The Flowers of Evil
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| Noob question : are they in middleschool or highschool? I believed it to be highschool until Kasuga's parents in this episode said he was in middleschool.. I'm just wondering if they really said that or if it was a flaw in the subs... I checked the character profiles on MAL and noticed there's no info written for them.. :I I now want to believe it's middleschool because that would explain so much about their personalities and actions |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
| Ghostony asked: Noob question : are they in middleschool or highschool? They are in Grade 8. They are in the 2nd year of Middle School in Japan. So they are 13 or 14 years old. There are multiple confirmations of this. It is a very important question. Thank you for asking. Kasuga's parents in this episode said he was in middleschool.. I'm just wondering if they really said that or if it was a flaw in the subs... Good to ask. I listened very carefully and Kasuga's dad said "chuugakusei" which means "middle school student". I checked the character profiles on MAL and noticed there's no info written for them.. :I The fact that they are middle school students has never been clearly confirmed in the anime until halfway through Episode 3. Up until then, people familiar with the school system in Japan said that, for a variety of reasons, it was obvious that they were in Middle School. In the manga, they were in the second year of Middle School. So... I guess it couldn't hurt to update the MAL character profiles. Bittersweetlove said: Nakamura is insane! My opinion is that, if she were to be evaluated by a psychiatrist, she would not be diagnosed with any disorder in the "DSM5" book. The psychiatrist would just tell the parents, "Your daughter is in Grade 8." |
okanaganApr 21, 2013 4:45 PM
okanagan said: She would not be diagnosed with any disorder in the "DSM5" book. The psychiatrist would just tell the parents, "Your daughter is in Grade 8." Doesn't mean she isn't insane, though. |
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| God, that ED still creeps me the fuck out |
| Don't forget. Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember her, you are not alone. |
| KingYoshi wrote: Doesn't mean [Nakamura] isn't insane, though. Okay, fair enough. We don't know for sure. Let's see how things develop in Episode 4 and onwards. As for Kasuga, I would not say he has any diagnosable mental illness either. However, he clearly has what Japanese call "Eighth-Grader's Syndrome" ( 中二病 / chūnibyō ). There have been a number of excellent recent anime series in which major characters suffered from 中二病. However, all of those other animes were comedy. This is the first time I have seen 中二病 being portrayed seriously rather than just for laughs. The term 中二病 was first used on January 11th, 1999 on a radio show hosted by Hikaru Ijūin (伊集院 光). Usage of the word became common after that. This article in Japanese seems to be the most comprehensive one I found: http://ja.uncyclomedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%AD%E4%BA%8C%E7%97%85 |
okanaganApr 21, 2013 9:49 PM
| lol, this anime is great. keeps me wanting more at the end of every episode. |
| In his Post #163, Takuan_Soho wrote: Kasuga is a masochist who is using literature as an excuse for admitting what sort of person he really is. ... I will absolutely not disagree with this comment in any way, due in part to my sad ignorance of Psychology. However, I did a Google search for any webpages with contained both the terms "chuunibyou" ( 中二病 ) and "Aku no Hana" ( 惡の華 ). There are numerous results. Looking at them, it is clear that many people in Japan who are writing about Aku no Hana are using the term "chuunibyou". The most apparently authoritative source that I found was the Amazon list of product reviews for the manga: http://www.amazon.co.jp/product-reviews/4063842770/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R1ALG0YZEBVR1U Here is the clearest statement: 中二病全開の主人公とヒロインが変態行動をおこすだけの漫画 which I will amateurishly translate as: "A manga about a male main character with full-blown Eighth-Grader's Syndrome who does perverted things with the female main character." It should be understood that "chuunibyou" is not yet a formally recognized psychiatric illness. Thus, it does not have a specific definition. So for us to talk about whether Kasuga "really" has "chuunibyou" requires an examination of the way that people in Japan use and understand this informal term. From looking around, I am fairly sure that "chuunibyou" never includes having actual belief in special powers. Note also that "chuunibyou" does not overlap with delusions as part of a psychiatric illness. Any 8th grader clinically presenting delusions would be mentally ill. There is a formal medical definition of somebody having delusions. There is a lot of detailed information on the web about "chuunibyou" and it seems likely that there are a lot of parents in Japan who are quite concerned about the behavior of their children. Note that Kasuga is in Grade 8. Everyone in Japan has at least heard of "chuunibyou" by now. So it stands to reason that people are going to immediately think of "chuunibyou" when they watch the show, as opposed to drawing concepts from Western Psychology. From other anime I have seen, Japanese are just as familiar with the concepts of "S" and "M". So I believe you if you see those themes cropping up as the story progresses. Some commentators have suggested that Nakamura suffers from "chuunibyou". Still others say that the manga author is a victim as well. |
