| I'm a fast reader, I almost never have to rewind. le_halfhand_easy said: No. The problem is that some series are so visually intensive that it demands you to immerse yourself fully. Anime is an audio-visual medium. And some anime are more audio-visual than others. The impact of aural and visual components hitting on the same beat is understated and desired. Wait you have to focus on the subtitles? This is kinda hard to explain, but for me I can read subtitles perfectly even if they are on the bottom limit of my vision. Basically my centre vision is on the visuals, and the subtitles are at the bottom limit of where I can see. There's hardly a need to read the sentence below, process it and look back up at the visuals. When the characters speak, you already have the words at the bottom of the screen (which you don't consciously read) so it is in your subconscious and you process it consciously at the same time the characters say it. |
BurningSpiritSep 26, 2017 1:41 AM
| I'm not a lolicon, you're just projecting your tendency to lewd 2D characters. If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
BurningSpirit said: I'm a fast reader, I almost never have to rewind. le_halfhand_easy said: No. The problem is that some series are so visually intensive that it demands you to immerse yourself fully. Anime is an audio-visual medium. And some anime are more audio-visual than others. The impact of aural and visual components hitting on the same beat is understated and desired. Wait you have to focus on the subtitles? This is kinda hard to explain, but for me I can read subtitles fine even if they are on the bottom limit of my vision. But the real question is Are you a lolicon? (I never have to focus on subs tbh it's just there and I read it and understand it while watching the whole screen. |
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
No. I like my anime lolis similar to how most people would like a pet. Cute, huggable and tempts you to pat them on the head. In real life though, I never got the obsession for big boobs. Anything of a typical A-C is fine by me (not that cup size is a good indicator of the volume of a girl's breast tissue), just as long as they have a pretty face. The big question is, "Is loli a relative term?" A girl you consider normal would be a loli to someone 2m tall. |
BurningSpiritSep 26, 2017 2:00 AM
| I'm not a lolicon, you're just projecting your tendency to lewd 2D characters. If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
BurningSpirit said: I'm a fast reader, I almost never have to rewind. le_halfhand_easy said: No. The problem is that some series are so visually intensive that it demands you to immerse yourself fully. Anime is an audio-visual medium. And some anime are more audio-visual than others. The impact of aural and visual components hitting on the same beat is understated and desired. Wait you have to focus on the subtitles? This is kinda hard to explain, but for me I can read subtitles perfectly even if they are on the bottom limit of my vision. Basically my centre vision is on the visuals, and the subtitles are at the bottom limit of where I can see. There's hardly a need to read the sentence below, process it and look back up at the visuals. When the characters speak, you already have the words at the bottom of the screen (which you don't consciously read) so it is in your subconscious and you process it consciously at the same time the characters say it. Let me put it this way. I have no problems reading subtitles. It's not a conscious effort to read them. It's somehow instinctive. And for series with little to no activity in a particular scene, its nothing. But there are series where a certain touch in the nose leads to subtle changes in lighting and effects (i.e. Reina touching Kumiko's nose and then we see from Kumiko's perspective that Reina lost the shine that Kumiko almost always see her with -indicating perhaps that that little bit of contact removed one of the barriers between them that prevents Kumiko from truly understanding what Reina meant when she said "Dud gold is not enough"), or say Shouko smiling behind her notebook when she learned that Ishida learned sign language and is asking her to be friend, or Tamako preferring to take sugar with her bitter coffee while Ooji decides to decline the sugar and take his coffee bitter indicating perhaps their different philosophies in tackling heavy events in their lives, or you know, the many many facial expressions in Shingeki no Bahamut: Genesis that demands you watch their faces. Subs will be hindrance. Even if they are at the periphery. Not only that, you will also have to deal with timings and whatnot. There's this conscious effort to focus on the subtitles then shift to the visuals (no, you cannot absolutely say you can focus on both) that plays havoc on the delivery of a scene. The music and visuals are designed to punctuate a moment but subtitles ruin that by not being in sync. You already know what is being said before they will say it that the music and visuals cannot punctuate what is being said. Unless its "suki" related. And my main offence in this thread is the idea that people think they will absolutely not miss anything in shuffling their attention. |
