MiniSiets said: Subtitles, demonized? I think you're conflating a personal preference for dubs to be an open hatred for subs, which is an unfair examination of the issue. I don't care if other people want to watch subs; it's just not my cup of tea. You may or may not care, but what I'm referring to is the behavior of the community, which is quite fascinating. Go to any gaming forum, and whenever somebody ask if a US release of a JRPG game is going to have a Japanese audio with sub in addition to dub or not, there will be hordes of people calling that person weeaboo. It is observable here too. It's an interesting phenomena to say the least. |
| Nah it doesn't really bother me |
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| Ah the overdone subs VS dubs shitstormdebate. It comes down to personal preference and particular situations. But IMO those who rule out subs or dubs from the get go are just limiting their own enjoyment of everything anime has to offer. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
IntroverTurtle said: Exaccus said: This isn't about subs vs dubs. It's just about that certain argument of not being able to read subs.Ah the overdone subs VS dubs shitstormdebate. It comes down to personal preference and particular situations. But IMO those who rule out subs or dubs from the get go are just limiting their own enjoyment of everything anime has to offer. Wrong. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
| I dont just think its legitimate...it happens to me. I rather look at the art than the subs. It really does bother me that i have to read and pay less attention to the beautiful art. I love both dub and sub but i rather go with dub because i can enjoy the visuals a lot better. |
| FOLLOW MY SOCIAL MEDIA IF YOU LIKE COSPLAY ADN ANIME RELATED VIDEOS! https://www.youtube.com/user/LadyMeilin https://www.facebook.com/Ladymeilin  |
pokecenter said: With Pokemon, I really don't think it matters, it's just a bad anime in general.deadjames said: pokecenter said: I think your confusing the script with the actual acting, the script was terrible on Pokemon, but the fact that the actors could deliver it so well is a testament to their talent.deadjames said: pokecenter said: Yeah despite the show itself not being that great the English voice-acting was pretty damn good especially Team Rocket.deadjames said: mattbenz99 said: That is not a valid excuse, Lupin III came out in the 70s and Nausicaa and Dragon Ball came out in the 80s and they have good dubs, not to mention there are tons of other shows from the 90s that have good dubs like Pokemon, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Outlaw Star, Tenchi Muyo, Cardcaptor Sakura, Yu Yu Hakusho, Detective Conan, NGE, and Princess Mononoke.deadjames said: MajinSaga said: You obviously haven't seen Bakemonogatari or Akagi, and then there's some shows where the dubs are so awful that they're just plain unwatchable like Ranma 1/2, Slayers, Sailor Moon, Elfen Lied, the Rurouni Kenshin OVAs, and RahXephon.deadjames said: It depends, usually it's just people being lazy, like I have a friend that misses out on a lot of cool shows because they don't have dubs because he's too damn lazy to read, the only time the excuse is valid would be like if they have dyslexia or some thing to that effect. Most good shows do get dubbed or will get dubbed. Only good thing that hasn't been dubbed is LOGH. Almost everything else is usually just a bunch repetitive moe shit. No one is missing out on anything. to be fair slayers came out in the 90s when there were almost no dubs so it isnt fair to make that comparison and elfen lied is actually infamous for having a terrible japanese dub along with a terrible english dub. the rest i cant comment on Pokemon got good dubs? :S As far as i know Pokemon dubs weren't that good, in fact in some ocasions they wouldn't even translate the speech in an proper way. I get your point, but when you talk about dubs there's plenty of factors that you should consider, not only the way the actors behaved while giving voice to their characters. I don't know which dub version you saying that was good but i'm guessing it was the 4kids one, still between changing personalities, plot, music and skipping episodes and/or violence content doesn't sound like a good job to me. That's why i prefer subs, to stick as close as possible to the original version. |
mattbenz99 said: Of course it is. If only one of them was good why should I waste my money on the other 99, if I'm essentially just giving them money to make more bad anime. Let's use my list as an example, I either own or am planning on buying everything that I rated 8 or higher because I want to support those series' in the hopes that the studios will produce more of the same level of quality, but anything that I rated lower I don't feel deserves my money because they've produced what I view to be a sub-par product.deadjames said: mattbenz99 said: Are you just pulling numbers that you read somewhere, or can you actually explain those statistics? The fact is piracy really doesn't hurt the industries nearly as much as most people would have you believe, in fact in many cases it helps it, many people will go out and buy a series they pirated if they like it.IntroverTurtle said: mattbenz99 said: How do you know if she doesn't