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deadoptimist said: MetaKite said: Slaine said he didn't want the UEF forces to have a home to go back to. While he doesn't wish to destroy the planet Earth and all of her resources, he meant to destroy the Terran civilizations. A full on assault won't just kill people. You've seen the destruction that happens when a landing castle touches down. All the pretty birds Asseylum loves (and everything around them) will die too. The entire area is destroyed so imagine what damage a full on assault would do to the Earth. Slaine may not be asking literally for the scorched Earth tactic but he is dangerously close to that. While in a war, it's a totally plausible action to take and you can't say it's "wrong" because it's war. Still, it's very much against what Princess Asseylum wants and Slaines KNOWS that. He just wants Inaho dead or to suffer and is being fueled by his emotions of hate and rage right now. It's a fine assumption, considering the lack of data we all run on assumptions, still I disagree with the idea that he destroys the civilization. He only called for advance along all the front. Many castles have already descended, some may still descend, that's true, but they won't destroy the whole surface by far. The Inaho's crew survived very close to the place of the landing too. Yeah, it's against the Asseylum's wishes, cause she doesn't want war at all. But as far as war goes, for Slaine to try to remind terrans that they can't run around his castle as they please is even necessary. He is surely begrudged, but he holds more or less ok, as it seems to me. Not nearly at "damn it, burn it all" level. Frankly, the show is too soft in this regard for the lack of better word. I don't mean that we need gore, but it's time for the MCs to start to get into beautiful battle ire. I would say he wants to destroy Earth civilization based on the options he explained to Asseylum. All evidence shows he is going for wipe out enemy completely. Not just merely conquering them and assimilating the survivors. I'm also going on the reason he decided to call upon this attack for him taking the destruction of Earth civilization as a point. He's just really angry and vengeful. Nothing good can come of that. He's not thinking rationally. As I said it's not an actual scorched Earth tactic but dangerously close where theoretically, only the lands surrounding the landing castles and uninhabited areas wouldn't really be affected. A lot of earth's land mass is already gone due to Heaven's Fall. What Slaine is about to order would be devastating to what's already left. |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: deadoptimist said: I seriously choked on this. No, please, no, I'd ban the bastards from the field. This and Psycho-Pass 2 made me extremely tired from all the bad writing. Ah, so you're another person who, like me, kinda just lost interest in Psycho-Pass 2 because of the writing. Are you gonna check out the movie? Hopefully Urobutcher doesn't f*** up F/SN. It came out in January, right? I haven't watched it, I couldn't after the season which was more of a spit in my face than anything. It was so bad, that I couldn't even bash it by the middle of the season. Frankly, Unrobuchi is just too easygoing with selling his name. It's been tarnished too much, because of all the series he abandoned and let to be crippled. He has a unique style of storytelling, that less talented or simply different minded writers can't emulate sufficiently well. As far as I understand he likes to have a unsolveable dilemma, which he shows in scary details and then he moves on to solve the story with character based plotlines, cause the dilemma can't be solved all right. But it can be pulled off only if you can balance all this crap. The same must've been true for his concept of A.Z. It started with the problems of inevitable war, conflicting interests and indoctrination and created strong characters to come on top in the end. But the current writer doesn't even understand the need to kill named characters (I mean Marito). Back to your question. Not sure I'l watch the movie. I only watch ongoings now, also I root for Ginoza, and I don't like how he is treated and his ponytail design. I don't want to see the Sybil dilemma solved as well. And I consider the Kougami's plotline ended. I like him, but I don't need more of him. MetaKite said: I would say he wants to destroy Earth civilization based on the options he explained to Asseylum. All evidence shows he is going for wipe out enemy completely. Not just merely conquering them and assimilating the survivors. I'm also going on the reason he decided to call upon this attack for him taking the destruction of Earth civilization as a point. He's just really angry and vengeful. Nothing good can come of that. He's not thinking rationally. As I said it's not an actual scorched Earth tactic but dangerously close where theoretically, only the lands surrounding the landing castles and uninhabited areas wouldn't really be affected. A lot of earth's land mass is already gone due to Heaven's Fall. What Slaine is about to order would be devastating to what's already left. Well, as I've said, I haven't lifted it from his words. He seemed still pretty stable to me, despite everything. And he positively didn't give out the order to annihilate or destroy, he simply ordered advancement and attack on UFE (not on the civillains or the land itself). But I don't feel like arguing too much over it. The only other thing I want to point out, that he undoubtedly must want to destroy the terran civilization in the sense of changing it completely and forever. If he would've suceeded in capturing Earth, the society that emerged had been wery different from botth current Earth in their universe and Vers. They'd get better tech and plenty of cheap energy, but also class system. Would've been extremely interesting to watch. |
deadoptimistMar 22, 2015 12:13 PM
