Best battle shonen anime?

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Aug 2018

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Schwarznight said:

MrNegr0 said:
Hunter x Hunter is the peak of battle oriented shounen. And lmao at the notion that seinen is inherently better than shounen.

Peak in terms of what? This thread is so ambiguous. I have attempted to rank some famous battle shounen for different things.

In terms of innovative attacks, Naruto is well above H x H. If we are talking about story, then FMAB is probably the most coherent. H x H has quite a lot of pacing issues, though it can be said the same of FMAB. In terms of visuals, OPM S1 (studio Madhouse) is probably the best, followed by Demon Slayer. DBZ and dragonball are iconic. No battle shounen character is more famous than Goku.

Idk what you mean by innovative attacks. With HxH and FMA:B I think you’re conflating poor pacing with buildup. The Chimera Ant arc spends time fleshing out all those low level ants because they’re crucial later on during the Palace Invasion Arc to get shit moving. Without them the plot would be hollow and make no sense. FMA:B also takes it’s time to introduce all it’s pieces and build up a plot. I’d say Hunter x Hunter beats Fullmetal Alchemist when it comes to plot because the payoff for Chimera Ant (which is the most similar to FMA:B structure wise IMO) is a lot better while the climax for FMA:B is good but not amazing

Apr 10, 2022 3:08 PM

#153

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MrNegr0 said:

Schwarznight said:

Peak in terms of what? This thread is so ambiguous. I have attempted to rank some famous battle shounen for different things.

In terms of innovative attacks, Naruto is well above H x H. If we are talking about story, then FMAB is probably the most coherent. H x H has quite a lot of pacing issues, though it can be said the same of FMAB. In terms of visuals, OPM S1 (studio Madhouse) is probably the best, followed by Demon Slayer. DBZ and dragonball are iconic. No battle shounen character is more famous than Goku.

Idk what you mean by innovative attacks. With HxH and FMA:B I think you’re conflating poor pacing with buildup. The Chimera Ant arc spends time fleshing out all those low level ants because they’re crucial later on during the Palace Invasion Arc to get shit moving. Without them the plot would be hollow and make no sense. FMA:B also takes it’s time to introduce all it’s pieces and build up a plot. I’d say Hunter x Hunter beats Fullmetal Alchemist when it comes to plot because the payoff for Chimera Ant (which is the most similar to FMA:B structure wise IMO) is a lot better while the climax for FMA:B is good but not amazing

H x H feels more shounen-esque than FMAB, contrary to what a lot of H x H fans say. FMAB feels more coherent, with the sins, Scar, Father....the Philosopher's Stone... I actually found the chimera ant arcs to be one of the worst in shounen in general. It was a drag. Even the Meruem vs Netereo fight was disappointing (but the animation..and Netero's resolve were cool), because how lopsided it was...and how it had to end with a nuke. Cheap. Naruto has also a lot of issues, but these are more to do with fillers...power creep...and a shitty ending that was intentionally done to prolong the franchise with Boruto. What I mean by innovative attacks is the fighting style...and creativity that went into it..The Uchia clan's attacks and powers are fascinating, for example.

Apr 10, 2022 4:38 PM

#154

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Aug 2018

155

Schwarznight said:

MrNegr0 said:

Idk what you mean by innovative attacks. With HxH and FMA:B I think you’re conflating poor pacing with buildup. The Chimera Ant arc spends time fleshing out all those low level ants because they’re crucial later on during the Palace Invasion Arc to get shit moving. Without them the plot would be hollow and make no sense. FMA:B also takes it’s time to introduce all it’s pieces and build up a plot. I’d say Hunter x Hunter beats Fullmetal Alchemist when it comes to plot because the payoff for Chimera Ant (which is the most similar to FMA:B structure wise IMO) is a lot better while the climax for FMA:B is good but not amazing

H x H feels more shounen-esque than FMAB, contrary to what a lot of H x H fans say. FMAB feels more coherent, with the sins, Scar, Father....the Philosopher's Stone... I actually found the chimera ant arcs to be one of the worst in shounen in general. It was a drag. Even the Meruem vs Netereo fight was disappointing (but the animation..and Netero's resolve were cool), because how lopsided it was...and how it had to end with a nuke. Cheap. Naruto has also a lot of issues, but these are more to do with fillers...power creep...and a shitty ending that was intentionally done to prolong the franchise with Boruto. What I mean by innovative attacks is the fighting style...and creativity that went into it..The Uchia clan's attacks and powers are fascinating, for example.

Vague af post. Whatever, it’s your opinion.

Apr 10, 2022 4:44 PM

#155

Recynon

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Dec 2019

389

First of all don't lump Avatar with the rest of the battle shounen trash. Second of all there are no good battle shounen because the genre conventions make them inherently bad anime. Fullmetal Alchemist (2003) was a good show only because it wasn't a battle shounen. Before Kekkaishi became a battle shounen it would've technically been the best.

RecynonApr 10, 2022 4:51 PM

Apr 10, 2022 4:52 PM

#156

TheRailTracerMAL

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Feb 2019

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Mob Psycho 100 is better than all of them. But FMAB comes close.

Apr 10, 2022 4:56 PM

#157

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TheRailTracerMAL said:
Mob Psycho 100 is better than all of them. But FMAB comes close.

I'd argue that OPM S1 is > Mob. Same creator, but better art. Saitama's response to the brat during the Deepsea King fight cements Saitama as a real hero. GOATed.

Apr 10, 2022 5:07 PM

#158

TheRailTracerMAL

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Feb 2019

718

Schwarznight said:

TheRailTracerMAL said:
Mob Psycho 100 is better than all of them. But FMAB comes close.

