, I wasn't denying that prejudices exist, my entire point was rejecting your conclusion that anime fans should act in consequence. There are social stigmas against flamboyance, against having a very active sexual life (specially if you are a woman), against the clothes you wear or the stuff you like if you don't follow the standard. None of these should result in the person changing in order to conform. And again, you are all mixing stuff. I never condoned toxic behaviors. I never said that talking about "normies" and being bigots was okay, same as looking down on other music genres and fans in the case of metal fans. But cosplaying and using fancy Japanese words with your friends are not toxic behaviors, and neither are going to concerts, listening to music and talking about the groups you like. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with them. |
deg said: This was honestly my fav reply on this entire post lmao.just look at your pathetic avatar/picture of Spike from Cowboy Bebop, ask why you put that as you picture |
| Never experience it in my entire life outside the internet. People will judge you more in how you act in public rather than what you do for fun. Most of the stigma I think comes from fans acting in inappropriate and socially awkward ways. (which isn't different than any other hobby the stigmas and community we have trust me is better than most out there) Just act like a normal person and people won't care, leave you alone or may even be interested. I personally though have never experienced any stigma outside of online conversations probably because I am not in your face about it and have other interests. Honestly these days anime/manga is becoming more and more mainstream. Lots of people in my HS watched anime or read manga in public. They didn't really bother anyone and inversely no one called them out or made fun of them for it. The stigma is going to drop more and more just like what occurred to many "nerdy" hobbies in the past to the point it will gain acceptance. There is a reason the West again is looking back again at anime. |
BilboBaggins365Dec 17, 2018 3:29 PM
| Just for clarification, I have never personally experienced any hate for being an anime fan. I just see stuff online about it. |
| It's cool if you're an artist since there's a high probability that you'll run into another artist who likes anime. But outside of that social group, godspeed 'cause judgemental normies are judgemental. |
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| I've recently read a featured article which might have the answer you are looking for. - Why the Hate? Negative Perceptions Against Anime Fans I think that most people often associate anime, in general to lewd characters, with sexy and seductive appearances, and Japanese's more open-minded approach on sexuality such as incest or anything that we might think is not appropriate. With this perspective, most anime fans are classified as perverts or has dirty obsession. My thoughts on anime is the same as theirs a few months ago. I realized that anime has a lot more classification and it's unfair to judge them based on a few. This is probably why I think anime world is a new one for me, the one I'm willing to discover more. |
DaCraziGuy said: Yeah, I wasn't trying to Say that you were ignorant. But my country is pretty shitty, so I asumed that. Besides, I've met people that though that Europe was a country. And I lost the count of how many times people said to me "taco taco burrito" or mexican. But just in case, I just said I was surprised without implying anything else. Dude, Argentina is not shitty. Your country gained high profile because of these events: Falkland Wars Eva Peron Not sure if you know, but Eva Peron's life and activities in Argentina became a musical. Have you not heard of Evita? Dude, why would you think your country is shitty if it was responsible for this famous musical? Eva Peron got a lot of attention outside of Argentina that led her to getting a musical. Ethan_07 said: I've recently read a featured article which might have the answer you are looking for. - Why the Hate? Negative Perceptions Against Anime Fans I think that most people often associate anime, in general to lewd characters, with sexy and seductive appearances, and Japanese's more open-minded approach on sexuality such as incest or anything that we might think is not appropriate. With this perspective, most anime fans are classified as perverts or has dirty obsession. My thoughts on anime is the same as theirs a few months ago. I realized that anime has a lot more classification and it's unfair to judge them based on a few. This is probably why I think anime world is a new one for me, the one I'm willing to discover more. Ethan, it kind of goes beyond anime. Manga despite being more popular and more well-known in the west doesn't seem to be held to the same standard as western comic book. I'm not