People complaining about mushoku

-Ryu said:
I'm glad fans of this garbage are straight up admitting only degenerates can enjoy this and everyone else (mentally sane people) are just tourists who have normie SJW snowflake opinions such as "slavery is evil"

PeripheralVision said:
I understand that Rudeus is supposed to be flawed, but for me personally, he is too flawed. It is one thing for a Soprano-esque series or even a Happy Sugar Life scenario where the protaganist is essentially the villain of the series, but Rudeus is supposed to be understood as a flawed but good person. 

So yeah, I think if something Rudeus does is not portrayed in a positive light, it is portrayed in a forgiving light, because the narrative views him as being heroic at heart. The issue is that what he does is either not forgiveable or more importantly, he is just a better looking version of Mineta from Boku No hero Academia.

Regarding the controversy
Yeah, I understand it. At least Naofumi thought that the oppression of the demi-humans was wrong and if I recall correctly, seeked to emanicpate them from the humans. Rudeus not having any strong opinions on this, with the context of a pedophile purchasing an underage slave girl, does come off as "sus".

That, and what the fuck is up between making any sort of moral distinction between slavery and kidnapping? That makes no fucking sense. Are we seriously going to say Rudeus is not morally bankrupt or inconsistent at this point?
The Rising of Shield Hero is rightfully criticized, honestly. I am not saying it should be censored or banned, but clearly the slavery aspect of Naofumi and Raphtalia is romanticized to push the romantic shipping in the audience's face. I understand the in-world context for the relationship, but between not giving Raphtalia any real long term narrative purpose or arc besides being Naofumi's awesome cheerleader and the fantasies many people have in the real world, and it all just comes as pandering to a waifu fantasy for many fans. If you are going to have a character have screentime, give them something meaningful to do.

I think if you have her more to do, then the complaints would lessen, but having nothing to do seemingly describes the entirety of the second season as it does Post-Aizen Bleach.

Risa92 said:


So people shouldn't discuss the morality of cartoons, but with say, novels its fine? It's part of the normal curriculum of schools to discuss the meaning of novels and other media since humanity always put feelings, ideas, dreams and of course ideologies too into art.

So why shouldn't we do the same with cartoons? Is there any reasonable explanation for it? And why are people, who don't view them just as source of entertainment or want to discuss in general are ... a braindead tourist?
If anything, you are putting an art form and authors down, if you try to shut up others from discussing their art in more depth.

Also you stated "I'm for gatekeeping" as well and I'm curious how you want to enforce that? No adult with bit of self-worth leaves a fandom or any form of space, just because some people want them to shut up. The idea you are even able to gatekeep people is absolutely unreasonable.




I see, absolutely.

logopolis said:


I don't know what you're imagining, but the fandom which complained about things like Uranus and Neptune being made cousins in the Sailor Moon dub would not have been comfortable with slave-owning protagonists either. Anime fans have always been mostly socially progressive, no matter what horrors some corners of the internet have bred.

And yes, this is a huge problem with it. While it's not like it's absolutely forbidden for an anime to have a slave-owning protagonist, any such anime has to portray this as very clearly wrong. Slavery is not the kind of thing you get to be neutral about.



You don't see Now and Then, Here and There being criticised for slavery as a plot element. Because it clearly understands that slavery is bad. (And the protagonist doesn't participate...)



More like "being portrayed as no big deal, not an irrecoverable moral failing, because..."

ShatteredSans said:
Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I'm pretty sure that when the other heroes found out that Naofumi was using a slave, they all shunned him for it, and used it as further fuel for their hatred of him, this time for something he actually did, rather than something he was just falsely accused of. I think Naofumi even tried removing the slave crest, only for Raphtalia to put it back on purely because she was in love with him.

I definitely think it could've been handled better than it was, but IIRC it's already portrayed as a bad thing,

and as a last resort.

Piromysl said:
You sir, are a living, breathing stereotype.

-Ryu said:
Guys is it stereotypical to think slavery is wrong? I don't want people to think I'm a normie and shit

TsutanaiFuun said:
i don't remember people getting this heated up about slavery when tate no yuusha came out? was it just forgotten about among the rape accusations part?

Risa92 said:


I'd understand that argument, if they hated almost every single anime out there and complain about everything, but that's not the case with most people, who are complaining.
Also I often have some elements I didn't like in my favorite series too. It's not just "either you like everything single piece of it" or "I hate it" and nothing inbetween.




I think the problem was more like he only bought Raphtalia out of his hatred for women at first. He didn't come across the slavery scene and felt sorry for Raphtalia, so he planned to free her right away. Which could be discussed too, but he was nowhere in political power of stopping slavery at that point.
He bought her with the goal to own a slave, because he thought the only women you can trust are slaves.