I'd argue that OPM S1 is > Mob. Same creator, but better art. Saitama's response to the brat during the Deepsea King fight cements Saitama as a real hero. GOATed.

I can see why, but eh, not my cup of tea. The repetitive jokes and "beating the enemy after one punch" gimmick got old for me eventually. Meanwhile, Mob Psycho manages to balance its comedy with well-presented drama and in general, is more grounded with its coming-of-age themes. Also, the art in OPM was actually drawn by a different (and veteran) artist from what I've heard.

Apr 10, 2022 5:12 PM

#159

019XYZ

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Jan 2022

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@Schwarznight

The powers and abilities in Bleach are far more creative and diverse than those in Naruto, and I'd also argue it has the best power system (reiatsu) out of any battle shounen. Although Naruto likes to elaborate on its abilities such as the Sharingan and Rinnegan a lot, and undoubtedly has one of largest movepools out of any battle shounen, a lot of the jutsu are just pedantic manipulations of the elements. Elemental powers by themselves aren't anything unique in fiction either. You haven't read the Thousand Year Blood War, but you will find some of the most unique and interesting powers there, because unlike Naruto, Bleach goes into abstract territory with them such as reality warping, conceptual manipulation, causality manipulation, fate manipulation, probability manipulation and whatnot. Existential, incorporeal stuff like that, which few Naruto moves like Izanagi consist of. All of this without being annoyingly complex and convoluted with its powers; most abilities in Bleach are simple yet utterly striking. Which is one of the reasons why I found the fights in Bleach more enjoyable, because although those in Naruto are a lot more strategic, they still ultimately boil down to materialistic "if I have this much energy, I can use it to destroy this much" as opposed to "my power allows me dominion over this". Bleach fights are also some of the most dynamic and philosphical (Kubo is a poet, after all). A lot of Naruto fights are still definitely top-tier however, especially the taijutsu-focused ones, which are some of the best choreographed I've seen.

And a lot of thought is put into assigning powers to characters in Bleach unlike in Naruto; every single character's abilities complementing them and their philosophy. Sometimes the assignment of powers to characters in Naruto is completely random and creates an uncorrelated movepool for them. Most of the cool ones are reserved for major characters like Sasuke, Itachi and Madara while the side characters like Sakura get the bottom of the barrel, anyway.

All of that being said, jutsu are still more fleshed out than Kido (although I find the latter cooler), and a wider variety of techniques are utilized in fights, even if I think generally speaking they're more diverse in Bleach. Stuff like genjutsu, Kamui, Amaterasu, Shinra Tensei, Izanagi and Susanoo are up there as some of the coolest powers in battle shounen, and coincidentally enough most of those I've listed are of the haxed variant that Bleach is notorious for being with its powers.

Agreed with Naruto's movepool >> HxH's movepool, as well.

Apr 10, 2022 5:12 PM

#160

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TheRailTracerMAL said:

Schwarznight said:

I'd argue that OPM S1 is > Mob. Same creator, but better art. Saitama's response to the brat during the Deepsea King fight cements Saitama as a real hero. GOATed.

I can see why, but eh, not my cup of tea. The repetitive jokes and "beating the enemy after one punch" gimmick got old for me eventually. Meanwhile, Mob Psycho manages to balance its comedy with well-presented drama and in general, is more grounded with its coming-of-age themes. Also, the art in OPM was actually drawn by a different (and veteran) artist from what I've heard.

Talking about Studio Madhouse...not the actual manga. One apparently couldn't draw that well. OPM S2 had shit production values, but S1 was above Demon Slayer, imo. Crisp animation. Gens fight...and also final boss fight. Used the medium really well. The jokes were repetitive, but it was fresh. Besides, I was hoping that Saitama will get challenged at one point...I could feel his pain...He trained so hard to be the best...And now the power he trained so hard for has become a curse for him, but a blessing for others... Though most are oblivious to his strength and ridicule his C rank. When he gave credit to Mumen rider and the others during the Deapsea king...I knew this guy was deeper than many people say. On the surface it's a gag anime... But there is depth when you look closely. I'd argue that his values make him a great hero, as opposed to his strength.

Apr 10, 2022 5:18 PM

#161

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FALSE_G0D said:
@Schwarznight

The powers and abilities in Bleach are far more creative and diverse than those in Naruto, and I'd also argue it has the best power system (reiatsu) out of any battle shounen. Although Naruto likes to elaborate on its abilities such as the Sharingan and Rinnegan a lot, and undoubtedly has one of largest movepools out of any battle shounen, a lot of the jutsu are just pedantic manipulations of the elements. Elemental powers by themselves aren't anything unique in fiction either. You haven't read the Thousand Year Blood War, but you will find some of the most unique and interesting powers there, because unlike Naruto, Bleach goes into abstract territory with them such as reality warping, conceptual manipulation, causality manipulation, fate manipulation, probability manipulation and whatnot. Existential, incorporeal stuff like that, which few Naruto moves like Izanagi consist of. All of this without being annoyingly complex and convoluted with its powers; most abilities in Bleach are simple yet utterly striking. Which is one of the reasons why I found the fights in Bleach more enjoyable, because although those in Naruto are a lot more strategic, they still ultimately boil down to materialistic "if I have this much energy, I can use it to destroy this much" as opposed to "my power allows me dominion over this". Bleach fights are also some of the most dynamic and philosphical (Kubo is a poet, after all). A lot of Naruto fights are still definitely top-tier however, especially the taijutsu-focused ones, which are some of the best choreographed I've seen.

