DigiCat said: Orange_is_White said: I don't know why some people have concerns or problems with LGBT folks or darker skinned characters appearing in anime. They exist outside of America (including Japan), so I don't see how their inclusion in anime (as well as "western" television) causes some peeps to get all riled up. It's not their inclusion that riles people up, but people want them to be well written, when they're included just for the sake of having them there usually not much thought is put into character developement If that were true, then why do those same folks get in a tizzy before the piece of media is released? Wouldn't they have to wait until after the release to know if a character was well written or not? Just off the top of my head Star Wars Ep VII, Death Note live action, The Last of Us 2, Captain Marvel, and Black Panther caused uproars before they were released because of casting choices. How can people be complaining about the writing being bad before they've even see the released media? |
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| No, I don't care about representation at all. If the artists wants to do it, that's their thing, but it's not really something I think is important, when assessing the work. |
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
| Not really, I just want anime to stop giving black people exaggerated lips and dreads all the fucking time Also anyone that genuinely hates seeing people of all races/genders/etc on screen probably hates them irl too, just sayin |
| hey |
Orange_is_White said: Star Wars Ep VII Star Wars ep VII never caused an uproar because of casting choices, what did upset some fans was that it chose a different path rather than following the expanded univers, now liking the story or not is subjective, but there's no denying ep. VII is a well made movie, ep. VIII on the other hand got butchered for it's shit directing Orange_is_White said: Death Note live action Like 99% of live action anime adaptations, and honestly after seeing that clip of Light screaming his nuts off at the sight of Ryuk there's no way you'll ever convince me Netflix's Death Note wasn't a parody Orange_is_White said: The Last of Us 2 Complaints came after people played the game, the complaints were's about Abbey being a female lead, but about the writing Orange_is_White said: Captain Marvel Now this is a little more complicated, as the complaints that came out before the movie's release had nothing to do with the quality of the movie, but with Brie Larson doing a bunch of dumb shit that made her come off as pretty unlikeble, honestly i don't know what got into her on the Endgame press tour, i've seen other interviews of hers and when she's calm and talking about her passions and hobbies she's just a normal sane person, maybe it's nerves that get to her when working on a big project Orange_is_White said: Black Panther 😂😂😂 Black Panther did not have backlash because of casting choices, the movie's set in Wakanda, of course most of the cast will be black, this actually proves the opposite since it's a very popular and beloved movie Black Panther 2 on the other hand is having a bit of drama, but that's also down to Marvel loosing the trust of it's fans |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
| Voted no, but I'd be interested to see more unique stories of people from different parts of society or with different life experiences and non-stereotyped characters and less archetypal characters. And if I was a Korean Japanese, Filipino Japanese or whatever who grew up in Japan, I'd probably be glad to see a story that reflects my experiences, whether it be in an anime, jdrama or movie and if it happens I'll be glad for them. If there are any unfair barriers blocking non-Japanese from being in Japanese media (as actors, voice actors or illustrators), I'd like to see those gone. I just read your post...you as a Slav living wherever you live are irrelevant to Japan (no offense), because you're not from Japan. It's totally different to someone raised in America or raised in Japan but not represented in the media of their own country, which people will naturally think about, because they naturally notice it. Representation can also have positive societal effects in terms of inspiring people, making people feel more part of a society, so it's worth discussing. There's also small things, like I like a lot of Japanese (and Korean) music and the reason that happened is because I was trying to figure out wtf to do with my hair, but there were no famous people with hair like mine in the media in my country, so I was always trying to style my hair in a way that didn't work for it. A lot of the discussion around representation is also not about representation itself, but about fair opportunities, like not being type-casted based on race, with the poor representation being a symptom of that. Even in the 2000s, some American producers avoided scripts with American characters who weren't White or Black, because they thought it wouldn't sell. But this is getting away from anime. It's a bit weird there are so many topics about this on MAL, considering I've literally never heard of anyone forcing diversity into anime anyway. Feels like a moral panic. I think we will see a little more diversity and non-caricatured depictions of non-Japanese (eg you seen Toriyama's designs of black people in DB/Z? lol) in anime in the future though, because Japan is becoming more receptive to the huge international audience of anime and finally able to make money from it (with all the streaming site deals). Hopefully it won't be "forced" (to me "forced" would be if a bad plot is chosen ahead of a better plot, just because it has non-Japanese characters). |