Which too might make up an interesting plot, if... the plot wouldn't indirectly say he's right? Raphtalia wants her slave crest BACK. She's not in a state of: he gave me freedom, but I still stay by his side as a free person... uhm, no.
That's not really portrayed either as "she is used to the life of being a slave, that's why she only can views herself as such", but I don't know if she gets it removed later. It's not only a symbol either, it gives electric shocks...
Also he didn't had to agree, he could have denied to put back the crest and offered her to stay with him on her own.

Piromysl said:


Projecting own's insecurities, putting word in someone's mouth, somehow trying to take a moral highground and being upset because other people put other standards to fiction and real life is VERY stereotypical.



I think yes. Shield Hero aired during the height of #MeToo era and some people went very defensive, because their political weapon took a hit. It definitely was prioritized.

ShatteredSans said:
Maybe I'm misremembering it, but in the anime, I thought he only got Raphtalia because he had no other options. No one wanted to join his party, especially after he was falsely accused of sexual assault by someone who hates shield heroes specifically for a reason that I don't really remember, but was probably really stupid. But he needed someone in his party in order to level up.

Beyond that though, I agree. Raphtalia shouldn't have put the slave crest back on, and Naofumi shouldn't have allowed her to do so. Aside from the obviously problematic implications of a slave deciding that it's better to remain a slave than to be free, I feel like it'd be more compelling if she chose to stay by his side despite being free, rather than deciding that it was better to be his slave so that she could physically never betray him.

logopolis said:


What you've just described is a pro-slavery message. The people who are strongly against it are bad, the SLAVE is all for it, and the protagonist becomes convinced of it. That's exactly how you do pro-slavery propaganda.



Yeah, I know what "last resort" means, it's right-wing code for "what we want to do as soon as possible". There are absolutely no circumstances under which slavery is remotely acceptable. This shouldn't even have to be said. Anybody who thinks it is a "last resort" needs to be feared the way you fear neo-Nazis.

Piromysl said:
Projecting own's insecurities, putting word in someone's mouth, somehow trying to take a moral highground and being upset because other people put other standards to fiction and real life is VERY stereotypical. Literally nobody in this thread condoned slavery and if you think they did, they definitely did not meant real life.
Whining and complaining about drops of ink on paper are being mistreated by other drops of ink on paper won't make you a good person.

ShatteredSans said:

Yeah, when you frame it that way, I can definitely see how it comes off as a pro-slavery message. I still don't think that's what was intended though, because I'd assume that slavery as a concept isn't much more popular in Japan than it is here in the US. (Idk for sure though, cause I don't live in Japan, and I don't know what Japanese people think.)

Risa92 said:

It too is quite stereotypical for anime fans to think that art doesn't really mean anything beyond being mere entertainment made out of ink and moving pictures, and isn't a mirror or a visualization of people's thoughts and ideas.

-Ryu said:
I never said you or anyone else who posted in this thread is condoning slavery, but some people here sure are saying having a problem with a series (and its author) condoning slavery is supposed to be some SJW snowflake thing. In fact, using the "it's just fiction" excuse whenever people call something like that out about an anime is way more stereotypical than anything I said.

Risa92 said:
It too is quite stereotypical for anime fans to think that art doesn't really mean anything beyond being mere entertainment made out of ink and moving pictures, and isn't a mirror or a visualization of people's thoughts and ideas.

Piromysl said:
Author literally said in his official statement, that he DOES NOT condone slavery, his characters are just a vessels used to tell a story, nothing more and in no way shape or form reflect his views on the matter.
I'll give you a benefit of the doubt and assume, that you fell for ANN misinformation and and lies, because they have a history of doing so.
And "it's just fiction" is not a stereotype, but something any mentally stable person acknowledges. If you seriously think that someone will be negatively influenced by what was shown in this episode other than some snowflakes' feelings on Twitter, then you are delusional.

Risa92 said:
See, that's why your view is stereotypical for anime fans. You just try to be edgy and wow, you have such good arguments and calling people with more thought arguments than you bring up, tourists.
You don't seem to understand in more depth implications media has and only judge by the topic of slavery itself, not what the story tries to say about it. Can't see reasonable complaints about Vinland Saga.

rsc-pl said:

That heavy backlash is nothing but loud snowflake minority. Typical tourism. It's just beyond my understanding that someone is bothered by slavery in fictional fantasy setting. Also, my country never enslaved any people so I can't even relate to this in any way. And even if, why should I? It's a fiction. These snowflakes are not bothered by killing, gore etc, but slavery and their usual other "controversial" themes. OHNONONONO.

They bought a slave in anime where there are slavery markets? Okay. It's a part of the story. Simple as this.

-Ryu said:
So he doesn't condone slavery, but he writes a story with a protagonist that comes from a world where historically slavery had negative repercussions on society that are felt even even to this day, but when he sees it happening in another world all he has to say is "oh yeah, slavery, that exists" and he also gets a loli slave for himself? Yeah, seems consistent. lol

ANN does have a history of lying, but I'm not sure where's the lie on this news, they literally just translated his tweets on the matter and both of them were him making light of the subject and doing a horrible job at justifying his protagonist's views by saying he somehow views kidnapping as something bad, but not slavery, which makes zero sense.

