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sullynathan said: The main villain (Orochimaru) turned out to not be the main villain. Turns out the main villain was (Pain) who actually wasn’t the real villain (it was Nagato) who turned out not to be the main villain. It was actually the idiot (Tobi) who turned out not to be an idiot and was the real threat of the series (Obito) who turned out to not be the main villain but was a servant to the real villain (Madara) who was fighting because he read crap on a stone just recently was betrayed the real main villain (Black Zetsu) who turns out to be the son and manipulated all of history for his mother the actual real real real villain who is also the Juubi (Kaguya) Makes perfect sense, right? I honestly did not know how to even BEGIN to react to this horrid ass-pull. I just... I just don't know! I mean things have been dragged out and going downhill for a while, but this! I want to keep enjoying this series I've been following for YEARS, but with this kind of ending... And then the wonderful deus ex machina of "an all-powerful, SECRET technique?!" comes next week. Sweet. JizzyHitler said: you know i was too bothered by this black zetsu kaguya crap that i kind of forgot how stupid the entirety of this series' antagonists were. Seeing it put in lamens terms really puts that in perspective. |
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| Ha, Black Zetsu's origins were always a mystery. I do like how he was already introduced in part one |
| Another great Naruto chapter! Too much explanations for me tho! But my god, black Zetsu was the main mastermind in the Narutoverse this whole time!? There were some crazy revelations! Kaguya crying, Naruto and Sasuke's chakara being taken away, Black Zetsu being used to explain all of Kishi's "plot twists" that everybody complains about!? Crazy chapter, I'm excited every week now to read Naruto now! I'm loving these strong chapters, Naruto is going to have a strong ending I could just feel it! |
jayss said: Ha, Black Zetsu's origins were always a mystery. I do like how he was already introduced in part one For anyone who's been following this series for a long time and has the ability to connect the dots, ^ that pretty much proves Black Zetsu's sudden inclusion as a significant figure in the story isn't just an asspull on Kishimoto's part. It's no coincidence that he was there to witness every major battle since Part 1 that the descendants of Indra and Ashura fought against each other. He would always be found observing battles that had absolutely no relation to the Akatsuki's objectives, Naruto vs Sasuke, Itachi vs Sasuke, Madara vs Hashirama.....it all actually adds up now. Even events such as the destruction of the Uzumaki's whirlpool village, the Uchiha clan massacre, which didn't make any sort of sense before do so clearly right now. After all, it would only be logical that Zetsu orchestrate the demise of both clans after he discovered Madara, since they're both a threat due to their connection to the Sage, and he wouldn't have much use for them. Plus the Uzumaki were known to be proficient at sealing jutsu, and that would be a real threat for Kaguya's eventual resurrection. Another thing is that, Zetsu was shown to to be interested in both Naruto and Sasuke even in their days as genin, long before they were significant on a world level. Being Madara's will did explain some of it, but now that we know he goes way back, and has been observing all the trans-migrants of Indra and Ashura, it makes sense. Since almost near the beginning of the story, Zetsu was always a confusing character. He had more knowledge than even the higher-ups of the Akatsuki, like Pain/Madara/Obito, always insisted on watching fights, and even said some interesting stuff like this... Of course there are still a lot of loose ends to be tied here, which kinda explains why the majority of you seem to be pissed with the chapter, but I for one am not disappointed by this Black Zetsu revelation. It explains so much; how Madara survived, why Zetsu was observing nearly every fight in the series, how the Uchiha stone tablet didn't add up with what we knew of the history of the Shinobi, why the Uzumaki were wiped out.....and many other things. This sort of coincides with what we all know about Shounen manga, final villains are usually behind everything since the beginning of time, Aizen-style. Madara was just some kid born in the wrong era who was dreaming big and simply aiming for the good old dream of world domination. Pretty much a brute really. He was kinda underwhelming and lacked the cunning nature and overpowerednesss Zetsu and Kaguya seem to have to be honest. That's just my thoughts on all of this. I do still wonder just how much of this Kishi even planned out, or if he's just miraculously winging it as he goes along though... |
