romagia said: "The first episode is a good indicator of the overall quality of a show."???? Absolutely preposterous i say good sir. No man in the faculty of their minds could ever cum up with such a thing. There is indeed no point here, only trash. And others should know it instead of writing 4 pages of non-stop fun. Quite. Such a contention should not be entertained even for a moment by the fine gentlemen of My Anime List. And of course, any person who styles themselves critics would snicker at the fool proposing they only watch one episode and be done with it! As good old chap Shakespeare once wrote, "lord, what fools these mortals be!" |
 |
15poundfish said: jal90 said: How are you defining good in terms of a introductory episode? The way I see a good introduction episode is one that introduces the main characters, the story, hook(what draws the viewer to continue watching the show) and a minor conflict ( The main conflict can be revealed in the first episode but its not a requirement) that is resolved. The shows I have watched of your examples have solid introduction episodes. An introduction episode is probably not going to have the same impact on the viewer as the climax but the first episode is extremely important and key to any successful anime.I didn't say «absolutely awful», just «not one of the best». And under this label Gintama, One Piece, Azumanga Daioh, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Tutu, The tatami galaxy, Welcome to the NHK, Akage no Anne, etc. among my 10s and off the top of my head. The only clear ones I can mention for the contrary are Mushishi and Usagi Drop. ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿? Do I have to remind you that your original premise was "the pilot always tends to be one of the best episodes in the show"? Of course most of these are good. That's beside the point. |
| The first episode is a terrible indicator for wether or not a show is good. Take Hunter x Hunter for example. |
Visit my Anime List or my Manga List |
| I disagree. My top examples of shows that got better after their first episode are Another and Princess Tutu. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| The first episode sets things up. It can be promising as you are introduced to a whole bunch of stuff but mainly characters and mechanics which stand out from the crowd. That's pretty much it to me, so many things devolved after a couple of episodes which achieved more than your regular animes, and many more didn't do much for more than one hour. |
| yes. most of quality aspect like animation, soundtrack, main characters, and voice actor can be seen from episode 1 |
| fuck that shit, drop is for the WEAK!! |
 |
Zoltor said: TheBrainintheJar said: Digimon Tamers, Medabots, Denou Coil, Shinsekai Yori, Tatami Galaxy all had attention-grabbing and great openers. If a storyteller is good, they can tell a good story in 20 minutes. That's not true, there's a reasons movies are rated on a completely different scale, then series are. Also I love how all you people who seem to think a 1st ep is = to a entire anime series, seem to also gloss over the fact, that even when a 1st ep is great, it sure as hell Isn't a indication the rest of the series is or is even the direction the story will take. Remember anime like Sengoku Basara, what a great 1st ep, shame basically the entire rest of the series sucked. Oh yea, lets not forget the shitstorm that is SAO. Hell even when a series doesn't go to shit, the first ep has little to nothing to do with a anime most of the time. Take Moribito Guardian of the Spirit for instance, the 1st episode is epic, and implies It's going to be a epic wuxia series, but that's not how the series plays out at all, it instead plays out as a pure sol, very little drama, no tragedy to speak of, and next to no action... The 1st ep Isn't very representative of the anime 1 bit, and if someone didn't like very deliberately paced sol anime, they would hate it, even though they loved the 1st ep. In cased where there Isn't a prelude, studios love to attempt to turn a 1st ep into a glorified trailer, and most of the time, that's all the 1st ep is. Do you buy video games just based off stupid CG trailers? I certainly hope not. There's so many different types of story telling, that even negates a fist episode mattering at all(and at very least, not by its own anyway), you first ep people just outright ignore all the nuances, and changes of a story. Here's another example, Spice and Wolf has a very average 1st ep, nothing special here, and I assure you the last thing people would expect, is a extremely intelligent sol, that goes into old world trading, in such super high detail. This is a prime example of a anime being way better then the 1st ep too. ect, ect, ect, ect. Now back to rewatching Victorian Romance Emma, a anime that while has a pretty good 1st ep for a sol anime ingeneral, sure as hell doesn't indicate that the series would end up being this great. Good thing I don't judge a anime on just the 1st ep :) Every episode is important. If it isn't, it shouldn't exist. Else it just wastes 20 minutes of my life. I don't judge an anime based on the 1st episode. Few episodes are as good as the whole series. Still, a lot of first episodes tell me a lot about how a series is going to be. Many great shows had attention-grabbing first episode that lay down a lot of great ideas they'll develop. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Zoltor said: That's not true, there's a reasons movies are rated on a completely different scale, then series are. Also I love how all you people who seem to think a 1st ep is = to a entire anime series, seem to also gloss over the fact, that even when a 1st ep is great, it sure as hell Isn't a indication the rest of the series is or is even the direction the story will take. Remember anime like Sengoku Basara, what a great 1st ep, shame basically the entire rest of the series sucked. Oh yea, lets not forget the shitstorm that is SAO. Hell even when a series doesn't go to shit, the first ep has little to nothing to do with a anime most of the time. Take Moribito Guardian of the Spirit for instance, the 1st episode is epic, and implies It's going to be a epic wuxia series, but that's not how the series plays out at all, it instead plays out as a pure sol, very little drama, no tragedy to speak of, and next to no action... The 1st ep Isn't very representative of the anime 1 bit, and if someone didn't like very deliberately paced sol anime, they would hate it, even though they loved the 1st ep. In cased where there Isn't a prelude, studios love to attempt to turn a 1st ep into a glorified trailer, and most of the time, that's all the 1st ep is. Do you buy video games just based off stupid CG trailers? I certainly hope not. There's so many different types of story telling, that even negates a fist episode mattering at all(and at very least, not by its own anyway), you first ep people just outright ignore all the nuances, and changes of a story. Here's another example, Spice and Wolf has a very average 1st ep, nothing special here, and I assure you the last thing people would expect, is a extremely intelligent sol, that goes into old world trading, in such super high detail. This is a prime example of a anime being way better then the 1st ep too. ect, ect, ect, ect. Now back to rewatching Victorian Romance Emma, a anime that while has a pretty good 1st ep for a sol anime ingeneral, sure as hell doesn't indicate that the series would end up being this great. Good thing I don't judge a anime on just the 1st ep :) Every episode is important. If it isn't, it shouldn't exist. Else it just wastes 20 minutes of my life. I don't judge an anime based on the 1st episode. Few episodes are as good as the whole series. Still, a lot of first episodes tell me a lot about how a series is going to be. Many great shows had attention-grabbing first episode that lay down a lot of great ideas they'll develop. Important in telling the full story/painting a complete picture, perhaps yea, but important as in "especially good", no. There's reasons why, in story telling, there are things called climaxes, you can't expect an entire story to be a climax, and frankly most, if not every story would suck, if that were the case. |
ZoltorSep 28, 2016 2:45 PM
| . |
kamisama751 said: After the first episode you can basically see in which direction the show is heading qualitywise. You said: fuck that shit, drop is for the WEAK!! Masochism all the way, hm? That's called completionist duh #hardwork #dedication |
|
| There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... |
WHEN IT RAINS, IT POURS. |
kamisama751 said: just open the goddamn app and notice the curator who is replying to your comment fukboi XDhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA Which AA do you mean? I assume "Attitude Adjustment, a wrestling move used by John Cena". xD |
|
Zefyris said: no it's not. that was never the case and will never be. -You can definitely see tendencies for things like animation quality, music, cast quality, that kind of things. Usually those things are either consistent during the show or downgrading as the shows goes on, not upgrading. -For the quality of characters, plot, you cannot see a thing. Not. a damn. thing. Not a single one. So if that's what matter to you, you cannot judge anything from the first episode. Not even that much in fact, by 3 episodes as well. -For the quality of script and storyboard, that kind of things isn't handled by the same persons during a whole show so the bad quality of one episode doesn't necessarily transmit to the following ones, so useless as well. This is because of that kind of shitty belief/behaviour in the anime/manga community that shows and manga try desperately to attract /catch the viewever attention in one chapter/Episode, resulting in breaking the narration structure, in premises of a story