Tokyo Ghoul:re Chapter 173 Discussion

SethBigBoss said:
Amazing fight and amazing chapter.
For those who underestimate Furuta and that he should lose easily you have to consider that:
-He was trained like Arima during his youth
-His skills was praised by Arima
-He has the advantages of a half human+ advantages of Rize's kagune
-He is smart
-Kaneki doesn't know his abilities (same for the readers by the way...) so he has the element of surprise
-Nobody knows his Rc level
-He was able to defeat Eto, a SSS ghoul,not in the best of shape but still able to create a huge kakuja and wipe the floor with V's special agents.

Despite that I think now that Kaneki has released his kakuja Furuta is going to be slaughtered.

Aezeryel said:


Hairu was also trained in the same way, yet got slaughtered.
Kaneki was trained by Arima himself.
He has advantage of being a half-human. On the kagune side, Kaneki has the advantage.
If you remember, Kaneki is also smart, being able to learn how to fight simply by reading about it.
The element of surprise pretty much disappeared once he showed his kagune.
His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune. Kaneki should have a much, much higher RC level than him.
He did defeat Eto, but I've said a number of times already that was mere plot convenience. No matter how you look at it, Eto should have obliterated him.
The only thing in which Furuta has truly an advantage over Kaneki is trolling. No one can match him in that.

Aezeryel said:


Hairu was also trained in the same way, yet got slaughtered.
Kaneki was trained by Arima himself.
He has advantage of being a half-human. On the kagune side, Kaneki has the advantage.
If you remember, Kaneki is also smart, being able to learn how to fight simply by reading about it.
The element of surprise pretty much disappeared once he showed his kagune.
His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune. Kaneki should have a much, much higher RC level than him.
He did defeat Eto, but I've said a number of times already that was mere plot convenience. No matter how you look at it, Eto should have obliterated him.
The only thing in which Furuta has truly an advantage over Kaneki is trolling. No one can match him in that.

Varris said:
Furuta is a Washuu who apparently have so much power in their blood that they're kakuja from the moment they're born. It makes sense that being implanted with a kagune would make him stronger than Kaneki was at first.

SethBigBoss said:


Are you going to say that Hairu's skills weren't impressive ? it's seems like they all followed the same training but there are some who stand out, like Arima and quite obviously Furuta.
You ignore the fact that Arima praised his skills while still a child despite the fact that this single element shows that Furuta is impressive? ok whatever.
He has the advantage of being a half human, the advantage of being a washuu which implies having from birth powerful Rc cells, you add to that Rize's kagune (a washuu, powerfull Rc cells) and it's obvious that Furuta is damn strong so even though on the kagune side Kaneki has the advantage he must still be wary of Furuta.
Yeah Kaneki is smart but smarter than Furuta? I don't think so, Kaneki himself said it in this chapter.
"His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune" they have the same kagune yeah but like I said above Furuta is a washuu while Kaneki was a simple human at the start, so Furuta from his birth has powerfull Rc cells, an "natural born kakuja" so obviously his Rc level is higher than Kaneki's in the prequel.
He defeat Eto thanks to the element of surprise and that he's strong that's all.

I'm not saying that Furuta is stronger than Kaneki, I think the opposite but Furuta is strong enough to not lose easily.

Aezeryel said:

Not a full-blood Washuu, as are neither of the Sunlit Garden children. So far we had no indication whatsoever that any of the Sunlit Garden children had a higher RC level than normal humans, just that they had the speed and strength of a ghoul. And let's say he is stronger than Kaneki was at first. Let's put him on the level of Kaneki during the Anteiku raid. That still comes nowhere near Kaneki's current RC level and kagune manipulation level.

Varris said:
Rizes organ don't affect everyone equally. Kaneki has very few RC cells compared to Kuro and Shiro at the beginning too. And the Oggai we're weak as hell compared to Kaneki later despite not being floppys. The children of the garden are stronger because of an inbalance in there bodies meaning in a way they're incomplete ghouls. Meaning they probably had dormant or recessive rc cells or at least the potential to make more since they had the potential to be one eyed ghouls but didn't become them. Plus he's Rizes half brother so there's a good chance he was just more compatible than anyone else. We also don't know when Furuta got the surgery and what he's been doing since he got it. Theres too many possible unknowns that could explain it. Since the next chapter is apparently called "The being known as Nimura Furuta" were probably gonna have some questions answered.

Aezeryel said:


Oggai were created the same method Quinx were. Of course they were going to be weaker. Probably is just your assumption. I've already said we had no indication of that whatsoever. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Being her half brother doesn't have to mean much, considering they might have completely different blood types. I doubt he was going around eating other ghouls cause he would risk turning into an incomplete kakuja, triggering it during some fight. Even if he did munch on an occasional ghoul, again, his RC level should be nowhere near Kaneki's.

