JustALEX said: TheBrainintheJar said: Our society is still very patriarchal, so the male point of view is still dominant. Which society? Japan. No.....they have a capitalist viewpoint and will pander to whatever group gives them the most money. That happens to be MALES. And fanservice anime make a lot of money...thus it makes simple sense why we continue to see a good amount of fanservice anime. Chiaya said: I'm starting not to be able to stand it either, the annoying useless fanservice. I usually didnt mind it a while ago but it's become so unnecessary. Then don't watch it! How hard is that? I personally can't stand the romcom movies Hollywood makes that are obviously targeted to women....so I don't watch them. I rather watch my superhero movies that Marvel and DC are obviously pandering to MY demographic. See...simple. I'll watch something I like and not something I don't like. Why can't anime fans do the same? CapitalistGod said: Because the Japanese male market is much higher... of course. ^this was the ONLY response that was needed in this thread. I said that our society is still fairly male-dominated because it many mediums, the male point of view is still dominant. That's because a society doesn't turn egalitarian overnight. The cultural shift takes time. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: I said that our society is still fairly male-dominated because it many mediums, the male point of view is still dominant. That's because a society doesn't turn egalitarian overnight. The cultural shift takes time. You said "Our society"....which one? Be more specific. |
JustALEX said: TheBrainintheJar said: I said that our society is still fairly male-dominated because it many mediums, the male point of view is still dominant. That's because a society doesn't turn egalitarian overnight. The cultural shift takes time. You said "Our society"....which one? Be more specific. well he is from middle-east society just saying :D |
JustALEX said: NipponTheBrainintheJar said: I said that our society is still fairly male-dominated because it many mediums, the male point of view is still dominant. That's because a society doesn't turn egalitarian overnight. The cultural shift takes time. You said "Our society"....which one? Be more specific. BoboSmrad said: they don't though. it's equal, if not more.iirc it's because guys tend to buy shit (figurines,dvds, etc) more than girls. i think it's like this in all sort of media unfortunately.. girls buy more merch. have u not seen their shrines for specific characters? |
| I feel like this has a lot to do with how the industry works. Anime is a limited media. It's mainly reserved for anime which cannot be easily adapted into live action movies/series. Lots of shoujo stories can be easily made into a live action since they often take place in a high school, college, or some other simplistic setting with an uncomplicated plot. Of course, there are some shoujo stories out there which would have difficulty being adapted into a live adaptation because of its complexity (watch/read Basara or Akatsuki no Yona for examples). Girls tend to watch more live actions in Japan for this reason. Shounen and seinen stories on the other hand are usually more extravagant with their stories. Most of the top shounen anime wouldn't work good at all as a live action adaptation (see Attack on Titan or Parasyte's live movie for examples. Hell, even Death Note's live action was far from great) so they seek a film adaptation through anime. It's far easier for people to simply draw, for example, a ghoul, rather than try to make a person look like one in real life (well, apparently, Tokyo Ghoul has a stage play but the ghoul costumes were so bad that people didn't even want to take pictures of them). Guys tend to watch more anime in Japan for this reason. Since anime caters towards shounen and/or seinen stories, it attracts more boys in the industry. You see lots of fan service of girls rather than guys because that is what sells. There's few guys who are going to sit back and watch a 2d, animated guy's ass flaunt in front of their tv screen. But a girl's ass? Hell yeah. There are examples of male fanservice in anime, though not as common. Of course, nowadays, there's more anime coming out that both sexes would be able to enjoy regardless of fanservice or not. tldr; more girls watch live actions more boys watch anime anime industry caters to boys because they're a majority audience |
Mayuka said: BoboSmrad said: they don't though. it's equal, if not more.iirc it's because guys tend to buy shit (figurines,dvds, etc) more than girls. i think it's like this in all sort of media unfortunately.. girls buy more merch. have u not seen their shrines for specific characters? i don't think i have.. i've mostly just hear people state that when it usually comes to the fandoms,guys are more contributing with (buying) merchandise while girls are contributing with fanart(not sure about the latter but i'm sure there was/is a youtube video explaining the reason for the former somewhere). |