making this up, I stumble upon this article from a few years ago: Comic Alliance-MANGA IS STILL HUGELY POPULAR, SO WHY DON’T WE TALK ABOUT IT MORE? Let me quote this article, it show manga is probably stigmatized and not held to the same standard as western comic amongst comic book fans: Tom Speelman of Comic Alliance said: But despite its important market share, huge visibility and ever-rising, record-breaking sales numbers, manga is still largely ignored or scorned by the Western comics community — a term that here means retailers, readers, publishers and some creators — while the critical press and general public thinks of manga as something separate from comics. But why? Yet despite their huge market share, Viz is rarely discussed in the same terms as Marvel & DC. There’s a variety of reasons for this. “As big as Viz is,” Toole says, “Marvel/DC are much bigger, in terms of licensed merchandise, diverse product lines, earnings… Also, I think that publishers like Viz will always get short shrift because they're pushing a product that isn't American-owned.” “From a strictly business perspective, I don't know why [Viz isn’t] spoken about in the same breath as Marvel and DC, especially when it comes to comparing sales,” says Hicks. “But they are very different in that they don't publish non-Japanese creators, so it's not like young cartoonists can have a dream of working for them, unless they want to do translation, or move to Japan and work in the industry there.” Yeah that article give me quite a surprised, because why would western comic fan look down on manga since many comic book creators/authors have acknowledged anime and manga influence on their work. Also, did the same western comic book fans that look down on manga somehow forgot DC Comic had a manga publishing division which since then gone defunct. Did they seem to forget that Dark Horse Comic also publish manga in the US too? This last part of the article also got my attention, and this make me scratch my head: Tom Speelman also said: As to why comics fans tend to ignore manga, Aoki feels it's a generational thing. "Manga readers and anime fans in North America tend to be… younger. You can see that at any anime convention, where the average age of attendees tend to be teens to early 20s. Compare that to your average mainstream comics show… where attendees tend to be older, usually 30s–40s and up." People who now run the mainstream comics news sites and run comics shops tend to be older and may not have grown up with manga. Therefore, they may not have the same kind of fondness and familiarity with manga as their younger counterparts. OK that part doesn't make sense, those older comic books fans that are in their 30's and 40's would've been exposed to at least one or two anime/manga in their lifetime. these western comic book fans that are in their 30's and 40's would've already seen and been aware of Akira, and anime like I don't know like Cowboy Bebop, Robotech, etc.... They would've known Gatchaman from Battle of the planet adaptation. And I know plenty of older manga fans that are in their 30's and 40's and they were comic book fans and they transitioned into manga because of their exposure to Akira, and other anime that came out in the US in the 80's and 90's. That part I quoted from the article doesn't make any damn sense. The part about "People who now run the mainstream comics news sites and run comics shops tend to be older and may not have grown up with manga." That doesn't make sense because they would've also seen Akira at that time. They would've been exposed to one or two manga in their lifetime. Hell they would've stumbled upon that Toei Spiderman and would've gotten curious about Japan and that would've lead them to have discovered manga. Other then that, I'm not sure why manga are not held to the same standard like western comic book from fans of western comic book fans. But then again, if people stigmatize anime, then it wouldn't surprised me if western comic book reader look down upon manga, but I don't understand that sentiment. |
mdo7Dec 31, 2018 8:42 AM
mdo7 said: DaCraziGuy said: Yeah, I wasn't trying to Say that you were ignorant. But my country is pretty shitty, so I asumed that. Besides, I've met people that though that Europe was a country. And I lost the count of how many times people said to me "taco taco burrito" or mexican. But just in case, I just said I was surprised without implying anything else. Dude, Argentina is not shitty. Your country gained high profile because of these events: Falkland Wars Eva Peron Not sure if you know, but Eva Peron's life and activities in Argentina became a musical. Have you not heard of Evita? Dude, why would you think your country is shitty if it was responsible for this famous musical? Eva Peron got a lot of attention outside of Argentina that led her to getting a musical. Well, you got into politics with those topic. Not going to say