RyukatsukaJun 19, 2014 11:07 PM
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ssjokg said: Taito10 said: No actually Aizen is using his Kyoka Suigetsu and makes everyone think that BZ had planned everything all along......................................................................Seriously?......................................................you kidding right?................................. right?.......................black zetsu?..........................wtf? Black Zetsu>>>>>Aizen Truth Story LOL'd at this! That would means there would be another the real hontou no mastermind of masterminds again right? Well, if so then I've already expected it. Or Moshikashite, my reaction is as planned as well??? lololololol And here's another crap. sullynathan said: The main villain (Orochimaru) turned out to not be the main villain. Turns out the main villain was (Pain) who actually wasn’t the real villain (it was Nagato) who turned out not to be the main villain. It was actually the idiot (Tobi) who turned out not to be an idiot and was the real threat of the series (Obito) who turned out to not be the main villain but was a servant to the real villain (Madara) who was fighting because he read crap on a stone just recently was betrayed the real main villain (Black Zetsu) who turns out to be the son and manipulated all of history for his mother the actual real real real villain who is also the Juubi (Kaguya) |
| "He happened to exist before so that proves anything happening as not an asspull" Great reasoning guys.. |
| You KNOW this will end with a talk no jutsu. |
jpem said: TonyTonyStark said: Yeah seriously."He happened to exist before so that proves anything happening as not an asspull" Great reasoning guys.. You guys are terrible at this. 'Him simply happening to exist' isn't, and shouldn't be, any sort of validation for these latest 'asspulls' as you so eloquently put. There have been a lot of instances in this story where certain actions Zetsu did implied that he played a more significant role in things, and the example I gave, is probably just one of many we have missed and overlooked. It's not a matter of him existing since the start, that proves these latest developments. It's the subtle foreshadowment that was used involving his character that now make his actions more fathomable. Please don't continue to misinterpret things. |
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Ryukatsuka said: jpem said: Yeah seriously. You guys are terrible at this. 'Him simply happening to exist' isn't, and shouldn't be, any sort of validation for these latest 'asspulls' as you so eloquently put. There have been a lot of instances in this story where certain actions Zetsu did implied that he played a more significant role in things, and the example I gave, is probably just one of many we have missed and overlooked. It's not a matter of him existing since the start, that proves these latest developments. It's the subtle foreshadowment that was used involving his character that now make his actions more fathomable. Please don't continue to misinterpret things. Well, tell me if i am wrong. Madara clearly said he was "inserted" his will. Don't you think Madara became so stupid that he able to plot things with Obito but failed to noticed that BZ is something different even with Uchiha's proud Sharingan? nah, first of all. Where this Kaguya the one who created BZ while Madara was implied the one who created it with saying "inserted", as if it common sense IF BZ came in front of Madara and claiming he was Madara's will thus trusting BZ, that's nonsense. He claimed he come out of Gedo Mazou in front of Madara, but something like that truly suspicious because he the only one who have black color, That's too much inconsistency. And the more absurd one is the "teach Izanagi with sharingan" clear asspull or maybe you can call it plot device. I really can't understand what the meaning of that, elaborate it to mi if you did understand it. Maybe in the future, Kishimoto will create another bullshit like "Izanagi-ed left eye with right eye" or "Izanagi-ed both eyes so no eye goes blind". |
