aloricg said: Oh no I was only talking about if a woman is the victim.Red_Keys said: Rape is used as an easy "LOOK IT'S A BAD GUY! HATE THIS GUY!" neon sign for lazy and incompetent writers. That's really it. Unless he's your seme - then your girly uke boy ass better push back hard on that dick cuz you're on a train straight to giant-hand love town. If it's a guy it's either romantic or comedy. Because you know, society is misogynist. |
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DrCoppelius said: I think sexism effects both men and women in both the same ways and in different ways. I do not believe society is "misogynist" or "misandrist", we wouldn't be able to sustain ourselves if our culture literally called for the hatred of half the population.Red_Keys said: Oh no I was only talking about if a woman is the victim. If it's a guy it's either romantic or comedy. Because you know, society is misogynist. Do you think society is exclusively misandric, or do you think there's equal sexism towards women and men? Or perhaps that men are more discriminated against but women still suffer from sexism to a level? Nobody has a monopoly on victimhood. May I ask why you're asking? |
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Camzarcar said: silversaint said: except for http://myanimelist.net/character/22312/Yukio_Washimine o wait Hansel an Gretel also were sexually abused to the point of becoming insane an Revy was sexually abused by her father and.... it didnt bother me an apparently it didnt bother you either Read my original post and the earlier posts of me and others, if It's fitting, I still despise it, but I understand why It's in the story. And then you use Now and then, here and there in your OP, hypocrisy much. |
| It's fine as long as it serves to move the story along, is done in humor, serves as character motivation, or adds another facet to a character. Unless it's hentai than it's never okay, because that kind of crap is the anti-boner. |
KruszerMay 27, 2015 6:01 PM
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
DrCoppelius said: I do however, feel that pretty much any discussion about sexism/gender is primarily focused on how things effect women. Women are by far prioritized when it comes to "fixing" anything gender related, and the mere mention of men is met with accusations, hostility, belittling, and dismissal. Even though the problems being discussed are not gendered in nature and effect both parties (i.e., sexual assault).Red_Keys said: I think sexism effects both men and women in both the same ways and in different ways. Nobody has a monopoly on victimhood. May I ask why you're asking? I like understanding people's points of view regarding sexism in general because it's something that interests me and I don't like misunderstanding people, so I figured I'd just ask to clear it up. I wasn't sure if you were dismissing the idea that society had misogynistic aspects to it or you were arguing that there was also misandry and people should acknowledge the latter more. For the record, I agree with you. Which, is kind of not surprising given our respective gender roles. Women are weak victims (they need our support! Damsels in distress, all of them!), and men are dominant perpetrators (man up!). What I see a lot, is deliberately avoiding, misinterpreting, and straight up ignoring reality in favor of a story that fits the traditional gender role narrative. Like, "violence against women", the "war on women", etc, all shit about how fucking dangerous it is for a woman to even exist, yet it completely ignores the reality that violence has always, and likely will always, effect men to a much greater extent. But, you know, we can't argue against anti-violence against women. Because that's misogynistic of course. It's like theres a bear trap around the ankle of gender politics, one that everybody is utterly blind to, but trapped within all the same. Feminism is pretty much traditionalism rebranded, and everything seems to be about how we can further perpetuate attitudes of concern toward females and apathy toward males. Attitudes that have always existed and aren't anything new to the table. It's just a big circle of confirmation bias and self-fulfilling prophesies. We don't talk about male rape victims, so nobody hears about male rape victims, so there must not be any male rape victims, so then we don't talk about male rape victims. Rinse repeat. We talk about female rape victims, so everybody hears about female rape victims, so there must be more female rape victims, so we talk about female rape victims. Continue forever until the universe ends. I like to at least try to balance the conversation, and also debunk feminist SJW insanity, so I often come off sounding like an MRA, or at least heavily biased toward the male side of things. Which, well, I am a man, so obviously I'm going to be coming from that perspective. |