MetaKite said: deadoptimist said: It's a fine assumption, considering the lack of data we all run on assumptions, still I disagree with the idea that he destroys the civilization. He only called for advance along all the front. Many castles have already descended, some may still descend, that's true, but they won't destroy the whole surface by far. The Inaho's crew survived very close to the place of the landing too. Yeah, it's against the Asseylum's wishes, cause she doesn't want war at all. But as far as war goes, for Slaine to try to remind terrans that they can't run around his castle as they please is even necessary. He is surely begrudged, but he holds more or less ok, as it seems to me. Not nearly at "damn it, burn it all" level. Frankly, the show is too soft in this regard for the lack of better word. I don't mean that we need gore, but it's time for the MCs to start to get into beautiful battle ire. I would say he wants to destroy Earth civilization based on the options he explained to Asseylum. All evidence shows he is going for wipe out enemy completely. Not just merely conquering them and assimilating the survivors. I'm also going on the reason he decided to call upon this attack for him taking the destruction of Earth civilization as a point. He's just really angry and vengeful. Nothing good can come of that. He's not thinking rationally. As I said it's not an actual scorched Earth tactic but dangerously close where theoretically, only the lands surrounding the landing castles and uninhabited areas wouldn't really be affected. A lot of earth's land mass is already gone due to Heaven's Fall. What Slaine is about to order would be devastating to what's already left. I don't see how you got "wipe out all civilization" when his anger is directed mainly towards a soldier, or high rank, not random people. That would make him no better than the monarchy, and then if that's the case there was no build up for that at all. Slaine NEVER showed genuine hate of that scale towards anybody. This is the same guy who saw Saaz (the guy he saved after he put Asshime in a coma) as a father figure, and while he says he killed his for Asshime (and we know that she's part of the reason, to be sure), we know he only did it because it was advantageous for his position, and he hated doing what he did. Slaine is NOT the emotional yandare type. It's been made clear for awhile now. |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: Slaine is NOT the emotional yandare type. It's been made clear for awhile now. It's not safe to write here because of all the hating, but the way he manages to hold himself together lately is admirable. |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: I don't see how you got "wipe out all civilization" when his anger is directed mainly towards a soldier, or high rank, not random people. That would make him no better than the monarchy, and then if that's the case there was no build up for that at all. Slaine NEVER showed genuine hate of that scale towards anybody. This is the same guy who saw Saaz (the guy he saved after he put Asshime in a coma) as a father figure, and while he says he killed his for Asshime (and we know that she's part of the reason, to be sure), we know he only did it because it was advantageous for his position, and he hated doing what he did. Slaine is NOT the emotional yandare type. It's been made clear for awhile now. He already showed great disdain for Terrans when he called them trash. It stands out because I instantly thought "Uncle Tom Slaine" since he IS Terran born... He had shown genuine hate towards Terrans. I was baffled by it too but noticed all of these really aggressive instances/words against Earth came after some incident where Asseylum didn't favor him in some way. So I'm convinced he's just running off pure negative emotions right now. As for Slaine not being the yandere type, for the majority of this series, I would say the same but last episode seemed to change all that with his hasty decision to attack the Earth. So that they know what it feels like to have no home to go back to? So they can feel isolated and alone like he feels? That's a terrible desire to want and extremely selfish. For others to suffer how you have. I'm not at war with anybody but I know there are something that have happened to me in life that I wouldn't wish on my enemies. The desire to take away their home is selfish and even evil. If Slaine's motivation was "Damn it, let's wrap up this war now and defeat the UEF so they can't infiltrate our moon base anymore", my reaction would be entirely different. Slaine went from a guy who was morally ambiguous to outright villain with that line. I hate it because it really threw all of Slaine's good intentions out of the window. I feel like the writers are intentionally doing this to justify his death in the end. I hate it and think it sucks but it does seem he is in full villain territory right now. Guess we will wait and see what happens next episode. deadoptimist said: Well, as I've said, I haven't lifted it from his words. He seemed still pretty stable to me, despite everything. And he positively didn't give out the order to annihilate or destroy, he simply ordered advancement and attack on UFE (not on the civillains or the land itself). But I don't feel like arguing too much over it. The only other thing I want to point out, that he undoubtedly must want to destroy the terran civilization in the sense of changing it completely and forever. If he would've suceeded in capturing Earth, the society that emerged had been wery different from botth current Earth in their universe and Vers. They'd get better tech and plenty of cheap energy, but also class system. Would've been extremely interesting to watch. How did I not see this? I'm sorry. Going to say the same above. You did remind me of something I have been wondering about. If Slaine wanted to change Terran civilization too, why would that be? I wish we were told why his father defected with him to vers. It would really shed some light of why Slaine preferred to stay amongst a people that hated him. |
MetaKiteMar 22, 2015 1:19 PM
| I know it's off topic, but do you two know when that Psycho Pass 2 movie will be subbed, or dubbed?? To be on topic, ha, Slaine got owned, perfect episode. |
| Jaywalker. |
Epicenter said: I know it's off topic, but do you two know when that Psycho Pass 2 movie will be subbed, or dubbed?? No, sorry, I am unaware. I assumed it's long since been subbed... (but I was simply not too interested, I guess) |