 You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
| No i don't think it's that legitimate. People who use that excuse would ask them: What can't read and watch what is going on at the same time? If they said: No they can't. Would tell them: If you ever gone Deaf bet you go crazy then with trying to read all them subtitles why watching at the same time. XD Watching and reading Subtitles at the same time is easy. (Unless they mess up the subtitles) |
 |
| Most of the time it's not, but you can't say it's NEVER valid, there are series/movies that require focus and some people find it hard to focus on what's happening, all the while reading text. My mum for example hates watching anything with subtitles because she finds it hard to read and watch at the same time, especially since she's not used to subtitles. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
| Your personal experience can't dictate what is or not legitimate to other people and denying that there is a potentially relevant gap between the visual info you get from the show and the visual info you get from reading the subtitles is asinine. And I say that as an experienced sub watcher. It's like people being bothered by not watching the anime in the exact aspect ratio it's intended to, a lot may not give a fuck but you lose info through the process and yes, it's legitimate to be bothered if you want to get the full experience. Dubs may suppose a bigger sacrifice of information overall but subs aren't free of that either. On the other hand, and as halfhand explained this quite well, he also mentioned something hyper-relevant. Subs are out of sync. The audiovisual information of anime is not intended to be read and that detracts from the experience. You may find it difficult to catch up to subs, but the contrary isn't preferable either. Read a sub too fast and you lose impact. Sometimes there may be a strong reveal, or a joke, in the words of a character, and by reading it faster than it actually happens with a certain sense of timing you are ruining the experience to a degree that depending on the show and scene can be a big issue. |
jal90Sep 26, 2017 3:02 AM
| It's only a legitimate excuse if you have a reading disability or if the subtitles in a certain anime are faster than normal. If you prefer watching dubs, that is up to you. Just don't make bullshit excuses and there is no problem at all. @le_halfhand_easy Stop spewing this nonsense that subs ruin the impact and delivery of scenes. It takes less than a second to shift your attention from the subtitles to the visuals. In the rare event that your peripheral vision didn't manage to catch a small detail, you have barely missed anything. If subtitles suddenly go too fast or there are lines at the top and bottom because of two characters speaking at the same time, you can pause or rewind. The subtitles appearing slightly earlier than the characters finishing their lines doesn't ruin anything. This is your personal gripe you have with subs that I, or other people have no problem with. You make it seem as if dubs are objectively better than subs with your exaggerated statements. Stop it. |
              |
Apoc_Revolution said: It's only a legitimate excuse if you have a reading disability or if the subtitles in a certain anime are faster than normal. If you prefer watching dubs, that is up to you. Just don't make bullshit excuses and there is no problem at all. @le_halfhand_easy Stop spewing this nonsense that subs ruin the impact and delivery of scenes. It takes less than a second to shift your attention from the subtitles to the visuals. In the rare event that your peripheral vision didn't manage to catch a small detail, you have barely missed anything. If subtitles suddenly go too fast or there are lines at the top and bottom because of two characters speaking at the same time, you can pause or rewind. The subtitles appearing slightly earlier than the characters finishing their lines doesn't ruin anything. This is your personal gripe you have with subs that I, or other people have no problem with. You make it seem as if dubs are objectively better than subs with your exaggerated statements. Stop it. "shift your attention" "you have barely missed anything" "you can pause or rewind" Sure, if you don't value pacing and getting the full experience as it's intended. |
| Dub watchers are an inferior human kind to the superior ubermensch of subs |
jal90 said: Apoc_Revolution said: It's only a legitimate excuse if you have a reading disability or if the subtitles in a certain anime are faster than normal. If you prefer watching dubs, that is up to you. Just don't make bullshit excuses and there is no problem at all. @le_halfhand_easy Stop spewing this nonsense that subs ruin the impact and delivery of scenes. It takes less than a second to shift your attention from the subtitles to the visuals. In the rare event that your peripheral vision didn't manage to catch a small detail, you have barely missed anything. If subtitles suddenly go too fast or there are lines at the top and bottom because of two characters speaking at the same time, you can pause or rewind. The subtitles appearing slightly earlier than the characters finishing their lines doesn't ruin anything. This is your personal gripe you have with subs that I, or other people have no problem with. You make it seem as if dubs are objectively better than subs with your exaggerated statements. Stop it. "shift your attention" "you have barely missed anything" "you can pause or rewind" Sure, if you don't value pacing and getting the full experience as it's intended. I miss 1% of the full experience and that is if I miss a small detail, which rarely happens. That doesn't bother me at all. Rewinding isn't even an issue for me. |