okanaganApr 21, 2013 11:33 PM
| I love the ambience |
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| I'm getting the feeling that Kasuga and Nakamura might end up pretty bad. There's a lot of issues they have to tackle now. I like this series. There has to be space for different things in anime and for different demographics. I can understand if people who are fans of the manga hate the animation style, but everything else is pretty solid in my opinion. The sense of awkwardness and unhappiness coming from the characters really comes through. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| This is kind of similar to Chuunibyou tbh. Minus the whole moe comedy shit and KyoAni's brilliant animation. Not that it's better. I for sure am enjoying Aku no Hana more. Creepiest episode so far! Like it. 4/5 Even though I have no idea what happens later on in the story, I feel this sense of foreshadowing... Awesome :D |
| I'm not really loving it so far. Very very very slow paced, and nothing really seems to he happening. He stole a uniform, so what?... The direction is unreal and the art is cool, but the story itself kinda sucks so far. The opening is boring, the closing is simple but the music definitely freaks me out. Not a bad show, just wish something more was happening...ill give it another episode or 2 but so far not all that impressed |
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| Whoa, they're only in middle school?! I thought they were in high school ... oh man D: That scene with Nakamura in the bookstore was SO DANG CREEPS - oh man, I can't believe that happened but wow. IDEK what to think >_< Kasuga's starting to lose it ... TBH, I think the pace is slow but I can see what they're trying to do. Plus now that he stood up for Nakamura in class ... it's only going to get worse D: Ah, can't wait to see what they do with this ... every time I hear the ED ... it fits so perfectly with the show O_O |
| I do not why I am still watching it, I am neither that interested in a plot nor the line is terrible comparing it with manga. I think I'll drop it...if only Yoko Hikasa was not a seiyuu there... |
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| In his Post #169, Takuan_Soho wrote: ... it would denigrate into an "after school special" type story on the perils of non-conformist thinking. ... I think that you have really advanced the discussion by introducing the term "after school special". I know exactly what you mean. However, anybody here under age 50 might not know what they are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_school_special Is Aku no Hana in fact just a highly-simplistic morality tale aimed at 12-year-olds? That is what is meant by an "after school special". There are things to support this. Note the extreme crudeness of the art style in the manga. I was never good at art, but at least I have seen good drawings by young people. I feel that the characters in the manga are immaturely drawn, even at a basic level. If some people here actually know how to draw, please jump in here to correct me. Also, I don't see anything to convince me that the manga author is a deep thinker. I don't think he is using symbols, metaphors or allusions. I doubt he has a deep understanding of the poetry collection Les Fleurs du Mal except that it has a cool title, especially when translated into Japanese. Is Aku no Hana a good story? I would say yes. But this could simply be because it is semi-autobiographical based on what he was doing in Grade 8. If people here want to deeply analyze Aku no Hana, I am interested to read what they have to say. However, we are not doing a literary critique of Shakespeare (plays, poetry), Melville (Moby Dick) or Salinger (Catcher in the Rye). Rather, we are analyzing the psychology of a grown-up man with the mind of a 14-year-old. If Aku no Hana is a masterpiece, it is because the manga author chose to write plainly about his ordinary reality, as opposed to trying to use his intelligence to create great literature. |
| In his Post #162, Takuan_Soho wrote: He is a muttsuri sukebe, a pervert who is acting normal. "Muttsuri sukebe" (むっつり助平 / むっつりスケベ ) could be another helpful term for our discussion. 1. Is Kasuga really a muttsuri sukebe ? 2. Is Kasuga just a normal Grade 8 boy ? 3. Are (1) and (2) logically equivalent ?  |
LCSeixas said: Waiting for some subz... does anyone know how many chapters the anime adapted? I'm kinda worried with the pacing. I wonder if we'll see... I was wondering the same thing. At this rate we might not get there this season. |
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mayukachan said: This is kind of similar to Chuunibyou tbh. Minus the whole moe comedy shit and KyoAni's brilliant animation. Not that it's better. I for sure am enjoying Aku no Hana more. Creepiest episode so far! Like it. 4/5 Even though I have no idea what happens later on in the story, I feel this sense of foreshadowing... Awesome :D Lol, I don't see the Chuunibyou comparison at all. This is coming from someone who absolutely loved Chuunibyou. I definitely agree with you on feeling the foreshadowing. Some shit is definitely going to go down here soon. Its just building up ever so creepily :P. |