"The f**ker who goes round beating people to a pulp. He thinks it'll never happen to himself. But there's gonna be a day when the f**ker gets f**king beaten to a pulp too. But that day's f**king today and the guy doing the beating is a f**king c**t." - Sang-hoon, Breathless (2009)    |
Forced representation? Helll no! Representation/inclusion/diversity just for it's own sake (or for the sake of the screeching weirdos) will often ruin a good story. If someone wants all that, maybe they should write a story that has it and then commission it to be animated. Oh wait... High Guardian Spice happened... yeah, nevermind. Bad idea. |
 You're never too old to watch anime. If I ever stop watching anime, check my pulse I'm likely dead. I wake up with coffee & anime, I go to sleep with coffee & anime. Sorry if my sarcasm is bad, it's not my first language. |
| I honestly don't care as long the story use that representation as a complement to the story/characters and not just as a decoration |
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| God yes. As LBTBBQ I need to be in all forms of media and you better not start shit or I will destroy your social media life. SLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY |
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.  |
| I'm not personally starved for representation, unlike others. |
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| You can hardly ignore the connotation the term "forced representation" has in this instance, is this perhaps a poll made to get only one answer. What would "forced representation" be to the average Japanese person. Would it be to see Japanese minority groups or non Japanese people on screen in a animated television series. Would it be "forced" to see any country outside of Japan animated. Is space "forced" representation, space isn't Japan after all. Would "forced" in terms of representation be minority groups showing on screen at all. Is gay characters being gay "forced", is the appearance of trans characters "forced". In what context would an anime showcasing an intrinsic feature of humanity such as race, gender or sexuality be "forced". Is it when these things are portrayed in a negative light or are these things the negative. What is this illusive "appropriate context". Seems like this topic is tilting at windmills. |
KumiveneellaNov 6, 2022 10:06 PM
| @Kumiveneella It's simple. Forced is when you expect or even demand representation when it's not something authors have in mind. There are myriad of different ethnicities, cultures and personal traits out there, but most of them don't care they aren't represented in Japanese (or any other) media. It only becomes "problematic" when there are not enough representation by modern Western standard. So yeah, it's a yes or no question - whether you are interested in letting creators do what they want or forcing them to fill some racial/sexual checkbox list. |
-Shizuna- said: @Kumiveneella It's simple. Forced is when you expect or even demand representation when it's not something authors have in mind. There are myriad of different ethnicities, cultures and personal traits out there, but most of them don't care they aren't represented in Japanese (or any other) media. It only becomes "problematic" when there are not enough representation by modern Western standard. So yeah, it's a yes or no question - whether you are interested in letting creators do what they want or forcing them to fill some racial/sexual checkbox list. Who exactly is holding these authors at gunpoint, where does the force to force come from. Why take issue in these fans who want to see themselves represented, it's not like they're holding creators at gunpoint. Edit: as a matter of fact they are sometimes represented in works. I see now that I wrote the same thing twice. Kind of stupid but I don't really care. Actually no it still makes sense. |
KumiveneellaNov 7, 2022 3:02 PM
| no i don't really care about representation |
| all i care in anime is a good plot and animation, the rest can f off |
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| I don't ever sit here watching anime and thinking, damn, if only there was representation for me. Whenever my country is mentioned or there are characters in my country, I get hyped. |
| Go check out my latest review: https://myanimelist.net/profile/YeeYeeAss/reviews |
| No because I’m being represented plenty already. |
| That's just my opinion. |