|
Apoc_Revolution said: jal90 said: "shift your attention" "you have barely missed anything" "you can pause or rewind" Sure, if you don't value pacing and getting the full experience as it's intended. I miss 1% of the full experience and that is if I miss a small detail, which rarely happens. That doesn't bother me at all. Rewinding isn't even an issue for me. Okay, but neither me nor halfhand intended to speak for the rest, just to state that this situation happens (some info is lost or altered) and that it can legitimately bother a viewer. None of this is a generalization, but the argument is not an excuse and has a rational basis. As said, I'm a sub watcher and I'm not saying this for my own case. |
| I know a guy who pauses on every new line so he can read the subtitles |
jal90 said: Apoc_Revolution said: I miss 1% of the full experience and that is if I miss a small detail, which rarely happens. That doesn't bother me at all. Rewinding isn't even an issue for me. Okay, but neither me nor halfhand intended to speak for the rest, just to state that this situation happens (some info is lost or altered) and that it can legitimately bother a viewer. None of this is a generalization, but the argument is not an excuse and has a rational basis. As said, I'm a sub watcher and I'm not saying this for my own case. I won't deny that watching subs has its own share of problems. Even so, I still prefer it over dubs because of the voice acting alone. I just dislike how halfhand makes exaggerated statements such as: There's this conscious effort to focus on the subtitles then shift to the visuals (no, you cannot absolutely say you can focus on both) that plays havoc on the delivery of a scene. It sounds ridiculous and it comes across as if subs are inferior, which isn't true. In comparison, your post is fine. |
|
| At my school's anime club, we were only supposed to watch dubbed anime, since some of them were dyslexic. |
 Even if helping people is easy, asking for help is a hurdle of it's own. Kaoru Gojou |
 Honestly, who cares about the "legitimacy" of the claim? I am not that person, so I am not sure how their brain and mode of comprehension works. |
 |
le_halfhand_easy said: Let me put it this way. I have no problems reading subtitles. It's not a conscious effort to read them. It's somehow instinctive. And for series with little to no activity in a particular scene, its nothing. But there are series where a certain touch in the nose leads to subtle changes in lighting and effects (i.e. Reina touching Kumiko's nose and then we see from Kumiko's perspective that Reina lost the shine that Kumiko almost always see her with -indicating perhaps that that little bit of contact removed one of the barriers between them that prevents Kumiko from truly understanding what Reina meant when she said "Dud gold is not enough"), or say Shouko smiling behind her notebook when she learned that Ishida learned sign language and is asking her to be friend, or Tamako preferring to take sugar with her bitter coffee while Ooji decides to decline the sugar and take his coffee bitter indicating perhaps their different philosophies in tackling heavy events in their lives, or you know, the many many facial expressions in Shingeki no Bahamut: Genesis that demands you watch their faces. Subs will be hindrance. Even if they are at the periphery. Not only that, you will also have to deal with timings and whatnot. There's this conscious effort to focus on the subtitles then shift to the visuals (no, you cannot absolutely say you can focus on both) that plays havoc on the delivery of a scene. The music and visuals are designed to punctuate a moment but subtitles ruin that by not being in sync. You already know what is being said before they will say it that the music and visuals cannot punctuate what is being said. Unless its "suki" related. And my main offence in this thread is the idea that people think they will absolutely not miss anything in shuffling their attention. As you said most scenes aren't particularly visually intensive, most of the time I can sit back. When it comes to intense scenes, it's pretty obvious when something is important, so it's pretty easy to ensure your concentration doesn't lapse. The reason why you keep saying you need to focus on both the visuals and subtitles is because you are reading the subtitles, remembering it and playing it out as the character speaks. That's also the reason why you talk about the delivery of each individual word not being the same time as you read it. I rarely even read the subtitles in full, usually I just pick out fragments supplement