Ryukatsuka said: Dude... that was a combination of Madara and HASHIRAMA in that pic of yours. What could that mean. jpem said: Yeah seriously. You guys are terrible at this. 'Him simply happening to exist' isn't, and shouldn't be, any sort of validation for these latest 'asspulls' as you so eloquently put. There have been a lot of instances in this story where certain actions Zetsu did implied that he played a more significant role in things, and the example I gave, is probably just one of many we have missed and overlooked. It's not a matter of him existing since the start, that proves these latest developments. It's the subtle foreshadowment that was used involving his character that now make his actions more fathomable. Please don't continue to misinterpret things. It has nothing to do with these current "revelations". |
excalibur977436 said: It is lame beyond belief when every main villain, who actually isnt the real villain, is defeated by the hypocrisy of a teenager.ssjokg said: You KNOW this will end with a talk no jutsu. Whats wrong with that? Well except Orochimaru....He just changed sides for no real reason at all thanks to Kishi, just like Sasuke did |
| just marathoned last 10 chapter of the manga and all I have to say is... 1. as I thought, Gai, you're the strongest 'human' in this anime, glad that you're not dead. and the other is, no matter what happens from now on nothing will surprise me anymore, even if the real 'God Tree' identity is actually Teuchi old man (the ramen guy) and he suddenly absorb Kaguya body and run wild on the battlefield throwing ramen all over the place. or if the one who make the 'God Tree' is actually Izumo and Kotetsu(the guy with syrup and flying fish). nothing will surprise me anymore. and I never think highly on Byakugan before and when Kaguya use it... wow. |
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| Reason why Naruto has lost it's quality with last few chapters is overusage of Black Zetsu. It doesn't matter that it was/was not implied that he had bigger role in this story, problem lies elsewhere. Every time Kishimoto needs to kickstart a story again, he uses Black Zetsu (Or even White Zetsul). Kishimoto needed to revive 4 kage- use Zetsu stored inside Sasuke; Kishimoto turned Obito good and needed to force him for a few chapters to be bad- use Black Zetsu to control him; Kishimoto needed a few more chapters so he can milk the cow- Let Black Zetsu steal Minato's Kyuubi; Obito overpowered Black Zetsu's will so he can make some more good, let few chapters pass and use Black Zetsu again; Kishimoto needed to make biggest and lamest plot twists of them all- Use Black Zetsu to turn Madara into Kaguya; Kishimoto needed to cover plot holes he created- Give Black Zetsu bigger role. There are even more examples, but I think I made my point. Worst of all, we never thought Black Zetsu had bigger role (At least I didn't), and also, I found him extremely annoying whenever he showed up into scene. Always there to make some plot twist to keep the wheel spinning. This was completely unnecessary, to have appearance of Kaguya. Madara was there before, and he was there during almost whole last arc. And even then, he had wast potential. Kishimoto could have used him in so many ways, and yet he killed him off in like 4 pages. Obito was kicking around more chapters than Madara pages. I mean WHAT THE FUCK??? Had he used him to have final fight, Naruto would have had great ending. I don't care if he had used cliches. Power of friends- sure, why not; Talk-no-jutsu- Hell, even that would have been better than Kaguya appearance. I just don't understand what did Kishimoto gain by inserting Kaguya into this story... |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
excalibur977436 said: Hidan and Kakuzo never where main villains.They didnt even have a backstory "worth" mentioning.That's probably why they werent so shitty.ssjokg said: It is lame beyond belief when every main villain, who actually isnt the real villain, is defeated by the hypocrisy of a teenager. Well except Orochimaru....He just changed sides for no real reason at all thanks to Kishi, just like Sasuke did That isn;t the case for hidan and kakuzo. Its pretty subjective regarding whether its good or bad. I personally like that they resolve it by talking. Seems to add more to it rather that having them having being defeated in a typical shounen way. WE don't know much about orochimaru's objective so we cant conclude whether he really changed sides or not. Still a mystery. Regarding sasuke, there are ALOT of reasons. Especially in the hokage falshback. One thing i like about Kishimoto is that he dosent spoon feed everything. He leaves it up to the readers to put in the pieces and complete the puzzle. BTW talk no jutsu IS the typical shounen way and yeah it is lame when MASTERMINDS behind wars and countless deaths make an 180 because of a ninja that has nowhere enough experience in tragedy as they do.I dont ask for realism I just want it to not be BULLSHIT. Ok about Orochimaru but Sasuke's change is one of the worst things in Naruto since it happened because of the words of a man Sasuke didnt give a shit about.You cant seriously accept this bullshit when Sasuke went against Itachi's wishes TWICE.The Sasuke we have been following so long wouldnt change his mind because of a past that has basically nothing to do with Itachi. Eh no Kishi spoon feeds A LOT.That is the problem.Because of this now this "revelation" just doesnt make sense. |