MetaKite said: As for Slaine not being the yandere type, for the majority of this series, I would say the same but last episode seemed to change all that with his hasty decision to attack the Earth. So that they know what it feels like to have no home to go back to? So they can feel isolated and alone like he feels? That's a terrible desire to want and extremely selfish. For others to suffer how you have. it's just that no matter what I read/hear/watch, ad especially watch, about war after an attack people often want to hurt the other side as bad or worse. We forget it, because the show is terrible at showing it, but the attacking terrans killed a lot of martians. Slaine's base is also filled with grief for the fallen. And it was somewhat of a cowardly covert strike, very bold for a side that is supposed to be the underdog (we so need to know the balance of forces, damn). Now, again, I only argue with the notion that he went nuts already. It will probably happen, but I don't think it has happened already. It doesn't look so outwardly at least. MetaKite said: How did I not see this? I'm sorry. Going to say the same above. You did remind me of something I have been wondering about. If Slaine wanted to change Terran civilization too, why would that be? I wish we were told why his father defected with him to vers. It would really shed some light of why Slaine preferred to stay amongst a people that hated him. It's sad that A.Z can't into motivations. I am interested in Slaine's progression a lot. Progressions of disillusionment in propaganda and war are pretty frequent. I am extremely interested in the less mainstream acceptance of the aggressor's role not out of concern for personal safety but for ideological reasons. It is very interesting to see why a person can get into a fight not of his own. The question of Slaine's identity is also very interesting. Actually he isn't a terran more than many versians. They are only 2 generations away from being terrans (though that does mean that they are more agrressive and protective in this regard), and he left Earth in early childhood. Btw, that makes his conversation with Saazbaum about food strange (the one, where he says that chicken is nothing special). He can't remember much of terran food. Either Cruteo fed him count grade, everyone on the castles eats the same as Saaz, or they've messed the characterization. It seems to me that Slaine must know very well what the nutritient sludge tastes like. So, I think his identity as a terran could've stuck only because of discrimination. He has been brought up on Mars, by martians and doesn't have anywhere on Earth to get back to. Both choices are open to him. But the one he did is morally more difficult. On the other hand his experience is unique, so it can be put as if he has seen both sides and haven't found a safe heaven on both, so he seeks to make one from a position of power. Or does he care for martians as it is implied? A question left unanswered. Edit: The fact that they offer Asseylum as the replacement explanation for all this thrilling ideological and psychological aspects drives me mad. |
deadoptimistMar 22, 2015 2:48 PM
| So many death flags... Now, that must have hurt, Slaine? |
deadoptimist said: it's just that no matter what I read/hear/watch, ad especially watch, about war after an attack people often want to hurt the other side as bad or worse. We forget it, because the show is terrible at showing it, but the attacking terrans killed a lot of martians. Slaine's base is also filled with grief for the fallen. And it was somewhat of a cowardly covert strike, very bold for a side that is supposed to be the underdog (we so need to know the balance of forces, damn). The Vers soldiers on Slaine's moon base were riled up. So was Slaine but he was very specific with his intentions. They were more than just retaliatory. Slaine meant to hit the Terrans where they hurt the most. It's why I think he wanted to destroy Earth civilization. As I said, he's running on pure rage right now. He needs to cool off and actually think about his actions. When people get mad, they may say or do things in the heat of the moment. Ordering a full on strike is in the heat of the moment but his reason (so they have no home to return to) was more sinister than just being angry. It's not something you can just say "oops, I'm sorry. I was just mad" after an action like that. deadoptimist said: Now, again, I only argue with the notion that he went nuts already. It will probably happen, but I don't think it has happened already. It doesn't look so outwardly at least. I don't think Slaine has actually gone insane just yet but he had been raging like a lunatic before Asseylum's broadcast cut him off. He definitely cracked however back when he realized Asseylum might actually die after he forced Saazbuam to save her. The series as at least taken the small steps to show us how Slaine has crept ever so close to the edge of that slippery slope he is on. deadoptimist said: It's sad that A.Z can't into motivations. I am interested in Slaine's progression a lot. Progressions of disillusionment in propaganda and war are pretty frequent. I am extremely interested in the less mainstream acceptance of the aggressor's role not out of concern for personal safety but for ideological reasons. It is very interesting to see why a person can get into a fight not of his own. The question of Slaine's identity is also very interesting. Actually he isn't a terran more than many versians. They are only 2 generations away from being terrans (though that does mean that they are more agrressive and protective in this regard), and he left Earth in early childhood. Btw, that makes his conversation with Saazbaum about food strange (the one, where he says that chicken is nothing special). He can't remember much of terran food. Either Cruteo fed him count grade, everyone on the castles eats the same as Saaz, or they've messed the characterization. It seems to me that Slaine must know very well what the nutritient sludge tastes like. So, I think his identity as a terran could've stuck only because of discrimination. He has been brought up on Mars, by martians and doesn't have anywhere on Earth to get back to. Both choices are open to him. But the one he did is morally more difficult. On the other hand his experience is unique, so it can be put as if he has seen both sides and haven't found a safe heaven on both, so he seeks to make one from a position of power. Or does he care for martians as it is implied? A question left unanswered. Edit: The fact that they offer Asseylum as the replacement explanation for all this thrilling ideological and psychological aspects drives me mad. I agree with everything you said. I originally thought when Slaine saved Saazbuam and more or less had sided with him, he had some sort of Stockholm Syndrome and so attached himself to Saaz. Of course this proved false when Slaine blew him up but it bothers me that it has never been clear why Slaine seemed to be happy as a whipping boy for Vers people to beat on. Staying by the princess side for love does not seem like a strong enough reason to put up with soooo much abuse. It would be nice to go more into Slaine's psyche and why he identifies with Vers. |