what I don't know. Then jigsaw it in as the characters speak. I'm sure you can always find people watching OVA episodes before they are subbed and get the gist of it. I'm not sure if this makes sense.... but for me it's also easier to pick up words because kanji read in onyomi already sound quite similar to mandarin and some chinese dialects, funnily enough most of these also tends to be the more complicated words. Funny thing is I'm able to watch more at ease with reading bad subtitles (basically the correct translation of words but in the Japanese sentence structure). The extent of Japanese vocabulary used in anime isn't that great to be honest either. The speed of conversation also matter. I rely much much more on subtitles when characters are yammering away. I also can't understand fast songs as well as I do slow conversations. The visually intense scenes you are talking about also often have far far slower conversations and I almost completely understand it without subtitles. |
BurningSpiritSep 26, 2017 4:56 AM
| I'm not a lolicon, you're just projecting your tendency to lewd 2D characters. If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
We used to have one. I think it was allowed since it's about japanese culture, kind of. But it's over now since the club president graduated and the teacher got a new job. |
Even if helping people is easy, asking for help is a hurdle of it's own. Kaoru Gojou |
Andhakara said: I think dubs are for people with weak peripheral vision and slow brain Why are you so offensive towards dub only? |
| In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
TimidSquid said: We used to have one. I think it was allowed since it's about japanese culture, kind of. But it's over now since the club president graduated and the teacher got a new job. Search a new teacher and become the club president? |
| In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
| I watch dubs because i like english voice actors. The only time I watch subs is if the dub got cancelled or if it doesn't have a dub. |
| Why does it matter if it's a legitimate excuse or not |
 |
Comment #2 here explains it. No need for debate. |
Once you realize that what others think about what you enjoy doesn't matter, you will finally be free |
| As someone that watches both subs and dubs I only have one thing to say to the dub watchers: Git gud at reading you illiterated, uneducated scrub. |
 One man is no more than another, if he do no more than what another does. |
Takamura-sama said: TimidSquid said: We used to have one. I think it was allowed since it's about japanese culture, kind of. But it's over now since the club president graduated and the teacher got a new job. Search a new teacher and become the club president? I really want to, but at the same time, it takes a lot of effort to ask my teachers, the only teacher I have in mind likes some Japanese bands, but they also have like 2 other clubs they work on. |
Even if helping people is easy, asking for help is a hurdle of it's own. Kaoru Gojou |
| I can read fast but i prefer dub mostly because of this "For many viewers, hearing the dialogue in their native language makes it easier to immerse themselves in the media and feel a sense of familiarity with the story and characters that is much harder to obtain while trying to hear dialogue in a foreign language and simultaneously read subtitles." |
| oh another thread for sub only fags to flex their muscles. nice. |
| Is it a legit excuse? Who knows really. When i first started watching anime I would always just choose the dub, but then eventually I would come across shows that were subbed as the only option and so I would just watch with the subtitles, and now I usually always watch the subbed version. I think the subbed versions sometime have a less "cartoony" feel than the dubbed versions of certain shows, which I like. The only times I really choose the dubbed version of shows these days is if I'm feeling lazy late at night and want to watch a show I can fall asleep to. |
| To each his own. As for me, I'm perfectly able to read subtitles and to get what happens in the anime. |
| You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi  |
| I watch dubs simply because I derive greater enjoyment from that version of the show. There are numerous shows (Yu Yu Hakusho, Howl's Moving Castle, Princess Jellyfish, etc.) that I've watched, in full, in both English dub and sub. In the shows I listed, I enjoyed the dub more. If there's a choice between my enjoyment and "creators vision", I'm choosing the former. Anime is, first and foremost, a medium of entertainment. PS. I'm someone who mostly watch with subs and sprinkled with occasional dubs. |
 |
| It's about as legitimate as not learning to speak Japanese when you spend thousands of hours sitting in front of your computer reading subs, that said localizers have some pretty strange ideas about "author intent" these days and the term "culturalization" has become a cancer on the dubbing industry. |
| Forum Signature |
| I hate when someone say "if I wanted to read, I'd read the manga" It's such a stupid argument. It's really not that hard to watch a show subbed. The only show where I think it's even slightly difficult is Monogatari. But you can get used to it if you actually try. |