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This is basically what I expected of this thread. OT: Why is it always rape that crosses the line for people, but violence, death, murder, torture, mutilation and more is absolutely no problem? |
RyanEnsign said: Ask yourself what characters are usually effected by rape (in a tonally negative context).OT: Why is it always rape that crosses the line for people, but violence, death, murder, torture, mutilation and more is absolutely no problem? Then ask yourself what characters are usually effected by violence. What do these two groups usually have in common, and how does it relate to general reactions of empathy and disgust on the part of the audience? :) |
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Red_Keys said: Yeah tell me about it lol.RyanEnsign said: Ask yourself what characters are usually effected by rape (in a tonally negative context).OT: Why is it always rape that crosses the line for people, but violence, death, murder, torture, mutilation and more is absolutely no problem? Then ask yourself what characters are usually effected by violence. What do these two groups usually have in common, and how does it relate to general reactions of empathy and disgust on the part of the audience? :) |
RyanEnsign said: Because death is a consequence of living. Death is something that will always happen. In rape however, not everybody is going to experience it, all the more mentally scarring. Also, people survive rape, so bringing it up can offend actual rape victims. A dead body can't get offended.This is basically what I expected of this thread. OT: Why is it always rape that crosses the line for people, but violence, death, murder, torture, mutilation and more is absolutely no problem? |
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BlueScarf said: Death is not the same as violence.RyanEnsign said: Because death is a consequence of living. Death is something that will always happen. In rape however, not everybody is going to experience it, all the more mentally scarring. Also, people survive rape, so bringing it up can offend actual rape victims. A dead body can't get offended.This is basically what I expected of this thread. OT: Why is it always rape that crosses the line for people, but violence, death, murder, torture, mutilation and more is absolutely no problem? |
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Red_Keys said: I was only addressing the subject of death.BlueScarf said: Death is not the same as violence.Because death is a consequence of living. Death is something that will always happen. In rape however, not everybody is going to experience it, all the more mentally scarring. Also, people survive rape, so bringing it up can offend actual rape victims. A dead body can't get offended. |
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| Entertainment and fiction can't be simple escapism or an exercise in free creativity anymore. One can only operate within ever shrinking and inconsistent boundaries or risk hearing the cries of overly sensitive people. There is a discussion to be had here (such as the quality of writing on an individual basis) though trying to completely restrict artists from touching certain topics is censorship. |
| Lazy writing, period. Want to hate a character or show how bad they are... have them rape/attempt to rape someone! Want the heroine in peril! Threaten her with rape! Or rape her! Want the hero to save the day! He saves the heroine/random female from being raped by the BAD GUY. Want to give a woman a tragic backstory? Rape her! Are you writing something dark/gritty/'realistic'? Rape! Rape for everyone! Yaoi has these same tropes as well. Heroine = uke though usually. I usually stop watching when rape is treated as a plot device or shallow character development. I have yet to see an anime realistically deal with the aftermath of rape for any character, male or female. Edit: Except Berserk. Jesus that hurt. |
animeaddictanonMay 27, 2015 9:13 PM
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crystal_3001 said: Lazy writing, period. Want to hate a character or show how bad they are... have them rape/attempt to rape someone! Want the heroine in peril! Threaten her with rape! Or rape her! Want the hero to save the day! He saves the heroine/random female from being raped by the BAD GUY. Want to give a woman a tragic backstory? Rape her! Are you writing something dark/gritty/'realistic'? Rape! Rape for everyone! Yaoi has these same tropes as well. Heroine = uke though usually. I usually stop watching when rape is treated as a plot device or shallow character development. I have yet to see an anime realistically deal with the aftermath of rape for any character, male or female. Edit: Except Berserk. Jesus that hurt. Yea! Just replace "rape" in all those scenes by "threaten to kill" and you get GREAT writing! i.e. what almost every fiction has that does not contain rape and it's better because.... well it's not rape that's why! yea right... |