And a lot of thought is put into assigning powers to characters in Bleach unlike in Naruto; every single character's abilities complementing them and their philosophy. Sometimes the assignment of powers to characters in Naruto are completely random and create an uncorrelated movepool for them. Most of the cool ones are reserved for major characters like Sasuke, Itachi and Madara while the side characters like Sakura get the bottom of the barrel, anyway.

All of that being said, jutsu are still more fleshed out than Kido (although I find the latter cooler), and a wider variety of techniques are utilized in fights, even if I think generally speaking they're more diverse in Bleach. Stuff like genjutsu, Kamui, Amaterasu, Shinra Tensei, Izanagi and Susanoo are up there as some of the coolest powers in battle shounen, and coincidentally enough most of those I've listed are of the haxed variant that Bleach is notorious for being with its powers.

Agreed with Naruto's movepool >> HxH's movepool, as well.

Was basing it off the animation as I have not read the Bleach manga. 10-tails Madara with Limbo and black orbs...whatnot was already pretty creative. I mean the Uchia clan alone has some of the most epic techiques in all of battle shounen... as you know. Susano...Amaterasu...Katun... Clones....Clones with Susano...Izanami and Izanagi... Etc. Or take Jiraiya or Deidara as examples. I'd say it's debatable at this level. Still, the fights in Naruto were more enjoyable than what I saw in Bleach (animation). I highly doubt that Bleach will ever animate an episode as well as the Madara entrance scene. Madara literally catches a kunai...sticks the explosive on some guy...and the plays Fruit Ninja with everyone...two guys try to hit him from the flanks...and one guy from below....he takes both out on the side...before landing and impaling the hidden guy below.... Epic af the choreography. The strategies are also better.

Apr 10, 2022 5:24 PM

#162

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755

FALSE_G0D said:
@Schwarznight

The powers and abilities in Bleach are far more creative and diverse than those in Naruto, and I'd also argue it has the best power system (reiatsu) out of any battle shounen. Although Naruto likes to elaborate on its abilities such as the Sharingan and Rinnegan a lot, and undoubtedly has one of largest movepools out of any battle shounen, a lot of the jutsu are just pedantic manipulations of the elements. Elemental powers by themselves aren't anything unique in fiction either. You haven't read the Thousand Year Blood War, but you will find some of the most unique and interesting powers there, because unlike Naruto, Bleach goes into abstract territory with them such as reality warping, conceptual manipulation, causality manipulation, fate manipulation, probability manipulation and whatnot. Existential, incorporeal stuff like that, which few Naruto moves like Izanagi consist of. All of this without being annoyingly complex and convoluted with its powers; most abilities in Bleach are simple yet utterly striking. Which is one of the reasons why I found the fights in Bleach more enjoyable, because although those in Naruto are a lot more strategic, they still ultimately boil down to materialistic "if I have this much energy, I can use it to destroy this much" as opposed to "my power allows me dominion over this". Bleach fights are also some of the most dynamic and philosphical (Kubo is a poet, after all). A lot of Naruto fights are still definitely top-tier however, especially the taijutsu-focused ones, which are some of the best choreographed I've seen.

And a lot of thought is put into assigning powers to characters in Bleach unlike in Naruto; every single character's abilities complementing them and their philosophy. Sometimes the assignment of powers to characters in Naruto is completely random and creates an uncorrelated movepool for them. Most of the cool ones are reserved for major characters like Sasuke, Itachi and Madara while the side characters like Sakura get the bottom of the barrel, anyway.

All of that being said, jutsu are still more fleshed out than Kido (although I find the latter cooler), and a wider variety of techniques are utilized in fights, even if I think generally speaking they're more diverse in Bleach. Stuff like genjutsu, Kamui, Amaterasu, Shinra Tensei, Izanagi and Susanoo are up there as some of the coolest powers in battle shounen, and coincidentally enough most of those I've listed are of the haxed variant that Bleach is notorious for being with its powers.

Agreed with Naruto's movepool >> HxH's movepool, as well.

Still like Aizen a lot. His Japanese voice actor is epic af...And Aizen is just GOAT. Felt like Bleach took a major hit after his main arc. Aizen is so savage and arrogant... Probably my fav battle shounen antagonist. Could literally compile a list of arrogant quotes, lol. Though Madara is also arrogant. Funny to see Madara vs Aizen battles. But I think Bleach characters are an order of magnitude stronger than Naruto characters.... These guys are basically semi-Dbz level... Yamamoto is also epic af.

Apr 10, 2022 5:31 PM

#163

Pakumen-

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It´s HxH and it´s not even close. One of the very few shonen that makes sense and its able to tell a story without compromising anything else.

Apr 10, 2022 5:37 PM

#164

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Pakumen- said:
It´s HxH and it´s not even close. One of the very few shonen that makes sense and its able to tell a story without compromising anything else.

How is it not even close? In what aspect? Story? Fights? The fights in H X H are ass. Naruto and Bleach are leagues above H x H in the fighting department.

Netero vs Meruem fight, while nice to look at, was pretty lame, considering how hyped up Netero was. Onesided fight...with a cheap ending...

Apr 10, 2022 5:44 PM

#165

TheRailTracerMAL

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Feb 2019

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Schwarznight said:

TheRailTracerMAL said:

I can see why, but eh, not my cup of tea. The repetitive jokes and "beating the enemy after one punch" gimmick got old for me eventually. Meanwhile, Mob Psycho manages to balance its comedy with well-presented drama and in general, is more grounded with its coming-of-age themes. Also, the art in OPM was actually drawn by a different (and veteran) artist from what I've heard.

