Magia Record: Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Gaiden (TV) 2nd Season - Kakusei Zenya Episode 2 Discussion
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| I was expecting the animation to go back to normal after seeing the beautiful sakuga in Sayaka's battle from last week, but Shaft caught me by surprise again by having this second episode have the same sakuga treatment, too! =3 You can see how broken Yachiyo was after losing Iroha and she didn't hold back on her venomous anger towards the Magius group. Even the appearance of Mifuyu didn't persuade Yachiyo from continuing with her mission. It led to a doppel vs doppel fight between the two and, like with last week, the animation was simply amazing. I'm happy that Yachiyo snapped out of it and didn't kill off Mifuyu and after chasing the other girl and the chibi Kyubey, she found Iroha, but sadly in doppel form. Looks like Yachiyo will have to fight Iroha's doppel in order to save her. Maybe Shaft will spoil us fans with more sakuga animation next week? =3 |
| Yachiyo is so enraged on losing Iroha. She attack right away Miufyu, who only wanted to talk. looks like there's hope now. They found Iroha with the Uwasa. looking forward to next week!! :) |
CharlesDeGaulle said: _Alysha_ said: I hated season 1 of Side Story but Episode 1 of Season 2 took a complete 180 degree turn... too bad it returned this this lame cast in Episode 2. It seemed like night and day, as if SHAFT had reincarnated their tropes of head-tilting and high framed expression emotion for a fast-paced monologue(s) that don't drag on, facaded by an artistic take. The latter is exactly what this episode was lacking. I literally fell asleep watching this. How are they lame when they haven't had the time to shine yet? Magia record is a massive story and S1 is just a tiny fraction of the whole story meant to set everything up. Stop being such a hater just because the show hasn't gotten good yet. You're just hating because the show is tied to a big series (madoka magica) and because you set such a high expectation while not giving enough time for the show to fulfill those expectations The original fleshed out its characters in one season, Side Story isn't there yet(?) so what's taking so long? They're so lame and boring that the original characters are being shoehorned in. I don't want to appeal to authority but this response is so stupid, "hater", the ultimate blanket statement for "I have no idea what I'm talking about". Profound emotional logic. Yes, someone with 7 days watched is going to tell me I'm a 'hater', whatever that means. No, I've just seen this happen time and time again in anime: revived series' flopping and floundering to meet the needs of demand. Based on the source material of Side Story, this demand was manufactured. It's almost like a defence of this series merits an analysis of its extension, usually, that's how it works. |
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_Alysha_ said: CharlesDeGaulle said: How are they lame when they haven't had the time to shine yet? Magia record is a massive story and S1 is just a tiny fraction of the whole story meant to set everything up. Stop being such a hater just because the show hasn't gotten good yet. You're just hating because the show is tied to a big series (madoka magica) and because you set such a high expectation while not giving enough time for the show to fulfill those expectations The original fleshed out its characters in one season, Side Story isn't there yet(?) so what's taking so long? They're so lame and boring that the original characters are being shoehorned in. I don't want to appeal to authority but this response is so stupid, "hater", the ultimate blanket statement for "I have no idea what I'm talking about". Profound emotional logic. Yes, someone with 7 days watched is going to tell me I'm a 'hater', whatever that means. No, I've just seen this happen time and time again in anime: revived series' flopping and floundering to meet the needs of demand. Based on the source material of Side Story, this demand was manufactured. It's almost like a defence of this series merits an analysis of its extension, usually, that's how it works. First of all, I've watched anime for quite some time now and not new to the anime community, I know a salty hater when I see one. Second of all, the original did manage to tell an amazing story with just 12 episodes but it didn't deal with as much character, world building, and lore as magia record. Going by the story in the game, its still nowere near finished so its still early to say whether the show is bad or not. Finally, it's never a good idea to watch a show with too high of an expectation or some preestablished idea about how most side stories end up being. You're literally hating on a show just for the fact that it existed. |
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CharlesDeGaulle said: its still nowere near finished so its still early to say whether the show is bad or not. Wrong. Good anime prove to be good from the first episodes. And as much as you insist that Magia Record has a lot of content to present before things start to move, it won't convince anyone who has seen anime that presented their worlds, plots and characters in the course of the story, in a much more natural way. This is how any well-written story works. Think of any other fantastic fiction anime you know, how many of them needed to do what Magia Record does? Is it really that the lore of Magia Record is so much more complex than that of almost any other anime out there? If the anime needs a 10-episode first part where nothing happens just to introduce the world and the characters, and then be able to tell it's story, that signals bad storytelling. It would be like starting a fantasy manga with a block of text on the front page explaining the world, because the author is too dumb to pass on this information naturally as the adventure unfolds. I can't believe you don't understand the error in this. By the way, how long has this "setup phase" of Magia Record ended? The second episode of season two is the fifth since the last girl from the main quintet was introduced, and I'm still waiting for Magia Record to get good. How much longer do we have to wait to be allowed to evaluate the anime without it being "unfair"? |
| "If someone says it's wrong to hope, I'll tell them they're wrong every single time." |