DigiCat said: Orange_is_White said: Star Wars Ep VII Star Wars ep VII never caused an uproar because of casting choices, what did upset some fans was that it chose a different path rather than following the expanded univers, now liking the story or not is subjective, but there's no denying ep. VII is a well made movie, ep. VIII on the other hand got butchered for it's shit directing Orange_is_White said: Death Note live action Like 99% of live action anime adaptations, and honestly after seeing that clip of Light screaming his nuts off at the sight of Ryuk there's no way you'll ever convince me Netflix's Death Note wasn't a parody Orange_is_White said: The Last of Us 2 Complaints came after people played the game, the complaints were's about Abbey being a female lead, but about the writing Orange_is_White said: Captain Marvel Now this is a little more complicated, as the complaints that came out before the movie's release had nothing to do with the quality of the movie, but with Brie Larson doing a bunch of dumb shit that made her come off as pretty unlikeble, honestly i don't know what got into her on the Endgame press tour, i've seen other interviews of hers and when she's calm and talking about her passions and hobbies she's just a normal sane person, maybe it's nerves that get to her when working on a big project Orange_is_White said: Black Panther 😂😂😂 Black Panther did not have backlash because of casting choices, the movie's set in Wakanda, of course most of the cast will be black, this actually proves the opposite since it's a very popular and beloved movie Black Panther 2 on the other hand is having a bit of drama, but that's also down to Marvel loosing the trust of it's fans - there were definitely some folks who were getting angsty when the lead roles for Ep VII we're shown to be a black man and white women and how Disney was going to use Star Wars to "push an agenda." I'm sure some folks weren't happy about Disney blowing up the extended universe either, but many people weren't happy with the choices made for the lead roles. - Death Note's caught flak after it's trailer release because L was black, plain and simple. The YouTube video's comments had to be cleaned up numerous times because the hate and vitriol aimed at L. Any other problems with the trailer were of secondary concern for a large chunk of people. - Similarly, the complaints against TLOU2 only started when a trailer showed two girls kissing. TLOU1 was beloved and everyone agrees they liked the story, so there was no reason to believe that the team would just drop the ball on the sequel with it's writing. Yet people flamed for months because of this. - Fair point in Captain Marvel. People didn't like the actress, not the fact that she was a woman. - Most folks were excited to see the first major mostly-black movie, but there was an undercurrent out there with some people concerned that large, black casts would be the future of movies. I was off on Captain Marvel, but the other examples I mentioned (and many more I didn't mention) the complaints made against the media came before it was released, so it doesn't make sense that they were complaining about the writing. With the "criticism" overwhelming being made towards the race, gender, and sexual identity of the actors or characters, it definitely feels like people are angry at representation simply existing rather than poor writing. |
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| No. Then directors will start putting MC's who identify themselves as a fridge. |
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| Forced? Nope. Written in as a character because the writer(s) wanted it that way and thought it would be cool/interesting? Sure. |
Peak Bulgarian male representation. |
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Okay, this completely caught me off guard and I wanna watch it. |
KitsuFrostNov 7, 2022 10:08 AM
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Orange_is_White said: how Disney was going to use Star Wars to "push an agenda." This complaint actually only came up big time with ep. VIII, with the director even admiting and promoting the movie as pushing an agenda Orange_is_White said: Death Note's caught flak after it's trailer release because L was black, plain and simple Yes, because L was race swapped, race swapping is considered a cheap copout to gain representation without putting the work in to create a new character Personally i don't really care if an actor is playing a character that's a different race frm their own, so long as they do a good job in that role, good recent example is Aldis Hodge (black) as Hawkman (white) in Black Adam, he was awesome in that role and looked great in the Hawkman suit Most people are fine if the actor doesn't look exactly like the character, but they want the actors to get cast for their talent, not for their skin color What's happening with some modern movie productions is they need to fill a quota of x amount women, x amount black people, ecc., that's basically telling black people "we're reserving roles for you becuse your talent can't compete with white people", that is offensive AF |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
| This is just a sign that western media doesn't want the LGBTKSLALKDPQPQ919WO&!€+91¥×7 to be accepted. They want to shove their ideals down the throat of the usual citizen. |
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DigiCat said: Going off topic here but it has been a thing in Hollywood movies for a while to have a cast that is safe and hooks as many people as possible, so yeah quotas. Not really modern issue. Your most basic action Hollywood movie's cast is white male lead, white female character as potential love interest and one black male supporting character. I have heard/read more complains about it, rather than people praising it. But Hollywood has had long history of racism, so this isn't that much news.What's happening with some modern movie productions is they need to fill a quota of x amount women, x amount black people, ecc., that's basically telling black people "we're reserving roles for you becuse your talent can't compete with white people", that is offensive AF However I could argue there is similar logic in basic battle shonen story, where you usually have supporting female character alongside male lead. |