that much, but ... Falkland wars o guerra de Malvinas: it was a thing made by the military dictatorship (illegitimate government) to stay in power a bit more and it's a really "controversial topic" here, the costs of the war and all the lives we lost there were a tragedy. It's not nice thing to be remembered for that imo. Evita and Peron are also a controversial topic, because they did a lot of things that are the root of today's problems in our country. Some say they were "heroes" some the "villains". Despite the romanticism some of the things have, real life is not that pretty. Don't get me wrong tho, I like a lot of things of my country but we have a lot of big problems that aren't normal and we never change anything. Education is really a huge problem here for example and the economy is in a real huge trouble right now, also the candidates for presidents aren't a encouraging sight... crime is also a huge issue here. So yeah, not cute topics to discuss, especially in a page about anime hahahah. |
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| It’s because the anime fandom/fanbase is toxic |
| Thing is, I am lazy, overweight, and cringy. My greatest sporting achievement is being the top 10 to run to the toilet after spending an all nighter sitting on my arse watching anime. So to answer your question, it's people like me who make you suffer on a daily basis. You're welcome. |
SomeEdgeLord said: I WILL report you from this forum if this continues. In real life, I am one of the coldest, unsympathetic, people you'll ever know, who's grown up in an even colder household, you really don't want me to break my persona, I know how to make people feel bad. YearnsforAttention said: hm who has 1656 friends on MAL that's right me bye bye YearnsforAttention said: I don't want your approval how many damn times do I need to say it I enjoy irritating you I am gonna do things MY way |
| 1. "Cartoons are for kids" 2. The biggest and most popular series actually suck and do not appeal to the average adult. 3. Incel fanbase. |
DaCraziGuy said: Don't get me wrong tho, I like a lot of things of my country but we have a lot of big problems that aren't normal and we never change anything. Education is really a huge problem here for example and the economy is in a real huge trouble right now, also the candidates for presidents aren't a encouraging sight... crime is also a huge issue here. So yeah, not cute topics to discuss, especially in a page about anime hahahah. Well I don't understand why you would think that Argentina is not well-known to the world. Did the Evita musical is not that famous in your country? I mean the musical is well-known in Latin/South America so I assume the musical would be famous in Argentina. So you're saying Evita the musical is not famous in your country? Classy_Cassy said: It’s because the anime fandom/fanbase is toxic Voldo said: 1. "Cartoons are for kids" 2. The biggest and most popular series actually suck and do not appeal to the average adult. 3. Incel fanbase. So is K-pop/K-drama fandom, yet they're more accepted in the US mainstream then the anime fanbase. So it doesn't make sense for anime fandom to be demonized because of toxic fanbase yet at the same time when K-pop fanbase exhibit similar toxicity, people accept K-pop fanbases. So is it double standard? |
| People tend to "dislike" things they don't know about, as most people don't watch anime they don't know what to perceive it as. So that's why they just label it as weird cause that one kid who's slightly different from the norm watches it. That's my take on it anyway. |
 Wake me up for another crusade |
mdo7 said: DaCraziGuy said: Don't get me wrong tho, I like a lot of things of my country but we have a lot of big problems that aren't normal and we never change anything. Education is really a huge problem here for example and the economy is in a real huge trouble right now, also the candidates for presidents aren't a encouraging sight... crime is also a huge issue here. So yeah, not cute topics to discuss, especially in a page about anime hahahah. Well I don't understand why you would think that Argentina is not well-known to the world. Did the Evita musical is not that famous in your country? I mean the musical is well-known in Latin/South America so I assume the musical would be famous in Argentina. So you're saying Evita the musical is not famous in your country? Yes, it is famous here. I didn't knew that one musical could make a country famous tho. Besides all that, I was surprised that someone knew such things about my country not the country itself. It's not the same knowing the name compared to the culture or events of a country. Maybe I wasn't clear but I was talking about that not just the name. |