| I've been enjoying the past few chapters. no complaints here. Kaguya is awesome! Reminds me of ragyo from Kill la Kill |
MShukyDeneuve said: Well, tell me if i am wrong. Madara clearly said he was "inserted" his will. Don't you think Madara became so stupid that he able to plot things with Obito but failed to noticed that BZ is something different even with Uchiha's proud Sharingan? nah, first of all. Where this Kaguya the one who created BZ while Madara was implied the one who created it with saying "inserted", as if it common sense IF BZ came in front of Madara and claiming he was Madara's will thus trusting BZ, that's nonsense. He claimed he come out of Gedo Mazou in front of Madara, but something like that truly suspicious because he the only one who have black color, That's too much inconsistency. And the more absurd one is the "teach Izanagi with sharingan" clear asspull or maybe you can call it plot device. I really can't understand what the meaning of that, elaborate it to mi if you did understand it. Maybe in the future, Kishimoto will create another bullshit like "Izanagi-ed left eye with right eye" or "Izanagi-ed both eyes so no eye goes blind". I could barely understand what you were trying to get at with that kind of sentence structuring, but I'll try to answer you either way. Black Zetsu has been deceiving and manipulating the Uchiha clan for a long time, starting with their ancestor, Indra. So it really shouldn't come off as a surprise that Madara too was deceived and manipulated the same way. Having a 'proud Uchiha Sharingan' as you put, wouldn't help him much since the all-seeing eye in Naruto is the Byakugan, not the Sharingan. Perhaps he would have known something was amiss if he had that eye. Furthermore, BZ didn't just appear and say that he was Madara's will like you're so stupidly implying, nor did he just randomly come out of the statue. When Madara seemingly 'created' the White Zetsu, it was in fact Black Zetsu who was pulling all the previously transformed humans in Kaguya's Infinite sukuyomi out of the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path. After all, Kishi did say that humans eventually turned into Zetsu in the genjutsu. After that, when Madara was on the verge of dying, he assumed the white zetsus were clones he made from Hashirama's cells and the statue's chakra, and he thought the Black one was the manifestation of his will that he imbued into white Zetsu. So, to put it simply for you, BZ feigned that he was created by Madara, in order to more discreetly manipulate him and then eventually betray him when the time came for him to revive his mother. Easy to fathom, easy to understand. Also, don't forget that Madara was not the only one manipulated, BZ did the same thing to Obito, Nagato and even Indra. Regarding the Izanagi thing, I won't argue that it is probably a plot device. Like how Itachi implanted Amaterasu into Sasuke's eyes during their battle as a precaution for when Tobi eventually attempted to manipulate him. It pretty much follows that logic, Madara supposedly impanted the techinique into his eye for it to be triggered when he died so that it would cancel his death. Also, it seems that once you awaken the Rinnegan like how he did, the eye that lost its sight and went blind due to Izanagi, will reclaim its light and become usable again. All of it seems way too convenient, I know. k11chi said: Dude... that was a combination of Madara and HASHIRAMA in that pic of yours. What could that mean. It has nothing to do with these current "revelations". Don't really know what the hell you're talking about dude. The picture I posted was of Zetsu conspicuously claiming he was the land. Just how do Hashirama and Madara relate to this? |