| Shit got real this week. I wonder what will happen. |
 |
| that ending was nice |
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| Ugh fuck. Why is this corpse of a princess even walking around. Somehow I feared this would happen when they kept a cryotubed princess as a do-it-all-ace to 180 the plot whenever they wanted to. Convenient Vers medical technology sure is convenient. |
| This is a whole new level of clusterfuck. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Slaine gets a royal pardon and ends up marrying Inko (Best Girl™) or some random shit like that, and Harklight turns out to be a Terran mole. |
| Eh, I hope they can conclude the anime next week without having a 3rd season or movie. Not really interested to see anymore of this. I think Inaho and Asseylum will either both live or both die together. |
| Terminaho is back But a new rival appears and that man repently will be the husband of the princess  |
| Gintama: "The blade is not to cut down your enemies Nor is it to cut away your own weakness A sword isnt meant to protect your body A sword is meant for protecting your soul" |
| Holy wow. Too sudden. Alright, so apparently Inaho is raising his own death flag, but I honestly don't want him to die at all, nor do I even want Slaine to die, I was actually feeling sorry for him at the end. Looks like the Emperor has some severe dementia, I actually hate this idiot more than anyone else on this show (R.I.P to his former VA, though). I'm not liking Asseylum right now as well, she's proven to be a naive girl with impossible pipe dreams so far, and there's only one episode left for her to prove me wrong. Seriously, will she ever grow up? This is why I like her sister more... Slaine was kinda starting to lose it with that all-out assault on Earth, though I'm not too happy he was stopped, since I'd rather see a battle, even if that means sacrificing what's left of his appeal. I have absolutely no idea how this will be wrapped up in one episode. Hopefully there's a chance that it won't be a rushed ending, that'll just give the lurkers on this forum even more of an excuse to spew all their hate out, not that they don't do it regularly... ever since episode 1. Yep. 4/5 No comment about the young Cruhteo. Came in, did nothing really special, and somehow managed to outrank Slaine and marry a Princess. Without. Even. Trying. |
~||Sky of the Night Light||~  |
| Well...now I don't know what to do without a ship. Who the fuck actually wants to ship Klankein and Asseylum? When that shit hit my screen I actually backtracked and watched it twice because I couldn't believe I just heard something so absurd. Fucking Eddelrittuo...that little monologue was totally wrong an unnecessary. "oh he never stopped caring for you and wanting what was best for you". Yeah, sure Eddy. That's exactly why Slaine: - Started a war using her persona. - Kept her locked up after she woke up - Prayed she never got her memories back - Said out loud that she was just a means to an end for his goals - Locked her up after she disagreed with him and his war What, he cared for her because he kept her in the tube until she woke up? Pretty sure Inaho, or even any other member of the Deucalion would've done the same thing. It feels like it's going to end next week. It almost guaranteed it's going to end next week. But it almost seems like they could milk this for another cour or movie if they wanted. Especially since we know literally nothing about Slaine Sr. and the history of Vers & Aldnoah. And I doubt they're going to explain all of that in the middle of an epic final battle. Now that Asseylum ruined her Inaho OTP ship, I honestly have no idea how this show is going to end. I was waiting for her to join up with the Deucalion this whole time, but I don't see that happening now that Inaho is friend-zoned. The writers of the show actually did some interview for a magazine that made it's way on to Haruhichan a while back, and the shipping wars were brought up, and they mentioned something like "Asseylum cares deeply for the both of them, but more as a friendship. She was raised in nobility and has a different way of thinking in terms of love" (something like that). Basically it sounded like they were both friend-zoned, but had room to grow. Seems like that was actually a big teaser spoiler alert. |
| Eijun defied Raiichi by keeping Asseylum away from him Haruchi's eye + Death Flag : 0 Asseylum is now Empress and gonna marry Eijun OMG |
| Asseylum became Empress and marry Klancain both Inaho and Slaine get friendzone lol Love the new ED Song Harmonious :D |
 |
| I've lost track of how many different agendas have been in motion but now there's only two left; Peace or war. People are going to die next week... |
| I say "I'm speechless" to tell you I want to say something though am not sure how... |
swn32 said: Jonesy974 said: Fucking Eddelrittuo...that little monologue was totally wrong an unnecessary. "oh he never stopped caring for you and wanting what was best for you". Yeah, sure Eddy. That's exactly why Slaine: - Started a war using her persona. - Kept her locked up after she woke up - Prayed she never got her memories back - Said out loud that she was just a means to an end for his goals - Locked her up after she disagreed with him and his war Seriously, wtf was that all about. That was the biggest load of BS i've seen in this show. And that's saying something. The bigger joke is that people are saying how that is wonderful character development. What a joke |