Talking about Studio Madhouse...not the actual manga. One apparently couldn't draw that well. OPM S2 had shit production values, but S1 was above Demon Slayer, imo. Crisp animation. Gens fight...and also final boss fight. Used the medium really well. The jokes were repetitive, but it was fresh. Besides, I was hoping that Saitama will get challenged at one point...I could feel his pain...He trained so hard to be the best...And now the power he trained so hard for has become a curse for him, but a blessing for others... Though most are oblivious to his strength and ridicule his C rank. When he gave credit to Mumen rider and the others during the Deapsea king...I knew this guy was deeper than many people say. On the surface it's a gag anime... But there is depth when you look closely. I'd argue that his values make him a great hero, as opposed to his strength.

Ah, I see. Although, I prefer mob's rather unconventional yet creative art, and with Bones' interesting color pallete. Different strokes ig. Also, season 2 of Mob Psycho imo, has one of the most crisp and consistent animation the medium has to offer, though a bit underrated and overshadowed by OPM's, Demon Slayer, etc. And I agree, there definitely is depth and more to OPM than a superficial braindead gag show (as shown in the scenes you mentioned). But the way I see it is: OPM is a comedy-centric show with drama elements and rather subtle depth, whereas, Mob Psycho is a more grounded coming-of-age drama with heavy comedic undertones. When it comes to which is better, it all boils down to preferrence ig.

Apr 10, 2022 5:50 PM

#166

019XYZ

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Jan 2022

89

Schwarznight said:

FALSE_G0D said:
@Schwarznight

The powers and abilities in Bleach are far more creative and diverse than those in Naruto, and I'd also argue it has the best power system (reiatsu) out of any battle shounen. Although Naruto likes to elaborate on its abilities such as the Sharingan and Rinnegan a lot, and undoubtedly has one of largest movepools out of any battle shounen, a lot of the jutsu are just pedantic manipulations of the elements. Elemental powers by themselves aren't anything unique in fiction either. You haven't read the Thousand Year Blood War, but you will find some of the most unique and interesting powers there, because unlike Naruto, Bleach goes into abstract territory with them such as reality warping, conceptual manipulation, causality manipulation, fate manipulation, probability manipulation and whatnot. Existential, incorporeal stuff like that, which few Naruto moves like Izanagi consist of. All of this without being annoyingly complex and convoluted with its powers; most abilities in Bleach are simple yet utterly striking. Which is one of the reasons why I found the fights in Bleach more enjoyable, because although those in Naruto are a lot more strategic, they still ultimately boil down to materialistic "if I have this much energy, I can use it to destroy this much" as opposed to "my power allows me dominion over this". Bleach fights are also some of the most dynamic and philosphical (Kubo is a poet, after all). A lot of Naruto fights are still definitely top-tier however, especially the taijutsu-focused ones, which are some of the best choreographed I've seen.

And a lot of thought is put into assigning powers to characters in Bleach unlike in Naruto; every single character's abilities complementing them and their philosophy. Sometimes the assignment of powers to characters in Naruto is completely random and creates an uncorrelated movepool for them. Most of the cool ones are reserved for major characters like Sasuke, Itachi and Madara while the side characters like Sakura get the bottom of the barrel, anyway.

All of that being said, jutsu are still more fleshed out than Kido (although I find the latter cooler), and a wider variety of techniques are utilized in fights, even if I think generally speaking they're more diverse in Bleach. Stuff like genjutsu, Kamui, Amaterasu, Shinra Tensei, Izanagi and Susanoo are up there as some of the coolest powers in battle shounen, and coincidentally enough most of those I've listed are of the haxed variant that Bleach is notorious for being with its powers.

Agreed with Naruto's movepool >> HxH's movepool, as well.

Still like Aizen a lot. His Japanese voice actor is epic af...And Aizen is just GOAT. Felt like Bleach took a major hit after his main arc. Aizen is so savage and arrogant... Probably my fav battle shounen antagonist. Could literally compile a list of arrogant quotes, lol. Though Madara is also arrogant. Funny to see Madara vs Aizen battles. But I think Bleach characters are an order of magnitude stronger than Naruto characters.... These guys are basically semi-Dbz level... Yamamoto is also epic af.

Yeah, agreed with all of that. The villains are the highlight in Bleach. Aizen is one of the most charismatic characters in animanga, but Yhwach (the main villain of the final arc) is an equally good villain for different reasons I believe. The former is a methodical, shadowy mastermind scientist while the latter is a boots-on-the-ground, direct, overimposing warrior (their contrasts are aesthetically shown with the predominant colour in Aizen's character design being white while Yhwach's being black). Yhwach also accomplishes what Aizen wanted to in just the span of 100 chapters. You've probably heard his name being thrown around if you're familiar with powerscaling, since he's absolutely busted (his main ability literally being called 'The Almighty' lol).

Would recommend you read the Bleach manga from the beginning in preparation for the upcoming anime adaptation of the final arc btw. We Bleach chads are eating like kings, and Kubo is taking abolute Ws. I wrote an elaborate post on another thread on why you should here:

FALSE_G0D said:

Apr 10, 2022 5:56 PM

#167

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TheRailTracerMAL said:

Schwarznight said:

Talking about Studio Madhouse...not the actual manga. One apparently couldn't draw that well. OPM S2 had shit production values, but S1 was above Demon Slayer, imo. Crisp animation. Gens fight...and also final boss fight. Used the medium really well. The jokes were repetitive, but it was fresh. Besides, I was hoping that Saitama will get challenged at one point...I could feel his pain...He trained so hard to be the best...And now the power he trained so hard for has become a curse for him, but a blessing for others... Though most are oblivious to his strength and ridicule his C rank. When he gave credit to Mumen rider and the others during the Deapsea king...I knew this guy was deeper than many people say. On the surface it's a gag anime... But there is depth when you look closely. I'd argue that his values make him a great hero, as opposed to his strength.