| Industry standards, by definition, cannot be sexist. I want to clear this up right away. Implying that an industry is sexist for reflecting its consumers is stupid. Sorry for the insult, but there is no easier way to put it. 1) While visual stimulation works well to sell to guys, it does not work nearly as well with women which is why you do not see as many series similar to Free!, granted this is a market that had yet been explored, however you notice this not only in anime. Movies / Porn / Commercials / etc. will consistently play to what each gender finds stimulating. Men are much more visual then women are. 2) The male audience when it comes to anime is larger, however more importantly, spends a LOT more. As stated earlier, an industry will reflect its consumers, if more ecchi will sell, then more series will tap into this market. Do bear in mind, an industry's goal is to make money, not push any specific agenda, implying that a business is intentionally avoiding making a larger profit is silly. 3) You don't seem to understand demographics, first off, there are 4 demographics (not 2), Shounen (younger boys), Shoujo (younger girls), Seinen (older boys), Josei (older girls). So yes, if you saw a seinen it could very well contain many of the same elements as a shounen. However demographics for anime are purely based off of the magazine the manga was released in and therefore are not the be-all-end-all of what genre the series is. One magazine may target younger boys and feature all harems, while another may similarly target younger boys but stick to action / adventure. 4) I know this may sound rude, but if you want more "Free!", buy it. Support it. More importantly buy Free! merchandise. One of the main attractions of creating ecchi series is that what sells is not just the series, but all of the (relatively expensive) merchandise that accompanies it. If you can show Japan that their is a strong market for series featuring "Cute guys doing cute things", similar to moe, or anything else like this, then you will see more series like it. Although ultimately this comes down to Japanese women, I honestly feel that Japan cares very little about foreign sales sometimes but I could be wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will say that anime is sort of not a good indicator of manga. The ratio of shounen / seinen to josei / shoujo is much different in manga due to the fact that manga is released in magazines containing ~10 series. This means if one sucks, it is easy to cut out, and also is cheaper to produce. Anime is sink or swim, once it has been decided on, that's it, it better sell. There is no, welp, it sucked, cut it option. Therefore companies really don't want to test the waters if they have a demographic they know will sell well. Historically the female market just isn't as profitable in regards to anime, therefore they are more hesitant to try it out. It is also why so few shoujo / josei get adapted. |
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Mayuka said: BoboSmrad said: they don't though. it's equal, if not more.iirc it's because guys tend to buy shit (figurines,dvds, etc) more than girls. i think it's like this in all sort of media unfortunately.. girls buy more merch. have u not seen their shrines for specific characters? I'd really like to see some evidence that girls buy more anime merchandise than males. The overwhelming majority of figures I see being made are specifically targeted towards males. I don't doubt that females buy figures as well, even figures aimed for males....but I DO doubt that they spend more money than males. |
| Why is anime bad? Let's stop asking the obvious questions. |
wow |
Rinshansan said: It aims for guys and girls in Japan, not you people of MAL and your myopic wishes. This is true. Anime is aimed specifically for the Japanese audience....not Westerners. The fact that Westerners like it is just a plus for the industry. But they will NEVER cater to our (western) demands, because we are NOT the target. |
| Because men are easier to entertain with fanservice, just give us a bunch of oppai and we're statisfied. (At least some of us are) |
FrozenJemima said: I've been wondering about this for a while. I tend to find that anime has butt angles to please the male audience but doesn't do anything for the female audience. 4/10 anime I come across, or start to watch, just gives boobs and butts and so I then drop it. But what I'm wondering is why anime tends to go for a male audience. If I watch an anime now it would have bikinis and stuff and I would find that normal, so why doesn't it have shirtless guys to please the female audience? (Free :3) I'm not saying there is no anime that does this for women (Free :3) I'm just saying there's SO MUCH more butts in a casual anime than shirtless guys. At first I thought maybe it was just the difference between Shojo and Shounen, but it's not. I saw an anime recently that wasn't shounen but was for the male audience. And I've seen some Shounen (Like Assasination Classroom) which doesn't do this. I'm starting to feel that anime is a bit sexist. But meh. This isn't a complain or a rant, I'm just curious. Just don't watch shit anime then and you should easily which anime have lots of fanservice. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