Jonesy974 said: Well...now I don't know what to do without a ship. Who the fuck actually wants to ship Klankein and Asseylum? When that shit hit my screen I actually backtracked and watched it twice because I couldn't believe I just heard something so absurd. Fucking Eddelrittuo...that little monologue was totally wrong an unnecessary. "oh he never stopped caring for you and wanting what was best for you". Yeah, sure Eddy. That's exactly why Slaine: - Started a war using her persona. - Kept her locked up after she woke up - Prayed she never got her memories back - Said out loud that she was just a means to an end for his goals - Locked her up after she disagreed with him and his war What, he cared for her because he kept her in the tube until she woke up? Pretty sure Inaho, or even any other member of the Deucalion would've done the same thing. It feels like it's going to end next week. It almost guaranteed it's going to end next week. But it almost seems like they could milk this for another cour or movie if they wanted. Especially since we know literally nothing about Slaine Sr. and the history of Vers & Aldnoah. And I doubt they're going to explain all of that in the middle of an epic final battle. Now that Asseylum ruined her Inaho OTP ship, I honestly have no idea how this show is going to end. I was waiting for her to join up with the Deucalion this whole time, but I don't see that happening now that Inaho is friend-zoned. The writers of the show actually did some interview for a magazine that made it's way on to Haruhichan a while back, and the shipping wars were brought up, and they mentioned something like "Asseylum cares deeply for the both of them, but more as a friendship. She was raised in nobility and has a different way of thinking in terms of love" (something like that). Basically it sounded like they were both friend-zoned, but had room to grow. Seems like that was actually a big teaser spoiler alert. Couple of things. 1. Saazbaum started the war using her persona. Slaine simply took over and continued to do so for what he believes is the greater good and he couldn't very well undo 19 months of warfare even if he wanted to, not with the Orbital Knights baying for blood after having been led on by Saauzbaum for so long. Slaine could have easily lost all influence if he, merely an adopted son of Saazbaum, had tried to call off the war, which would have probably been pointless anyway since the entire point of the show is about division and conflict. The Martians and Terrans would've been at each other's throats, inevitably so. 2. He kept Asseylum sequestered because she had just woken up from a 19 month coma with memory loss. 3. Asseylum saw some raw shit, he wanted her to forget it. Hardly unreasonable considering he loves her. 4. Said it outloud - just as Inaho hinted at doing.    Just because he said it, doesn't mean he meant it. The same goes for the anti-Terran rhetoric he's been spewing in the company of Orbital Knights and Lemrina. Slaine doesn't trust anybody so he simply pretends to be toeing the line where it matters. 5. He locked her up because she pulled a gun on him and jeopardised his ambitions - which were centred around her doing what's necessary for the greater good. And guess what Asseylum just did? She announced her engagement to Cruthteo Jr... for the greater good, i.e. she isn't all that different. Considering the UFE had a hit squad going after Asseylum, there is no telling what the Deucalion's orders would have been, and considering they kept Asseylum's presence on their ship a secret, they probably know that themselves. It's very possible, if not downright likely, that the UFE would have used Asseylum to their advantage. This is war after all, and one that they were losing. Eddelrittuo is completely right in stating Slaine hadn't changed, because, fundamentally, he hasn't. The writers elaborated last seasoned that he lives by one maxim: protecting Asseylum. Even when he was on his own, we witnessed Slaine murder, lie and spy to keep her safe from a distance. Saazbaum opened his eyes to some uncomfortable truths about the world and what ails it, why conflict is not only necessarily for survival, but also inevitable. Slaine simply decided he would do something about it whilst maintaining Asseylum's interests at the centre of his ambitions, with or without her approval, and that's exactly what he's done. This isn't hard to figure out once you take a step back and refrain from childish notions of good and evil in a war of survival. |
skudoops said: swn32 said: Seriously, wtf was that all about. That was the biggest load of BS i've seen in this show. And that's saying something. Context is important - He thought she wasn't going to wake up and as far as I can tell he was doing all this to fulfill her dream of coexistence between Vers and Earth - She had no memory when she woke up and had just recovered from a coma, at that point it only made sense for her to stay in the room and recover. He wasn't even using force to keep her locked up then. - He prayed she didn't get a memories back because of what he was doing and how he thought she'd react to his actions, not because he had some animosity toward her. - Obviously.. what else would he say at that point? If he really didn't like her he could have just killed her when she woke up and continued with this plan. It's not like the other princess would give a shit. - Again, at this point what should he do? If he lets her run around she would do exactly what she did in this episode. Publicly undermine him and more than likely cause a civil war within Vers. At the end of the day, despite his methods, he's doing all that for the princess. Which makes eddel whatever's little speech accurate. THat fact that you think any of that justifies the crap he's pulled is honestly concerning as all hell. It's like saying a stalker is right to keep the object of his obsession locked up for her own good while he does his own thing. That's the mentality that lets fuckin Twilight happen |
TheIMF said: Jonesy974 said: Well...now I don't know what to do without a ship. Who the fuck actually wants to ship Klankein and Asseylum? When that shit hit my screen I actually backtracked and watched it twice because I couldn't believe I just heard something so absurd. Fucking Eddelrittuo...that little monologue was totally wrong an unnecessary. "oh he never stopped caring for you and wanting what was best for you". Yeah, sure Eddy. That's exactly why Slaine: - Started a war using her persona. - Kept her locked up after she woke up - Prayed she never got her memories back - Said out loud that she was just a means to an end for his goals - Locked her up after she disagreed with him and his war What, he cared for her because he kept her in the tube until she woke up? Pretty sure Inaho, or even any other member of the Deucalion would've done the same thing. It feels like it's going to end next week. It almost guaranteed it's going to end next week. But it almost seems like they could