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bastek66 said: ^^THAT, was creepy. Takao is pretty weak letting a girl rape him -.-; God, I can't tell weather I like this anime or if I'm just enjoying the "uniqueness" it holds. Nonetheless, I will continue to watch.  Is that...a woman with facial hair? .-. |
onesnowyday_Apr 22, 2013 10:28 PM
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Takei_Hisa said: bastek66 said: ^^THAT, was creepy. Takao is pretty weak letting a girl rape him -.-; God, I can't tell weather I like this anime or if I'm just enjoying the "uniqueness" it holds. Nonetheless, I will continue to watch. Is that...a woman with facial hair? .-. Yes, asides from Ms. Muttonchops. |
| I play, the haters lose. |
| This show makes me feel very uncomfortable and I found myself cringing throughout the episode. The art style most definitely amplifies it, especially in the library scene. ...Ugh, reminds me of a similar experience I've had in elementary school. >_< How oddly things can escalate from stealing a gym uniform. If that were to happen where I live, anyone would just shrug it off with "hmm, so it was lost/someone took it (by mistake?), no big deal". NEVER a whole class getting involved with finding the culprit (who must have stolen it for sexual purposes, apparently). But as mentioned multiple times, I don't know how commonplace something like this is in Japan. Anyway, it feels very excruciating to watch Kasuga's actions when a simple task such as dumping some clothes in the bin makes him all fidgety and paranoid ("someone will see, someone will know!"). The way he sees the world in general is very 13-14-year-old-ish though, so that makes his reactions seem somewhat more understandable/believable to me. But still... I don't know whether I like this anime or not. It's a bit strange, because I don't find it boring but it makes me feel so weirded out that I'm not sure if I want to continue. Earwen said: You know what bothers me? The way Nakamura wears glasses over her hair. This bothers me too actually! It just feels wrong to have hair "trapped" inside the frames and she's wearing her glasses like that all the time instead of putting them on the CORRECT way, argh. XD |
| This quotes in this show have really convinced me that I need to read Les Fleurs du Mal in the near future. |
| I'm not really sure that I like this show. But I'm going to keep watching, if only to see what happens. Everything, from the animation to the music (which is some of the best suited to its subject matter that I've heard in an anime) to the script, is completely unnerving. Seeing a girl rip off a dude's clothes and replace them with a stolen gym uniform is unreal. I can't even count how many times I said "Why am I still watching?" ... Still, I can't wait to see more character development in the show. |
| Let this be our little secret, no needs to know we're feeling HIGHER AND HIGHER AND HIGHER! |
| This anime makes me so uncomfortable ;n; so far this episode and the two previous, I've had to drop them in the middle because I couldn't stand it. Then a few days later watch the second half... It's interesting though! I like it though! At this rate I wonder if I can keep watching, however... |
| Gahhhhh I was halfway through writing something and the page refreshed. 8( Anyway, I haven't read the ten pages of this thread, I was late watching the episode this week, so anyway I'll just put down my thoughts and if it's stuff that's already been addressed, deal with it. :P So is it just me or did the rotoscoping look even WORSE this episode? All the unnecessarily undulating lines and such... I liked the use of animation smears during the stripping scene, but that's really the only highlight of this episode that stuck out to me, animation-wise. Other than that, it's pretty clear that they're skimping on human quality assurance staff and are just letting computer programs draw the animation, which yields pretty shitty results. It's not even a matter of "atmosphere" or whatnot, it's the studio making poor decisions with budget cuts. (Disclaimer: I am not very business-savvy or even really animation industry-savvy; my forte is game development, so I'm just trying to apply what I know of that to what I suppose would be logical in animation. Feel free to point out any misconceptions I may have.) Also, what were those circles on Kasuga's back when Nakamura was stripping him? Vaccination pockmarks?? Oh but on the bright side they seemed to have lots of new pretty background art to linger on excessively!! I'll still watch the show, I'm curious to see where it's going, but I hope the animation doesn't deteriorate even more than it has. |
jimmy2027 said: Why thanks for your sarcasm, for adding insults upon the injuries of the anime industry. I am very eagerly awaiting for the live action series of this anime. You mean the one this anime painted over? |
| Kasuga is officially Nakamura's bitch. Just took ol' boy's clothes off in a public area :V |
Drizzy_Drake said: Kasuga is officially Nakamura's bitch. Just took ol' boy's clothes off in a public area :V lol |
| Just like after the first episode, I still believe the animation style is being purposely done this way to be creepy and give a wtf factor. The people and world is definitely supposed to have an "ugly" factor to it this I am sure of. The ambient music is well done, you've got to give it credit for that at least. |
| Really digging the atmosphere in this show. I'm really not having any issues with the art at all because it feels right, even though I understand it's not the greatest adaptation. I like shows with this kind of feeling though. Manga arguments aside, this show is worth a watch so far. |