Varris said:
If your going by what we know then your right there's no way he should match Kaneki. But Furuta has always been a character we know nearly nothing about. Just cause something doesn't make sense now doesn't mean it won't in another 20 chapters. And in spite of how much stronger Furuta turned out to be than we expected his kagune still doesn't seem to be stronger than Kaneki's. For one it's much smaller in comparison and Furuta is just much better with a Quinque which gives him the edge.And Oggai are made with a different method than the Quinx. That little Oggai kid they capture tells them that. That's also why they can switch between one and two eyes.

Aezeryel said:


Furuta is better with a quinqe and Kaneki with kagune. Guess which one has the advantage in this case, a single, small, sword or several large tentacles?
Different, but it was still base off the Quinx creation method, considering they had the frames as well.

Z4k said:
I've been waiting for this moment for so long. We should have gotten this Kaneki after he defeated Arima but no, Ishida had to turn him into a literal retard for 80 chapters to get the story to this point. It's not like Ishida has lost his touch but it's his stupid obsession with parallels and already havng the final chapter already set, which resulted in tons of side characters getting shafted in the process, that hurt :re so far.

What's done is done. Now Ishida only needs to get rid of Furata.

SethBigBoss said:


Are you going to say that Hairu's skills weren't impressive ? it's seems like they all followed the same training but there are some who stand out, like Arima and quite obviously Furuta.
You ignore the fact that Arima praised his skills while still a child despite the fact that this single element shows that Furuta is impressive? ok whatever.
He has the advantage of being a half human, the advantage of being a washuu which implies having from birth powerful Rc cells, you add to that Rize's kagune (a washuu, powerfull Rc cells) and it's obvious that Furuta is damn strong so even though on the kagune side Kaneki has the advantage he must still be wary of Furuta.
Yeah Kaneki is smart but smarter than Furuta? I don't think so, Kaneki himself said it in this chapter.
"His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune" they have the same kagune yeah but like I said above Furuta is a washuu while Kaneki was a simple human at the start, so Furuta from his birth has powerfull Rc cells, an "natural born kakuja" so obviously his Rc level is higher than Kaneki's in the prequel.
He defeat Eto thanks to the element of surprise and that he's strong that's all.

I'm not saying that Furuta is stronger than Kaneki, I think the opposite but Furuta is strong enough to not lose easily.

Cyborg_Dragon said:
Who did it better?

Kaneki

Guts

Saitama

Gintoki

Cloe900311 said:
I wouldn't be very sad if Kaneki were to die... I don't think Kaneki would die since he's the main character, but I would be sad for Hide if Kaneki were to die because the poor boy would lose his best friend. :(

Kaneki will probably win in this battle against Furuta...

Varris said:
Worked pretty well for Arima.

Aezeryel said:


Considering Hairu got killed by a S? rated ghoul, and Arima outmatched three SS~ rated ghouls, not so impressive. Arima was still far above Furuta, and yet Kaneki managed to defeat him.
He said "His form is quite good".... That doesn't suddenly make Furuta a fighting genius.
As I've said in another comment, we had no indication that half humans had a higher RC level, meaning it would have no effect on implanted kagune.
I never said he was smarter than Furuta, just that he was smart.
Again, being half human doesn't mean higher RC level.In fact, it should be impossible for them to have higher RC level than ordinary humans. Why? Because we saw what happened to ordinary humans who had higher RC level than they should have (Shirazu's sister). Half humans/demi-humans don't have a kakohou to store that excess of RC cells, which would mean that the same thing should happen to them as well. We even have Saiko, a Quinx being affected by that.
Element of surprise, huh. I've already proven that Eto should have won in another thread, but I'll entertain you as well. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune, the element of surprise was completely gone, cause Eto knew exactly what type of kagune it was and what it was capable of. Second argument - RC suppressants. Despite being under the suppressants, she managed to whip out an enormous kakuja just from a bit of a food (her editor). Now, she had dozens of dead V agents lying around which she could have eaten. Argument no. 3 - intelligence. Eto was far smarter than Furuta, proven by being a best-selling author, finding Kanou's hideout, figuring out Furuta was a Clown and working with Kanou, being far more proficient in kagune manipulation, i.e. she managed to create a semi-detachable kagune. Final argument - Eto's speed. As we saw in the prequel, Eto was fast enough that not even other ghouls could react to her speed (Banjou and Yasuhisa sisters). Even taking into consideration that Furuta was possibly faster than them, Eto should still have been far faster than him, and along with the other arguments that I provided that puts her in a more than likely position to win.
And you do realize Kaneki could have simply killed Furuta at the beginning of the fight instead of merely taking his mask off, which would count as the element of surprise you are so insistent on?