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DaCraziGuy said: Yes, it is famous here. I didn't knew that one musical could make a country famous tho. Besides all that, I was surprised that someone knew such things about my country not the country itself. It's not the same knowing the name compared to the culture or events of a country. Maybe I wasn't clear but I was talking about that not just the name. So you didn't know how famous Evita, the musical was around the world? How is it that you didn't know that musical is famous worldwide? You know what, because of that musical that how's people around the world know about Argentina. But anyway, back on topic. I still don't understand how anime fandom is stigmatized, yet K-pop fandom is accepted worldwide. DEUSVULTs said: People tend to "dislike" things they don't know about, as most people don't watch anime they don't know what to perceive it as. So that's why they just label it as weird cause that one kid who's slightly different from the norm watches it. That's my take on it anyway. It still doesn't explain why the same people accepted K-pop. I mean K-pop (and K-drama) is widely accepted in western mainstream and get more coverage then anime is getting. That makes me wonder if Korean animation in the future would be accepted in the west from people that don't like Japanese animation. If they do, then a lot of anime fan will be angry at South Korea and probably end up becoming racist toward anything Korean. |
| @mdo7 K-Pop is popular partily because it's a trend. It's the "replacement" for all the western boybands that died out in recent years. And you probably don't have to worry about Korean Animation taking the future, as having one popular thing originating from one country doesn't mean that the other elements (in this case Korean Animation) will be popular as well. And for sure anime is getting more and more mainstream, just give it a couple more years and anime might become accepted by the west as well. Just look at shows like BNHA and anime movies like Your Name. They are big hits in the west and it shows that it can be done. |
| Wake me up for another crusade |
mdo7 said: @mdo7 It still doesn't explain why the same people accepted K-pop. I mean K-pop (and K-drama) is widely accepted in western mainstream and get more coverage then anime is getting. That makes me wonder if Korean animation in the future would be accepted in the west from people that don't like Japanese animation. If they do, then a lot of anime fan will be angry at South Korea and probably end up becoming racist toward anything Korean. I will explain you why Kpop is much more accepted around the world than jpop (and generally Japanese music). Kpop uses in most cases exactly the same chord progressions like western (American) pop. It's all about the same 4 chords. Kpop is basically a western pop with Korean vocals. Japanese pop (and music) uses way more complex chord progression (with very clear main progression and bass progression separation - in most cases basslines are completely independent - they are not simply following main "melody"). And by "way more" I really mean WAY WAY more. Average Japanese (let's call it) song is build on 16 chord progression (often a lot more - "Differences between American & Japanese music (chords progression example)" - type it on YouTube, it's only 3 minutes long - Marty Friedman is explaining it using simple words) while 99% of Western pop music uses only 4 chords ("the axis of awesome - 4 chords "type it on YT). Next thing is that Japanese music produceres loves genre fusion. They are able to mix Gothic rock with acid techno (polar opposites) and make it sounds phenomenal (try Yousei Teikoku - Gothic Lolita Propaganda album) or hard rock with cute vocals. Additionally Korean popculture is focused on sexualization and body exposition (like American) while Japanese popculture is focused on cuteness. Now think about. Most people don't like complex music or something that they are not familiar with, so it's only natural that they prefer how Korean pop sounds. Then add cuteness vs sexualization thing and that's the whole mystery behind it. |
rsc-plJan 10, 2019 1:11 PM
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
mdo7 said: DaCraziGuy said: Yes, it is famous here. I didn't knew that one musical could make a country famous tho. Besides all that, I was surprised that someone knew such things about my country not the country itself. It's not the same knowing the name compared to the culture or events of a country. Maybe I wasn't clear but I was talking about that not just the name. So you didn't know how famous Evita, the musical was around the world? How is it that you didn't know that musical is famous worldwide? You know what, because of that musical that how's people around the world know about Argentina. But anyway, back on topic. I still don't understand how anime fandom is stigmatized, yet K-pop fandom is accepted worldwide. Well, I think you missunderstood what I said this time, I know that is a famous musical that is even adapted in other languages. What I didn't