that the author cannot even handle afterwards (so all that was interesting happened in the first part, basically, after that nothing interesting to see) and that in reverse authors who still choose to build their story properly and steadily don't sell and don't go until their end, effectively resulting in half assed endings. Thanks a lot, seriously. That's one reason for which novel >>> anime. Novels are sold with the whole volume so the authors have plenty of time to catch the reader's attention in 300-1000 pages. SO they never had to lower themselves to the crappy methods the anime medium use in order to sell. disagree, you won't see full value of characters in first episode but can get a solid impression of the level of characterization you can expect - you can't judge how dynamic a character is but you can get a strong impression of their depth from a small number of their interactions and most novels that sell well do have immediate surface appeal from the beginning in some way |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
kamisama751 said: You said: just open the goddamn app and notice the curator who is replying to your comment fukboi XD Holy shit. A moelitist is traumatizing Annie may Amino. A true elitist likes moe and don't drop annie may. |
|
Zoltor said: TheBrainintheJar said: Every episode is important. If it isn't, it shouldn't exist. Else it just wastes 20 minutes of my life. I don't judge an anime based on the 1st episode. Few episodes are as good as the whole series. Still, a lot of first episodes tell me a lot about how a series is going to be. Many great shows had attention-grabbing first episode that lay down a lot of great ideas they'll develop. Important in telling the full story/painting a complete picture, perhaps yea, but important as in "especially good", no. There's reasons why, in story telling, there are things called climaxes, you can't expect an entire story to be a climax, and frankly most, if not every story would suck, if that weren't the case. I don't think a story can be all-climax. It would lose its effectiveness. Tonal and pacing shifts are necessary to maintain that and interest. But by 'important', I mean that the episode will contribute something to the bigger picture. It won't just have things happening, but has a meaningful significance. The first episode of Medabots doesn't show its philosophy, but it's a great introduction of its two main characters and that's why, even on its own, it's a great episode. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Sora_no_Umi said: There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... Let me look at my profile for a sec.... oh, I have 471 anime completed....Your argument is invalid. |
CapitalistGod said: I more or less agree. There's just so many anime out there, it's impossible to have enough time to watch them all. But I like to give a one episode rule where I try atleast one episode to see if it hooks me. Of course there are numerous issues with this, most notably with longer anime series since the first episode will most likely be a sort of tutorial with a slow but steady rise. A show that needs building up or relies on tonal shifts are just exceptions to the rule and from the first episode alone, more often than not... you'll have a rough idea of what you'll get from a show. This also applies both for critical viewers and those who watch purely for enjoyment. Well, do you agree? or disagree? Also, I say this having over 30% of my dropped list being dropped in or after the 1st episode. Haha! In general though, for anime up to 24 to 52 episodes, I think this is a good philosophy to follow. |
Sora_no_Umi said: memenime aside, There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... - the 3 episode rule is often criticized (and by often i mean in this other thread by op) - as seen in post #29 which i suggest (re)reading, anyone that watch enough anime will become better at judging from the first episode + whatever information you know before watching (not the opposite where did u get that impression lol) |
 |
| Most shows tend to not change as much from when you began them but rarely, does a show seem to get even more interesting as you go on. |
| Numbuh 3, you've got to get off the couch, you cannot sit in that tree house, girl you like Rainbow Monkeys so grab your little shit and then swing! Hand tracks be tracking me to different doorways. In a maze, and I don't know what to do. Guaranteed though, Ima find the emeralds. |
| It really depends on the show. For some animes the first few episodes can be seen as a high point (looking at you SA:O) and some of them can be seen as something to get through because you aren't used to it or because they are very slow that nothing gets accomplished or feels like there is anything (honey and clover is one that comes to mind). Its rarely representative of the final product though especially if there are any huge plot twists or turns that throw you off in the series. |