DoctorSexy said: you can pretty much say the same thing with all female anime fan shirtless guys+ sexist 1 dimensional stereotype male characters+ yaoi And while I only mentioned one thing you mentioned three, doesn't seem like the same to me. |
| Because females are awesome? Unlike men, females can watch anime even targeted toward the male audience. Most of them can tolerate boobs and butts being shoved in the screen but as you can see with Free, the male audience can BARELY tolerate that. If it "seems" gay then they clearly wouldn't want to see it. Either way, I'm not sure why having a shirtless man can be considered fan service but if it satisfy the female audience then they should add it more often. Although I think there is enough shirtless men as it is.... |
Died_in_VainFeb 22, 2016 3:56 AM
DoctorSexy said: you just need handsome VA with smexy voice. that's all you need.Gator said: Because men are easier to entertain with fanservice, just give us a bunch of oppai and we're statisfied. (At least some of us are) you can pretty much say the same thing with all female anime fan shirtless guys+ sexist 1 dimensional stereotype male characters+ yaoi |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| It must be where the money's at 'cause it hasn't stopped. |
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DoctorSexy said: Too be fair, they would actually probably profit off of yaoi anime given this has been a very profitable genre in the manga industry . . . However I am skeptical they could air it at any timeslot other than late night which would then put a solid dent in their profits perhaps making it not so profitable.Gator said: Because men are easier to entertain with fanservice, just give us a bunch of oppai and we're statisfied. (At least some of us are) you can pretty much say the same thing with all female anime fan shirtless guys+ sexist 1 dimensional stereotype male characters+ yaoi |
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| Take a look at most of the profile pics of this forum and you'll understand why. |
DoctorSexy said: is there a show actually like that thoughGator said: Because men are easier to entertain with fanservice, just give us a bunch of oppai and we're statisfied. (At least some of us are) you can pretty much say the same thing with all female anime fan shirtless guys+ sexist 1 dimensional stereotype male characters+ yaoi |
| a lot of new fujobait trash are coming so dont worry |
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| because the main demographic is men, especially in otaku-pandering shows which are likely going to make money off selling figurines, body pillows, etc it's definitely unappealing... but western television and movies definitely do the same. i'd say primary difference is there is more television/film aimed at adults which can explore sexuality in ways other than 'obvious male gaze shot'. worth noting that in many shows with fanservice there is very little actual sexuality beyond visual... like gurren lagann has loads of fanservice but there's not really any mention of sex |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
Died_in_Vain said: Because females are awesome? Unlike men, females can watch anime even targeted toward the male audience. Most of them can tolerate boobs and butts being shoved in the screen but as you can see with Free, the male audience can BARELY tolerate that. If it "seems" gay then they clearly wouldn't want to see it. Either way, I'm not sure why having a shirtless man can be considered fan service but if it satisfy the female audience then they should add it more often. Although I think there is enough shirtless men as it is.... dunno if it's fair to call a shirtless man fanservice. in free the shirtless men are depicted in a sexualized way tho. (as opposed to like, fairy tale) |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
An_anon said: Anticlimatic said: Because you could argue that more Japanese males tend to Buy more and more watch more anime. This is false, considering Haikyuu, Kuroko, Yowapeda, Free, etc. sales numbers. And don't get me started on Osomatsu's sales. First of all Monogatari series, Madoka, Gundam Seed, Love Live, Fate series, Attack on Titan, K-ON, Code Geass and the list goes on of many male oriented anime that have significantly better sales than your examples. Only Osomatsu can compete from the ones you mentioned. Second, Haikyuu and Kuroko, Yowapeda are shounen. While their female base is very prominent it's probably not more than 60% (exact stats for Haikyuu! actually) And this only proves that female fans are more dedicated for specific type of shows but in general male fans buy more due to their quantity. |