Ryoketsu said: CharlesDeGaulle said: its still nowere near finished so its still early to say whether the show is bad or not. Wrong. Good anime prove to be good from the first episodes. And as much as you insist that Magia Record has a lot of content to present before things start to move, it won't convince anyone who has seen anime that presented their worlds, plots and characters in the course of the story, in a much more natural way. This is how any well-written story works. Think of any other fantastic fiction anime you know, how many of them needed to do what Magia Record does? Is it really that the lore of Magia Record is so much more complex than that of almost any other anime out there? If the anime needs a 10-episode first part where nothing happens just to introduce the world and the characters, and then be able to tell it's story, that signals bad storytelling. It would be like starting a fantasy manga with a block of text on the front page explaining the world, because the author is too dumb to pass on this information naturally as the adventure unfolds. I can't believe you don't understand the error in this. By the way, how long has this "setup phase" of Magia Record ended? The second episode of season two is the fifth since the last girl from the main quintet was introduced, and I'm still waiting for Magia Record to get good. How much longer do we have to wait to be allowed to evaluate the anime without it being "unfair"? Except not all good anime start strong. Like I said in previous comments, steins gate is a good example as many people think that the first 11 episodes is a slugfest where nothing happens. I personally enjoyed those 11 episodes but I can see how people can be bored with it. Same thing with log horizon, gintama, shinsekai yori, and many other great shows. The point is that good shows don't necessarily start off strong as you might suggest and you can't ignore the fact that many terrible shows start strong but declined afterwards. There also isn't a book of rules as to how to write a good anime or story in general so your attempt at differentiating good and bad shows by those arbitrary rules that you mentioned on how good shows should be written kinda falls flat on its head as what makes a show good can differ for every show. If you're wondering how long the setup phase is going to last, the I'd have to say that it'll all fit together by the end of this season or probably the end of the series |
CharlesDeGaulleAug 9, 2021 8:33 PM
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CharlesDeGaulle said: Like I said in previous comments, steins gate is a good example as many people think that the first 11 episodes is a slugfest where nothing happens. Except that Steins;Gate introduces a thought-provoking mystery in the very first episode and, while introducing the concept of the time machine and how it works, it also introduces the characters naturally, gives each of them a major role in the main plot, and takes them to, one by one, bring about four or five significant paradigm shifts in those first 11 episodes, which would guide the protagonist's actions throughout the second half of the story while promoting the development of all the characters. This is at a storytelling skill level so superior to Magia Record that you shouldn't dream of putting both animes on the same shelf. Want to do a comparison exercise? Since you've watched Steins;Gate, you know exactly what the four or five paradigm shifts I referred to are. Did something of similar importance to the plot happen in Magia Record in the first 12 episodes? What Magia Record did in the first episodes, in addition to asking us to follow the adventures of a totally uninteresting main character, in a roundabout quest where she collected four friends for her gacha and did everything but come a step closer to finding her sister? Halfway through the season, one might even forget that this is Iroha's goal and wonder what the hell she's doing there, such is the anime's lack of focus combined with the unnaturalness with which the events unfold. As for the other characters, what were their names again? The only one I cared about was Sana, in an anime that uses its first 10 episodes almost exclusively to introduce characters. Was this really necessary? Why are there so many characters in this story, except that it was written for a gacha game? The anime took 10 episodes to establish this group of five main magical girls - Iroha, Yachiyo, Tsuruno, Felicia and Sana - but the only ones that have any depth so far are Yachiyo and Sana. Iroha is just plain and boring, while Tsuruno and Felicia boil down to stereotypes. Also, which of them have had important roles in the story so far? The only thing Iroha did was gather the girls together, as if she were the player of this gacha and, except for Sana who had an intimate relationship with one of the rumors, the other girls just exist. Yachiyo's role is merely to be the embittered veteran and owner of the inn, while Tsuruno and Felicia are making numbers. And I haven't even mentioned the girls from Momoko's team, who could have all been cut from the anime and wouldn't be missed. Steins;Gate's story development has nothing to do with what we're seeing in Magia Record, here we have a bunch of useless characters who serve no purpose other than to show off their stereotypes, join the gacha and foment silly dramas. If I weren't the most ardent Madoka Magica fan who lives on the surface of this unfortunate planet, I would never have come back to see how things play out in this hard-to-watch spin-off. And I haven't even started to talk about how this anime mishandles its mysterious elements like doppels, rumors and the fact that witches are crowding Kamihama. Not to mention the poor way in which the villains are presented, where the anime misses several opportunities to create good conflicts between them and the protagonists. Not to mention how Magia Record feels like a different anime with each arc and urgently lacks a sense of unity. I could go on all day. CharlesDeGaulle said: There also isn't a book of rules as to how to write a good anime or story in general In fact, but I reiterate what I said. If the anime needs a 10-episode first part where nothing happens just to introduce the world and the characters, and then be able to tell it's story, usually this means the author did it because that's easier than stating the facts about the lore and the characters piecemeal as things unfold. |