Ah, I see. Although, I prefer mob's rather unconventional yet creative art, and with Bones' interesting color pallete. Different strokes ig. Also, season 2 of Mob Psycho imo, has one of the most crisp and consistent animation the medium has to offer, though a bit underrated and overshadowed by OPM's, Demon Slayer, etc. And I agree, there definitely is depth and more to OPM than a superficial braindead gag show (as shown in the scenes you mentioned). But the way I see it is: OPM is a comedy-centric show with drama elements and rather subtle depth, whereas, Mob Psycho is a more grounded coming-of-age drama with heavy comedic undertones. When it comes to which is better, it all boils down to preferrence ig.

Nice answers. Yeah, man. I also liked Mob Psycho. S2 was great. Loved the rage meter...and his hairstyle and facial expression.

Apr 10, 2022 6:11 PM

#168

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ComboSmooth said:
Interesting that so many people picked HxH.
For as much as it is a battle shonen, it is also not a battle shonen at all.
Its definitely more of an adventure show with long arcs where fighting isnt the focus.

I picked Demon Slayer because it's definitely a battle shonen with little else going on. But with such high production values that its always hype to watch.

DBZ is my most nostalgic anime, but i would never consider it the best anything. In fact, I think Yu Yu Hakusho is a slightly better show.

And despite how much i like Hokuto no Ken, it is just brutal to physically sit through all of it.

Akame ga Kill has a better manga than anime. the anime screwed the pooch a little bit.

Attack on Titan is more about mystery and politics than it is a battle shonen.

one piece is great and all, but the fillerpalooza of it really drains tension from the show.

chainsaw man isnt worth the amount of praise people heap on to it. The overhype is going to hurt the anime for sure.

i got nothing bad to say about avatar, holistically it is probably better than demon slayer, but i still went with Demon Slayer as a pure battle shonen

DBZ not the best at anything? It has the most iconic characters not just in battle shounen, but in anime. Goku and Frieza alone are iconic af, and almost everyone who has watched anime or heard of it will recognise at least Goku. When you think of anime... Pikachu comes to mind...Goku comes to mind...Frieza comes to mind...Maybe Yu Gi and his crazy hair... And possibly Sailor Moon. And it is only after this everyone else comes to mind. Talking about casuals...who have stopped watching anime...Modern watchers will not be familiar with Sailor Moon, but they should know Goku.

Apr 11, 2022 3:18 AM

#169

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Aug 2018

155

Schwarznight said:

Pakumen- said:
It´s HxH and it´s not even close. One of the very few shonen that makes sense and its able to tell a story without compromising anything else.

How is it not even close? In what aspect? Story? Fights? The fights in H X H are ass. Naruto and Bleach are leagues above H x H in the fighting department.

Netero vs Meruem fight, while nice to look at, was pretty lame, considering how hyped up Netero was. Onesided fight...with a cheap ending...

You’re completely missing the appeal of Hunter x Hunter’s fights. The appeal is that they don’t stick to a generic structure/conclusion and character motivations + chaos play a big part is messing around with the fights. Netero was never planning on beating Meruem fair and square, his job was to lure out and nuke Meruem’s ass. He also wanted to put his entire skillset in an epic final fight against the one opponent who could handle it. Netero beating Meruem fair and square would be dumb and cliche as hell. If you think it would’ve been better that way then you have poor taste

Apr 11, 2022 6:30 AM

#170

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Aug 2020

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Mosesaa said:

Schwarznight said:

It is...because he was up against a group of people with different powers. The area was tight and challenging. He used oil and fire techniques. He had to think on his feet, so that it wasn't 3 vs 1....4 vs 1...etc. Eventually, he had to summon the grandpa and grandma frog to help him, but still he had to use his his brain. He was outnumbered. The enemy knew about him, but he didn't know about the enemy until the end.

Even a character like Shikamaru was brilliant when you look back to the chuunin exams, with the head bang against the wall. Little things like this.

When Gara was fighting Deidara...that was tight as well. Him protecting himself in that ball of sand...and that ball of sand becoming his own prison.

Chess, not checkers.

I have seen most shounen. Naruto has a lot of filler and pacing issues. But the creativity of the fights is better than dbz, one piece, hunter x hunter, etc.

Definition of Strategy-

A strategy is a general plan or set of plans intended to achieve something, especially over a long period.

Emphasis on "long period", which invalidate all things you said. Jiraya and Gaara never planned those things, they come up with things in between the fights , which is not a strategy.

Where as Kurapika planned everything way before he meet spiders.

The only one in Naruto who is good at strategy is Shikamaru.

TheRailTracerMAL said:
Mob Psycho 100 is better than all of them. But FMAB comes close.

Except Mob Psycho technically not a shounen.

Don't paste a definition from Google. English is not even your first language, I can tell.

I am not going to waste more time on you. I can tell that I am definitely older than you. Your arguments are juvenile.

Apr 11, 2022 6:33 AM

#171

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755

MrNegr0 said:

Schwarznight said:

How is it not even close? In what aspect? Story? Fights? The fights in H X H are ass. Naruto and Bleach are leagues above H x H in the fighting department.

Netero vs Meruem fight, while nice to look at, was pretty lame, considering how hyped up Netero was. Onesided fight...with a cheap ending...