| My gosh! I did check your dropped list. Nah, not really. I also have a friend like that, but for me you may have missed some good anime. Sometimes it depends upon the style of author that's why many would be hooked on episode 1. There are some anime that will give you that impression but may give you a twist while the episode continues. |
atKatlinSep 28, 2016 8:06 PM
 |
| I disagree. Remember Gintama? In my opinion, it was boring. I thought I could say it's good by the first episode, but as I continued, I loved it. Haven't added it to list yet. |
 |
romagia said: Sora_no_Umi said: memenime aside, There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... - the 3 episode rule is often criticized (and by often i mean in this other thread by op) - as seen in post #29 which i suggest (re)reading, anyone that watch enough anime will become better at judging from the first episode + whatever information you know before watching (not the opposite where did u get that impression lol) ya it's true that you can get better at judging with more experience, but I feel like, especially with recent anime seasons, that the whole premise vs execution thing becomes more relevant. what i mean by that is it might have really good premise and gets executed horribly, or the plot becomes stagnated and pointless, leading to cliche usages and/or plot armors. Personally, I usually just watch until I have a pretty solid idea of what's happening, but I find that just watching the first episode is hard to have a concrete idea of what will happen Of course, I could be retarded and just need a bigger sample size to reach a conclusion, but that's just me. CapitalistGod said: Sora_no_Umi said: There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... Let me look at my profile for a sec.... oh, I have 471 anime completed....Your argument is invalid. Well if you can judge the quality of an anime just based on the first episode, then that's a godlike ability... My biggest problem with judging from only one episode is that sometime it have good premise, but the director/author gets stagnated and doesn't know how to keep up with previous expectation and the whole anime goes completely to shit. I find that watching about 3 episodes-ish can give a pretty good sense of how far the story can go with its setting and ideas, but most of the times, since first episode are mainly used to dump exposition (of course with exceptions of some anime), it's kinda hard to grasp how the story might develop. |
| WHEN IT RAINS, IT POURS. |
15poundfish said: jal90 said: Its a qualitative statement on the quality of the episode based on a curve. There is no possible way to grade an episode quantitatively because many episodes are created for different purposes. A pilot episode has to have a higher level of quality to be green lighted on television and to keep viewers tuned in to watch the next episode. The first impression is often what determines the success of a television show and the same is true in Anime.¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿? Do I have to remind you that your original premise was "the pilot always tends to be one of the best episodes in the show"? Of course most of these are good. That's beside the point. I find that you can rate episodes individually, but episodes aren't songs on a music album. They're directly tied to the big picture and, by nature, don't sit too comfortably on their own. So I don't expect every episode of a great anime to be great. I just expect it to keep moving the ideas forward. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Most people disagree, but I always thought One Piece was good from the start! Even if the story and characters, and animation..kinda..maybe..not, got better from that point on until it really picked up steam. And to pick up steam on volume 8 of 82 is pretty good. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| There are some shows that have a deteriorating effect, like the studio blows a good chunk of funds on the first episode, generally to hook and get the viewers interested, but as the show progresses, you'll note drops in quality, while it may not effect the story heavily, it can and does effect ones personal enjoyment. This meaning you can't judge visual quality by the first episode. Tokyo Ghoul, Taboo Tatoo and Magi are some examples. Then on the other hand, there are shows with just completely misleading or wasted potential after the first episode. Kotoura-san for example always comes to mind when I think of good first episode that was misleading for the rest of the show. A dark and heartbreaking first episode about a young girl being abandoned by her family and everyone around her because of her ability all within the first episode only to turn into another happy going romcom the next and to make it worse, the problem gets resolved in a matter of minutes in another episode. All that build up from the first episode wasted, like, dafuq. |
