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When the fight begin. Netero said :" This is a testing ground for military heavy weaponry"
When Knov come back.
It was foreshadowed with Knov " I have received word from a messenger of the president. He has taken the king to appoint location"
"It doesn't matter what the guards do now .. They will be too late"
tsudecimo said: The corner thing is a Deus ex Machina, and I'm not calling it that. I'm merely calling it an asspull, whether it's a good or a bad thing is not my argument. There were no hints for the bomb, there were hints for
Netero's death
Actually there is a small very subtle hint, but it happened very close to the fight, I don't think I can count it.
Had he given us more hints than the outcome would have been too predictable, you can call it asspull or whatever you want but that still doesn't change the fact that is was a brilliant move.
''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi
Umm okay. Like I said, I'm not arguing whether or not it was a good or a bad move.
Guilek said: When the fight begin. Netero said :" This is a testing ground for military heavy weaponry"
When Knov come back.
It was foreshadowed with Knov " I have received word from a messenger of the president. He has taken the king to appoint location"
"It doesn't matter what the guards do now .. They will be too late"
Actually this the subtle hint I was talking about.
In the episode 88 Netero said "I don't think I can't accomplish this mission without sacrificing someone" (However this is just an hint that Netero was ready so sacrifice himself in some way)
And the fact that Zeno left was an hint too
tsudecimo said: Umm okay. Like I said, I'm not arguing whether or not it was a good or a bad move.
Guilek said: When the fight begin. Netero said :" This is a testing ground for military heavy weaponry"
When Knov come back.
It was foreshadowed with Knov " I have received word from a messenger of the president. He has taken the king to appoint location"
"It doesn't matter what the guards do now .. They will be too late"
Actually this the subtle hint I was talking about.
episode 83 (2:10-3:00) netero talking to the goverment officials (V5)
that same scene is seen as a flashback in ep122 right after netero says " he is wavering between his ant and human side, and he doesn't realize that the two are incompatible but no matter which side he falls into the OUTCOME WON'T CHANGE"
This was the best episode of anime I have ever seen. Madhouse went so far and beyond my expectations that I'm finding it hard to find suitable words to describe it. Even "godlike" seems insufficient.
Both animation and art were perfect with emphasis on right moments, especially the needle and Netero's final moments were beatifully done.
Even though I bet some people will still complain, not understanding the true meaning behind what happened.
What is the true meaning behind that asspull?
I knew you would have a problem with this, so I took the liberty of finding a post that someone in the manga forms posted to explain the Rose, it's a mouthful but bear with it
one_eyed_dragon said:
Now on topic - actually this fight played out extremely well.
It´s a similiar story to Whitebeard in One Piece. Whitebeard was called the strongest pirate alive and he proved to be worth the title. But he said it himself - that title refered to his younger self.
If he were in his prime, he would´ve wiped the floor with the marine HQ.
Now to Netero, he as well stated that he received that title a long time ago. Age has gotten the best of him and seeing as Meruem got cornered by him really showed us that if Netero were in his prime age, he would´ve probably beaten him.
Now on to the main point of my post - this fight was a battle of humans vs. a new species/animals.
Compared to humans, animals are superior in a lot of areas. They can swim better, run faster, fly, have much better senses, are stronger, etc.
The only thing we have going for us and that saved our existence in the first place is our intelligence.
It´s the ability to create things to make up for our own shortcomings.
If you pit a human against a lion, bear, shark, whatever without any technology or weapon whatsoever, he´d lose.
By using guns, knives and poison we are able to keep them at bay or kill them.
We are not born with the weapons to defend ourselves against predators like that, we have to get dirty and nasty to survive.
Now, in HxH, humans have the ability called Nen. Nen is the art of controlling ones life force and giving it a form. So in fact, next to it´s weapons, humans have a natural power that let´s them compete with beasts and animals.
Now, there is a new species that not only combines the natural abilities of animals and beasts, which are already far superior to our measly bodily abilities, with our human intelligence which enabled us to survive that long against the odds of nature as well as the ability to use the life force in the form of Nen.
Now with all that in mind, pit the supposedly strongest human/hunter at his life span's end against the fresh born strongest collection of animals, beasts and humans of a superior race that absorbs the life force of anything he eats and you can compare it to a fight of an old hunter with a knive vs. a young grizzly bear.
Sure the old hunter has his experience and training to fight against opponents like that, but vitality is at his enemies side. His experience can´t overcome the burden of age, thus letting him lose in terms of agility, strength and stamina.