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Ryoketsu said: CharlesDeGaulle said: Like I said in previous comments, steins gate is a good example as many people think that the first 11 episodes is a slugfest where nothing happens. Except that Steins;Gate introduces a thought-provoking mystery in the very first episode and, while introducing the concept of the time machine and how it works, it also introduces the characters naturally, gives each of them a major role in the main plot, and takes them to, one by one, bring about four or five significant paradigm shifts in those first 11 episodes, which would guide the protagonist's actions throughout the second half of the story while promoting the development of all the characters. This is at a storytelling skill level so superior to Magia Record that you shouldn't dream of putting both animes on the same shelf. Want to do a comparison exercise? Since you've watched Steins;Gate, you know exactly what the four or five paradigm shifts I referred to are. Did something of similar importance to the plot happen in Magia Record in the first 12 episodes? What Magia Record did in the first episodes, in addition to asking us to follow the adventures of a totally uninteresting main character, in a roundabout quest where she collected four friends for her gacha and did everything but come a step closer to finding her sister? Halfway through the season, one might even forget that this is Iroha's goal and wonder what the hell she's doing there, such is the anime's lack of focus combined with the unnaturalness with which the events unfold. As for the other characters, what were their names again? The only one I cared about was Sana, in an anime that uses its first 10 episodes almost exclusively to introduce characters. Was this really necessary? Why are there so many characters in this story, except that it was written for a gacha game? The anime took 10 episodes to establish this group of five main magical girls - Iroha, Yachiyo, Tsuruno, Felicia and Sana - but the only ones that have any depth so far are Yachiyo and Sana. Iroha is just plain and boring, while Tsuruno and Felicia boil down to stereotypes. Also, which of them have had important roles in the story so far? The only thing Iroha did was gather the girls together, as if she were the player of this gacha and, except for Sana who had an intimate relationship with one of the rumors, the other girls just exist. Yachiyo's role is merely to be the embittered veteran and owner of the inn, while Tsuruno and Felicia are making numbers. And I haven't even mentioned the girls from Momoko's team, who could have all been cut from the anime and wouldn't be missed. Steins;Gate's story development has nothing to do with what we're seeing in Magia Record, here we have a bunch of useless characters who serve no purpose other than to show off their stereotypes, join the gacha and foment silly dramas. If I weren't the most ardent Madoka Magica fan who lives on the surface of this unfortunate planet, I would never have come back to see how things play out in this hard-to-watch spin-off. And I haven't even started to talk about how this anime mishandles its mysterious elements like doppels, rumors and the fact that witches are crowding Kamihama. Not to mention the poor way in which the villains are presented, where the anime misses several opportunities to create good conflicts between them and the protagonists. Not to mention how Magia Record feels like a different anime with each arc and urgently lacks a sense of unity. I could go on all day. In fact, but I reiterate what I said. If the anime needs a 10-episode first part where nothing happens just to introduce the world and the characters, and then be able to tell it's story, usually this means the author did it because that's easier than stating the facts about the lore and the characters piecemeal as things unfold. I think your definition of boring is subjective here. Your lack of paying attention or not doing the right research simple shows your disinterest in story. Iroha's goal didn't change, the reason why she investigated rumours was in a hope to find her sister in one of those rumours. Along the way she helped some Magical Girls who were there in need. If you know the mechanics of Madoka Magica, the plot should spark your interest, like why all of this is like the way it is, why even Kyubey forgot about Iroha's wish and why no one remembers Iroha's sister. To me these questions are interesting. And characters are there because they do something later and part of the plot. By your logic we could remove Kyoko and Sayaka from main story line since even without them the story would make sense. And I would argue Madoka was a boring character in the main story since she does nothing for most part of the story. What you clearly miss is Iroha is changing the lives certain magical girls, and she has done it before. But you see it as Iroha picking up girls in gatcha, just cuz you know it's based on a game. And there is conflict between the Magius and our main characters, since they literally feed people (and Sana) to a Rumour. And those who can transform in Doppels (Iroha and Yachiyo), clearly know how dangerous and uncontrollable they are. There's clearly a conflict here, a bunch of Magical girls who threat people like disposables, and others who are against it. And now Yachiyo has personal vendetta against Magius. And they are not villains who have an evil agenda. They are just normal magical girls, trying to create a safe place for all other magical girls (but with sacrificing a bunch of people here n there). And why it needed 10 episodes to setup the plot? There's an easy explanation. It's not just establishing a new plot, but re-establishing the rules of Madoka Magica world. Whatever happens in Magia Record is similar but different. Each episode explains it bit by bit as the story progresses. The real plot of Magia Record isn't something as simple as time travel or a creature granting wishes. It doesn't take your knowledge of real world and expand upon it; it takes your knowledge of Madoka Magica and builds a story on top it. You can't tell where does this story fit on the timeline of Madoka Magica, since we have Homura wearing glasses. You would think it's prequel to original series but it's not. I mean there are many things to think about, for example, why it's named Magia Record. The story is more interesting if you have played the game already, so re-watch it once it 3rd Season finishes airing. Everything will make perfect sense then. And can you even call yourself an ardent Madoka Magica fan, if Magia Record anime is your first exposure to Magia Record? |
salarxAug 9, 2021 10:39 PM