singleturbo said: Just like after the first episode, I still believe the animation style is being purposely done this way to be creepy and give a wtf factor. The people and world is definitely supposed to have an "ugly" factor to it this I am sure of. The ambient music is well done, you've got to give it credit for that at least. Exactly |
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| The "rape" scene looked very fluid (pun intended). The rest of the episode: no. Fuck no. I am trying to get over its many art & animation flaws and inconsistancies, but this episode was the director taking delight in doing things badly, I can't explain it in other way. There's one thing called style, and a different one not knowing how to draw a face (some shots of random students were awfully deformed). The attack of the killer potatoes scene (AKA Kasuga trying to throw away the gym clothes scene) was even hilarious to watch. The gestures and movements are so slowed down that it manages to make up for the fact that they might look more realistic. And I tried it too hard to assume that this Nakamura was cute and/or pretty; she looked way better in the previous episode. The plotline is quite a mixed bag. For the first damn time, I have a clear example on Kasuga actually being the narcissistic prick I was expecting him to be. It's the first time I can associate his liking of Baudelaire to this personality trait. The problem, though, is that it doesn't seem to add anything so far, but well, at least it became well-defined. Nakamura's sort of internal issue seems to be something that will become increasingly interesting, and I hope they do something with that. The tension scenes were better handled here than in the previous episode. But the moment of the girl crying and overacting just because somebody stole her money, the very convenient turn of the whole classroom against Nakamura, Kasuga's random discourse on Saeki (I can accept that he's pedantic and affected, but that mixed with him being extremely introverted and his babbling manners just doesn't work)... These little moments are killing the relatability of the show. As well as overreacting on the stuff, which is a common trait in anime but I tend to spot more in this series (maybe due to its aesthetical choice of looking more based on reality and less cartoonized), it seems there's a need to add a touch of absurdity and eccentricity (the random "girl" is another example) that feels totally out of tone. I guess another 3/5. This was a little step down from the second episode. I liked the ending theme this time, though. And the opening has become more tolerable. |
| ^ Agreed 100%... except that I still don't like the opening and ending themes, but that's just personal preference, and I doubt they'll grow on me. I personally can't understand how people can keep writing off the blatant animation flaws as "atmosphere"... Lack of shading and facial features that phase in an out? Sure, I can see how that may have been intentional to add to the atmosphere (though I personally don't think this was the case, but whatever). But clothing creases and outlines that keep jittering on immobile characters? That's not atmosphere, that's sloppy animation being left in the hands of computers that can't understand that it looks like crap. |
Umeko said: ^ Agreed 100%... except that I still don't like the opening and ending themes, but that's just personal preference, and I doubt they'll grow on me. I personally can't understand how people can keep writing off the blatant animation flaws as "atmosphere"... Lack of shading and facial features that phase in an out? Sure, I can see how that may have been intentional to add to the atmosphere (though I personally don't think this was the case, but whatever). But clothing creases and outlines that keep jittering on immobile characters? That's not atmosphere, that's sloppy animation being left in the hands of computers that can't understand that it looks like crap. You seriously believe that the lack of shading and faceless background characters was NOT intentional? C'mon now. Rotoscoping, in general, has problems with outlines. Not just this anime, but everything I've ever saw that was rotoscoped. |
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KingYoshi said: You seriously believe that the lack of shading and faceless background characters was NOT intentional? C'mon now. Rotoscoping, in general, has problems with outlines. Not just this anime, but everything I've ever saw that was rotoscoped. Isn't that a contradiction? Rotoscoping may have your mentioned problems, but Aku no Hana seems to take every one of them and increase them by ten. |
| damn, i love both OP and ED song, and it keeps me for loving this show more and more. This show isn't bad really. |
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DareEvans said: Really digging the atmosphere in this show. I'm really not having any issues with the art at all because it feels right, even though I understand it's not the greatest adaptation. I like shows with this kind of feeling though. Manga arguments aside, this show is worth a watch so far. ye the art gives it a spooky atmosphere, although the story is so slow pace right now i doubt it will reach the |