Shicchi said:

Ah true. Actually I don't care if Kaneki dies, only sad for Hide but he can move on. Not that Kaneki will die though. I fear for Hide's life instead. Unlike Kaneki, he got no main character armor nor plot armor.

OT:
This chapter is better because at least I got Furuta's flashback and his antics always entertaining. I want to see both fighting all out and beat each other so bad before Kaneki ultimately win.
I'm still rooting for Furuta here even though the winner is basically decided *shrug*

Cloe900311 said:
It’s sad that we’ve grown to not care for Kaneki... :/ In my eyes, Kaneki is a passive character who needs a break; he constantly places his motivation or reason for living onto others, rather than living for himself. (Maybe this is how Kaneki and Touka are alike; Touka passively waited for Kaneki to return through :re (even though Kaneki was already Haise killing ghouls + they never had a promise or officially dated and she was surprisingly not very mad at him for not explaining his disapprance much earlier), instead of pursuing her dream as as a teacher -> living for herself).

Poor Hide... The boy devoted at least two years of his life (his disapprance as Scarecrow most of this sequel) to Kaneki. It may be difficult for Hide to move on from Kaneki, since Kaneki is such a significant person to him... I hope Hide doesn’t die since I want him to be happy. It’s not fair that Hide got half his face ripped off by Kaneki and spent years of his life digging for information, only to have a (tragic) death in the end... >< At least Hide is contributing to the CCG and ghoul collaboration that is taking place right now, so he’s contributing to recusing the world. Maybe Hide could become a detective, once this issue gets resolved.

I agree with you regarding Furuta. This chapter was a little more interesting for me because of Furuta’s flashback and he’s unpredictable, which makes him entertaining to read. :) I also want Furuta to win... LOL, is that hypocritical since I also don’t want Kaneki to die for Hide’s sake? :P

SethBigBoss said:


What makes you say that Arima was far above Furuta ? Because until now we didn't know what Furuta was capable of, plus the fact that Kaneki (without his kakuja) struggle against him means he's not THAT far from Arima.
The fact that he praised his skills shows that he was strong enough to stand out in the eyes of a genius like Arima, and in general the more you train the more you become strong so it's quite possible that with the time Furuta has become a fighting genius.
But Furuta isn't just a ordinary half human, he's a washuu so he has the genetic mutation unlike a ordinary half human from a simple human and a ghoul, and it's not because he's not a pure blood that the genetics would have completely disappeared so he has from the birth powerfull Rc cells, maybe not as a pure blood but still. Half humans are registered as ghouls when passing through the Rc Scan Gates so that's means despite the fact to not have a kakuhou the Rc scan gates would still react to them because of their Rc cells ( because the majority of half humans are illegitimate children from the Washuu so they have higher rc cells level than humans) , that's why the gates have been modified. Because why the gates would react to them if their rc levels is like humans's rc level ?That doesn't make sense.

First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune Eto's kakuja was immediately destroyed, so do you think that under the effect of the rc suppressant and almost without food she would have been able to make another enormous kakuja? Probably not, it was the biggest kakuja we've ever seen with Eto it's impossible that she was able to make another one just with a paté that Furuta gave her before.
Secondly now that her kakuja was destroyed do you really think that she was able to defend herserf against Furuta ? Probably not, Furuta didn't seem to have really suffered against her. Like Roma once she loses her kakuja she is much more vulnerable.
Thirdly, intelligence, both are smart, Furuta was able to infiltrate clowns, was able to manipulate the CCG to move from rank 1 investigator to the head of the ccg and so plan the massacre of ghouls, to carry out his plan concerning the dragon's stuff and that from the start of TG.
Eto was omnibulated by the fact to kill Furuta that's maybe why she didn't think about eating corpses on the ground or maybe Furuta didn't allow her to do it or whatever, because like you said Eto is smart and I don't think she would be foolish enough to eat while she has an enemy of whom she knows nothing in front of her.
So yeah Furuta won because of the element of surprise because as soon as he had succeeded to destroy Eto's kakuja the fight was already done. Even if you say that she should have been able to defend herself without kakuja like against Karen it would not have been enough against Rize's kagune.
If Furuta and Eto fight again Eto would probably win but in the circumstances of her fight against Furuta her defeat makes sense

Yeah I agree Kaneki could have won but he didn't do it that's why now he's forced to take out his kakuja because Furuta is that strong.