knew was the scale you could say. Now leaving that aside, I think that the most "vocal" part of every movement tend to be the face of the community and in the case of anime fans they go overboard more times and in a bigger way than the K-pop stuff. The events, the cosplay, the culture around anime and the memes is a lot broader that a music genre so there are a lot more oportunities to do dumb stuff. K-Pop just involves music and maybe fashion. Anime/Manga involves weird cosplays/fashions, weird customs, wierd music, weird stereotypes, weird art, etc. The famous weaboos are an example of people that act like weirdos because they think Japan is like the anime. They try to act like anime characters and they are branded as weirdos in any place, including Japan. At least that is what I think. |
|
Jp124 said: I don’t tell girls that I watch it either lol. If someone asks if I do I will tell them, but I don’t walk around shouting it to the world. If i was to tell people I wacth anime they would say I'm a weirdo or a virgin, My close mates say it's weird that I wacth it ,I don't tell girls I wacth anime would be a put off to then. It's like a dark secret |
DaCraziGuy said: Well, I think you missunderstood what I said this time, I know that is a famous musical that is even adapted in other languages. What I didn't knew was the scale you could say. So you're saying that you underestimated how famous and well-known the musical? DaCraziGuy said: The events, the cosplay, the culture around anime and the memes is a lot broader that a music genre so there are a lot more oportunities to do dumb stuff. K-Pop just involves music and maybe fashion. Anime/Manga involves weird cosplays/fashions, weird customs, wierd music, weird stereotypes, weird art, etc. The famous weaboos are an example of people that act like weirdos because they think Japan is like the anime. They try to act like anime characters and they are branded as weirdos in any place, including Japan. At least that is what I think. Well here's the problem with your example. There are famous K-pop artists that "out-weird" Japan in a lot of way: All three of the MVs have gotten famous around the world and did went viral when it debuted a few years back. If J-pop and anime was too weird to be accepted in the west, then how did these K-pop MVs that out-weird J-pop was able to get accepted? DEUSVULTs said: @mdo7 K-Pop is popular partily because it's a trend. It's the "replacement" for all the western boybands that died out in recent years. And you probably don't have to worry about Korean Animation taking the future, as having one popular thing originating from one country doesn't mean that the other elements (in this case Korean Animation) will be popular as well. Well here's the problem with your example. Anything K-pop does end up helping other Korean merchandise and and also other aspect of Korean pop culture like for example uh Fox's remake of a Korean show, the Masked Singer. For the American remake, Fox used 3 K-pop idol to promote (and pander) for the American remake. And guess what happened, the American remake of Masked Singer got a big TV rating when shown on US TVs. And I guess Fox using K-pop idols to promote (and pander) to the US audiences must have helped the rating. Also did you forget Korean webtoon? Yeah those are getting a big audiences outside of Asia: Hallyu Power-Korean webtoons make big strides in global comics market Webtoons find audiences abroad: Services that translate popular Korean web comics have hooked international readers That alone proves that Korean animation could one day rival and surpass anime. You know what I wouldn't be surprised if people that are turned off by Japanese anime and like or love K-pop somehow accepted Korean animation over Japanese animation. And when this happened, people including anime fan are going to asked "why did Korean animation got accepted in the west, when Japanese anime failed and stigmatized?" It's the same thing that happened to J-pop, people wondered how J-pop couldn't break into the US market when K-pop idols could. Also even before One Direction broke up, K-pop was gaining a big fanbases. Do you remember Big Bang winning the MTV EMA in 2011? Remember the T-ara/One Direction battle a few years back?. K-pop was already gaining a lot of fanbases even before One Direction broke up. DEUSVULTs said: And for sure anime is getting more and more mainstream, just give it a couple more years and anime might become accepted by the west as well. Just look at shows like BNHA and anime movies like Your Name. They are big hits in the west and it shows that it can be done. For every good mainstream anime, a lot of lesser well-known anime don't get the same love like for example. How many casual viewers that watch Bleach end up watching Shakugan No Shana? How many people that watch Cowboy Bebop and Death Note end up watching Terror in Resonance? That's the sad