So how can the old hunter bring down the grizzly bear? How can Netero defeat Meruem?
By relying on something that I already mentioned before - humanities iron will to survive, using any means possible.
Atomic weapons, Biological weapons, Chemical weapons, pick your favourite.
If it was an old hunter against a grizzly bear using a grenade as his last means, it´d be "well, he only had a knive, he fought against a bear, if that was the only way to kill it, why not?"
It´s the same for Netero. Just that the survival of the human race depended on it and his enemy was the ultimate life form.
And to put it into Netero´s own words:
"King of the ants, Meruem. You don´t understand a thing about the limitless malice of mankind!"
If some race gets too large, we burn it.
If something annoys us, we poison it.
If something threatens us, we exterminate it.
So this fight shouldn´t piss you off, but should actually impress you, as it really is above other fights, especially in the shounen genre.
It´s not willpower, friendship, life force or magical artifacts that saves humanity. It´s technology, it´s the unbelievable malice and viciousness to use any means possible to stand atop the food chain and defend it´s title of evolution`s finest.
It´s technology, with the sole goal of killing everything it touches, originally designed to kill it´s creators, namely humans.
This fight showed us that in a world of Nen and other supernatural abilitites and beings, no matter how strong a human is, he can´t overpower human´s enemies: Time and nature.
And to overcome them, we rely on every means necessary. Be it poison, chemicals or something else.
Even the ultimate life form can´t compete with the wicked creations of mass destruction that humanity created. Nature lost to the inventiveness of human´s desire to kill.
OT: Pretty damn good episode, animation was beautiful, same with the soundtrack and now I look forward to the rest of the reactions. Also RIP Chairman Netero
PS if you do plan to reply tsud, know that I won't, no offense, but considering what you're like to argue with, it won't get us anywhere and I don't like my time being wasted, so I'll leave it at that
KitsuneKomugiApr 22, 2014 12:45 PM
"Now, let us drink. Let us drink. Drink to the human race. In every age, there will be good humans and bad humans. Human life is too long to devote to reproduction, yet too short to devote to learning, in the helix of time. Perhaps that is why humans succumb to desire and seek release. Despite the fact that life is complete with the sun, the land and poetry." Supreme Leader Diego(Real) (Hunter x Hunter 2011)
tsudecimo said: Umm okay. Like I said, I'm not arguing whether or not it was a good or a bad move.
Guilek said: When the fight begin. Netero said :" This is a testing ground for military heavy weaponry"
When Knov come back.
It was foreshadowed with Knov " I have received word from a messenger of the president. He has taken the king to appoint location"
"It doesn't matter what the guards do now .. They will be too late"
Actually this the subtle hint I was talking about.
episode 83 (2:10-3:00) netero talking to the goverment officials (V5)
that same scene is seen as a flashback in ep122 right after netero says " he is wavering between his ant and human side, and he doesn't realize that the two are incompatible but no matter which side he falls into the OUTCOME WON'T CHANGE"
That's not a hint. That's a generic line that expresses Netero's confidence in winning.
The problem I have here, was that it was a very giagntic event that changes that leads to the conclusion of the whole arc, but wasn't met with sufficient foreshadowing from a good point in the arc, that shows that Togashi thought of it from the beginning. The weaponry hint was right before the fight, and Knov talk was during it and before it happened (actually I don't remember exactly when Knov said that)
Putting aside the asspull talk, my opinion is that it was terrible move on Togashi part. To
end the whole thing with a bomb. It was extremely anti climactic. It's something I would expect from some generic action flick. The worst part is that the bomb also got rid of Pouf and Youpi. It made the hunters feel useless and insignificant.
That is just simply lame imo.
KitsuneKomugi said:
one_eyed_dragon said:
Now on topic - actually this fight played out extremely well.
It´s a similiar story to Whitebeard in One Piece. Whitebeard was called the strongest pirate alive and he proved to be worth the title. But he said it himself - that title refered to his younger self.
If he were in his prime, he would´ve wiped the floor with the marine HQ.
Now to Netero, he as well stated that he received that title a long time ago. Age has gotten the best of him and seeing as Meruem got cornered by him really showed us that if Netero were in his prime age, he would´ve probably beaten him.
Now on to the main point of my post - this fight was a battle of humans vs. a new species/animals.
Compared to humans, animals are superior in a lot of areas. They can swim better, run faster, fly, have much better senses, are stronger, etc.
The only thing we have going for us and that saved our existence in the first place is our intelligence.