milk this for another cour or movie if they wanted. Especially since we know literally nothing about Slaine Sr. and the history of Vers & Aldnoah. And I doubt they're going to explain all of that in the middle of an epic final battle. Now that Asseylum ruined her Inaho OTP ship, I honestly have no idea how this show is going to end. I was waiting for her to join up with the Deucalion this whole time, but I don't see that happening now that Inaho is friend-zoned. The writers of the show actually did some interview for a magazine that made it's way on to Haruhichan a while back, and the shipping wars were brought up, and they mentioned something like "Asseylum cares deeply for the both of them, but more as a friendship. She was raised in nobility and has a different way of thinking in terms of love" (something like that). Basically it sounded like they were both friend-zoned, but had room to grow. Seems like that was actually a big teaser spoiler alert. Couple of things. 1. Saazbaum started the war using her persona. Slaine simply took over and continued to do so for what he believes is the greater good and he couldn't very well undo 19 months of warfare even if he wanted to, not with the Orbital Knights baying for blood after having been led on by Saauzbaum for so long. Slaine could have easily lost all influence if he, merely an adopted son of Saazbaum, had tried to call off the war, which would have probably been pointless anyway since the entire point of the show is about division and conflict. The Martians and Terrans would've been at each other's throats, inevitably so. 2. He kept Asseylum sequestered because she had just woken up from a 19 month coma with memory loss. 3. Asseylum saw some raw shit, he wanted her to forget it. Hardly unreasonable considering he loves her. 4. Said it outloud - just as Inaho hinted at doing. Just because he said it, doesn't mean he meant it. The same goes for the anti-Terran rhetoric he's been spewing in the company of Orbital Knights and Lemrina. Slaine doesn't trust anybody so he simply pretends to be toeing the line where it matters. 5. He locked her up because she pulled a gun on him and jeopardised his ambitions - which were centred around her doing what's necessary for the greater good. And guess what Asseylum just did? She announced her engagement to Cruthteo Jr... for the greater good, i.e. she isn't all that different. Considering the UFE had a hit squad going after Asseylum, there is no telling what the Deucalion's orders would have been, and considering they kept Asseylum's presence on their ship a secret, they probably know that themselves. It's very possible, if not downright likely, that the UFE would have used Asseylum to their advantage. This is war after all, and one that they were losing. Eddelrittuo is completely right in stating Slaine hadn't changed, because, fundamentally, he hasn't. The writers elaborated last seasoned that he lives by one maxim: protecting Asseylum. Even when he was on his own, we witnessed Slaine murder, lie and spy to keep her safe from a distance. Saazbaum opened his eyes to some uncomfortable truths about the world and what ails it, why conflict is not only necessarily for survival, but also inevitable. Slaine simply decided he would do something about it whilst maintaining Asseylum's interests at the centre of his ambitions, with or without her approval, and that's exactly what he's done. This isn't hard to figure out once you take a step back and refrain from childish notions of good and evil in a war of survival. This is only a war of survival for the Terrans, for the martians its a war to conquer Earth. If the martians lose this war they will not go extinct or anything like that since their homeplanet has not been damaged directly by the war. If the terrans lose the war however, who knows what might happen, they might even go extinct. |
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Viktor_Otaku said: Okay how about we try and simplify it so that even you can understand. Lets just say your best friend is adamant of going swimming in a pond full of alligators even though he has zero experience on how to do so and he had also been attack by them several times due to carelessness. What are you gonna do? Stand there while holding banners and cheering him on or are you going to just strap him down on a stretcher while calling an mental institution cause he is clearly not right in the head. Choice is clear. That's nowhere near the same thing |
| Good episode calmer than the 10th. Asseylum is trying to stop the war but his grandfather his became crazy ... She decide to marry with Cruhteo, there is no other choice to her. It was good to see Asseylum stand up during the transmission. There is no doubt, it is the real princess :) |
| Hmmm. Well that happened so fast. It's so hard to end a war. Even relatives don't understand peace anymore. Asseylum seems to have finally broke out of her miss goody two-shoes attitude. Declaring herself to be the Empress of Vers and taking Klancain to be her husband. I wonder what'll be the end result in the next episode when the whole Vers Empire sees this as an act of treason against them. |
Raziel1991 said: This is only a war of survival for the Terrans, for the martians its a war to conquer Earth. If the martians lose this war they will not go extinct or anything like that since their homeplanet has not been damaged directly by the war. If the terrans lose the war however, who knows what might happen, they might even go extinct. Vers is a barren wasteland of red sand. Its long-term survival hinges on the procurement of Earth’s resources. If they lose this war, they will go extinct, eventually. Saazbaum made that clear. He also made it clear the antiquated feudal system is another problem that poses a threat to its future. Even if it weren’t through Saazbaum’s machinations, conflict was inevitable, and the manner in which the Orbital Knights responded to the apparent assassination of Asseylum demonstrated quite clearly their strong desire to go to war. The inevitability of conflict is and always has been out of Slaine’s power to influence. His solution is to create a new kingdom, one ruled by Asseylum, in which neither the Vers Empire nor the UFE matter. To that end he will do what he must. |