part, just because 1 or 2 famous mainstream anime get famous in the US doesn't mean these people will end up watching lesser well-known anime. Here's a true story, I had a classmate in college who watch Gundam Wings and he collected a lot of the Gundam Wing toys/figure. But here's the shocking part: He didn't know about the other Gundam series (ie: Mobile Suit Gundam, Gundam Seed, G-Gundam, Turn A Gundam, Char's Counterattack), and when I asked him if he watched other Gundam series, he didn't even know about the other Gundam series out there. He didn't even know about Gundam 00, which was shown on TV (Syfy channel) at that time. He didn't even recognize this:  He only know this Gundam:  I'm not making this up, he watched Gundam Wing but didn't know about Gundam 00 (or any other Gundam series), or couldn't recognize the RX-78-2 Gundam. So moral of the story: Just because people watch 1 or 2 famous anime doesn't mean they'll branch out to lesser well-known anime. rsc-pl said: I will explain you why Kpop is much more accepted around the world than jpop (and generally Japanese music). Kpop uses in most cases exactly the same chord progressions like western (American) pop. It's all about the same 4 chords. Kpop is basically a western pop with Korean vocals. Japanese pop (and music) uses way more complex chord progression (with very clear main progression and bass progression separation - in most cases basslines are completely independent - they are not simply following main "melody"). And by "way more" I really mean WAY WAY more. Average Japanese (let's call it) song is build on 16 chord progression (often a lot more - "Differences between American & Japanese music (chords progression example)" - type it on YouTube, it's only 3 minutes long - Marty Friedman is explaining it using simple words) while 99% of Western pop music uses only 4 chords ("the axis of awesome - 4 chords "type it on YT). Next thing is that Japanese music produceres loves genre fusion. They are able to mix Gothic rock with acid techno (polar opposites) and make it sounds phenomenal (try Yousei Teikoku - Gothic Lolita Propaganda album) or hard rock with cute vocals. Additionally Korean popculture is focused on sexualization and body exposition (like American) while Japanese popculture is focused on cuteness. Now think about. Most people don't like complex music or something that they are not familiar with, so it's only natural that they prefer how Korean pop sounds. Then add cuteness vs sexualization thing and that's the whole mystery behind it. I'm not sure how tune, progression, and whatever you mention on your post has to do with how people accepted K-pop over J-pop and anime. Here's the problem with your example. Were you aware K-pop using J-pop's tune and beats in their music? Do you know G-friend, Lovelyz, Dreamcatcher, Orange Caramel, Oh my Girl? Their music sound a lot like J-pop, I mean go listen to this: And here's Orange Caramel: Their music sound just like J-pop and their music video are weird like on the same level as J-pop. And yet, people in the west accepted Orange Caramel. Let's not forget Dreamcatcher: Their music sound a lot like J-rock mixed with J-pop yet this group got a big fanbases outside of Asia as shown here: DreamCatcher’s Agency Responds To Quickly Sold Out Fan Sign Events In Brazil DREAMCATCHER sells out their Brazilian tour in no time (and fans are going gaga) Hell a lot of Dreamcatcher's music sound like they could be used as anime OP/ED and be released as anisongs CD: If the music in J-pop was a problem for it to break into the west, then how did K-pop girl groups like G-friend, Dreamcatcher were able to get popular in the west if their music sound similar and so much like J-pop? |
mdo7Jan 10, 2019 7:26 PM
| One time my buddy sent me a YouTube video. It was a clip from an anime I’m not familiar with, where this old dude is telling his granddaughter to come sit on his lap. When she does it takes you inside the grandfathers head where he is fantasizing about his granddaughters ass, as she sits on his lap. “This is what I think of any time you talk to me about anime lol.” He said. Anime is riddled with incest and sexualization of pre pubescent girls. So common is the young girl character archeotype, it was even given a name, loli. It isn’t exactly surprising the anime community is looked at in a skepticle light to be fair. Hentai Lolis Waifus/body pillows Incest Is it really that much of a surprise? That being said plenty of people will still judge anime viewers without actually knowing of any of the cringy aspects. Some people view it as childish. Some people are just cunts and look for reasons to judge people. |
| Lolicons are scum. BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica. Naruto is objectively the best anime ever. HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad. |