CapitalistGod said: My drop list is about the same. One can get the feel/style of an anime in the first episode. That's usually enough for me to determine if it might be worth watching or not.Also, I say this having over 30% of my dropped list being dropped in or after the 1st episode. Haha! |
  |
CapitalistGod said: A show that needs building up or relies on tonal shifts are just exceptions to the rule and from the first episode alone, more often than not... you'll have a rough idea of what you'll get from a show. This also applies both for critical viewers and those who watch purely for enjoyment. Well, do you agree? or disagree? Also, I say this having over 30% of my dropped list being dropped in or after the 1st episode. Haha! i actually agree... unless its a really popular anime like steins gate which i knew started off slow then picked up.. if i watched 3 eps of anime no matter if i liked the quality or plot so far it would add up so fast and i would end up wasting alot of time.. :[ |
 |
Paul said: Then on the other hand, there are shows with just completely misleading or wasted potential after the first episode. Kotoura-san for example always comes to mind when I think of good first episode that was misleading for the rest of the show. A dark and heartbreaking first episode about a young girl being abandoned by her family and everyone around her because of her ability all within the first episode only to turn into another happy going romcom the next and to make it worse, the problem gets resolved in a matter of minutes in another episode. All that build up from the first episode wasted, like, dafuq. I think that Kotoura-san's whole deal is to convey that no matter how tragic your past can be, you can still be happy. Although it's heavily romanticized. Also, considering that it only happens for the first half of the first episode, it's not really misleading at all. In fact, the second half clearly shows what I'm talking about. |
CapitalistGod said: Paul said: Then on the other hand, there are shows with just completely misleading or wasted potential after the first episode. Kotoura-san for example always comes to mind when I think of good first episode that was misleading for the rest of the show. A dark and heartbreaking first episode about a young girl being abandoned by her family and everyone around her because of her ability all within the first episode only to turn into another happy going romcom the next and to make it worse, the problem gets resolved in a matter of minutes in another episode. All that build up from the first episode wasted, like, dafuq. I think that Kotoura-san's whole deal is to convey that no matter how tragic your past can be, you can still be happy. Although it's heavily romanticized. Also, considering that it only happens for the first half of the first episode, it's not really misleading at all. In fact, the second half clearly shows what I'm talking about. I do recall a part of the first episode already showing off the typical romcom scenario but the way the show portrayed it made you think there might be more to it than just that, but sadly it wasn't. I think it would have been far better if it was shown as a flashback in a later episode instead of just starting off with it. If it did, I probably wouldn't even have high hopes for it and just enjoy it as another romcom show with a character who gets revealed to have a bad childhood. |
sasalx said: No it's not and Steins;Gate is the biggest example for this.That's why there is a rule called "3 episode rule." You just can't expect to see plot with it's full glory by only watching one episode. Bullshit. I loved Steins Gate from the very beginning. If something would make me hate this show in first episode/s I wouldn't be able to like it later. Something opposite - I hated ngnl from the very beginning and it wasn't changed in next episodes. To be more precise - it changed to be a lot worse than 1st episode. In 90% cases I can tell if I want to watch something or not after 1st ep. If I'm irritated by something in 1st episode, then it most likely won't change in future (direction, type of humour, type of MC etc). And if I'm not able to like characters, direction styles or humor type, then it doesn't matter if plot gets better in the end of the show. I don't want to lose my free time to watch something which I just don't like. |
rsc-plOct 10, 2016 12:03 PM
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