TheIMF said: Raziel1991 said: This is only a war of survival for the Terrans, for the martians its a war to conquer Earth. If the martians lose this war they will not go extinct or anything like that since their homeplanet has not been damaged directly by the war. If the terrans lose the war however, who knows what might happen, they might even go extinct. Vers is a barren wasteland of red sand. Its long-term survival hinges on the procurement of Earth’s resources. If they lose this war, they will go extinct, eventually. Saazbaum made that clear. He also made it clear the antiquated feudal system is another problem that poses a threat to its future. Even if it weren’t through Saazbaum’s machinations, conflict was inevitable, and the manner in which the Orbital Knights responded to the apparent assassination of Asseylum demonstrated quite clearly their strong desire to go to war. The inevitability of conflict is and always has been out of Slaine’s power to influence. His solution is to create a new kingdom, one ruled by Asseylum, in which neither the Vers Empire nor the UFE matter. To that end he will do what he must. Saazbaum never made that clear. Sure, he did say they lacked resources but he never said that the lack of resources was so critical that it would lead to their extinction, in fact he said that even if they seized Earth, its resources would go to the nobility and the lower classes would see no benefit at all. Just like Inaho said, the feudal system is their problem, victimizing the terrans, who have absolutly nothing to do with this problem is just morally wrong. The fact it was inevitable does not change the fact that the blood of millions of terrans is in their hands. This is really a good versus evil conflict, each martian of the week just proves this. Are you seriously telling me that characters like Trilliam are not "evil"? |
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Raziel1991 said: This is really a good versus evil conflict, each martian of the week just proves this. That's because the writing is shit. The Slaine's plotline disapproves of this - you don't have a whole plotline of a pure moustache twirling bad guy ever. That's why you, guys, hate it so much, I guess, you want the conflict to be black and white and simple. But the initial concept, the very fact of involvement of Urobuchi, a whole half of the show given to Vers and some feeble attempts at providing motivations prove otherwise. I am inclined to choose this interpretation also because it is way more interesting and in spirit of time (TSOIaF and so on). Btw, since I have been to tumblr, I must add, that it is full of the posts, that say that Slaine's line about using the princess is a mistranslation. Also even if you see him as a stalker that doesn't mean that he doesn't care about her. Maybe not the way she wants, but he, sadly, is implied to care a lot. |
deadoptimist said: Raziel1991 said: This is really a good versus evil conflict, each martian of the week just proves this. That's because the writing is shit. The Slaine's plotline disapproves of this - you don't have a whole plotline of a pure moustache twirling bad guy ever. That's why you, guys, hate it so much, I guess, you want the conflict to be black and white and simple. But the initial concept, the very fact of involvement of Urobuchi, a whole half of the show given to Vers and some feeble attempts at providing motivations prove otherwise. I am inclined to choose this interpretation also because it is way more interesting and in spirit of time (TSOIaF and so on). Btw, since I have been to tumblr, I must add, that it is full of the posts, that say that Slaine's line about using the princess is a mistranslation. Also even if you see him as a stalker that doesn't mean that he doesn't care about her. Maybe not the way she wants, but he, sadly, is implied to care a lot. The martians would have gotten at least some sympathy from me if they actually used some screen time to show the horrible situation their lower classes are supposed to be in but unfortunately that is never shown. |
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deadoptimist said: Raziel1991 said: This is really a good versus evil conflict, each martian of the week just proves this. That's because the writing is shit. The Slaine's plotline disapproves of this - you don't have a whole plotline of a pure moustache twirling bad guy ever. That's why you, guys, hate it so much, I guess, you want the conflict to be black and white and simple. But the initial concept, the very fact of involvement of Urobuchi, a whole half of the show given to Vers and some feeble attempts at providing motivations prove otherwise. I am inclined to choose this interpretation also because it is way more interesting and in spirit of time (TSOIaF and so on). Btw, since I have been to tumblr, I must add, that it is full of the posts, that say that Slaine's line about using the princess is a mistranslation. Also even if you see him as a stalker that doesn't mean that he doesn't care about her. Maybe not the way she wants, but he, sadly, is implied to care a lot. Even if he didn't say he's using her, that is exactly what he has been doing via Lemrina. That fact does not change whatsoever. Caring a lot doesn't give you the right to lock a person away and deprive them of their freedom just because your image of what's best for them contradicts theirs. |
Raziel1991 said: The martians would have gotten at least some sympathy from me if they actually used some screen time to show the horrible situation their lower classes are supposed to be in but unfortunately that is never shown. That's why I say that the writing is bad. The terrans motivation is self-evident, that's why we are ok on their part, even though they too never speak about the war and we don't see the suffering of civillians or even wounded military personnell besides the main cast (and they display it on a very low level). Darklight0303 said: Even if he didn't say he's using her, that is exactly what he has been doing via Lemrina. That fact does not change whatsoever. Caring a lot doesn't give you the right to lock a person away and deprive them of their freedom just because your image of what's best for them contradicts theirs. But you say that he doesn't care, and that's what I am arguing with. |