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crystal_3001 said: Lazy writing, period. Want to hate a character or show how bad they are... have them rape/attempt to rape someone! Want the heroine in peril! Threaten her with rape! Or rape her! Want the hero to save the day! He saves the heroine/random female from being raped by the BAD GUY. Want to give a woman a tragic backstory? Rape her! Are you writing something dark/gritty/'realistic'? Rape! Rape for everyone! Yaoi has these same tropes as well. Heroine = uke though usually. I usually stop watching when rape is treated as a plot device or shallow character development. I have yet to see an anime realistically deal with the aftermath of rape for any character, male or female. Edit: Except Berserk. Jesus that hurt. Yes, I completely agree with you, I think everyone so far has stated that Berserk is one of the only shows which it was used to facilitate character flaws in a complex dynamic, and I agree too. |
| I seriously have to laugh at all these people claiming "lazy writing" for something they dislike. No it's not lazy writing, it's lazy criticism, you can't come up with any reasoning so you resort to claiming that it is "lazy." I have yet to see one person actually give any valid reason as to how it is lazy. There's also the whole pretending that they are brilliant writers and could have done something in a completely different way, while they offer no credibility that it is true. Don't kid yourselves people I don't like it, I feel uncomfortable, It's not my thing =/= Bad, lazy, or anything of the sort. |
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KamiCity said: I seriously have to laugh at all these people claiming "lazy writing" for something they dislike. No it's not lazy writing, it's lazy criticism, you can't come up with any reasoning so you resort to claiming that it is "lazy." I have yet to see one person actually give any valid reason as to how it is lazy. There's also the whole pretending that they are brilliant writers and could have done something in a completely different way, while they offer no credibility that it is true. Don't kid yourselves people I don't like it, I feel uncomfortable, It's not my thing =/= Bad, lazy, or anything of the sort. I feel what your saying. The same thing can be applied to literally any aspect of an anime. But most anime don't really know how to effectively use rape as a plot device. |
| It's lazy because it gives an effortless excuse to make a character unlikable. When a character decides to rape someone, it's usually not even about the rape itself. It's about the audience's reaction to the act of rape. It's cheap "anger mongering". It's shameless emotional manipulation. It's a big neon sign that either says "THIS CHARACTER IS EVILLLLLL" or "THIS CHARACTER IS A VICTIMMM". What annoys me most is when it's used as a brief threatening conflict, just so another character can step in and save the day. You see this a lot in shoujo. The main character is OH NO, ABOUT TO GET RAPED!! Only to at the LAST MINUTE! be saved by the romantic interest. HE'S SUCH A MAN!! And then it's never mentioned, talked about, thought about, or referenced ever again. Kakoii!!!! Or when you need a villain, and so you just throw in that they're a rapist so that the audience has motivation to dislike them. Even if rape has jack shit to do with the story and doesn't add any form of depth to either the perpetrator or the victim. It's just, you know, THEY'RE BAD NOW! LOOK AT HOW BAD THEY ARE!! It's like killing puppies. You need the audience to dislike a character? Just have them kill a puppy. Then move on. They're EVIL now. It's lazy because it takes no skill, and is usually done with no respect for the gravity of the act itself, and it's repercussions are usually limited to the emotions of the audience. |
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Red_Keys said: It's lazy because it gives an effortless excuse to make a character unlikable. When a character decides to rape someone, it's usually not even about the rape itself. It's about the audience's reaction to the act of rape. It's cheap "anger mongering". It's shameless emotional manipulation. It's a big neon sign that either says "THIS CHARACTER IS EVILLLLLL" or "THIS CHARACTER IS A VICTIMMM". What annoys me most is when it's used as a brief threatening conflict, just so another character can step in and save the day. You see this a lot in shoujo. The main character is OH NO, ABOUT TO GET RAPED!! Only to at the LAST MINUTE! be saved by the romantic interest. HE'S SUCH A MAN!! And then it's never mentioned, talked about, thought about, or referenced ever again. Kakoii!!!! Or when you need a villain, and so you just throw in that they're a rapist so that the audience has motivation to dislike them. Even if rape has jack shit to do with the story and doesn't add any form of depth to either the perpetrator or the victim. It's just, you know, THEY'RE BAD NOW! LOOK AT HOW BAD THEY ARE!! It's like killing puppies. You need the audience to dislike a character? Just have them kill a puppy. Then move on. They're EVIL now. It's lazy because it takes no skill, and is usually done with no respect for the gravity of the act itself, and it's repercussions are usually limited to the emotions of the audience. I'm going to put this post in my first post, nicely said. |