TsukuyomiREKTSep 26, 2017 12:06 PM
 |
| It's called watching anime and reading manga and not reading anime for a reason you know! |
| Eh, it's legitimate if you're a newcomer to anime, I would say. |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: Eh, it's legitimate if you're a newcomer to anime, I would say. what does anime have to do with subtitles..? I mean there are subtitles for everything right? |
| In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
Takamura-sama said: Do you still need more answer after all of this?Zelev said: Eh, it's legitimate if you're a newcomer to anime, I would say. what does anime have to do with subtitles..? I mean there are subtitles for everything right? |
"I'm tired, Boss. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly at each other." - John Coffey, Green Miles |
Takamura-sama said: Zelev said: Eh, it's legitimate if you're a newcomer to anime, I would say. what does anime have to do with subtitles..? I mean there are subtitles for everything right? Sure, but you can't expect everyone to be accustomed to subtitles, especially older individuals. So it's no wonder they would find it difficult. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
| Sub is better but for some long anime or when you want to do something at the same time I use dub. Don't need to be 100% on your episode and give you time for doing other things and just give a quick look every 5 second. For your question : With sub you look less the animation and some pepole love this more than other. They can read sub but I think they don't like because they "lose" a part of the anime while they read. Edit : Depend of the anime too ( Like Occultic:nine who I switch to dub after two episode) |
on Mooncake said: Fuchsia said: Sure, but you can't expect everyone to be accustomed to subtitles, especially older individuals. So it's no wonder they would find it difficult. I have noticed that older individuals tend towards being rather unintelligent. They don't come close to teens, but they are usually pretty fucking dumb. Old people are stupid, Americans are stupid east Europeans are stupid and Africa is stupid. Only west Europe and a certain part in Asia (Japan etc) are in my opinion "smart" |
| In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
Mooncake said: Fuchsia said: Sure, but you can't expect everyone to be accustomed to subtitles, especially older individuals. So it's no wonder they would find it difficult. I have noticed that older individuals tend towards being rather unintelligent. They don't come close to teens, but they are usually pretty fucking dumb. It's not so much about intelligence, as it is about being used to subtitles. Younger people these days are able to access more foreign material, at a younger age, than ever before, be it anime or asian cinema, which comes with subtitles. In contrast, adults growing up had less foreign content, meaning of course they're not as adjusted to subtitles as we are. To chalk it up to stupidity is plain ignorance. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
Mooncake said: being incapable of reading words in your native language at the bottom of a screen is a sign that you might be a bit slow I personally don't read in my native language, I speak french but I watch my anime/series with english sub (for practise). Maybe I'm a special case but i don't think. Lot of my friend do it too. In general I have no problem. |
Jikan_ said: Mooncake said: being incapable of reading words in your native language at the bottom of a screen is a sign that you might be a bit slow English isn't my native language. I speak French but I watch my anime/series with English subtitles (for practice). I might be a special case but I don't think so. Lots of my friend watch it with subtitles too. In general I have no problem watching subbed anime. I fixed that for you. Your grammar was too trash |
| In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
| I have a friend who recently started watching anime and the first thing he told me was that he wasn't able to enjoy the episodes of some certain anime shows because of the subs. He found it difficult to both read the subs and watch the show but now he has no problem with it. Well, it's true that it can quite be problematic to watch and read the subs at the same time but eventually, people get used to it and then it's all fine. You just need to adapt to it if you really wanna watch anime with subs, it's not that difficult after all tbh. |
More topics from this board
» Best pink haired girl? ( 1 2 )Spunkert - Jan 22 |
58 |
by MasterTasuke
»»
3 seconds ago |
|
» How far are you willing to forgive anime for its obvious (to you) disadvantages?RobertBobert - 7 hours ago |
18 |
by LSSJ_Gaming
»»
1 minute ago |
|
» Describe an anime with zoomer languageZakuF_ - 11 hours ago |
5 |
by ST63LTH
»»
2 minutes ago |
|
» Do your favorite hentai tags reflect your desires in real life?Ejrodiew - 54 minutes ago |
11 |
by rohan121
»»
3 minutes ago |
|
» What is the most memorable first episode of an anime you've watched?mahrjose - 7 hours ago |
15 |
by ST63LTH
»»
4 minutes ago |