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CharlesDeGaulle said: The point of my comparison isn't to say that magia record is as good or on the same level as steins gate. Both of those shows had a slow start and might seem boring for some people, I never claimed that steins gate is poorly written or find the first 11 episodes boring at all. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that steins gate is a better show than madoka magica in general so there is no disagreement on the points that you brought up about steins gate being better written and handled. The point is that it's too early to judge a show just because you might find its start to be boring and handled poorly. I brought up other shows like log horizon, shinsekai yori, and gintama that you can argue had a terrible start but got better as episodes go by. Heck, even gintama didn't truly get good for me personally before the benizakura arc which began 56 episodes into the show. Despite that, gintama is one of the highest rated shows on mal right now. I just want people to stop hating a show that hasn't had its moments yet. You can hate it after it finished or after it reached its peak but if the last two episodes of magia record taught us anything is that magia record has a long way to go before reaching its peak and its too early to say anything right now I think you qouted me by mistake, anyway I agree with your point. |
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I think you qouted me by mistake, anyway I agree with your point. Sorry I quoted you by accident |
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Ryoketsu said: CharlesDeGaulle said: Like I said in previous comments, steins gate is a good example as many people think that the first 11 episodes is a slugfest where nothing happens. Except that Steins;Gate introduces a thought-provoking mystery in the very first episode and, while introducing the concept of the time machine and how it works, it also introduces the characters naturally, gives each of them a major role in the main plot, and takes them to, one by one, bring about four or five significant paradigm shifts in those first 11 episodes, which would guide the protagonist's actions throughout the second half of the story while promoting the development of all the characters. This is at a storytelling skill level so superior to Magia Record that you shouldn't dream of putting both animes on the same shelf. Want to do a comparison exercise? Since you've watched Steins;Gate, you know exactly what the four or five paradigm shifts I referred to are. Did something of similar importance to the plot happen in Magia Record in the first 12 episodes? What Magia Record did in the first episodes, in addition to asking us to follow the adventures of a totally uninteresting main character, in a roundabout quest where she collected four friends for her gacha and did everything but come a step closer to finding her sister? Halfway through the season, one might even forget that this is Iroha's goal and wonder what the hell she's doing there, such is the anime's lack of focus combined with the unnaturalness with which the events unfold. As for the other characters, what were their names again? The only one I cared about was Sana, in an anime that uses its first 10 episodes almost exclusively to introduce characters. Was this really necessary? Why are there so many characters in this story, except that it was written for a gacha game? The anime took 10 episodes to establish this group of five main magical girls - Iroha, Yachiyo, Tsuruno, Felicia and Sana - but the only ones that have any depth so far are Yachiyo and Sana. Iroha is just plain and boring, while Tsuruno and Felicia boil down to stereotypes. Also, which of them have had important roles in the story so far? The only thing Iroha did was gather the girls together, as if she were the player of this gacha and, except for Sana who had an intimate relationship with one of the rumors, the other girls just exist. Yachiyo's role is merely to be the embittered veteran and owner of the inn, while Tsuruno and Felicia are making numbers. And I haven't even mentioned the girls from Momoko's team, who could have all been cut from the anime and wouldn't be missed. Steins;Gate's story development has nothing to do with what we're seeing in Magia Record, here we have a bunch of useless characters who serve no purpose other than to show off their stereotypes, join the gacha and foment silly dramas. If I weren't the most ardent Madoka Magica fan who lives on the surface of this unfortunate planet, I would never have come back to see how things play out in this hard-to-watch spin-off. And I haven't even started to talk about how this anime mishandles its mysterious elements like doppels, rumors and the fact that witches are crowding Kamihama. Not to mention the poor way in which the villains are presented, where the anime misses several opportunities to create good conflicts between them and the protagonists. Not to mention how Magia Record feels like a different anime with each arc and urgently lacks a sense of unity. I could go on all day. CharlesDeGaulle said: There also isn't a book of rules as to how to write a good anime or story in general In fact, but I reiterate what I said. If the anime needs a 10-episode first part where nothing happens just to introduce the world and the characters, and then be able to tell it's story, usually this means the author did it because that's easier than stating the facts about the lore and the characters piecemeal as things unfold. The point of my comparison isn't to say that magia record is as good or on the same level as steins gate. Both of those shows had a slow start and might seem boring for some people, I never claimed that steins gate is poorly written or find the first 11 episodes boring at all. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that steins gate is a better show than madoka magica in general so there is no disagreement on the points that you brought up about steins gate being better written and handled. The point is that it's too early to judge a show just because you might find its start to be boring and handled poorly. I brought up other shows like log horizon, shinsekai yori, and gintama that you can argue had a terrible start but got better as episodes go by. Heck, even gintama didn't truly get good for me personally before the benizakura arc which began 56 episodes into the show. Despite that, gintama is one of the highest rated shows on mal right now. I just want people to stop hating a show that hasn't had its moments yet. You can hate it after it finished or after it reached its peak but if the last two episodes of magia record taught us anything is that magia record has a long way to go before reaching its peak and its too early to say anything right now |
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| At this point, I think that some people just have a negative view of this anime and want to reaffirm their beliefs as such, regardless of the quality or lack off. Thus far, S2 has been superior to S1 so if they are complaining about the current season, I'm not sure how they even survived the first season. I had many issues with the first season too, but I decided to see this through. I'm enjoying S2 a lot more than S1. Why? Because of emotions. I went through the entire S1 without feeling much. I felt stressed, I felt pain. This was during episode 1 and 2. Now, I understand that it's based on a Gacha game and that usually, "Gacha characters" don't die. As such, I don't really expect anyone to really die. With that in mind, S2 successfully made me care and stress over their current situation. |