| You finally put it in a spoiler tag ^$^ Hmm yeah I agree, I've read some manga where they put unnecessary rape, it ruins the show. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I can't seem to remember those though |
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KamSung said: You finally put it in a spoiler tag ^$^ Hmm yeah I agree, I've read some manga where they put unnecessary rape, it ruins the show. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I can't seem to remember those though Lol yes, sorry it took me so long, I'm too lazy for my own good...and thank you for sharing your opinion, I agree too :) |
| Red_Keys' post pretty much hits the nail on the head there. Unless it's within proper context. There really isn't a need to have a female character raped, abused to a crazy extent and/or humiliated, Mirai Nikki is actually a perfect example of this since we have three female characters who suffer from all three. The blind girl in that crazy rape cult, The couple, as you have pointed out and Yuno herself |
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| There is a digusting rape scene in kara no kyoukai 3 but there is also a forced, male, gay kiss in kara no kyoukai 7 so it sorta balances to an extent |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Red_Keys said: Any evil action will do, it's not rape. Evil actions make evil characters.It's lazy because it gives an effortless excuse to make a character unlikable. When a character decides to rape someone, it's usually not even about the rape itself. It's about the audience's reaction to the act of rape. It's cheap "anger mongering". It's shameless emotional manipulation. It's a big neon sign that either says "THIS CHARACTER IS EVILLLLLL" or "THIS CHARACTER IS A VICTIMMM". Most of the time there is context behind the characters choice, whether it's psychological, emotional, or some other reason. Very rarely is a character just trying to cause an emotional response. Unless it's something like random character A on the street, even then though it's usually used for some sort of character development for the victim. Either way what you stated doesn't make sense, replace rape with literally any evil action and you get the same outcome. Character A killed all of character B's family. Ahhh CHARACTER A IS EVILLLLL, CHARACTER B IS A VICTIMMMMM" Character A was racist, character A caused a genocide, character A burned down an entire village *Insert any evil action here* Nothing stated here proves it's lazy. It just proves that people have emotional reactions. What annoys me most is when it's used as a brief threatening conflict, just so another character can step in and save the day. You see this a lot in shoujo. The main character is OH NO, ABOUT TO GET RAPED!! Only to at the LAST MINUTE! be saved by the romantic interest. HE'S SUCH A MAN!! And then it's never mentioned, talked about, thought about, or referenced ever again. Kakoii!!!! Ever heard of "Misattribution of arousal" sometimes called the suspension bridge effect? It's not just rape, any psychologically traumatic event will cause this. Fear and fast heart beat, then someone helping you will be misinterpreted as romantic feelings. Character A is falling off a building, character B swoops in and rescues character A now character A has fallen for character B Character B jumps in front of a bullet for character A, same effect. Character A *insert traumatic event*, Character B *insert some sort of interaction while character A is in traumatic event* same reaction. Once again, doesn't show how it is lazy. Or when you need a villain, and so you just throw in that they're a rapist so that the audience has motivation to dislike them. Even if rape has jack shit to do with the story and doesn't add any form of depth to either the perpetrator or the victim. It's just, you know, THEY'RE BAD NOW! LOOK AT HOW BAD THEY ARE!! Throw in a murderer, arsonist, ect different crime same result. Your own puppy example disproves you. Guess what evil characters commit evil actions, you can't write a villain that spends the entire story planting flowers and going to church without ever doing anything bad. He wouldn't be a villain, he'd be a background character. Do I need to repeat myself? It's lazy because it takes no skill, and is usually done with no respect for the gravity of the act itself, and it's repercussions are usually limited to the emotions of the audience. Here's the thing, you didn't prove it was lazy or required no skill. You just proved that people have emotions and react to them. That is all you were able to accomplish. Also isn't all writing meant to stir emotions? These are narratives not documentaries, of course they aren't going to go in depth into the gravity of the act itself. We already know