Aezeryel said:


And so was Hairu, yet she showed nothing remarkable despite her "powerful" bloodline. You seem to have formed a misconception. RC cells are not powerful or weak. What matters is the cell count.
Back to my original point, it's completely irrelevant what was Furuta's RC level before or after the surgery. After the current events it cannot come even close to Kaneki's.

Of course she wouldn't be able to create another one. I never said she should do that. That would be incredibly stupid thing to do, especially for someone as intelligent as Eto. She would definitely be able to defend herself long enough to eat some of the dead V agents and restore her RC cells. Furuta "creating" the dragon Kaneki is pure bullshit, cause that literally required him to be able to see in the future. Nope, completely wrong. Eto never let rage take control of her, cause she's not stupid enough to let herself be consumed by rage simply because of her respect towards her editor. "Of whom she knows nothing about"... dear God. I already said she knew he was a Clown, she probably knew he was a half-human as well, and she knew exactly what kind of kagune did he have. How does that amount to knowing nothing about him?
With the level of kagune manipulation Eto could have easily produced more tentacles than Furuta could, so yeah, she could have defended against his/Rize's kagune.
And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed. Everyone seems to do that for some reason....

Shicchi said:

IKR. Tbh Hide also living for other's sake and not for himself like,
- Infiltrating CCG and spying on dangerous ghouls for who's sake?
- Getting his face chomped on for who's sake?
- Spending years hiding as Scarecrow for who's sake?
- And now still by Kaneki's side till the very end
Isn't he like Kaneki's guardian or something u///u
But then again we never know what Hide's really want (unlike Touka who clearly had a goal, that is to be a teacher).
But yeah, ultimately at least he did contribute to unifying human and ghoul.
BUT I SWEAR IF HIDE DIES FOR KANEKI OR SMTH. OR WORSE, FOR HIS WIFE AND UNBORN CHILD.
If that day do come, I'll stop reading tg for sure. Not that it matter much anyway to Ishida haha *bitterlaugh*

And if Kaneki dies, Hide would be devastated ofc, like, you know, as Kaneki's guardian, he makes it his priority, his goal, so far, to protect Kaneki, and if he dies, he would be devastated. Not sure how he would cope since we haven't seen any negative emotion from Hide so far, always looked cheerful and optimistic. That's what I love about him I guess. He is seriously the only sun shine left in TG world haha. But I really do want to see more emotion from him.

Actually deep down, I don't care if Kaneki win or lose, dies or survived, I just don't want Furuta to disappear from TG haha XD

Shicchi said:

IKR. Tbh Hide also living for other's sake and not for himself like,
- Infiltrating CCG and spying on dangerous ghouls for who's sake?
- Getting his face chomped on for who's sake?
- Spending years hiding as Scarecrow for who's sake?
- And now still by Kaneki's side till the very end
Isn't he like Kaneki's guardian or something u///u
But then again we never know what Hide's really want (unlike Touka who clearly had a goal, that is to be a teacher).
But yeah, ultimately at least he did contribute to unifying human and ghoul.
BUT I SWEAR IF HIDE DIES FOR KANEKI OR SMTH. OR WORSE, FOR HIS WIFE AND UNBORN CHILD.
If that day do come, I'll stop reading tg for sure. Not that it matter much anyway to Ishida haha *bitterlaugh*

And if Kaneki dies, Hide would be devastated ofc, like, you know, as Kaneki's guardian, he makes it his priority, his goal, so far, to protect Kaneki, and if he dies, he would be devastated. Not sure how he would cope since we haven't seen any negative emotion from Hide so far, always looked cheerful and optimistic. That's what I love about him I guess. He is seriously the only sun shine left in TG world haha. But I really do want to see more emotion from him.

Actually deep down, I don't care if Kaneki win or lose, dies or survived, I just don't want Furuta to disappear from TG haha XD

SethBigBoss said:


Her skills was above most of the investigator, she isn't dead because she was weak but because of the enemies's teamwork, her attitude etc.. this isn't just about strenght, Urie killed Roma despite the fact that she was a SSS ghoul but that doesn't mean that Roma was weaker or whatever she lost because of her attitude.
I think Amon has a higher Rc level than Takizawa despite that he lost against Takizawa so everything is possible with Kaneki and Furuta.