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False_Mirror said: So find the flaw in the first episode of magia record Well, aside from the fact that Boxwood's labyrinth looks like anything but a labyrinth, the first episode introduces us to the fact that Kamihama witches are stronger than "normal" witches and this establishes a power play that didn't exist in Madoka Magica and which I don't find beneficial to the story. In the original series, a magical girl could be defeated by a witch for N reasons, and except in the case of Walpurgisnacht, battles used to be more complex than "my power level is higher than yours". Mami was a very powerful magical girl and was not defeated because Charlotte was more powerful than her. She was defeated because she underestimated the witch and was surprised by her power to escape the ribbons. Do you know what I mean? I think that boiling down battles to a question of power level vs. power level, even though it may have an explanation in the context of Magia Record, is an unnecessary oversimplification. False_Mirror said: It's literally the same thing and it's the bad writing that distinguishes both series. Magia Record may have tried to do something similar, but pay attention to the things I've pointed out about the two animes: in the first 11 episodes of Steins;Gate, all characters are well presented, play important roles for the main plot, and cause paradigm shifts that will impact the rest of the story. In the first 10 episodes of Magia Record, the five main characters are not satisfactorily presented (only Sana and Yachiyo have some depth), they don't each have an important role in the story (Tsuruno and Felicia don't do anything) and there are no significant changes to paradigm beyond the fact that they're all going to live together. False_Mirror said: Adapting visual novels is really difficult and almost no one does it well. The storytelling format is quite different from more traditional manga and books and you can adapt it well only by making very significant changes, cutting out entire huge sections and thereby causing the anger of fans of the original - and that's what they're trying to do in the second season, it seems that. May the gods hear you. Making more significant cuts and changes to the story could have saved the first season from being the disappointment it was, but instead they tried to stay true to the game so as not to upset the fans, and this resulted in an anime that displeased a significant portion of the fans anyway. In fact, those responsible for the Magia Record anime have to do a very difficult job, I know this is not an easy story to adapt as it is a totally different format, I'm just pointing out the reasons why, for me, the anime is not good. salarx said: I think your definition of boring is subjective here. It can be, but anyway it seems strange to me that anyone can think that Iroha is not a boring character. salarx said: Your lack of paying attention or not doing the right research simple shows your disinterest in story. I criticized people who weren't paying attention to the story during the first season commentary. I watched each episode at least twice. I know very well what happened and what didn't, what existed and what didn't exist, what was developed and what didn't. salarx said: Iroha's goal didn't change, the reason why she investigated rumours was in a hope to find her sister in one of those rumours. Along the way she helped some Magical Girls who were there in need. I understand these points, the problem is the time the story spends getting Iroha involved with every rumor and every new girl in these arcs that add little or nothing to her search for her missing sister. Has there been any progress on that quest in the 15 episodes we've had so far? Has Iroha discovered anything about the rumors that could be the key to unraveling the mystery of Ui's disappearance? Or were instead spent 10 episodes with arcs that were nothing more than "let's investigate the rumor of the week" with new characters popping up just to not disappoint game fans who wanted to see all 359 girls on screen? The story has no focus. It's very irritating trying to follow Iroha's quest for her missing sister and having to see her get involved in a series of side quests that go nowhere for an entire season, only to form a quintet of main characters that it didn't even have to be five. salarx said: If you know the mechanics of Madoka Magica, the plot should spark your interest, like why all of this is like the way it is, why even Kyubey forgot about Iroha's wish and why no one remembers Iroha's sister. To me these questions are interesting. These are interesting questions for me too, as well as why the hell rumors and doppels exist and how they work. The problem is, again, the lack of focus of the story, as we're past the fifteenth episode and there's still no progress on any of these questions. There were, instead, episodes in which most of these questions seemed to be totally forgotten. The rumors are there, the doppels are there, and no one seems interested to know why. salarx said: And characters are there because they do something later and part of the plot. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Is this bunch of characters there because they all have an important role to play in this story, or did the story have to give each one a role because they had to be so many in the first place? salarx said: By your logic we could remove Kyoko and Sayaka from main story line since even without them the story would make sense. And I would argue Madoka was a boring character in the main story since she does nothing for most part of the story. The importance of Kyouko and Sayaka to the original story is essential to the construction of Madoka's journey that culminated in the wish she made in episode 12, not to mention how each of their journeys contributed to the revelations that are slowly made throughout the episodes and how each one of them relates thematically to the rest of the story and are fundamental pieces for the construction of a coherent and harmonious whole. What did Momoko's team arc exist for, again? To introduce the stairway rumor, which is of no importance to the main plot, and to foster that silly drama of Kaede with Rena, which is also of no use to the story. salarx said: What you clearly miss is Iroha is changing the lives certain magical girls, and she has done it