support the industry? You're guessing based on your unsupported data that 98% of people pirate.IntroverTurtle said: mattbenz99 said: You can watch only subs while still supporting the industry, actually you can support it more. So your point doesn't work that much.Chibi-Alice said: If you can't read subs, you shouldn't be watching anime. if you dont support the industry you shouldnt be watching anime that was not really what i meant. i was pointing out how this person very likely doesnt support the industry and he/she feels the need to say that you should never watch anime the way you like to. heck if you watch all dubs but buy every show you watch you have more of a right to watch anime than if you watch every anime subbed illegally. And your right thing doesn't make any sense. i have now do have proof of my numbers. that original 98% piracy really meant that only 2% of people watch anime primarily on dvds but now i have actual numbers from polls on piracy. 75-85% pirating rate. also i will say this again anime is a hobby and like other hobbies you shouldnt steal the equipment to do your hobby. that is what i meant by right. buying 1 series for every 100 you pirated is not good enough. |
| How about never buying any series? That's right, I'm one edgy motherfucker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51t1OsPSdBc |
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| Honestly, I don't really even remember what it was like for me when I first started watching subbed anime. I don't think I had an aversion to reading the text, but then again I have had a preference for watching pretty much anything in it's original language (though, strangely enough it took me a while to almost exclusively watch anime in Japanese). Anyway, my point is that I personally don't have a frame of reference for whether the claims are legitimate or not. I would think, though, that barring a disability or something to that effect that one could adapt and learn to read the subs fast enough. Actually, thinking about it, Tatami Galaxy was a show that caught me off guard in the initial episodes. I think that if you can read Watashi's dialogue in time then you are good to go. Also about the scenery thing. I find that argument to be a bit of a crutch. As a fan of the Aria series, which has never gotten an English dub, I can say with absolute confidence that the subs have never really distracted me from the scenery. Would it have bothered me if I'd never read subs before? Maybe. But, again, people adapt. In most cases it's a matter of if they want to. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Come on guys. The mere dynamics of reading subtitles are against the process of fully enjoying a show. No matter if it's one, two or five seconds what keeps your eyes down in the screen. You have to be constantly switching from the visuals to the text and from the text to the visuals. I have quite a long experience watching subs, and even in that case I often wonder if I'm able to extract everything the show has to offer for me. I can see this argument being misused, but the idea that it affects the viewing experience, slightly or not, is still there. What bugs me about this thread though is how people have assumed that viewing this as a problem -and I view it as an inherent problem of the format- is tied to either being dyslexic, lazy as fuck or having the reading skills of a blind monkey. |
| I'm pretty fucking sure most people here play their games with subtitles, English or not. |
jal90 said: Come on guys. The mere dynamics of reading subtitles are against the process of fully enjoying a show. No matter if it's one, two or five seconds what keeps your eyes down in the screen. You have to be constantly switching from the visuals to the text and from the text to the visuals. I have quite a long experience watching subs, and even in that case I often wonder if I'm able to extract everything the show has to offer for me. I can see this argument being misused, but the idea that it affects the viewing experience, slightly or not, is still there. What bugs me about this thread though is how people have assumed that viewing this as a problem -and I view it as an inherent problem of the format- is tied to either being dyslexic, lazy as fuck or having the reading skills of a blind monkey. English dubs are adapted to a larger area and thus for a different mentality , its trying to send same message but its just the equivalent and its not the same . I think you know what I mean . They get kind of same message but not exactly the same. Let's just say , for example , that japs have a fetish for childhood friends while the rest of the world dont so .... you know . |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| About this piracy talk: Do you know what a region lock is? Do you know where they put it? ON ANIME, interesting isn't it? So... What region has the most anime? Region 1/A. How many fans are there in the EU? A LOT. What region does the EU have? 2/B So tell me, why can't I pirate? When the industry aren't interested in making money in the EU and when it even deny us to watch it legally? Legit streaming sites then?... Fuck us over totally, for the same price we don't even get half of the animes the NA has. So now, go and bitch somewhere else plz~ -------------------------------------------------------------- As for the sub vs dub talk: I think the English VA can often feel hollow and colorless compare to the Japanese ones, but that's just my opinion. At first I only watch dubs, but now I only watch sub as I find the Japanese voices to be better. I read the subs subconsciously so it don't affect my experience, but maybe not all ppl are able to do that? |