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| Japan's population is 98% ethnic Japanese, so seems to me people are represented just fine |
| If people want representation then they need to be creative and write and make their own things to represent themselves. Forcing or expecting others to do it for you is not the way to go and you'll end up with a lackluster product. Maybe for them there is some people just like them that'll create this as well, but it all seems to come down to arrogance and people wanting more of how or who they are to be in this world. That's why there's been wars throughout ages for race and religion because it's so important for many people to keep other people purely like them. Maybe it's natural instinct or survival mode or wanting to pass on some sort of legacy as proof of your existence which drives this reasoning, but there's such a grand variety in people, it's impossible to just be one or even a few things. But it's really hard to say since I may be hypocritical if I was in the same position and stopped seeing some similar to me. I don't mind if everything got replaced with lesbian females in every anime for now on, but if it was gay male in every anime going forward and no more straight couples, that might be hard to get used to since I usually avoid any sort of BL or yaoi anime. |
| Do I care about representation? Should I care about it if the producers pick and choose what and who to represent while at the same time ignore other underrepresented group? Like I identified as a Raciest Douchbag, yet all my representations are always in the negative light, how fair is that? Orange_is_White said: DigiCat said: It's not their inclusion that riles people up, but people want them to be well written, when they're included just for the sake of having them there usually not much thought is put into character developement If that were true, then why do those same folks get in a tizzy before the piece of media is released? Wouldn't they have to wait until after the release to know if a character was well written or not? Just off the top of my head Star Wars Ep VII, Death Note live action, The Last of Us 2, Captain Marvel, and Black Panther caused uproars before they were released because of casting choices. How can people be complaining about the writing being bad before they've even see the released media? The Last of Us 2: I never saw people complain about the writing before everything was leaked, most of the time they were complaining about the poor and bad business practice like hiting people on the head with the idea that Elle is Gay which is a bad bussniss practice since that only made the gae get banned I never came across anyone who complains about the writing of Black Panther or star wars in short: people were complaining about the way these stuff where advirtized which didn't paint the writting in posotive light, and in the case of TLOU2 , Caption Marvel and Star wars, IT ALL TURNED TO BE TRUE, Shocker huh? |
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Orange_is_White said: DigiCat said: It's not their inclusion that riles people up, but people want them to be well written, when they're included just for the sake of having them there usually not much thought is put into character developement If that were true, then why do those same folks get in a tizzy before the piece of media is released? Wouldn't they have to wait until after the release to know if a character was well written or not? Just off the top of my head Star Wars Ep VII, Death Note live action, The Last of Us 2, Captain Marvel, and Black Panther caused uproars before they were released because of casting choices. How can people be complaining about the writing being bad before they've even see the released media? There's a special feel to it. You can tell a difference between it feeling natural or forced. ...and they were right about all of those, so... lol |
| No, I want nothing forced. I've always said it about LGTBQ characters and how they're represented in western media. They're cookie cutter stereotypes that are hallow and are just there as markers for the community they represent. They have no character. They have no personality. They have nothing. It is wrong by all accounts, to repackage established characters that had no strains, suggestions or ties to different links of that community. Just so that they can be better represented. If you want a strong representation of the community for the sake of diversity, write and make new characters with fleshed out personalities. Let them come naturally, don't just introduce them for the sake of some plot or whatever. Have them be the kind of character who's like "Hi, I'm this guy, I'm a friend of the main protagonist and I do have an attraction to same sex genders like me." rather than "HIIIIII!! I'M SUPERFLUENT IN THE REALMS OF ALL LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE! THOU SHALT FLIRT WITH THE SAME SEX! OH! I AM SOOOOO ADDICTED TO FASHION AND EVERY ACTION I DO MUST BE TOTALLY EXAGGERATED!" It's not really that hard to do. Treat diversity like how it should when it's the form of a person - like a human being. They can be all sorts of things in stories for the roles that they're in, just as long as what it is about them, this one unique quality, is not the total representation of their character that they orbit around. |