the gravity of the act, it wouldn't get an emotional response if we didn't. Like I stated earlier: I don't like the action =/= lazy writing. Sure some writers pull it off better than others, but the act of using a certain "evil action" does not mean it's unskilled or lazy. Objurgo said: Red_Keys' post pretty much hits the nail on the head there. Unless it's within proper context. Well of course it needs to be within proper context. Same can be said for all aspects of writing though, not just the use of Rape. If that wasn't the than we wouldn't have a narrative and instead just a series of random events. It needs to be tied together to the story in order for it to work. I'll have to ask both of you to understand what I'm saying. I'm arguing against the people who state "rape = lazy writing." That's not the case. The reality is: (badly written rape = bad use of that action.) If you want to make the argument that rape = lazy writing then you must agree to at least one of these 2 things A) All evil actions = lazy writing (since as shown above, any evil action will give you the same reaction) or B) Anything I dislike = Lazy writing If you disagree with both of these statements then it means that rape used in a narrative is not lazy writing, it's just that some writers suck at using that evil action well. well those are my 2 cents, or however the saying goes, just wanted to put my opinion on the matter. |
KamiCityMay 30, 2015 5:43 AM
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| I agree with what you're saying. I simply tried to say in my post regarding the anime, Mirai nikki. That sexual assault feels too much like the writers taking shortcuts to write 'evil characters'. It's a lot more challenging to write up reasons and motivations for a character being evil, rather than just throwing in a scene were they are a sexual predator. For example, the final in the second arc of SAO. The bad guys actions are both fueled by his want for power, and his obsession with Asuna. "Why does he want power? I guess just because." "Why is he obsessed with Asuna? Don't know, he's evil so just make him lick and feel her up whilst having Kirito react to it" The whole scene was pretty unnecessary and made you feel more awkward rather than feel spite for the character. Where as in Black lagoon, we get a gradual drip-feed of Levi's past, small flash-backs from scenes of her abusive childhood, how it drives her to use it as an excuse to act in the manner that she does, and it's up to us the viewer, to decide whether or not we agree with her or Rock, if her actions are justified by said past. Or the arc with Hansel and Grettle, why were they crazy? Was their actions justified? Should we feel sorry for them? Children forced into doing snuff films till they lose all matter of sanity and come to enjoy the torture and torturing, call it a desperate grab at making the viewer feel sentimental just because they're children, but I feel that it all played out in a satisfying way, and making you actually feel something as the arc comes to a grim end. I can write more about Black lagoon than SAO because Black Lagoon gives me more to talk and think about in terms of the characters and story. I heard somewhere that a good character is one that you can describe and identify just by describing their personality and not by what they look like, this should be the same for both protagonists and antagonists. Describe Hansel and Grettle. Sadistic, childish and playful, personality disorder etc etc. Now describe both badguys in SAO1.. The first one was a programmer.... The second one was crazy, kidnapped Asuna.. The point is, the evil dudes have to have just as much, if not more personality than the protagonist, just look at batman's villains. It feels forced when you just throw in a scene with the bad guy forcing himself on the heroin and it just makes people feel uncomfortable rather than spiteful :P |
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| You're missing the point. Yes, creating one-dimensional, hatable, pure evil characters is lazy writing. Human beings are not cardboard cutouts. It doesn't matter what they do to be evil, whether it be rape or killing puppies. You keep mentioning context, but it's clear the context of my post has escaped you. I'm talking about rape specifically, because that is what this topic is about. If your character has the emotional complexity of a WWII anti-hitler propaganda poster, you are an untalented, lazy writer. |