It´s the ability to create things to make up for our own shortcomings.
If you pit a human against a lion, bear, shark, whatever without any technology or weapon whatsoever, he´d lose.
By using guns, knives and poison we are able to keep them at bay or kill them.
We are not born with the weapons to defend ourselves against predators like that, we have to get dirty and nasty to survive.
Now, in HxH, humans have the ability called Nen. Nen is the art of controlling ones life force and giving it a form. So in fact, next to it´s weapons, humans have a natural power that let´s them compete with beasts and animals.
Now, there is a new species that not only combines the natural abilities of animals and beasts, which are already far superior to our measly bodily abilities, with our human intelligence which enabled us to survive that long against the odds of nature as well as the ability to use the life force in the form of Nen.
Now with all that in mind, pit the supposedly strongest human/hunter at his life span's end against the fresh born strongest collection of animals, beasts and humans of a superior race that absorbs the life force of anything he eats and you can compare it to a fight of an old hunter with a knive vs. a young grizzly bear.
Sure the old hunter has his experience and training to fight against opponents like that, but vitality is at his enemies side. His experience can´t overcome the burden of age, thus letting him lose in terms of agility, strength and stamina.
So how can the old hunter bring down the grizzly bear? How can Netero defeat Meruem?
By relying on something that I already mentioned before - humanities iron will to survive, using any means possible.
Atomic weapons, Biological weapons, Chemical weapons, pick your favourite.
If it was an old hunter against a grizzly bear using a grenade as his last means, it´d be "well, he only had a knive, he fought against a bear, if that was the only way to kill it, why not?"
It´s the same for Netero. Just that the survival of the human race depended on it and his enemy was the ultimate life form.
And to put it into Netero´s own words:
"King of the ants, Meruem. You don´t understand a thing about the limitless malice of mankind!"
If some race gets too large, we burn it.
If something annoys us, we poison it.
If something threatens us, we exterminate it.
So this fight shouldn´t piss you off, but should actually impress you, as it really is above other fights, especially in the shounen genre.
It´s not willpower, friendship, life force or magical artifacts that saves humanity. It´s technology, it´s the unbelievable malice and viciousness to use any means possible to stand atop the food chain and defend it´s title of evolution`s finest.
It´s technology, with the sole goal of killing everything it touches, originally designed to kill it´s creators, namely humans.
This fight showed us that in a world of Nen and other supernatural abilitites and beings, no matter how strong a human is, he can´t overpower human´s enemies: Time and nature.
And to overcome them, we rely on every means necessary. Be it poison, chemicals or something else.
Even the ultimate life form can´t compete with the wicked creations of mass destruction that humanity created. Nature lost to the inventiveness of human´s desire to kill.
I'm not gonna read that (ugly wording and unorganized) and I'm assuming the post is about the theme behind it, which I already know about it, so I don't know what's the purpose of posting this.
ValeBreck said: In the episode 88 Netero said "I don't think I can't accomplish this mission without sacrificing someone" (However this is just an hint that Netero was ready so sacrifice himself in some way)
And the fact that Zeno left was an hint too
...
You already know why the first one is irrelevant. Zeno left because his job was done, as literally stated by himself, it has zero relation to the bomb..wtf..
Amazing episode. Netero's such a boss. R.I.P dude. You were an incredible character, and you got the fight of your life in the end.
"Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's infinite potential for evolution." I really loved that line. Netero had a lot of awesome lines, come to think of it.
Once again, Togashi does not like long-drawn-out battles, and I think we're better off for that.
ValeBreck said: In the episode 88 Netero said "I don't think I can't accomplish this mission without sacrificing someone" (However this is just an hint that Netero was ready so sacrifice himself in some way)
And the fact that Zeno left was an hint too
...
You already know why the first one is irrelevant. Zeno left because his job was done, as literally stated by himself, it has zero relation to the bomb..wtf..
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
I wouldn't call it an asspull. Netero obviously had the bomb planned. He saw Pitou and said he wasn't even sure he could beat Pitou. He most likely knew he wouldn't be able to beat the King so he lead them into a hole below ground and eventually ended up detonating the bomb after getting destroyed. Makes sense to me. Plus, he didn't technically win the fight if the King died. They both died (again assuming the King died)
Either way, awesome episode! Loved it!
Preview looks like Gon's about to start fighting since Komugi got back up and maybe Killua vs Pouf?
That was one of the best and epic fights I have ever watched!!!! And that was not only because of the abilities but also because of the depth of their inner thoughts, the metaphors and psychological implications...