j0x said: DareEvans said: Gosh, never heard that term used for it before. I already hate it.This episode went through just a little under 2 chapters. If they start making it a 2 chapters per episode then it would end just a little bit before that. I am guessing it is going to continue to move at this rate for the next two episodes. After that the series should be pretty easy to speed up. |
GizaruApr 25, 2013 1:19 PM
jal90 said: KingYoshi said: You seriously believe that the lack of shading and faceless background characters was NOT intentional? C'mon now. Rotoscoping, in general, has problems with outlines. Not just this anime, but everything I've ever saw that was rotoscoped. Isn't that a contradiction? Rotoscoping may have your mentioned problems, but Aku no Hana seems to take every one of them and increase them by ten. Wasn't meant to be a contradiction. My wording may have confused you. What I meant was, the faceless background characters and lack of shading were done intentionally. I don't feel the same about the outlines. I believe that is a general problem with rotoscoping unlike the faces and the shading. I think the lack of faces represents the unimportance of the actual character during that moment. They are simply background pieces. Faceless, mundane, but creepy like the atmosphere around them. The shading also helps add to the mundane setting and symbolizes a plain/mundane life that these characters are and have been experiencing. I'm sure this also helped keep the budget down as well, but I don't believe these decisions were based solely on the budget. |
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KingYoshi said: I think the lack of faces represents the unimportance of the actual character during that moment. They are simply background pieces. Faceless, mundane, but creepy like the atmosphere around them. The shading also helps add to the mundane setting and symbolizes a plain/mundane life that these characters are and have been experiencing. I'm sure this also helped keep the budget down as well, but I don't believe these decisions were based solely on the budget. Yep, I read that comment before. The problem? That this trait is even shown on Kasuga. And on Nakamura. In scenes where the focus is clearly put on them (let's say, in this episode, Kasuga refusing to go out with his friends, or Nakamura waiting at the library). I wouldn't mind that if there was some consistency towards the idea, but the thing is: people only become faceless depending on how far they are from the "camera", NOT because of some obscure metaphorical reason. Regardless of them being main characters or random space-fillers, or the narrative focus being on them or on something else. |
jal90Apr 25, 2013 1:06 PM
jal90 said: KingYoshi said: I think the lack of faces represents the unimportance of the actual character during that moment. They are simply background pieces. Faceless, mundane, but creepy like the atmosphere around them. The shading also helps add to the mundane setting and symbolizes a plain/mundane life that these characters are and have been experiencing. I'm sure this also helped keep the budget down as well, but I don't believe these decisions were based solely on the budget. Yep, I read that comment before. The problem? That this trait is even shown on Kasuga. And on Nakamura. In scenes where the focus is clearly put on them (let's say, in this episode, Kasuga refusing to go out with his friends, or Nakamura waiting at the library). I wouldn't mind that if there was some consistency towards the idea, but the thing is: people only become faceless depending on how far they are from the "camera", NOT because of some obscure metaphorical reason. Regardless of them being main characters or random space-fillers, or the narrative focus being on them or on something else. Maybe it just looks better that way |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
Ghostony said: jal90 said: KingYoshi said: I think the lack of faces represents the unimportance of the actual character during that moment. They are simply background pieces. Faceless, mundane, but creepy like the atmosphere around them. The shading also helps add to the mundane setting and symbolizes a plain/mundane life that these characters are and have been experiencing. I'm sure this also helped keep the budget down as well, but I don't believe these decisions were based solely on the budget. Yep, I read that comment before. The problem? That this trait is even shown on Kasuga. And on Nakamura. In scenes where the focus is clearly put on them (let's say, in this episode, Kasuga refusing to go out with his friends, or Nakamura waiting at the library). I wouldn't mind that if there was some consistency towards the idea, but the thing is: people only become faceless depending on how far they are from the "camera", NOT because of some obscure metaphorical reason. Regardless of them being main characters or random space-fillers, or the narrative focus being on them or on something else. Maybe it just looks better that way I wouldn't be complaining if it did. |
| Dropped. By the library scene, I couldn't handle it anymore. The plain disgusting and weird nature of the show, along with the animation, really pestered me to no end. At first I enjoyed it, because of the great eerie atmosphere, and beautiful backgrounds. But I couldn't handle this; it's just blatantly weird, gross, and it sends chills down my back. I'm not going to subject myself to such visual torture. xD Byebye, Flowers of Evil. I will not miss you. |
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