RabbiacAug 29, 2013 12:17 AM
 |
| Dubs suck deal with it people. |
| If you don't have dyslexia I don't see where the problem is. |
| So Far,so Good...So What! |
-Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. |
Dubs>subs. Breaking Bad>Anime Comic books>manga 99% of Anime is Garbage |
MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. I will admit there are very few dubs out there that are good, but none are better than the original. Dubs in general are just plain bad and you and everyone else know it deep down. And the translations fuck don't get me started on the translations. |
-Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. I will admit there are very few dubs out there that are good, but none are better than the original. Dubs in general are just plain bad and you and everyone else know it deep down. And the translations fuck don't get me started on the translations. Cowboy Bebop says your claim fucking sucks. I'd rather watch Dubs then crappy helium voices and constipated grunts any day. |
Dubs>subs. Breaking Bad>Anime Comic books>manga 99% of Anime is Garbage |
MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. I will admit there are very few dubs out there that are good, but none are better than the original. Dubs in general are just plain bad and you and everyone else know it deep down. And the translations fuck don't get me started on the translations. Cowboy Bebop says your claim fucking sucks. I'd rather watch Dubs then crappy helium voices and constipated grunts any day. Go ahead bro. Have fun with your shitty mistranslations and censorship. I'll just continue to beat my stick to my beautiful subtitles while you miss out on all orgasmic the fun. dubs suck deal with it son |
-Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. I will admit there are very few dubs out there that are good, but none are better than the original. Dubs in general are just plain bad and you and everyone else know it deep down. And the translations fuck don't get me started on the translations. Cowboy Bebop says your claim fucking sucks. I'd rather watch Dubs then crappy helium voices and constipated grunts any day. Go ahead bro. Have fun with your shitty mistranslations and censorship. I'll just continue to beat my stick to my beautiful subtitles while you miss out on all orgasmic the fun. dubs suck deal with it son Someone is still living in the early 90's. The Japs are good at animating and writing stories. Voice acting is not their thing. In 20 years, the majority of the world will be speaking and reading in English. Whereas nobody will care about Japanese. Not even the Japanese. That day will be glorious. |
MajinSagaAug 29, 2013 12:53 AM
Dubs>subs. Breaking Bad>Anime Comic books>manga 99% of Anime is Garbage |
| Yeah, well. Some people I know are just lazy so they don't like to read while watching. They only basically watch something that doesn't require them to use their brain. |
Vishnu_Karthik said: Seriously now you people can't see the whole anime because the lines of text is too distracting ?? I would accept this excuse if subtitles was exclusive only to anime but it isn't subtitles are universal and pretty much a standard for ANY VISUAL MEDIUM. Well, indeed. This "excuse" applies to live action movies too. |
Vishnu_Karthik said: Seriously now you people can't see the whole anime because the lines of text is too distracting ?? I would accept this excuse if subtitles was exclusive only to anime but it isn't subtitles are universal and pretty much a standard for ANY VISUAL MEDIUM. Video games,movies,visual novels you name it ! visual novels The hell? Visual novels are, by definition, read, not watched. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
-Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. I will admit there are very few dubs out there that are good, but none are better than the original. Dubs in general are just plain bad and you and everyone else know it deep down. And the translations fuck don't get me started on the translations. Don't be so arrogant. You think you know dubs (All of them, really??) are 'just plain bad.' Not everyone else. Dubs can very well be better than the original, it depends, of course, on the quality of the voice acting in each dub. English can very well be overall better. |
| Looks like I've walked into a classic case of weeb's getting butthurt over nothing. Why should one need an excuse to have a preference of Subtitles or the rather low budget voice overs. |
 |
YorozuyaGinSan said: Looks like I've walked into a classic case of weeb's getting butthurt over nothing. Why should one need an excuse to have a preference of Subtitles or the rather low budget voice overs. Because everyone should be watching anime the same way obviously. Even though they most likely watch it by themselves in a dark room with waifu pillow in hand |
 |
| That should only apply when you're too high on dat kush |