You’re completely missing the appeal of Hunter x Hunter’s fights. The appeal is that they don’t stick to a generic structure/conclusion and character motivations + chaos play a big part is messing around with the fights. Netero was never planning on beating Meruem fair and square, his job was to lure out and nuke Meruem’s ass. He also wanted to put his entire skillset in an epic final fight against the one opponent who could handle it. Netero beating Meruem fair and square would be dumb and cliche as hell. If you think it would’ve been better that way then you have poor taste

Most H X H fans always say something similar.

Netero's nuke move was cheap. It's a fact that the best fights in Naruto or Bleach >> H x H. I have grown up with Shounen and can tell which shows have more engaging fights. H x H probably has some aspects which are better than Bleach or Naruto, but the fights are not one one of them.

Apr 11, 2022 6:46 AM

#172

Memore

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Feb 2021

6982

For me it is Hunte X Hunter, Fate: Stay/Night.

Apr 11, 2022 6:57 AM

#173

Carmallion

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Jan 2021

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The one with more budget and less filler, I don't watch battle-shonen for plot and slice of life.

Apr 11, 2022 7:05 AM

#174

Kot_Schlyopa

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Aug 2021

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FMAB obviously peak

HxH is incomplete but probably at par with FMAB. Idk how its manga doing right now though .

AoT surpassed even FMAB in first 3 seasons but then it went downhill to the gutter.

Read a few chapters of chainsawman and it looked promising.

An unpopular manga called sengoku youko, i read its few chapters and it too looks very promising.

Magi and Naruto had great startings but suffer from flaws.

Avatar is well written but didn't entertain me much.

These are the best battle shounens or have best parts imo.

Apr 11, 2022 7:07 AM

#175

bro11

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Apr 2020

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If we're looking at it from purely a battle standpoint then HxH wins by far in my opinion

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Apr 11, 2022 7:47 AM

#176

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Aug 2020

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Mosesaa said:

Schwarznight said:

Don't paste a definition from Google. English is not even your first language, I can tell.

I am not going to waste more time on you. I can tell that I am definitely older than you. Your arguments are juvenile.

When you bring "I am definitely older than you" in the discussion it simply says how shit you are.

I checked your list and i don't find HxH in it. Now I'm going to assume that you haven't even watched it. You have just seen some of the clips on You Tube and wasting others times.

@MrNegr0 Don't waste your time with this troll. It's clear that he hasn't watched HxH. He keeps making lame excuses when thrown with facts and logic.

I'm sure he doesn't understand the purpose of nuke that's why he keep calling it cheap.Let him be mad, HxH is already at the top (means many consider it best in its genre, atleast on MAL).

No one need to prove him anything.

I have seen HxH. Same with DBZ. I don't put everything up. Cba. You can also have a strategy for a short-term goal. You are just finding definitions to suit your agenda. I gave you enough points on Jiraiya. You are just another irritating diehard H x H fan. I can see the flaws in Naruto, but you can't see the flaws in H x H. Our conversation is over. Don't respond to me again. Sick of you clowns.

Apr 11, 2022 7:49 AM

#177

GarouWolf

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Oct 2021

722

EiyuuuOu said:
Kamen Rider is the only correct answer here.

Yes, this is the only sensible choice indeed.

But all seriousness from the ones listed I would say FMAB or HxH

Apr 11, 2022 8:06 AM

#178

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Mosesaa said:

Schwarznight said:

I have seen HxH.Same with DBZ. I don't put everything up. Cba.

No, you didn't stop lying.

You can also have a strategy for a short-term goal. You are just finding definitions to suit your agenda.I gave you enough points on Jiraiya.

The fact jiraiya never "planned" those things before his fights simply says it's not strategy. Strategy requires planning which he never done ,he even didn't know about Pain.Coming up with the things in between fight is not a strategy.

I can see the flaws in Naruto, but you can't see the flaws in H x H.

We are not discussing flaw here. So I don't know why you are bringing things which have nothing to do with this discussion.

You are just another irritating diehard H x H fan. Our conversation is over. Don't respond to me again. Sick of you clowns.

And you are another butthurt Narutard,how is trying to prove something which don't exist.

"Clown" "You are kid, I'm adults". This kind of argument is used by losers who can't argue.

I don't want to say this....but you are clown here.

And this my last reply to you.

You can have strategies on the fly. You pasting a dumb definition from the internet changes nothing. Do you want me to find you 10 definitions that don't mention long term? Terrible. Learn how to make arguments before sounding like a clown.

Apr 11, 2022 8:08 AM

#179

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57

One piece and Bleach. Could say Naruto as well but prefer these two.
Hxh is the most overhyed and overrated shonen. CAA arc is worst arc I have ever seen.
Aot was Outstanding before but ruined by S4 which was garbage.
Fmab is Perfect so that could be said as well.
But I do not mind any of these being mentioned besides HxH. Nowhere near the top.

ICHIGO890Apr 11, 2022 8:14 AM

Apr 11, 2022 8:18 AM

#180

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Aug 2020

755

Mosesaa said:
@Schwarznight i want you to find 1 definition that don't mention "planning".

And re-read my last post

Stop with the insults otherwise if i come then i will be hard for you.

Williamson Murray and Mark Grimsley: “Strategy is a process, a constant adaptation to the shifting conditions and circumstances in a world where chance, uncertainty, and ambiguity dominate.”

Edit: Jiraiya had to plan his move. It doesn't matter how long it takes. Some people are smarter. Say you have one guy who takes 1 week to come up with a plan. Some people can come up with it in maybe an hour. It's all vague. Even the word planning. Jiraiya has a high battle IQ. Adapting is the name of the game. Kurapika is not in the same bracket.