| Tbh, that only works for people that are very strict and demanding of quality in plot/story and execution, as opposed to the majority that are more concerned with their personal entertainment...People like that are very meticulous when analyzing the entire episode and can easily spot the kinds of things that will remain unchanged throughout the whole show... So yeah, that method won't work for most people... |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| @rsc-pl Woah slow down.Just because you don't someone's opinion doesn't means you can call it bs. rsc-pl said: sasalx said: No it's not and Steins;Gate is the biggest example for this.That's why there is a rule called "3 episode rule." You just can't expect to see plot with it's full glory by only watching one episode. Bullshit. I loved Steins Gate from the very beginning. If something would make me hate this show in first episode/s I wouldn't be able to like it later. Something opposite - I hated ngnl from the very beginning and it wasn't changed in next episodes. To be more precise - it changed to be a lot worse than 1st episode. In 90% cases I can tell if I want to watch something or not after 1st ep. If I'm irritated by something in 1st episode, then it most likely won't change in future (direction, type of humour, type of MC etc). And if I'm not able to like characters, direction styles or humor type, then it doesn't matter if plot gets better in the end of the show. I don't want to lose my free time to watch something which I just don't like. Btw this is bullshit. |
rsc-pl said: sasalx said: No it's not and Steins;Gate is the biggest example for this.That's why there is a rule called "3 episode rule." You just can't expect to see plot with it's full glory by only watching one episode. Bullshit. I loved Steins Gate from the very beginning. If something would make me hate this show in first episode/s I wouldn't be able to like it later. Something opposite - I hated ngnl from the very beginning and it wasn't changed in next episodes. To be more precise - it changed to be a lot worse than 1st episode. In 90% cases I can tell if I want to watch something or not after 1st ep. If I'm irritated by something in 1st episode, then it most likely won't change in future (direction, type of humour, type of MC etc). And if I'm not able to like characters, direction styles or humor type, then it doesn't matter if plot gets better in the end of the show. I don't want to lose my free time to watch something which I just don't like. I actually only watched the first 8 episodes of S;G and enjoyed it thoroughly. Many people talk about how amazing it is because it builds up, but it sounds silly. Just because it takes its time before going fully wacko doesn't mean it can't build characters or show amusing situations. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| More like a good indicator for whether the show is for you or not. Exceptions just disprove the rule. |
HyperL said: Tbh, that only works for people that are very strict and demanding of quality in plot/story and execution, as opposed to the majority that are more concerned with their personal entertainment...People like that are very meticulous when analyzing the entire episode and can easily spot the kinds of things that will remain unchanged throughout the whole show... So yeah, that method won't work for most people... But, but... some people can have a meticulous approach with their personal entertainment(or rather they're hard to please). |
CapitalistGod said: HyperL said: Tbh, that only works for people that are very strict and demanding of quality in plot/story and execution, as opposed to the majority that are more concerned with their personal entertainment...People like that are very meticulous when analyzing the entire episode and can easily spot the kinds of things that will remain unchanged throughout the whole show... So yeah, that method won't work for most people... But, but... some people can have a meticulous approach with their personal entertainment(or rather they're hard to please). I woudn't put much faith on that...When people watch purely for enjoyment, what often entertains them a eventful episodes...But there are many first episodes out there that focus on introducing the characters and premise, and not much else happens, then the plot only really starts on the second episode or something...So I really doubt you can decide how much the whole show will entertainm you on the first episode...I'd recommend them to at least watch the second episode to see if things become eventful and entertaining by then... |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| Yes. I've seen the first episode of Gate and that's more than enough for me to drop it and mark it as one of the worst anime I've ever seen. |
  |
More topics from this board
» Do you feel just not excited for anime these days? ( 1 2 )anizawa89 - May 10 |
50 |
by Ryuseishun
»»
1 minute ago |
|
» Do you see there being another Ecchi Anime as critically acclaimed as Mushoku Tensei in the future?Dragevard - May 7 |
40 |
by Zedlin
»»
5 minutes ago |
|
» Every anime viewer has gone through this phase:9765 - 8 hours ago |
25 |
by DesuMaiden
»»
5 minutes ago |
|
» Don't you find the obsession with fictional characters in the anime community alarming? ( 1 2 3 )removed-user - May 10 |
102 |
by DesuMaiden
»»
9 minutes ago |
|
» Anime sequels that fell off ( 1 2 )ST63LTH - Yesterday |
50 |
by Zedlin
»»
11 minutes ago |