mdo7 said: DaCraziGuy said: Well, I think you missunderstood what I said this time, I know that is a famous musical that is even adapted in other languages. What I didn't knew was the scale you could say. So you're saying that you underestimated how famous and well-known the musical? DaCraziGuy said: The events, the cosplay, the culture around anime and the memes is a lot broader that a music genre so there are a lot more oportunities to do dumb stuff. K-Pop just involves music and maybe fashion. Anime/Manga involves weird cosplays/fashions, weird customs, wierd music, weird stereotypes, weird art, etc. The famous weaboos are an example of people that act like weirdos because they think Japan is like the anime. They try to act like anime characters and they are branded as weirdos in any place, including Japan. At least that is what I think. Well here's the problem with your example. There are famous K-pop artists that "out-weird" Japan in a lot of way: All three of the MVs have gotten famous around the world and did went viral when it debuted a few years back. If J-pop and anime was too weird to be accepted in the west, then how did these K-pop MVs that out-weird J-pop was able to get accepted? DEUSVULTs said: @mdo7 K-Pop is popular partily because it's a trend. It's the "replacement" for all the western boybands that died out in recent years. And you probably don't have to worry about Korean Animation taking the future, as having one popular thing originating from one country doesn't mean that the other elements (in this case Korean Animation) will be popular as well. Well here's the problem with your example. Anything K-pop does end up helping other Korean merchandise and and also other aspect of Korean pop culture like for example uh Fox's remake of a Korean show, the Masked Singer. For the American remake, Fox used 3 K-pop idol to promote (and pander) for the American remake. And guess what happened, the American remake of Masked Singer got a big TV rating when shown on US TVs. And I guess Fox using K-pop idols to promote (and pander) to the US audiences must have helped the rating. Also did you forget Korean webtoon? Yeah those are getting a big audiences outside of Asia: Hallyu Power-Korean webtoons make big strides in global comics market Webtoons find audiences abroad: Services that translate popular Korean web comics have hooked international readers That alone proves that Korean animation could one day rival and surpass anime. You know what I wouldn't be surprised if people that are turned off by Japanese anime and like or love K-pop somehow accepted Korean animation over Japanese animation. And when this happened, people including anime fan are going to asked "why did Korean animation got accepted in the west, when Japanese anime failed and stigmatized?" It's the same thing that happened to J-pop, people wondered how J-pop couldn't break into the US market when K-pop idols could. Also even before One Direction broke up, K-pop was gaining a big fanbases. Do you remember Big Bang winning the MTV EMA in 2011? Remember the T-ara/One Direction battle a few years back?. K-pop was already gaining a lot of fanbases even before One Direction broke up. DEUSVULTs said: And for sure anime is getting more and more mainstream, just give it a couple more years and anime might become accepted by the west as well. Just look at shows like BNHA and anime movies like Your Name. They are big hits in the west and it shows that it can be done. For every good mainstream anime, a lot of lesser well-known anime don't get the same love like for example. How many casual viewers that watch Bleach end up watching Shakugan No Shana? How many people that watch Cowboy Bebop and Death Note end up watching Terror in Resonance? That's the sad part, just because 1 or 2 famous mainstream anime get famous in the US doesn't mean these people will end up watching lesser well-known anime. Here's a true story, I had a classmate in college who watch Gundam Wings and he collected a lot of the Gundam Wing toys/figure. But here's the shocking part: He didn't know about the other Gundam series (ie: Mobile Suit Gundam, Gundam Seed, G-Gundam, Turn A Gundam, Char's Counterattack), and when I asked him if he watched other Gundam series, he didn't even know about the other Gundam series out there. He didn't even know about Gundam 00, which was shown on TV (Syfy channel) at that time. He didn't even recognize this: He only know this Gundam: I'm not making this up, he watched Gundam Wing but didn't know about Gundam 00 (or any other Gundam series), or couldn't recognize the RX-78-2 Gundam. So moral of the story: Just because people watch 1 or 2 famous anime doesn't mean they'll branch out to lesser well-known anime. rsc-pl said: I will explain you why Kpop is much more accepted around the world than jpop (and generally Japanese music). Kpop uses in most cases exactly the same chord progressions like western (American) pop. It's all about the same 4 chords. Kpop is basically a western