Apr 11, 2022 8:26 AM

#181

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755

ICHIGO890 said:
One piece and Bleach. Could say Naruto as well but prefer these two.
Hxh is the most overhyed and overrated shonen. CAA arc is worst arc I have ever seen.
Aot was Outstanding before but ruined by S4 which was garbage.
Fmab is Perfect so that could be said as well.
But I do not mind any of these being mentioned besides HxH. Nowhere near the top.

Agree with H x H being overrated. People say that it is like a seinen...that it is so dark and mature. BS. Gon literally gets revived and has thick plot armor. Netero Meruem fight with the nuke ending was cheap af. Gon suddenly becoming adult Gon...is cheap. In fact, doesn't Gon meet his dad at a funeral, lmfao? So anticlimactic. Chimera Ant arc was one of the most boring arcs I have seen in shounen.

Apr 11, 2022 8:52 AM

#182

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57

Schwarznight said:

Agree with H x H being overrated. People say that it is like a seinen...that it is so dark and mature. BS. Gon literally gets revived and has thick plot armor. Netero Meruem fight with the nuke ending was cheap af. Gon suddenly becoming adult Gon...is cheap. In fact, doesn't Gon meet his dad at a funeral, lmfao? So anticlimactic. Chimera Ant arc was one of the most boring arcs I have seen in shounen.

Agree with everything you just said there. Dont see much people who agree with me on HxH.
But what do you think of Naruto and Bleach and so on.

Apr 11, 2022 8:56 AM

#183

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2000

ICHIGO890 said:

Schwarznight said:

Agree with H x H being overrated. People say that it is like a seinen...that it is so dark and mature. BS. Gon literally gets revived and has thick plot armor. Netero Meruem fight with the nuke ending was cheap af. Gon suddenly becoming adult Gon...is cheap. In fact, doesn't Gon meet his dad at a funeral, lmfao? So anticlimactic. Chimera Ant arc was one of the most boring arcs I have seen in shounen.

Agree with everything you just said there. Dont see much people who agree with me on HxH.
But what do you think of Naruto and Bleach and so on.

Bleach has nice art but that's it.
Naruto? Pfffff. Only kids love Naruto.

Hot Blood saves lives.

Apr 11, 2022 9:12 AM

#184

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TheMechaManiac said:

Bleach has nice art but that's it.
Naruto? Pfffff. Only kids love Naruto.

Well I know thats not ur opinion. Ur just stating what everyone else says. All u know is how to say what everyone else says without making ur own opinion.

Apr 11, 2022 9:15 AM

#185

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Jun 2021

2000

ICHIGO890 said:

TheMechaManiac said:

Bleach has nice art but that's it.
Naruto? Pfffff. Only kids love Naruto.

Well I know thats not ur opinion. Ur just stating what everyone else says. All u know is how to say what everyone else says without making ur own opinion.

>implies an adult doesn't have his own opinion
>says this to a mecha watcher
>mecha is the least popular genre on MAL
>mfw

I smell copium out of your mouth son.

Hot Blood saves lives.

Apr 11, 2022 9:18 AM

#186

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TheMechaManiac said:

>implies an adult doesn't have his own opinion
>says this to a mecha watcher
>mecha is the least popular genre on MAL
>mfw

I smell copium out of your mouth son.

Well if you are a mecha watcher why are u here. We are not speaking about Mecha as you can see.

Apr 11, 2022 9:24 AM

#187

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2000

ICHIGO890 said:

TheMechaManiac said:

>implies an adult doesn't have his own opinion
>says this to a mecha watcher
>mecha is the least popular genre on MAL
>mfw

I smell copium out of your mouth son.

Well if you are a mecha watcher why are u here. We are not speaking about Mecha as you can see.

Well this is an anime discussion website, not a shounen hugbox, innit? Non-shounen fans are allowed to voice out their disapproval and critique of battle shounen.

Hot Blood saves lives.

Apr 11, 2022 9:26 AM

#188

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Jul 2021

57

TheMechaManiac said:

Well this is an anime discussion website, not a shounen hugbox, innit? Non-shounen fans are allowed to voice out their disapproval and critique of battle shounen.

Well if u say so.
Ok so are there any shounens you approve of.

Apr 11, 2022 9:32 AM

#189

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Jun 2021

2000

ICHIGO890 said:

TheMechaManiac said:

Well this is an anime discussion website, not a shounen hugbox, innit? Non-shounen fans are allowed to voice out their disapproval and critique of battle shounen.

Well if u say so.
Ok so are there any shounens you approve of.

I approve of any shounen you love - as long as you see the flaws within them. Don't be one of those fans who just consumes blindly and succumbs to hype.

And also start branching out of the top anime list, for the love of God. Form your own taste instead of consuming what's popular.

Hot Blood saves lives.

Apr 11, 2022 9:36 AM

#190

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57

TheMechaManiac said:

I approve of any shounen you love - as long as you see the flaws within them. Don't be one of those fans who just consumes blindly and succumbs to hype.

And also start branching out of the top anime list, for the love of God. Form your own taste instead of consuming what's popular.

That is exactly what I do. Since Bleach is hated by many and people make opinions on it which I do not agree. And also I have many Unpopular Opinions of my own.
I also see quite a few flaws in Naruto and One piece but that doesnt make me like them any less.