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Red_Keys said: You're missing the point. Yes, creating one-dimensional, hatable, pure evil characters is lazy writing. Human beings are not cardboard cutouts. It doesn't matter what they do to be evil, whether it be rape or killing puppies. You keep mentioning context, but it's clear the context of my post has escaped you. I'm talking about rape specifically, because that is what this topic is about. If your character has the emotional complexity of a WWII anti-hitler propaganda poster, you are an untalented, lazy writer. But that wasn't the argument though. As you have stated yourself now Rape =/= Lazy writing. You basically agreed with what I was trying to say. I made my initial statement against people who were saying things like: crystal_3001 said: Lazy writing, period. Want to hate a character or show how bad they are... have them rape/attempt to rape someone! Want the heroine in peril! Threaten her with rape! Or rape her! Want the hero to save the day! He saves the heroine/random female from being raped by the BAD GUY. Want to give a woman a tragic backstory? Rape her! Are you writing something dark/gritty/'realistic'? Rape! Rape for everyone! Camzarcar said: Yes, true, It's 2015 though, It's disgusting and debases the character of all their dignity, it makes all their other traits seem less important than the act itself. Very, and I mean this, VERY RARELY is rape used just for the sake of rape. In most cases that it is used, there are reasons beyond just trying to stir people's emotions. Which is why I said that saying it is lazy writing, is nothing more than lazy criticism. If the meaning behind the action isn't completely spelled out for them, they refuse to analyse the work and rather just call it lazy and name the writer incompetent. Objurgo said: I haven't watched most of those series, or I haven't caught up to them at least but I understand what you are trying to say. It's not that i'm justifying every rape scene or violence scene in every show. No, some are just plain horrible. My issue though, is against critics who automatically go for the "oh it's lazy writing" without doing proper analysis. Sure if you look at things superficially then you will only get a superficial understanding. People mentions the rape scene at the beginning of Kara no Kyoukai movie 3. I don't know how that can be considered lazy writing though, name of the movie is "a lingering sense of pain", and that scene sets up the events that occur later. People mentined FSN, in all fairness UBW's violence and sexual assault is rather tame, yet it's not there without reason as most people try to state. It isn't there just to make shinji unlikeable, it is there to showcase shinji's inferiority complex which gets expanded on even more in Heaven's Feel. It's a theme about the character that has been shown the entire show. Even then, the "victim" instead of being scared for herself, is telling him he needs to run and get out before he gets killed. She continues to view the character as mistaken and harmless, while she continues to remain strong willed and determined. Sure, FSN suffers from the 3 different routes flaw, in which characters get further expanded on in different routes and sometimes you need all 3 routes to fully understand a character. Still though to call it lazy writing just shows the critics inability or unwillingness to analyze the work. |
KamiCityMay 30, 2015 10:54 AM
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KamiCity said: Rape in the context of this thread.But that wasn't the argument though. As you have stated yourself now Rape =/= Lazy writing. You basically agreed with what I was trying to say. OP is talking specifically about a certain situation in which rape is used as an "easy way out" in order to avoid putting effort into writing compelling characters or drama, or otherwise seemingly "thrown in". Obviously not all instances of rape depicted in anime are going to be the cheap gimmick we're describing. But those "legitimate" situations are not what this thread is about. |
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| Rape isn't lazy writing. Rape is a powerful subject and some writers just can't handle it correctly. Undermining rape because of its poor use in a medium dominated by tween boys is in poor judgement. |
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| All I can say is if you don't like the genre, just simply don't watch it. |
Red_Keys said: KamiCity said: Rape in the context of this thread.But that wasn't the argument though. As you have stated yourself now Rape =/= Lazy writing. You basically agreed with what I was trying to say. OP is talking specifically about a certain situation in which rape is used as an "easy way out" in order to avoid putting effort into writing compelling characters or drama, or otherwise seemingly "thrown in". Obviously not all instances of rape depicted in anime are going to be the cheap gimmick we're describing. But those "legitimate" situations are not what this thread is about. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Just because a few bad writers couldn't do it properly, doesn't mean it's used as an easy way out to avoid putting effort into writing compelling characters or drama. I haven't watched half the series he listed, but even if it were the case that all these series do it wrong (I doubt it, he even put berserk in the list), i'm very sure the content in the majority of those works he listed are completely different from one another. The only way we could really judge them is by a case by case bases. The fact that he/she tried to lump them all together, just shows that the issue the OP has is simply with "rape depicted in a medium" his/her later statement about it being 2015 already, further elaborate on that. In which the op states that they shouldn't depict it anymore. |