This anime is the only that makes me say HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIT so many times....
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
It's not my fault that you can't gasp the actual hints.
Assumed? what? do you mean another word here?
Netero hired Zeno only to separate the King, he didn't pay him to fight with him because of the high money fee he would pay, that was Netero's reason as stated by him, if I remember correctly. That's not specifically relevant to the bomb, since it could have been written as Netero being confident in winning by himself.
Relax guy. Don't blame you inability to express your thoughts clearly and your lack of deductive reasoning on me.
Amazing! Just amazing! Really brilliantly done. Based MH :D
The fight was so amazing I was tearing up from epicness throughout T^T
The animation of how Meruem was being sling shotted left-right-up-down and just coming back more and more and more was so EPIC!
Netero's prayer being fast enough to stop time and Meruem's use of all his experience playing against Komugi to figure out where the nxt attack will be coming from.
The way Meruem analyzed Netero's training method in a few seconds was O_O This guy is just tooo BA!
Until he cut Netero's leg off! The way Netero just closed his wound and continued fighting was epic!
And then the left hand sent flying! But still praying with one hand! DAT ZERO WAS EPICNESS OVERLOAD!
And damn Netero looked like a mess after it O_O.
What takes the cake was his face when he was activating the bomb O~O THAT WAS CREEPY AS F***!! WTH NETERO! I won't be able to sleep now XD No wonder Meruem felt fear XD
DAT BOMB was animated so GOOD!! FRIGGIN DAMN EPIC!!! RIP Netero! U were one of the most BA old men ever!!! And Meruem, sorry dude, u were friggin awesome and I loved u but checkmate.
And nxt ep seems awesome too. Pouf's face O_O And GON vs F***n PITOU??? FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >.< HYPE HYPE HYPE!
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
I think it's just best to ignore people like him as there's no point in trying to reason with a fool, it's pointless and is a waste of time. Just ignore him and let him whine in peace, from the reactions I've seen everyone loved this episode, who cares if he one person didn't like it, don't let him ruin your enjoyment
"Now, let us drink. Let us drink. Drink to the human race. In every age, there will be good humans and bad humans. Human life is too long to devote to reproduction, yet too short to devote to learning, in the helix of time. Perhaps that is why humans succumb to desire and seek release. Despite the fact that life is complete with the sun, the land and poetry." Supreme Leader Diego(Real) (Hunter x Hunter 2011)
Just finished the episode and OMG that was just awesome! Dat animation, the ost, voice actors of Netero and Meruem were phenomenal.. loved every second of it!! This might become my favorite action episodes, can't wait to see it in HD.
R.I.P Chairman Netero and thank you for your service!!!
''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
It's not my fault that you can't gasp the actual hints.
Assumed? what? do you mean another word here?
Netero hired Zeno only to separate the King, he didn't pay him to fight with him because of the high money fee he would pay, that was Netero's reason as stated by him, if I remember correctly. That's not specifically relevant to the bomb, since it could have been written as Netero being confident in winning by himself.
Relax guy. Don't blame you inability to express your thoughts clearly and your lack of deductive reasoning on me.
tsudecimo said:
ValeBreck said:
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
It's not my fault that you can't gasp the actual hints.
Assumed? what? do you mean another word here?
Netero hired Zeno only to separate the King, he didn't pay him to fight with him because of the high money fee he would pay, that was Netero's reason as stated by him, if I remember correctly. That's not specifically relevant to the bomb, since it could have been written as Netero being confident in winning by himself.
Relax guy. Don't blame you inability to express your thoughts clearly and your lack of deductive reasoning on me.
tsudecimo said:
ValeBreck said:
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
It's not my fault that you can't gasp the actual hints.
Assumed? what? do you mean another word here?
Netero hired Zeno only to separate the King, he didn't pay him to fight with him because of the high money fee he would pay, that was Netero's reason as stated by him, if I remember correctly. That's not specifically relevant to the bomb, since it could have been written as Netero being confident in winning by himself.
Relax guy. Don't blame you inability to express your thoughts clearly and your lack of deductive reasoning on me.
Call it an aspull or whatever you want but the way Togashi sets up his ideas for an arc is different from others. He plans the start and ending of the arc first and asks himself questions like "How can I resolve the arc/ fights in a way that hasn't been done before?"
He attempts to create an unique ending or resolution that few or none has done before and avoids shonen clichés.
And after that the middle part of the arc is what he has to come up with as he goes.