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Toasted-Reason said: My thoughts exactly, hell i was really liking those later chapters, but this, it s just WAY too much. Dissapointing, at least :/ 3/5sullynathan said: The main villain (Orochimaru) turned out to not be the main villain. Turns out the main villain was (Pain) who actually wasn’t the real villain (it was Nagato) who turned out not to be the main villain. It was actually the idiot (Tobi) who turned out not to be an idiot and was the real threat of the series (Obito) who turned out to not be the main villain but was a servant to the real villain (Madara) who was fighting because he read crap on a stone just recently was betrayed the real main villain (Black Zetsu) who turns out to be the son and manipulated all of history for his mother the actual real real real villain who is also the Juubi (Kaguya) Makes perfect sense, right? I honestly did not know how to even BEGIN to react to this horrid ass-pull. I just... I just don't know! I mean things have been dragged out and going downhill for a while, but this! I want to keep enjoying this series I've been following for YEARS, but with this kind of ending... And then the wonderful deus ex machina of "an all-powerful, SECRET technique?!" comes next week. Sweet. JizzyHitler said: you know i was too bothered by this black zetsu kaguya crap that i kind of forgot how stupid the entirety of this series' antagonists were. Seeing it put in lamens terms really puts that in perspective. |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
jpem said: TonyTonyStark said: Yeah seriously."He happened to exist before so that proves anything happening as not an asspull" Great reasoning guys.. |
| A piece of my brain just shot out of my weiner!- Onodera Punpun |
| Next thing you're going to say is that Naruto is the black zetsu because he can utilize natural energy and find people from who knows where (turtle island). The sage of the six paths didn't even exist in the series until the Pain arc.. |
HollowV2 said: Yeah I can be reminded of ragyou from kill la kill, both were terrible antagonistsI've been enjoying the past few chapters. no complaints here. Kaguya is awesome! Reminds me of ragyo from Kill la Kill |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
sullynathan said: The main villain (Orochimaru) turned out to not be the main villain. Turns out the main villain was (Pain) who actually wasn’t the real villain (it was Nagato) who turned out not to be the main villain. It was actually the idiot (Tobi) who turned out not to be an idiot and was the real threat of the series (Obito) who turned out to not be the main villain but was a servant to the real villain (Madara) who was fighting because he read crap on a stone just recently was betrayed the real main villain (Black Zetsu) who turns out to be the son and manipulated all of history for his mother the actual real real real villain who is also the Juubi (Kaguya) LOL omg that cracked me up XD but it's so true...good job condensing the villains of the whole series. |
| I don't mind with all of these plot twist shit. what more disappointing to me is the fact that after all that happen in Naruto-verse after all the character development and improvement, Konoha Shinobi, 5 Kage, Killer Bee, and etc. in the end the one who stand a chance against Kaguya is Sasuke and Naruto just because they receive some stupid Mythical power and they're up against some stupid God of mythical creature. no matter how I look at it there's no way they can win even though they came up with some 'that jutsu' and then Hamura will came up giving them another stupid mithycal power, and still not enough and then Indra and Ashura will came to scene to giving them another mythical power. and then all of the Great Summoning Sage will came to scene to help them beat Kaguya and then they'll say that this is what exactly happen when Hamura and Hagoromo seal Kaguya in the past. all these story repeater cliche... |
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| And then Orochimaru will appear with a Keikaku Doori! smile on his face. |
| So at first Nagato (Pain) was the ruler of anything. Then the plot twist was Obito was the mastermind behind everything, and then Madara was the mastermind behind the mastermind... And NOW black Zetsu was the one pulling the strings all along... |