before. Well, but this isn't a story about a magical girl who aims to go around helping other magical girls. Again, lack of focus. salarx said: But you see it as Iroha picking up girls in gatcha, just cuz you know it's based on a game. Yes, because so far the anime has failed to demonstrate why this large number of characters is needed. Why are there a large number of characters in the anime? Is it because they're all necessary or because the anime's story is based on a gacha of magical girls? salarx said: And there is conflict between the Magius and our main characters, since they literally feed people (and Sana) to a Rumour. [...] There's clearly a conflict here, a bunch of Magical girls who threat people like disposables, and others who are against it. And such an important point of conflict was only implied in the dialogue of episode 10 and not mentioned again at any other time. Do you understand what I mean when I talk about how the conflict between the Magius and the protagonists is misused? Knowing that there are magical girls feeding innocent people to witches in order to use them for their own benefit should be as capable of revolting the Mikazuki-sou girls as knowing the truth about Kyubey's system, but instead it had almost no impact. This had such a small impact that the Mikazuki-sou girls, even after discovering what the Magius do to innocent people, still agreed to attend their "lecture" and hear their explanations. salarx said: And those who can transform in Doppels (Iroha and Yachiyo), clearly know how dangerous and uncontrollable they are. Something that is just said and repeated but never shown. Except for the occasion when Iroha's doppel nearly attacked Yachiyo and Tsuruno in episode 5, whenever someone uses this transformation, it's merely shown as a power-up that conveniently pops up when the script needs it and disappears when the script needs it. The twins' doppels in episode 6, Iroha's doppel in episode 7, Iroha and Yachiyo's doppels in episode 13, and the battle between Yachiyo and Mifuyu in season 2 episode 2. salarx said: And they are not villains who have an evil agenda. They are just normal magical girls, trying to create a safe place for all other magical girls (but with sacrificing a bunch of people here n there). I wish Magius actually had this dubious nature, but the anime missed that opportunity when it associated them with fascism in its visual references. (the facade of the museum of memories building is the same as the facade of Mussolini's HQ) salarx said: And why it needed 10 episodes to setup the plot? There's an easy explanation. It's not just establishing a new plot, but re-establishing the rules of Madoka Magica world. This shouldn't be easier than establishing a new world from scratch, as the anime relies on our prior knowledge of the world of Madoka Magica and doesn't need to explain what are magical girls, contracts, witches, etc? salarx said: Whatever happens in Magia Record is similar but different. Each episode explains it bit by bit as the story progresses. I wish this were true, but the truth is that we're past the fifteenth episode and we still don't know what the rumors are, what the doppels are, nor what the Magius plan really is and how they do what they do. The anime isn't explaining anything yet, it just showed the rumors, showed the doppels, showed all these new things and asked us to accept them without really having reason to. salarx said: I mean there are many things to think about, for example, why it's named Magia Record. The story is more interesting if you have played the game already, so re-watch it once it 3rd Season finishes airing. Everything will make perfect sense then. If a story needs me to know the ending for the beginning to make sense, I have bad news about the quality of its writing. salarx said: And can you even call yourself an ardent Madoka Magica fan, if Magia Record anime is your first exposure to Magia Record? I just don't play any gacha game. |
RyoketsuAug 10, 2021 1:32 PM
| "If someone says it's wrong to hope, I'll tell them they're wrong every single time." |
Ryoketsu said: I understand these points, the problem is the time the story spends getting Iroha involved with every rumor and every new girl in these arcs that add little or nothing to her search for her missing sister. Has there been any progress on that quest in the 15 episodes we've had so far? Has Iroha discovered anything about the rumors that could be the key to unraveling the mystery of Ui's disappearance? Or were instead spent 10 episodes with arcs that were nothing more than "let's investigate the rumor of the week" with new characters popping up just to not disappoint game fans who wanted to see all 359 girls on screen? But it adds to her search for her sister. When she came to Kamihama, she knew nothing about Rumours, Uwasa, or Doppels. But now she's there, she's closer to finding her sister. She met Touka, Nemu, who were her friends (but again they don't seem to remember her). The meeting was only possible because, they defeated a ton of rumours, got on the Radar of Alina, and eventually Touka inviting them to convince them. I guess that counts as some progress since Ui, Touka, and Nemu disappeared together. Ryoketsu said: The story has no focus. It's very irritating trying to follow Iroha's quest for her missing sister and having to see her get involved in a series of side quests that go nowhere for an entire season, only to form a quintet of main characters that it didn't even have to be five. salarx said: If you know the mechanics of Madoka Magica, the plot should spark your interest, like why all of this is like the way it is, why even Kyubey forgot about Iroha's wish and why no one remembers Iroha's sister. To me these questions are interesting. These are interesting questions for me too, as well as why the hell rumors and doppels exist and how they work. The problem is, again, the lack of focus of the story, as we're past the fifteenth episode and there's still no progress on any of these questions. There were, instead, episodes in which most of these questions seemed to be totally forgotten. The rumors are there, the doppels are there, and no one seems interested to know why. No better place to find a fellow magical girl other than witch's labyrinth haha. And it makes sense, we didn't need this in Madoka Magica since Mami, Sayaka, Madoka, Homura knew each other from the first episode itself (and where did they meet Mami?, In a labyrinth). I know fights and transformations are fan service, but they are perfect way to show the strengths / powers of a character. And yes it didn't need to be 5, could be 8, or 3. But it's five since the teaser of game came out so have to live with it. And someone seems to be