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| Bleach is aimed at guys and does have fanservice for them in the form of voluptuous women for sure but there are also a hella ton of hot guys in it who are often topless and have awesome muscles. So ... there you go. Also Kuroko's Basketball has tons of hot guys shirtless and is probably aimed at guys. |
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truisms said: dunno if it's fair to call a shirtless man fanservice. in free the shirtless men are depicted in a sexualized way tho. (as opposed to like, fairy tale) It is unfair but if they are okay with it then so am I since I don't really care about man fanservice. |
tsudecimo said: First of all Monogatari series, Madoka, Gundam Seed, Love Live, Fate series, Attack on Titan, K-ON, Code Geass and the list goes on of many male oriented anime that have significantly better sales than your examples. Only Osomatsu can compete from the ones you mentioned. Second, Haikyuu and Kuroko, Yowapeda are shounen. While their female base is very prominent it's probably not more than 60% (exact stats for Haikyuu! actually) And this only proves that female fans are more dedicated for specific type of shows but in general male fans buy more due to their quantity. For sure Madoka, fate series, AoT, code geass, gundam seed, death note, hxh, noragami, seraph, tokyo ghoul, fmab, bleach, magi, (naruto) are appealing to females when they are not directly targetting them like free, haikyuu, KnBasquet, black butler. |
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An_anon said: tsudecimo said: First of all Monogatari series, Madoka, Gundam Seed, Love Live, Fate series, Attack on Titan, K-ON, Code Geass and the list goes on of many male oriented anime that have significantly better sales than your examples. Only Osomatsu can compete from the ones you mentioned. Second, Haikyuu and Kuroko, Yowapeda are shounen. While their female base is very prominent it's probably not more than 60% (exact stats for Haikyuu! actually) And this only proves that female fans are more dedicated for specific type of shows but in general male fans buy more due to their quantity. It goes both ways; Gundam, Code Geass, Fate, and especially AoT have a significant female fanbase in addition to male. Those series are cross-demographic as hell. If anything you really just proved my point. They are clearly male dominated so I didn't prove your point at all. If I mentioned an anime that was aimed at females but had a male fanbase as well then I would have helped your point ( the reverse of which is found in your examples), none of those anime are like that. It also begs the questions if there is more female fans buying discs and such, why is there more male oriented anime.. |
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tsudecimo said: An_anon said: This is false, considering Haikyuu, Kuroko, Yowapeda, Free, etc. sales numbers. And don't get me started on Osomatsu's sales. First of all Monogatari series, Madoka, Gundam Seed, Love Live, Fate series, Attack on Titan, K-ON, Code Geass and the list goes on of many male oriented anime that have significantly better sales than your examples. Well, im pretty sure if K-On, Love Live and Madoka sales are good are also for the big female famdom they also have. (same with SNK) |
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| Recently (the last decade) there seems to be a trend going on that more anime are produced for a female audience. May it be shojo shows (which can also be watched by males, but are mainly for girls) or BL productions (which - I assume - are exclusively female thing). Free! is a good example how manservice can be done without diving into the area of BL. |
truisms said: because the main demographic is men, especially in otaku-pandering shows which are likely going to make money off selling figurines, body pillows, etc it's definitely unappealing... but western television and movies definitely do the same. i'd say primary difference is there is more television/film aimed at adults which can explore sexuality in ways other than 'obvious male gaze shot'. worth noting that in many shows with fanservice there is very little actual sexuality beyond visual... like gurren lagann has loads of fanservice but there's not really any mention of sex This is why the term "ecchi" applies. Ecchi is mostly meant to tantalize the viewer but also not to "cross the line". Died_in_Vain said: Because females are awesome? Unlike men, females can watch anime even targeted toward the male audience. Most of them can tolerate boobs and butts being shoved in the screen but as you can see with Free, the male audience can BARELY tolerate that. If it "seems" gay then they clearly wouldn't want to see it. First of all, the fact that the anime viewing demographic is overwhelmingly male kinda proves that most anime will preemptively be targeted towards males, and most males are ok with seeing attractive girls. And how many girls are watching anime like TLR Darkness or High School DXD? Not a lot. Males don't want to see anime like Free because they have plenty of other anime they'll probably be into. Died_in_Vain said: Either way, I'm not sure why having a shirtless man can be considered fan service but if it satisfy the female audience then they should add it more often. Although I think there is enough shirtless men as it is.... Sure. But if females want more anime like Free...then they should be prepared to do the same things males have done in order for the entire industry to pander to them. In other words....SPEND MONEY. Again...ALL of this is due to money. Japan is a capitalistic country and the #1 goal of ANY company/industry is to grow and expand profits. so @Women, you don't like the fact that so many anime are targeted towards males? Ok...do something about it....open up your purses and start spending hundreds of dollars like males do. |