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| another Izanagi huh? besides, the idea of Madara revived with Izanagi after the fight with Hashirama is a shit, I don't know what Kishi is thinking is he forget the story or he just want to make the story long -_-. 1. look at Obito explanation about Izanagi, (Obito vs Konan) first requirement is you must have the power of Uchiha and Senju. and at that time Madara doesn't have the power of Senju yet, he bite Hasirama flesh is yes but if that what you call by 'obtaining' Senju power then so be it let's go to the next point. 2. If I'm not mistaken in Sasuke vs Danzo, Izanagi is a channeling jutsu, I mean like you have to activate it first before it takes effect right? example, my Izanagi time limit is one minute, since I activate Izanagi whatever happen to me in that one minute I can rewrite it again. but Madara is already dead for some time and somehow he teach his sharingan to activate Izanagi after some period of time, I mean like he's already dead and there's no meaning anymore to activate Izanagi when you're already dead. Both Danzo and Obito was activate Izanagi before they dead so they can rewrite it again. technically, that's how thing's supposed to be. |
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ryanginting said: another Izanagi huh? besides, the idea of Madara revived with Izanagi after the fight with Hashirama is a shit, I don't know what Kishi is thinking is he forget the story or he just want to make the story long -_-. 1. look at Obito explanation about Izanagi, (Obito vs Konan) first requirement is you must have the power of Uchiha and Senju. and at that time Madara doesn't have the power of Senju yet, he bite Hasirama flesh is yes but if that what you call by 'obtaining' Senju power then so be it let's go to the next point. 2. If I'm not mistaken in Sasuke vs Danzo, Izanagi is a channeling jutsu, I mean like you have to activate it first before it takes effect right? example, my Izanagi time limit is one minute, since I activate Izanagi whatever happen to me in that one minute I can rewrite it again. but Madara is already dead for some time and somehow he teach his sharingan to activate Izanagi after some period of time, I mean like he's already dead and there's no meaning anymore to activate Izanagi when you're already dead. Both Danzo and Obito was activate Izanagi before they dead so they can rewrite it again. technically, that's how thing's supposed to be. Not only that, but after he activated Izanagi he sacrificed his eye. How the fuck does he have Rinnegan in both of them then? |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
| So Madara died in the big fight and then...... HE TRAINED HIS EYE!!!!!!!!!! fuck you Kishi |
| WHAT A PLOT TWISH, SO CONFUSING |
theIend123 said: So Madara died in the big fight and then...... HE TRAINED HIS EYE!!!!!!!!!! fuck you Kishi No, I believe it was that he trained or prepared or programed(sorry can't choose the right word so I wrote all of them hehe) his eye to use izanagi after his death. That's how I understood it. |
WatashiWaZero said: I think the whole thread shows that you are alone.Is it just me, or has another plot hole been introduced? |
WatashiWaZero said: Is it just me, or has another plot hole been introduced? Madara used Izanagi to revive himself, thus sacrificing his right eye.... Then whose right eye does he have now? I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned somewhere that he was waiting to get back both of his original eyes, but how could the right eye be original if it was used for Izanagi...? That's what i was wondering as well. That aside. How did Naruto escape from Kaguya?? |
| So the whole universe has been rewritten to become a part of Black Zetsu's grand masterplan? Fuck you, Kishi. Next chapter: Black Zetsu's dog was actually the real mastermind. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| This chapter was confusing as fuck... sheesh. I had to pay a lot more attention than I usually do. I dunno, I'm not really sure I like this sudden "twist." How many times have we been teased with a sudden "oh I'm the real mastermind behind everything" revelation now? This is one or two times too many. Plus, Zetsu is not only boring but actually kind of sucks, so him being the "true villain" is just... eh. Funny, I never imagined back when Akatsuki was first being explored so many years ago and everyone was curious about the mystery behind Zetsu that Zetsu would be *this* important. I expected it even less when he just ended up being the boring clones. I'm still confused on who exactly Black Zetsu is. Was that actually elaborated on in this chapter? I have the suspicion that it is Old Man Six Paths' brother that was briefly mentioned but for some reason completely ignored. |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| (Mind blown) :/ |
| Poor Kaguya, her own children sealed her. |
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| That "i hate you" panel of kaguya looked kinda nice |
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