deadoptimist said: Raziel1991 said: The martians would have gotten at least some sympathy from me if they actually used some screen time to show the horrible situation their lower classes are supposed to be in but unfortunately that is never shown. That's why I say that the writing is bad. The terrans motivation is self-evident, that's why we are ok on their part, even though they too never speak about the war and we don't see the suffering of civillians or even wounded military personnell besides the main cast (and they display it on a very low level). Darklight0303 said: Even if he didn't say he's using her, that is exactly what he has been doing via Lemrina. That fact does not change whatsoever. Caring a lot doesn't give you the right to lock a person away and deprive them of their freedom just because your image of what's best for them contradicts theirs. But you say that he doesn't care, and that's what I am arguing with. He doesn't care for the real Asseylum. He cares for the Asseylum in his head. ALso let me point out a GIGANTIC flaw in the attempt to justify Slaine's actions. Let us go back to the state of things before the princess was shot shall we? To anyone outside of those closest to Sazbaum the princess was already dead. They already had the full support of the knights to conquer earth to avenge the princess. So then there was absolutely NO need to invent a fake Asseylum to promote the war. They already had the perfect support via the loyalists wanting to avenge their dead princess and the conspirators who framed earth to do it. And yet here we are now. With a fake Asseylum who has completely destroyed any of the real Asseylum's credibility and has been painted as a warmonger spurring her knights on to the point that Earth tried to have her killed. Now tell me why couldn't Sazbaum and Slaine just keep her locked away in a tube, secret from anyone but the inner circle. They used her. Both Sazbaum and Slaine. And nothing justifies it. They already had the perfect support base. In fact making a fake Asseylum is what will destroy them. |
Darklight0303Mar 23, 2015 4:59 AM
| ... at this point i just want to see the ancients who created Aldnoah. I would like to know more about them |
Darklight0303 said: So then there was absolutely NO need to invent a fake Asseylum to promote the war. They already had the perfect support via the loyalists wanting to avenge their dead princess and the conspirators who framed earth to do it. And yet here we are now. With a fake Asseylum who has completely destroyed any of the real Asseylum's credibility and has been painted as a warmonger spurring her knights on to the point that Earth tried to have her killed. Oh, there're at least three perfect reasons. 1) No matter what military force the uprising has, they need aldnoah. That's the decisive factor (that the ruling family usurps, lol). So if they show they have aldnoah, they tip the balance in their favor deciseively. 2) They sway loyalists and the doubtful this way. 3) Slaine was expecting her to gain concsiousness and reigh again. Wasnt' the idea of Saaz I bet. |
deadoptimist said: Darklight0303 said: So then there was absolutely NO need to invent a fake Asseylum to promote the war. They already had the perfect support via the loyalists wanting to avenge their dead princess and the conspirators who framed earth to do it. And yet here we are now. With a fake Asseylum who has completely destroyed any of the real Asseylum's credibility and has been painted as a warmonger spurring her knights on to the point that Earth tried to have her killed. Oh, there're at least three perfect reasons. 1) No matter what military force the uprising has, they need aldnoah. That's the decisive factor (that the ruling family usurps, lol). So if they show they have aldnoah, they tip the balance in their favor deciseively. 2) They sway loyalists and the doubtful this way. 3) Slaine was expecting her to gain concsiousness and reigh again. Wasnt' the idea of Saaz I bet. Except the knights of the castles CAN already do that. They only need Aldnoah power to make NEW knights. Did you forget that Sazbaum activated Tharsis for Slaine just fine WITHOUT the princess? 2: The loyalists and doubtful were already swayed since the princess was supposed to have been brutally murdered by the villainous Terrans. So what if Slaine expected her to wake up. That still doesn't make using a fake asseylum to tarnish her image a good move. |
Raziel1991 said: Saazbaum never made that clear. Sure, he did say they lacked resources but he never said that the lack of resources was so critical that it would lead to their extinction, in fact he said that even if they seized Earth, its resources would go to the nobility and the lower classes would see no benefit at all. Just like Inaho said, the feudal system is their problem, victimizing the terrans, who have absolutly nothing to do with this problem is just morally wrong. The fact it was inevitable does not change the fact that the blood of millions of terrans is in their hands. This is really a good versus evil conflict, each martian of the week just proves this. Are you seriously telling me that characters like Trilliam are not "evil"? Saazbaum didn't spell it out but he didn't need to as that was an obvious conclusion. Note, I didn't speak of specific individuals besides Slaine. Trilliam was obviously evil, he had nefarious intentions. Slaine does not. Slaine wants to create a future free of the troubles the ail the present. His intentions are not evil, and his methods are not so severe that they warrant a classification any more severe than "necessary evils." If you want to validate your favouring of one side over another by apply such pedestrian labels as "good" and "evil," then be my guest, but that is not fact. That is your own, subjective opinion, and in respect of a conflict for survival, such terms fall short of appreciating nuance. There is little merit to discussing this with you so long as you insist on maintaining such a simplisitic interpretation on the narrative. |
| But the narrative is truly that simple. The series has shown the martians doing terrible shit like wiping out the population of entire cities (New Orleans in episode 1) and attacking ships with refugees. On top of that the every martian the Deucalion crew has fought so far has been the very definition of a one dimensional villain and like I said before the series does not even spend any screen time to show the horrible situation the lower classes in vers are supposed to be in. Even if his intention themselfs are not evil his actions are without a doubt evil, his impossible utopia is costing the lives millions of terrans. Ends do not justify the means. |
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