| Nope I don't care about representation in animu |
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| so i just rewatched Shinsekai Yori, i know its common to hear "i dont care abour representation" but i remember the shitstorm that episode 8 caused due to a couple of gay scenes anyways i don mind, if i see a black main character i aint gonna go to twitter to complain fOrCeD rEpReSeNtAtIoN |
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| I think a representation is really important when its come to writing a novel. As a novel write i can say it really important but when its come to stuff like manga or anime it doesn't matter that much. So just enjoy the show. |
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JaniSIr said: I do in fact care deeply about representation. We need more elves in anime. Yes wee need more elves to be slaves 😉🤣 |
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TsutanaiFuun said: i just want to see normal japanese stuff in anime. I have absolutely no idea why you're watching anime for "normal japanese stuff". Maybe try documentaries instead. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| I couldn't care less. I just enjoy a good story; and characters tend to come second after that. |
 "...Is your mother worried? Would you like us to assign someone to worry your mother?" |
Mienus said: why would I? they aren't entertaining as much as anime. i want to watch those japanese tropes and stuff in animes, i like those tropes like not calling by first name unless you are close to the person etc. i don't want stuff like that replaced by the west. it will be disastrous if everyone in anime start calling everyone by their first names just after meeting first (i'm ok with the exceptions tho).TsutanaiFuun said: i just want to see normal japanese stuff in anime. I have absolutely no idea why you're watching anime for "normal japanese stuff". Maybe try documentaries instead. |
 The end of an era. Thank you Wit, Mappa and Isayama. Feeling half happy, half sad. Kawaii waifus and precious best girls <3333 |
| Yes, more monster girl representation. Hell an entire cast full of lesbian monster girls would be amazing. |
RoevhaalNov 7, 2022 9:41 PM
Roevhaal said: Yes, more monster girl representation. Hell an entire cast full of lesbian monster girls would be amazing. I completely agree with your statement!  |
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| Representation should always be a non-issue. Just because there could be a culturally diverse cast doesn't mean there should be done. If a creator wants to use persons of color in their story, good for them. But if they choose to stick to only one ethnicity, that's fine too. Not including a character of a specific ethnicity is NOT racist. In fact, it's the people who falsely claim that it's racist who are being racist. The same goes for representation regarding gender, religion, sexual orientation, and lifestyle choice. Stop trying to force your personal ideological beliefs onto others! |
| If you disagree with any thoughts or opinions expressed in the above post, you're wrong and I hate you forever! |
| Forced representation is creatively bankrupt concept that should be abolished. It would be like if a teacher wanted a essay about your dreams, but add some weird twist to it like having a unicorn. It would get old quick. |
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| good poll, voted yes I want to personally force all creators to include non-binary disabled mixed race lesbians in their stories just to piss you off in particular. For real though, representation can be important for people, and it's not as though Japanese media is devoid of diversity. And in fact I seem to see a lot more people claiming all instances of diversity are "forced" in anime and manga, despite plenty of creators obviously including those elements out of desire to make their story more interesting and their characters stand out more. Who exactly is supposed to be forcing this upon Japanese creators anyways? On another note, if someone is writing a story set in japan, probably most of the characters will be Japanese. though of course it's not impossible for people who aren't Japanese to exist in japan, and such elements can give a story more interest, or just more aesthetic variation. If something is a fantasy or sci-fi story, or meant to be taking place on a world-wide stage, it feels a bit unrealistic to not include "diversity". Everything is on a case by case basis, but it feels like it could be a missed opportunity. If we frame "diverse" as a bad thing that can only be "forced" do you really want homogeneous casts of characters? Well, I guess some people do. Anyways I tend to personally get way more annoyed with the instances of forced "please have babies" or "the jdf is really cool guys" in anime and manga. It makes me ill, but thats just me, and I can just stop watching something. |
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