pop with Korean vocals. Japanese pop (and music) uses way more complex chord progression (with very clear main progression and bass progression separation - in most cases basslines are completely independent - they are not simply following main "melody"). And by "way more" I really mean WAY WAY more. Average Japanese (let's call it) song is build on 16 chord progression (often a lot more - "Differences between American & Japanese music (chords progression example)" - type it on YouTube, it's only 3 minutes long - Marty Friedman is explaining it using simple words) while 99% of Western pop music uses only 4 chords ("the axis of awesome - 4 chords "type it on YT). Next thing is that Japanese music produceres loves genre fusion. They are able to mix Gothic rock with acid techno (polar opposites) and make it sounds phenomenal (try Yousei Teikoku - Gothic Lolita Propaganda album) or hard rock with cute vocals. Additionally Korean popculture is focused on sexualization and body exposition (like American) while Japanese popculture is focused on cuteness. Now think about. Most people don't like complex music or something that they are not familiar with, so it's only natural that they prefer how Korean pop sounds. Then add cuteness vs sexualization thing and that's the whole mystery behind it. I'm not sure how tune, progression, and whatever you mention has to do with how people accepted K-pop over J-pop and anime. Here's the problem with your example. Were you aware K-pop using J-pop's tune and beats in their music? Do you know G-friend, Lovelyz, Dreamcatcher, Orange Caramel, Oh my Girl? Their music sound a lot like J-pop, I mean go listen to this: And here's Orange Caramel: Their music sound just like J-pop and their music video are weird like on the same level as J-pop. And yet, people in the west accepted Orange Caramel. Let's not forget Dreamcatcher: Their music sound a lot like J-rock mixed with J-pop yet this group got a big fanbases outside of Asia as shown here: DreamCatcher’s Agency Responds To Quickly Sold Out Fan Sign Events In Brazil DREAMCATCHER sells out their Brazilian tour in no time (and fans are going gaga) Hell a lot of Dreamcatcher's music sound like they could be used as anime OP/ED and be released as anisongs CD: If the music in J-pop was a problem for it to break into the west, then how did K-pop girl groups like G-friend, Dreamcatcher were able to get popular in the west if their music sound similar and so much like J-pop? Yes, that is what I did about the musical. I think the fans are the ones that makes the difference not the art by itself, that is why I named the weeaboos as an example. |
|
Anime_Emperor said: I hope the stigma never goes away. I feel like I am a part of a niche community. I feel unique and different for liking anime. I feel like if there was no stigma then more normies would like it. Then there might be less anime that I like and more anime that normies like. I would prefer no stigma and other people just leave us alone, but I prefer a stigma and less people liking it over no stigma and anime is more popular so I am not complaining. Uh, what happened if the anime fandom got pissed off and jealous over K-pop's popularity in the west. would you agree with them and justifed their anger and jealousy at K-pop's popularity? I don't see anything wrong with anime being destigmatized and being treated on the same level as K-pop and K-drama are getting in the US. |
mdo7Jan 10, 2019 7:29 PM
Anime_Emperor said: I hope the stigma never goes away. I feel like I am a part of a niche community. I feel unique and different for liking anime. I feel like if there was no stigma then more normies would like it. Then there might be less anime that I like and more anime that normies like. I would prefer no stigma and other people just leave us alone, but I prefer a stigma and less people liking it over no stigma and anime is more popular so I am not complaining. You feel unique or you feel that anyone who doesn't watch anime or listen to any j-pop music is a normalfag and will be deemed as an inferior being? This is why anime fans are brigaded as autistic. I've watched anime since '92 and listened to j-music since I first heard Kimagure Orange Road's op soundtrack and Akazukin Chacha when it was aired on tv. From that time every kid on the block watches anime. There was no stigma. It's only recently when the extreme side of anime fanatism called weeaboos became vocal via the internet. Every anime fan that functions well in the society is safe from this stigma. |
 |
OkThisIsEpic said: Actual Conservatives view everything that isn't geared towards having a well established family as a waste of time. Like instead of spending your time watching cartoons you can be researching shit that will make you money or expanding your family's influence.Explain. What does conservatism have to do with this? |
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