Apr 11, 2022 9:38 AM

#191

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Jun 2021

2000

ICHIGO890 said:

TheMechaManiac said:

I approve of any shounen you love - as long as you see the flaws within them. Don't be one of those fans who just consumes blindly and succumbs to hype.

And also start branching out of the top anime list, for the love of God. Form your own taste instead of consuming what's popular.

That is exactly what I do. Since Bleach is hated by many and people make opinions on it which I do not agree. And also I have many Unpopular Opinions of my own.
I also see quite a few flaws in Naruto and One piece but that doesnt make me like them any less.

Good for you man. Back when I was younger I loved Bleach a lot. But growing up made me see it's riddled with plotholes and superpowers as a concept became boring to me. Every time it's the same in battle shounen.
But out of the big three Bleach has by far the best art - and I do mean that seriously.

Hot Blood saves lives.

Apr 11, 2022 9:42 AM

#192

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TheMechaManiac said:

Good for you man. Back when I was younger I loved Bleach a lot. But growing up made me see it's riddled with plotholes and superpowers as a concept became boring to me. Every time it's the same in battle shounen.
But out of the big three Bleach has by far the best art - and I do mean that seriously.

Ok but what is your favourite Shounen

Apr 11, 2022 9:44 AM

#193

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2000

ICHIGO890 said:

TheMechaManiac said:

Good for you man. Back when I was younger I loved Bleach a lot. But growing up made me see it's riddled with plotholes and superpowers as a concept became boring to me. Every time it's the same in battle shounen.
But out of the big three Bleach has by far the best art - and I do mean that seriously.

Ok but what is your favourite Shounen

Went through a ton of 'em, mostly the usual popular stuff. Bleach, Naruto, Death Note, Dragon Ball,the first FMA series...but in the end neither truly caught on as a "favorite".

Hot Blood saves lives.

Apr 11, 2022 9:48 AM

#194

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755

Mosesaa said:

Schwarznight said:

Williamson Murray and Mark Grimsley: “Strategy is a process, a constant adaptation to the shifting conditions and circumstances in a world where chance, uncertainty, and ambiguity dominate.”

Okay, i have read the complete article and you are using "process-focused, continuous adaptation" definition.By this definition every BS have strategic fights ,hell even Black Clover have strategic fights. It's not exclusive to Naruto. So, i don't understand what's the meaning of saying Naruto is best at strategic fights. And you are comparing 150 episodes of HxH with 700+ episodes of Naruto. Why don't you compare 200 episodes of Original Naruto with HxH and see which one is better at fights.

Anyway, leave it, there is no point in arguing further. You can not going to convince me neither can I. If you still think Naruto is better than fine.

This is my last final reply to you.

I am not the only one in thinking Naruto has better fights. Another user pointed out that Naruto AND Bleach have better fights. Bias is a dangerous thing. All battle shounen have problems. But H X H's and One Piece's fights are not on the same level. I can list multiple examples, from Bleach and Naruto, but you won't care. The fact that H X H has a boss fight fight between Meruem and Netero that ends with a cheap nuclear explosion is terrible.

Other than the Kurapika fight, what other amazing fights are there in the anime? Chrollo vs the Zoldycks? Hardly exciting.

Deidara vs Gara was better.
Slasori vs Saskura and Grandma Chiyo was better.
Jiraiya vs Pain was better.

The nen system is also pointless, because of the specialization allows all sorts of hax abilities. And the vow? Makes no sense either. You can literally get random powers for arbitrary conditions. Limitless possibilities.

Apr 11, 2022 9:51 AM

#195

Clement75

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Jan 2021

273

Nirinbo said:

EDIT: Avatar is a solid 6/10 so it wouldn't be the best battle shounen, if it were a shounen in the first place.

Still better than some trash you have as 10, lol.

TO EXCEL IS TO FAIL

Apr 11, 2022 9:55 AM

#196

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755

TheMechaManiac said:

ICHIGO890 said:

Agree with everything you just said there. Dont see much people who agree with me on HxH.
But what do you think of Naruto and Bleach and so on.

Bleach has nice art but that's it.
Naruto? Pfffff. Only kids love Naruto.

Only kids love Naruto... Great. You do know H X H and Bleach and One Piece, and, yes, even FMAB are shounen? The main audience is actually kids. The older fans tend to like these shows primarily because of nostalgia. It would be very hard for a 30-year-old to get into any of these anime. Shounen anime are hard to watch when you get older. All these anime are shounen. They all have varying degree of plot armor. You never feel as though the protagonist is in real danger.

Apr 11, 2022 10:11 AM

#197

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Jun 2021

2000

Schwarznight said:

TheMechaManiac said:

Bleach has nice art but that's it.
Naruto? Pfffff. Only kids love Naruto.

Only kids love Naruto... Great. You do know H X H and Bleach and One Piece, and, yes, even FMAB are shounen? The main audience is actually kids. The older fans tend to like these shows primarily because of nostalgia. It would be very hard for a 30-year-old to get into any of these anime. Shounen anime are hard to watch when you get older. All these anime are shounen. They all have varying degree of plot armor. You never feel as though the protagonist is in real danger.

Yeah I do know. But the poster mentioned Naruto specifically so I went with him first.

Hot Blood saves lives.

Apr 11, 2022 10:15 AM

#198

Nirinbo

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Sep 2018

4019

Clement75 said:

Nirinbo said:

EDIT: Avatar is a solid 6/10 so it wouldn't be the best battle shounen, if it were a shounen in the first place.

Still better than some trash you have as 10, lol.

Everyone's taste is different. Feel free to think that yours is superior, but keep in mind that replying this way will just make you sound like a brat.

Apr 14, 2022 5:53 PM

#199