Helenus said: Free! is a good example how manservice can be done without diving into the area of BL. You gotta be kidding....Free had a TON of BL overtones. Just because there isn't actual gay relationships forming, doesn't mean the makers aren't trying to drop hints here and there. Because they are. |
| I'm sure my penis masculinity would be offended by the decrease of ecchi harem guns and explosions action anime. |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
JustALEX said: Helenus said: Free! is a good example how manservice can be done without diving into the area of BL. You gotta be kidding....Free had a TON of BL overtones. Just because there isn't actual gay relationships forming, doesn't mean the makers aren't trying to drop hints here and there. Because they are. Don't get me wrong. I would wish for Free! to be BL. And I agree that there are unofficial/semi-canon ships. But I just don't consider something BL that isn't meant to. This is a problem I have with slashable anime in general. |
DoctorSexy said: is this a joke lmaoMayuka said: is there a show actually like that though every shoujo and yaoi anime out there Helenus said: free! had the perfect setup to make one of the pairings actually real or add a romantic subplot. sadly, they went the safe route.JustALEX said: You gotta be kidding....Free had a TON of BL overtones. Just because there isn't actual gay relationships forming, doesn't mean the makers aren't trying to drop hints here and there. Because they are. Don't get me wrong. I would wish for Free! to be BL. And I agree that there are unofficial/semi-canon ships. But I just don't consider something BL that isn't meant to. This is a problem I have with slashable anime in general. |
Mayuka said: This: http://myanimelist.net/anime/3092/Junjou_RomanticaDoctorSexy said: is there a show actually like that thoughyou can pretty much say the same thing with all female anime fan shirtless guys+ sexist 1 dimensional stereotype male characters+ yaoi according to good ol' Joe's review: |
xenovibe said: not really shirtless but okay :/Mayuka said: This: http://myanimelist.net/anime/3092/Junjou_Romanticais there a show actually like that though according to good ol' Joe's review: it's not a sexist show but definitely unhealthy and promotes rape and unconsent |
| Depends on if you are a girl who appreciates the sexy anime ladies. :3 |
Helenus said: Recently (the last decade) there seems to be a trend going on that more anime are produced for a female audience. May it be shojo shows (which can also be watched by males, but are mainly for girls) or BL productions (which - I assume - are exclusively female thing). Free! is a good example how manservice can be done without diving into the area of BL. That's a good thing if you ask me. We could use more of that, more of that pretty male character design. It adds variety. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| lmao this is another joke right? silly eg "Why aren't there enough bra's for men? this is outrageous because we like the way it feels", lol its called capitalism. In high school my anime club consisted of like 20-30 males and the odd chick or two would come with her friend, a lot of the time was just us guys, same with the gaming crew. In high school i'll never forget, We once got an option to watch anime in one classroom which we were in, or a movie in another and all the girls went to the other class, then a lot of the boys from that class came to ours, was like a joke. |
| I have a self destructive disease inside that eats away at me, there is no place for it in this world, this disease is righteousness. |
| it's the biggest market that buys and watches anime. also most animes are written by men, whom obviously produce content which they themselves enjoy, and thus will attract other men to said content, and thus the circle reproduces itself constantly. if more women artists were then that created content which females were interested in/had strong female characters then that would work. it's the same if you look at the teen novel industry which is like 90% targetted at pre-teen and teen girls, why? because most are female writers and the biggest reading group are girls rather than boys. |
yes....yes I did  |
| Ever heard of Shoujou or Josei? Those genres are aimed at girls, and most of the time doesn't use that kind of fanservice. |
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