KamiCityMay 30, 2015 11:10 AM
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| I won't speak for OP, but I think he was speaking more along the lines of it being treated with more respect and only if actually necessary or relevant, not erased entirely. |
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Red_Keys said: 'I won't speak for OP, but I think he was speaking more along the lines of it being treated with more respect and only if actually necessary or relevant, not erased entirely. Maybe so, but the way I interpreted it was the complete opposite. Especially with the amount of series that were named and how vastly different the depictions of the actions were. It made it seem like it was more about the act, than about respecting the act. Censorship is something i'm completely against. If the OP meant that there are some writers who are just horrible at it, and should learn to respect it more, then I could somewhat agree with it. |
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KamiCity said: Red_Keys said: Rape in the context of this thread. OP is talking specifically about a certain situation in which rape is used as an "easy way out" in order to avoid putting effort into writing compelling characters or drama, or otherwise seemingly "thrown in". Obviously not all instances of rape depicted in anime are going to be the cheap gimmick we're describing. But those "legitimate" situations are not what this thread is about. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Just because a few bad writers couldn't do it properly, doesn't mean it's used as an easy way out to avoid putting effort into writing compelling characters or drama. I haven't watched half the series he listed, but even if it were the case that all these series do it wrong (I doubt it, he even put berserk in the list), i'm very sure the content in the majority of those works he listed are completely different from one another. The only way we could really judge them is by a case by case bases. The fact that he/she tried to lump them all together, just shows that the issue the OP has is simply with "rape depicted in a medium" his/her later statement about it being 2015 already, further elaborate on that. In which the op states that they shouldn't depict it anymore. The list is to show the amount of rape/extreme degradation that occurs in anime. Out of everything in the list, It's been agreed through the thread that Berserk is one of the rare examples where It's been implemented correctly. I may edit the first post to include other examples of where other people feel as if It's been implemented correctly too, as I think if I do that then it could provide further discussion on the matter. The main thing with the characters of Berserk, is that the rape was used to signify the complex dynamic between the two male characters, the direct victim was almost entirely null. The unique scenario here is that the perpetrator and the direct victim were equally as important to creating a reaction from the viewer, as well as new facets for all three of the characters. Contrast this to Mirai Nikki where three girls don't like her, so they get 5 guys to rape her. And the aftermath of the situation displays how much her boyfriend cares for her. The perpetrators are almost completely ignored. No new facets of the characters are explored, since the viewer already knew that they cared deeply for each other. What we do get out of it however, is sympathy, for both characters. The main difference between the two shows is that one is exploration of the characters, while the other is purely rape; an act which we all detest. To constructively use rape; people have suggested that the writers handle it with care, and for a deep purpose, not only for the viewer, but for the characters. If you can develop a character without the use of rape/sexual assault, and can explore the facets you want to put on display, then the general consensus of this thread is that it would be preferred. The main question people should ask themselves, is would they rather see a generic rape/sexual assault take place, or another more unique scenario, which would fit in just as much as rape/sexual assault? |
KamiCity said: Red_Keys said: 'I won't speak for OP, but I think he was speaking more along the lines of it being treated with more respect and only if actually necessary or relevant, not erased entirely. Maybe so, but the way I interpreted it was the complete opposite. Especially with the amount of series that were named and how vastly different the depictions of the actions were. It made it seem like it was more about the act, than about respecting the act. Censorship is something i'm completely against. If the OP meant that there are some writers who are just horrible at it, and should learn to respect it more, then I could somewhat agree with it. Yes, that is what I meant. |