And nah, "it's just fiction" is just a lazy way to excuse a work of fiction from criticism on its bad portrayal of a sensitive topic without having to actually talk about what said work of fiction is doing. I don't think someone will be negatively influenced by Mushoku Tensei's depiction of slavery or anything like that, but I am allowed to say the portrayal is garbage and it certainly feels like the story is condoning, or at the very least making light of the topic.

rsc-pl said:
That heavy backlash is nothing but loud snowflake minority. Typical tourism. It's just beyond my understanding that someone is bothered by slavery in fictional fantasy setting. Also, my country never enslaved any people so I can't even relate to this in any way. And even if, why should I? It's a fiction. These snowflakes are not bothered by killing, gore etc, but slavery and their usual other "controversial" themes. OHNONONONO.

They bought a slave in anime where there are slavery markets? Okay. It's a part of the story. Simple as this.

Piromysl said:
Imagine that I have to literally remind people, that characters are literally just a vessels used to tell a story, not real people that should be held accountable to real life standards.
Ruseus might came from different world, but he is currently in different culture. Last time, Twitter told us that we are not supposed to judge other cultures for their customs.
I also find it amusing, that seemingly morally correct option would be to let loli rot there and remain miserable for test of the life, but instead he decided to feed, clothe her and give her a purpose in life.
It's like saying that Dr Schultz it's a total scumbag, because he bought both Django and Brunhilda and him treating them with respect rrelevant.
Unlike certain people I'm not hyperfixating and desperately digging for negative aspects just to be offended.
You also conviniently omit, that Ruseus literally liberated few slaves back in the first season, which kinda damages your point. Why the hell would he do that if he is pro slavery? Yeah, totally makes sense.

ANN literally used Google translated tweet, which is inaccurate more times than not and then paraphrased this poor translation into their article. This is poor journalism at best.

And for the last time, fictional works are NOT an endorsement of real life beliefs. If you can't handle subject matter, then it's a "you" problem.
And I'm pretty sure you have no idea what slavery would look like in a medieval based fantasy world, where life is cheap, might makes right and weakest are the lowest.

-Ryu said:

That's because the series is written in a way that we're supposed to side with the main character, so him getting a slave and treating her well despite still having her as a slave will be considered something good since the other choice is her being left to rot, there's no nuance to this portrayal of slavery or anything. Compare this to something like that Majo no Tabitabi episode with a slave girl, where Elaina clearly shows discomfort about how the city mayor treats that girl and she even threatens to use her magic to hurt him, but she ultimately decides not to do anything because hurting or killing the mayor would have major negative repercussions for the town as a whole, not to mention his son and the slave girl who will now be left to fend for herself since she's not gonna take her along in the travels or anything like that. This episode portrays slavery in a negative light and how changing a slave's reality is not simple, the ending has some really dark implications too. It's not about having the subject matter at all, it's about how it's handled, and it seems like you believe people hate MT because of the subject matter being and not because of how it's handled.

Also, how does Rudeus freeing slaves in the first season help? If anything, it just shows that the writing is inconsistent, he frees slaves, but suddenly now he's okay with slavery, by the author's own words he doesn't view it as evil.

FanofAction said:
Made a mistake paying attention to complaints on the internet. A lot of the time it's not worth the brain power. I know because I make that same mistake more often than I care to.

Zettaiken said:
Slavery is always a controversy no matter of the medium and mainstream have nothing to do with it, as long as there are snowflakes and SJWs.

I've heard recently that style of view on anime, as expected went to alt acc

ShatteredSans said:
But I think you're completely misinterpreting my point about it being a last resort. It's not some right-wing code or anything like that (at least, not in the context that I'm using it), it's actually a last resort for Naofumi in the story, because no one will join his party, and he needs other party members to level up, because his basic shield doesn't have any offensive capabilities, and he needs to be able to level up in-order to survive the waves of calamity, let alone fighting them off (which is the whole point of him being summoned to that world in the first place).

logopolis said:


With things like this, it's important to avoid falling into the trap of going over all the things in the story which act to justify the event, and just ask yourself: why did the author write all these things into their story such that he had to buy a slave in the first place?

bledsoe60 said:
I complain because the mc is a disgusting piece of shit who assault young girls. I haven't even gotten to the slavery part but I'm sure it's more the way they are doing it than the sheer fact of slavery. Mushoku has a way of making everything more despicable. My guess is you are just letting your dick talk, and have some sexual fantasies you are using this show to live out.

logopolis said:


With things like this, it's important to avoid falling into the trap of going over all the things in the story which act to justify the event, and just ask yourself: why did the author write all these things into their story such that he had to buy a slave in the first place?

MrRogersWife said:

Ah jeez. An MC who sexually assaults children and buys slaves. No wonder so many folks here seem desperate to defend the show.