You know that making a kakuja is exhausting for a ghoul right? There is no way that she was able to fight correctly once Furuta destroyed her kakuja, she just ate a paté and was under the suppressants... Furuta's kagune was able to pass through her kakuja and you think that she could defend herself against that again but this time without her kakuja?No...come on.
Yeah right she just chased Furuta through the building, killed V's investigators without paying attention to them without any resentment ? No, she was clearly affected by the fate of her editor and Furuta himself notice it by saying if she wanted him to apologize, to calm down etc...
She knew he was a clown and that he has a kagune...that's amazing, and ? Does that tell her what he's capable with Rize's kagune, his imagination, his skills, his tactics, etc....No, so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills.
"And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed" superior speed while being exhausted ? It seemed logical to me that her speed wasn't at the best with the suppressants and just a paté so I didn't think it was necessary to talk about it since I already said that she wasn't at her best.
Speaking about speed, Kaneki was able to keep with her SUPERIOR SPEED while he didn't have his kakuja, he was just using his basic kagune, amazing no ? So why not Furuta? Because you don't like him ? that's not a good reason.

Bowman145 said:
Fuck you Furuta! Just fucking DIE already!

I don’t care what anybody says, Furuta is damn annoying and I can’t waot to see him die!

Come on Kaneki! Kill the idiot!

Aezeryel said:


Urie winning against Roma is another bullshit fight. I get him winning against Shikorae (a character so epically wasted Hiro Mashima wanted him for FT) who wasn't really even a proper fighter. But against Roma is just plain bullshit. He barely won against Donato's clone ffs.

Probably, but Amon was a floppy, and if I remember correctly, floppies couldn't utilize their kagune properly.

Nope, haven't heard of that. Could you provide where you saw that piece of info?
Yeah, because that very same kagune can be blocked by a mere sword quinqe, but not by kagune of one of the strongest ghouls in the series.....
Furuta is a troll and simply wanted to buy time for a perfect moment to launch his surprise attack.
"so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills." Two different things. And again wrong. She knew exactly what that kagune was capable of cause she fought it. It's not like Furuta could suddenly create 20 tentacles or detach it or whatever. She knew nothing of his personal fighting style, but that goes both ways. Exhausted? How was she exhausted 2 minutes into the fight? Yoshimura in his old age managed to last more than 10 minutes, possibly even half an hour and you say that Eto was exhausted after such a short time? Based on what?
Where does it say that RC suppressants affect ghouls physical abilities? Provide me some proof please.
Kaneki was able to keep up with her speed? When? Cause, from what I remember, she only showed that speed against Banjou and the Yasuhisa sisters.
Oh look, another wrong assumption. Never once did I say I don't like Furuta. At first I actually liked him, but his repetitive jokes have become somewhat dull and his ability to predict the future to an extent was annoying, but beside that I don't have anything against him. Tatara is the one I don't like. The guy was a one-dimensional character.

SethBigBoss said:



Urie didn't beat Roma because he was stronger than her but because she was an idiot, you can be as strong as you want if you don't take a fight seriously you might lose, that's what happened. I don't see any bullshit in this fight, Roma has always been an idiot that wasn't something new, but keep thinking that it's bullshit if you want I don't want to start another debate...
Amon used a kakuja and beat Kurona just before, during this match he had no problem. We can put his defeat on the fact that he had lost control and that he couldn't fight logically but Takizawa with a lower rc level was still able to beat a stronger kakuja.

Chapter 137 page 1 on mangastream "you're probably pretty hungry huh ? In your kakuja form and all". Even without that that seems logical that making a kakuja is exhausting with almost no food and under the suppressants, it takes a lot of rc cell just to make one kakuja so making an enormous like Eto did must logically be tiring for her, a ghoul's stamina isn't unlimited and the conditions under which Eto was should only make it worse.
If Furuta's kagune pass through a kakuja that is basically an armor and one of the strongest kakuja then his kagune will pass through her basic kagune which is under the suppresants which affected the activity of the kakuhou...you make the conversation last for nothing here.
Furuta knew how Eto fights and what she was capable of, she had already fought the ccg on several occasions and reports on these fights should normally be archived while Eto didn't know how many tentacles he can do and how he would use them, and I don't know it either and the same goes for you. Kaneki beat Eto with 6 tentacles and I don't think it's an untouchable number for Furuta, we have already seen how monstrous his kagune can be. And we don't know if he can detach it or not...
Jason injected rc suppressants through Kaneki's eyes to make his body weaker to be able to torture him if I'm not wrong. and even if she was still in possession of all her physical abilities Furuta has the abilites of a half human, he's not Banjo (not a fighter) or Yasuhisa sisters( not yet that strong) so using them as a reference for Eto's speed isn't the best.
Ah I thought you were talking about Eto's speed in general, with a kakuja or not. I was referring to the fight between Kaneki and Eto when he wrecked her with rize's kagune, without using a kakuja. Ah and don't tell me she is faster without her kakuja, that doesn't make sense...maybe she would be more stealthy but not faster.