| Rape isn't bad. How can it be bad if it turns you on? Duhhhh. |
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| Rape is a necessary function for survival, especially in this day and age of gay marriage. |
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DrCoppelius said: Is this really something exclusive to anime? And also, is generalizing the rape that comes from all the anime listed in OP (aside from Berserk) as springing from one reason, and one exclusively, correct? It seems to me this thread would be more productive if it discussed specific instances and why they are wrong/right instead of making such wide generalizations and even claiming that rape is solely used for the purpose of characterization, which I would argue it's not in several cases. Speaking of examples, I must correct things. In Midori, young girl didn't get raped and in Now and then, here and there matter of rape is treated better than Berserk. It is a show inspired by real genocide, what does OP expect, rainbow and bubbles? |
Nicoreos said: why not land of freedom?hey guys lets move the anime industry to the united cuckdom |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
DrCoppelius said: Camzarcar said: The list is to show the amount of rape/extreme degradation that occurs in anime. Out of everything in the list, It's been agreed through the thread that Berserk is one of the rare examples where It's been implemented correctly. I may edit the first post to include other examples of where other people feel as if It's been implemented correctly too, as I think if I do that then it could provide further discussion on the matter. The main thing with the characters of Berserk, is that the rape was used to signify the complex dynamic between the two male characters, the direct victim was almost entirely null. The unique scenario here is that the perpetrator and the direct victim were equally as important to creating a reaction from the viewer, as well as new facets for all three of the characters. Contrast this to Mirai Nikki where three girls don't like her, so they get 5 guys to rape her. And the aftermath of the situation displays how much her boyfriend cares for her. The perpetrators are almost completely ignored. No new facets of the characters are explored, since the viewer already knew that they cared deeply for each other. What we do get out of it however, is sympathy, for both characters. The main difference between the two shows is that one is exploration of the characters, while the other is purely rape; an act which we all detest. To constructively use rape; people have suggested that the writers handle it with care, and for a deep purpose, not only for the viewer, but for the characters. If you can develop a character without the use of rape/sexual assault, and can explore the facets you want to put on display, then the general consensus of this thread is that it would be preferred. Is this really something exclusive to anime? And also, is generalizing the rape that comes from all the anime listed in OP (aside from Berserk) as springing from one reason, and one exclusively, correct? It seems to me this thread would be more productive if it discussed specific instances and why they are wrong/right instead of making such wide generalizations and even claiming that rape is solely used for the purpose of characterization, which I would argue it's not in several cases. As I said previously, I'll update the first post to reflect this. |
Inferno_Cop said: DrCoppelius said: Is this really something exclusive to anime? And also, is generalizing the rape that comes from all the anime listed in OP (aside from Berserk) as springing from one reason, and one exclusively, correct? It seems to me this thread would be more productive if it discussed specific instances and why they are wrong/right instead of making such wide generalizations and even claiming that rape is solely used for the purpose of characterization, which I would argue it's not in several cases. Speaking of examples, I must correct things. In Midori, young girl didn't get raped and in Now and then, here and there matter of rape is treated better than Berserk. It is a show inspired by real genocide, what does OP expect, rainbow and bubbles? Yes, I believe the events in Now and then, here and there were understandable. Thanks for your opinion, I'll update the first post to reflect this. And I know that the world isn't rainbow and bubbles. Also, you're probably thinking of Midori days, this Midori was done by one man, and is a very old film. |
CamzarcarMay 30, 2015 11:12 PM
Nicoreos said: hey guys lets move the anime industry to the united cuckdom Your post doesn't add anything, please read page 4 and 5 to get a comprehensive summary of the main points that have been established. |
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