| There's a few at the local anime club that have legitimate reasons. one person who's dyslexic so they can't concentrate on reading subs properly as they watch. And I know around 4 of them can't as they end up focusing more on the subs then what's happening behind the text. Anime is an art, we don't judge them just because they see the art differently to us. We all bask in the glory that is anime. It's a similar argument for those who fold tp and those who scrunch. Fecal matter is Fecal matter. Does it matter how the paper is used? So long as the area is clean after you're done, who gives a hoot? |
| These things happen and there's nothing you can do about it. They aren't necessarily planned and they aren't always bad, and they aren't always good, but they are. - Emi, Katawa Shoujo |
Forgetfulness said: How about the following: "Dubs in general are just plain bad" >Gives one example of a good dub You sir, are fucking retarded Those are just a few I got after skimming my list. Perfectly good dubs that I find to easily match and some even exceed their Japanese counterpart (and I intentionally refrained from listing the overused examples of good dubs like Bebop and Black Lagoon). I'm sure you (or anyone else for that matter) is itching to single out one of the shows I listed and respond with something like "You think the Clannad dub is good?! You have shit taste!" and dismiss my argument as such, but the very fact that I find them all to be excellent shows that there is no universal good or bad dub (since, if there were, you wouldn't have differing opinions as we see here). Please stop confusing "popular dub" with "good dub." Though I'm sure this post will be lost amongst the many pages to come of back-and-forth rhetoric about how one's opinion is far superior to everyone else's. Oh the joys of being an anime fan~ ---------------------------------------------------- Also, to the people saying that not being able to read subs isn't a legitimate excuse: sure, to you and me, it's no problem seeing as how we're [hopefully] perfectly mentally competent beings and whatnot. But what of those fans who are dyslexic and can't read very fast? What of those of us whose vision is so bad they can't see subs clearly unless they're sitting 10 microns from their television screen? What of those of us who want to chow down on a bowl of fucking wonton soup while watching an anime? Sure, for us non-casuals, the excuse sound trivial. But that doesn't mean it can't possibly be true in some contexts. |
AndyRayyAug 29, 2013 6:01 AM
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| This discussion is getting a little out of hand. I think people are entitled to their own opinion, there isn't really a reason to say which is better, the discussion was originally whether being unable to read while watching is acceptable as an excuse -> which in my opinion, is totally unacceptable, if they prefer dubs, that's fine, but using something like that as an excuse is just a lousy way to disregard watching subs. |
 |
AndyRayy said: Forgetfulness said: How about the following: "Dubs in general are just plain bad" >Gives one example of a good dub You sir, are fucking retarded Those are just a few I got after skimming my list. Perfectly good dubs that I find to easily match and some even exceed their Japanese counterpart (and I intentionally refrained from listing the overused examples of good dubs like Bebop and Black Lagoon). I'm sure you (or anyone else for that matter) is itching to single out one of the shows I listed and respond with something like "You think the Clannad dub is good?! You have shit taste!" and dismiss my argument as such, but the very fact that I find them all to be excellent shows that there is no universal good or bad dub (since, if there were, you wouldn't have differing opinions as we see here). Please stop confusing "popular dub" with "good dub." Though I'm sure this post will be lost amongst the many pages to come of back-and-forth rhetoric about how one's opinion is far superior to everyone else's. Oh the joys of being an anime fan~ The only ones I disagree with that I've seen is clannad [that was a given] and soul eater. Highschool of the dead, lucky star and Samurai Champloo have really good dubs, I think I preferred HOTD dubbed as well as Champloo and I haven't seen what the English dub is like for Summer wars but the voice acting in Japanese wasn't all that great . |
|
Oh man, don't kill my argument like that. There isn't much i can say about that lol.. |
 |
| Wait, people think the dub of Princess Mononoke was good? It's only my opinion, but I though it was crap! Not entirely, but, generally, crap. |
mitch3315 said: Only if they're very slow readers. ^ |
| probably not lol. when i first started anime i was comfortable with the subs and could read them just fine without stopping the episode or something like that. though i just started one of my friends with anime and she says she can't read them fast enough. slow reader? I prefer subs to dubs anyways, since the voices in dub sometimes sound funny. (but not all) |
-Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. I will admit there are very few dubs out there that are good, but none are better than the original. Dubs in general are just plain bad and you and everyone else know it deep down. And the translations fuck don't get me started on the translations. Cowboy Bebop says your claim fucking sucks. I'd rather watch Dubs then crappy helium voices and constipated grunts any day. Go ahead bro. Have fun with your shitty mistranslations and censorship. I'll just continue to beat my stick to my beautiful subtitles while you miss out on all orgasmic the fun. dubs suck deal with it son you make no sense when you talk about translation. you are still reading english so any problem in translation between japanese and english will still show up whether you are reading or hearing the dialogue especially since it is the same company that both dubs the show and writes the subtitles and if you are going to argue fansubs then you are stupid because why would you trust a bunch of amateurs over the professionals who do this for a living. |
| Just because you know how to use a torrent does not give you the god given right to pirate. My actual list: https://kitsu.io/users/mattbenz99/library check out my youtube channel for my review: https://www.youtube.com/user/mattbenz99 |
| Well i have a 47 inch tv and i cant focus properly on the whole image due to having to look at the bottom of the screen at the subs. |
| Yep , the dub killed the cool lines the original had......not all of them thou'. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
FluffyFlesh said: That was pretty funny if you ask me.Yep , the dub killed the cool lines the original had......not all of them thou'. But what do I know? I'm just a dirty dub-watching peasant. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
gamer2710 said: FluffyFlesh said: That was pretty funny if you ask me.Yep , the dub killed the cool lines the original had......not all of them thou'. But what do I know? I'm just a dirty dub-watching peasant. Do you know how hard I laughed when I heard Okabe Okarin Double OO saying "It's so cool!Sonovabitch!" line? Do you know how displeased when I heard the dub version? I laughed so hard that I woke my whole family thinking I've gone nuts . I laughed for 5 mins without stopping and I still laugh reimagining the scene. When I heard the dub version I was about to throw the mouse at the monitor but my brain stopped me. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
Forgetfulness said: mattbenz99 said: -Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: MajinSaga said: -Atomsk- said: Japanese sucks deal with it people. Gotta go with this. Japanese will never be as wonderful as English. I will admit there are very few dubs out there that are good, but none are better than the original. Dubs in general are just plain bad and you and everyone else know it deep down. And the translations fuck don't get me started on the translations. Cowboy Bebop says your claim fucking sucks. I'd rather watch Dubs then crappy helium voices and constipated grunts any day. Go ahead bro. Have fun with your shitty mistranslations and censorship. I'll just continue to beat my stick to my beautiful subtitles while you miss out on all orgasmic the fun. dubs suck deal with it son you make no sense when you talk about translation. you are still reading english so any problem in translation between japanese and english will still show up whether you are reading or hearing the dialogue especially since it is the same company that both dubs the show and writes the subtitles and if you are going to argue fansubs then you are stupid because why would you trust a bunch of amateurs over the professionals who do this for a living. Steins;Gate RAW: "Hey mister, I am mad scientist. It's so cool! Sonovabitch" Steins;Gate Sub: "Hey mister, I am mad scientist. It's so cool! Sonovabitch" Steins;Gate Dub: "Yo, I'ma bust out some questions yo so holla at ya boy. Word to your mother" (more or less. I can't remember exactly) Yeah...no that is an exception. you cant judge all dubs by an exception but even then the dub still got the basic idea of what the creators wanted they wanted you to see that okabe didnt think that this guy spoke their language. |
| Just because you know how to use a torrent does not give you the god given right to pirate. My actual list: https://kitsu.io/users/mattbenz99/library check out my youtube channel for my review: https://www.youtube.com/user/mattbenz99 |
| That Steins;Gate example is fairly selective considering that the dub really needed to change it because they're all speaking English fluently already so it wouldn't make sense for Okabe to suddenly start speaking broken Engrish. That's not an example of a "bad translation", that was an intentional change that really needed to be done or else it would have sounded stupid. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
| That's fine if your only point is to say the dub is less accurate than sub in general, though if your point is to say that the subs are superior because of that, I'd say that's still debatable. I don't find a problem with most of the liberties dubs take being that they are often necessary as part of the localization process and usually don't alter the plot in any way significantly, unless you're talking about a 4Kids dub in which case I'm right there with sub watchers in despising it. I don't watch 4Kids dubs either. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
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