interested in them. Especially Yachiyo, who keeps a diary of all rumours. Felicia is a hired goon with a small brain so exclude her. Sana couldn't care much while being in labyrinth. And again there has been progress on that side. We know the Nemu creates rumours, Doppels are Touka's creation. And Doppels and Rumours looks so close to Witches that everybody assumes they are witches, exception being Yachiyo (who could call her Doppel), Tsuruno (who was slightly confused but we don't know her state of mind). Kaede, who was terrified and depressed that she became a witch. Felicia being Felicia doesn't care, and Sana already know certain stuff so there's that. We know 'who' part, also the 'why' part (Magical Girls can be saved), we just don't know the how part (which is a spoiler). Ryoketsu said: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Is this bunch of characters there because they all have an important role to play in this story, or did the story have to give each one a role because they had to be so many in the first place? salarx said: By your logic we could remove Kyoko and Sayaka from main story line since even without them the story would make sense. And I would argue Madoka was a boring character in the main story since she does nothing for most part of the story. The importance of Kyouko and Sayaka to the original story is essential to the construction of Madoka's journey that culminated in the wish she made in episode 12, not to mention how each of their journeys contributed to the revelations that are slowly made throughout the episodes and how each one of them relates thematically to the rest of the story and are fundamental pieces for the construction of a coherent and harmonious whole. What did Momoko's team arc exist for, again? To introduce the stairway rumor, which is of no importance to the main plot, and to foster that silly drama of Kaede with Rena, which is also of no use to the story. Clearly not every character has a role in main story. There are almost 100 characters in Magia Record and I don't remember having seen all of them. There are main characters, side main characters. You have seen like 15-16 of them. And no not all characters have important role. And not every scene you see is important to main plot. Certain time goes into the character development too, and it can't be said if the character is important or not until she story reaches completion. Kaede and Sana are both weak, but have completely different view points. Kaede happily accepted Magius, while Sana is is not so inclined. All different groups are trying to solve different problems in their own way, and that will continue till the end of story. All I can say it's one group's work hence there is more than one group. Would you prefer a character popping out of nowhere in the end, where you know nothing about them, and don't care if they die or get injured? That doesn't work. The characters are there cuz they do something. And yes that was my point. we didn't know if that would lead to Madoka making a wish until the last Episode. That also involves them dying to be honest. All that chit-chat would be useless if none of them died. Madoka wouldn't have made a wish in that case. It's hard to say why a certain character is there until the story concludes. If you had asked the question about Kuroe, that would make more sense since she just comes, and goes. Nobody could explain why her role was, not until now, where she seems to be major character. Same goes for Team Momoko. Though it is a magical girl show, problems don't disappear magically. As you know walpurgisnacht is not possible to defeat alone. Even the strongest magical girls in Madoka Universe (not including Gods like Madoka or Homura) cannot defeat it combined. And there's already mention of Warpurgisnacht in the last episode of season 1, so that's the clue for you. So many magical girls is part of the plot, and it's not bad to give some development to them. Ryoketsu said: Well, but this isn't a story about a magical girl who aims to go around helping other magical girls. Again, lack of focus. salarx said: But you see it as Iroha picking up girls in gatcha, just cuz you know it's based on a game. Yes, because so far the anime has failed to demonstrate why this large number of characters is needed. Why are there a large number of characters in the anime? Is it because they're all necessary or because the anime's story is based on a gacha of magical girls? salarx said: And there is conflict between the Magius and our main characters, since they literally feed people (and Sana) to a Rumour. [...] There's clearly a conflict here, a bunch of Magical girls who threat people like disposables, and others who are against it. And such an important point of conflict was only implied in the dialogue of episode 10 and not mentioned again at any other time. Do you understand what I mean when I talk about how the conflict between the Magius and the protagonists is misused? Knowing that there are magical girls feeding innocent people to witches in order to use them for their own benefit should be as capable of revolting the Mikazuki-sou girls as knowing the truth about Kyubey's system, but instead it had almost no impact. This had such a small impact that the Mikazuki-sou girls, even after discovering what the Magius do to innocent people, still agreed to attend their "lecture" and hear their explanations. That's character development what you call lack of focus. Tells more about Iroha that she not only wishes to find her sister, but also contribute as much without being a burden, and helping everyone out who might not survive in the wild. And we could argue why the story needs a large number of characters when the story reaches completion. And what other choice they had instead of talking, the fight happened just before that, one of the most powerful magical girl on their side (Mami), a girl which can create labyrinths (Alina), and they have control over their doppels. What could you possibly gain when the strongest magical girl you have is Yachiyo. The lecture was to gain some insight. The best Iroha could do was attack her own teammates when in Doppel form. And they were not as conflicted, only Yachiyo was strongly against them. Iroha wanted to meet Touka for obvious reasons, since she believed she's good (cuz she was good). Tsuruno because of Mifuyu. Other two are kids, forget about them. Alina was a nutcase anyway, nobody wanted to meet her. Ryoketsu said: Something that is just said and repeated but never shown. Except for the occasion when Iroha's doppel nearly attacked Yachiyo and Tsuruno in episode 5, whenever someone uses this transformation, it's merely shown as a power-up that conveniently pops up when the script needs