I've been waiting to see this part animated for so long and it was amazing. Some of the stuff coming up could have been handled better but the CA arc is one of my favorite story arcs.
A_Fat_Man said: I've been waiting to see this part animated for so long and it was amazing. Some of the stuff coming up could have been handled better but the CA arc is one of my favorite story arcs.
Not sure what you think could've been handled better, I was surprised how well they handled the gore of the episode when you compare it to the Killua vs Jones scene
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
It's not my fault that you can't gasp the actual hints.
Assumed? what? do you mean another word here?
Netero hired Zeno only to separate the King, he didn't pay him to fight with him because of the high money fee he would pay, that was Netero's reason as stated by him, if I remember correctly. That's not specifically relevant to the bomb, since it could have been written as Netero being confident in winning by himself.
Relax guy. Don't blame you inability to express your thoughts clearly and your lack of deductive reasoning on me.
Not my fault if I'm not english.
And Netero never said that. Also, it wouldn't make any sense since he even thought Neferpitou was stronger than him. That, plus all the other hints made it clear that something like that was going to happen.
If anyone lacks deductive reasoning, it is you.
KitsuneKomugi said:
ValeBreck said:
It's really impossible to discuss with you, you are such an annoying being
Why the hell do you think Netero assumed Zeno ONLY to separate the king from the royal guards? If Netero didn't already plan to explode, he would have assumed him to fight with the King too, but evidently you are too stupid to understand such a simple thing.
I think it's just best to ignore people like him as there's no point in trying to reason with a fool, it's pointless and is a waste of time. Just ignore him and let him whine in peace, from the reactions I've seen everyone loved this episode, who cares if he one person didn't like it, don't let him ruin your enjoyment
I always try to make people understand, but yeah, I should probably leave him be, since he's just here to provoke people and I can barely sustain a normal conversation in english.
Call it an aspull or whatever you want but the way Togashi sets up his ideas for an arc is different from others. He plans the start and ending of the arc first and asks himself questions like "How can I resolve the arc/ fights in a way that hasn't been done before"
He attempts to create an unique ending or resolution that few or none has done before and the middle part of the arc is what he has to come up with as he goes.
Sure Togashi puts and setup different ideas and what not, but that is not inherently a good thing or a guarantee for quality. Perfect example imo is the Chimera ant arc, where the different aspects were handled poorly. I'm not sure I would call a suicidal bomb ''original'' or ''never done before''. Don't get me wrong I think Togashi is one of the best mangaka out there in terms of imaginary, execution, ideas and writing, and HxH is my second favorite battle anime of all time but
Togashi dropped the ball on this arc. This is no where close to Yorknew's quality imo, with the inconsistencies, the asspulls and possible deus ex machina, the focus on trivial characters, the pesudo psychological parts, the handling of Gon's character, the ending, the narration, the pacing and the length. To each his own.
Anyone calling it an asspull! What would u prefer this or someone like Gon beating Meruem? C'mon people, this is the best ending for Meruem possible...
.
.
.
Well I know he's not dead yet but it eventually leads to his death
The king is so full of himself. I completely agreed with Netero when he made that insect speech. Does he really think he can defeat ALL the humans? There's fucking Hisoka the Phantom Troupe, plus the top 5 Hunters in the world including Gon's father. And if none of them can beat him we still have the Atomic and Nuclear bomb developers.
Anyways the next episode looks interesting. It seems time's up for the neko.
Aichiro said: The king is so full of himself. I completely agreed with Netero when he made that insect speech. Does he really think he can defeat ALL the humans? There's fucking Hisoka the Phantom Troupe, plus the top 5 Hunters in the world including Gon's father. And if none of them can beat him we still have the Atomic and Nuclear bomb developers.
Anyways the next episode looks interesting. It seems time's up for the neko.
He can. The King is the absolute strongest being ever created in the Hunter x Hunter universe. No human being, Top Hunter or not, is on par with him. He could kill Hisoka and The Phantom Troupe in the blink of an eye.
I think it's the first time a major character died and I absolutely have nothing to say and not feeling sad or whatsoever (well, I got spoiled that Netero will die, but not how). Netero was so determined and a strong character, he himself was accepting his fate.
Now, it has 9 episodes left supposedly, I wonder how the story will continue!
Even though I bet some people will still complain, not understanding the true meaning behind what happened.
What is the true meaning behind that asspull?
Coming from the guy who has Naruto as his avatar and gave Naruto Shippuden a 10. If this episode was an asspull, I wonder what the hell the Naruto manga is at this moment?
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