it and disappears when the script needs it. The twins' doppels in episode 6, Iroha's doppel in episode 7, Iroha and Yachiyo's doppels in episode 13, and the battle between Yachiyo and Mifuyu in season 2 episode 2. I wish Magius actually had this dubious nature, but the anime missed that opportunity when it associated them with fascism in its visual references. (the facade of the museum of memories building is the same as the facade of Mussolini's HQ) This shouldn't be easier than establishing a new world from scratch, as the anime relies on our prior knowledge of the world of Madoka Magica and doesn't need to explain what are magical girls, contracts, witches, etc? I wish this were true, but the truth is that we're past the fifteenth episode and we still don't know what the rumors are, what the doppels are, nor what the Magius plan really is and how they do what they do. The anime isn't explaining anything yet, it just showed the rumors, showed the doppels, showed all these new things and asked us to accept them without really having reason to. If a story needs me to know the ending for the beginning to make sense, I have bad news about the quality of its writing. And it's clearly shown. The first time Iroha transforms into Doppel, or when Kaeda loses control when transforming into Doppel. Yahchiyo probably knows if since long before (which was made clear in the last episode during fight with Mami). The doppel appears when the soul gem is at capacity. The first time Iroha used it was when she used grief seed for Yachiyo. Kaede when everyone was defeated, so it's obvious that she used it when her soul gem was muddy. Same for Yachiyo, since fighting with Mifuyu and talking about Iroha was emotionally stressful. Magius do it on purpose. And yes Magius are fascist, but no all of them. And not all those who follow them are facist. As Mifuyu says, she does it so that so other weak magical girls have chance of survival. The only nutcase here is Alina, probably her idea for creating the piece of art Memory Museum. Touka's ethics are questionable too. This is to confirm it's the same principle, Magical Girls contract Kyubey, witches exists. But on top of that, there are more things that shouldn't exist, like Rumours, Doppels, small Kyubey. This puts emphasis on it's the same but different. But you have to show there are some things that are different, like hey there's a witch who doesn't drop a grief seed, that should probably mean it wasn't a Magical Girl that became a witch, but something from a Rumour. Also hey there's a witch, but it just reverts backs to Magical Girl, it's called Doppel Witch. Also there's a Kyubey, who's doesn't grant wishes and is smaller, wonder who he is. I mean they could just say okay this is Rumour and it differs from a Witch like this, and Doppels are witches but can turn into Magical Girls, but that defeats the concept of 'show, not tell'. Then in the end Touka tells it anyway, but only to confirm our assumptions. And that's how it works, there are 3 seasons, if you're told everything in first season, the rest of the seasons turn into girls fighting. It's a good thing you know something, but not all of it. And things don't make sense from the beginning. It's a good story if you have to look back to certain references that you didn't understand when watching the first time. Attack on titan did it, introducing a plot point earlier and then expanding it later. This only confirms that a show a great rewatch value nothing else. And if you're not able to predict anything now, you know it's not a generic story atleast. I mean you can't say if a character is useless or useful, necessary or unnecessary, when the story is only done half. There's clearly a mystery around, and the characters are interesting. People like yachiyo since she's strong, and fits with the plot I guess. The weak characters are sidelined because they are boring, and haven't done anything cool. Iroha is like that, Madoka was like that, who only cried and people hated Madoka as a character. So I'd say wait for the character to shine. |
salarxAug 11, 2021 1:32 AM
|
| another banger ep |
| That fight sequence was animated beautifully, I was very surprised by how great that looked! I'm glad that it seems to finally be delving into the plot now too with how poor the pacing was before, although I wonder how much was written during S1's development and if it was planned to be like this since day one like a split cour. |
 |
KagamiHiiragi said: I have listened to TrySail - Lapis at least 100 times already, I wonder if they'll change the (lack of) animation in the Ending itself, at some point. Also can't wait for Tsuruno's and Alina's proper appeareance!!! Seeing them in the OP made me miss them. One thing is certain, MagiReco fills you with HOPE (AND HYPE?!). yes, much hype. wow show. 10/10 gems. |
|
| This has been way better than season 1 so far, I am actually very surprised that they are deciding to go with an anime original story. |
 |
| The op was so fucking good. My little Magical lesbians were all over each other. Holding hands and flirting like crazy,,,,,,YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES Love the strong Yuri vibes. Not only approve on the visual! The music has a catchy tune. So far this is my favorite anime op in 2021. The animation overall was exceptional good IMO My angel Yachiyo was upset and want her little girlfriends back! Especially her wife Iroha. I love to see her strong dedication. Keep on fighting sweetheart! I will cheer for you! I am sure you will get your wife back and then you can go home together and do some lesbian kissing,,,,,,YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES And I am so glad she didn't kill Miufyu. In my book, magical lesbians shall not kill each other. Instead! They shall suck on each other tongues,,,YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES  |
Yuri-CrusaderAug 16, 2021 8:53 AM
 |
Ryoketsu said: By the way, how long has this "setup phase" of Magia Record ended? It's ended after the end of season 1. Right now we have the main objective: To stop Magius nefarious plan and to save Iroha. |
| Oof yeah I forgot almost everything from season 1 xD at least it's visually pleasant |
 |
| Pissed asf Yachiyo is so hot. Another enjoyable episode. So Nemu (Ui's nerdy "friend" from the hospital if I'm not mistaken) is the one who has created all the Rumors, huh? P.S.: Of course Iroha wasn't dead. |
| Hm.. So there is way to create some vessels where you'd put grief energy?.. Doppels?.. Hm.. But doppels have some "side effects", hm.. |
| The doppel fight between Mifuyu and Yachiyo is such eye candy, not to mention it highlights how strong Yachiyo actually is |
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