Men must prove a woman said Yes under tough new rape rules

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Then drunk drivers should not be accountable for driving because they are impaired, as I said, your logic does not work.

I've already explained you why the fake analogy fallacy is worthless. Someone who is drunk and can still drive is not THAT drunk. Btw, an analogy is not enough to prove your point, at most it's an example, but you cannot prove your point simply with an analogy. Someone who is almost passed out can't consent. Look, I'll repeat it - It's about body language. If someone says no, it can mean yes, if someone says yes, it can mean no, if someone says maybe, it can mean yes or no... You have to look for body language - If someone says a tiny "yes" but shows no physical signs of wanting to have sex with you and doesn't reciprocate your kisses, hugs, etc, do you think this is consented? If you do, you need to rethink because you're giving a free pass for anything to be consent. It's almost like the old joke that "if she didn't say no, it's not rape"

Jan 30, 2015 3:11 PM

#154

Red_Keys

Offline

Sep 2012

19236

Comic_Sans said:
Okay, so what about the other way around?

Denying a woman sex is sexual abuse.

So if you have sex with her you're a sex offender. If you don't have sex with her you're a sex offender.

Sexual violence
Examples of sexual violence include: discounting the partner's feelings regarding sex; criticizing the partner sexually; touching the partner sexually in inappropriate and uncomfortable ways; withholding sex and affection; always demanding sex; forcing partner to strip as a form of humiliation (maybe in front of children), to witness sexual acts, to participate in uncomfortable sex or sex after an episode of violence, to have sex with other people; and using objects and/or weapons to hurt during sex or threats to back up demands for sex.

Jan 30, 2015 3:12 PM

#155

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

Someone who is drunk and can still drive is not THAT drunk.

That still doesn't work dude, sorry. Otherwise there is no moment when someone who is drunk can be raped if they give consent.

criticizing the partner sexually;

"Dang, girl, you suck at giving bjs."

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 3:15 PM

#156

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Immahnoob answer my question. I mean really - If someone says "yes" but doesn't reciprocate kisses, hugs, etc, and shows no sign of wanting it, do you think this is consent?

- (Now I can sue my girlfriend for not giving me sex)

Jan 30, 2015 3:18 PM

#157

Spooks

Offline

Aug 2013

15696

I wonder how many times the word rape has been said in the thread now.

i initiated this....I'm a word rapist.

Jan 30, 2015 3:19 PM

#158

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

Guy: "You want sex?"
Girl: "Yes." *goes limp*

Girl: "You raped me."
Guy: "What."

I don't know who's jumping the gun now, but it's surely not me.

Spooks_McBones said:
I wonder how many times the word rape has been said in the thread now.

i initiated this....I'm a word rapist.

It is a thread about "rape" after all.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 3:25 PM

#159

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Spooks_McBones said:
I wonder how many times the word rape has been said in the thread now.

i initiated this....I'm a word rapist.

I've already linked you two times a link proving the daily mail was wrong. Go check it out.

You can't trust media like the daily mail, they literally sensationalize anything in the name of profit. I remember a few months ago the daily mail issued a report saying smoking was going to be illegal in the UK for people born after 2000. After research I figured it was just a proposal but it wasn't actually accepted as a valid law. That's the daily mail

Guy: "You want sex?"
Girl: "Yes." *goes limp*

Girl: "You raped me."
Guy: "What."

If you have a thing for inanimate people that's your business. But it's still rape if the person is not consenting. You don't need to be too smart to realize someone who is not responding physically may not be consenting. And a maybe is enough to withdrawal sexual action. If you don't think so, then learn to control your urges. Men can control sexual desires and saying men are rapists and can't help themselves is insulting.

Jan 30, 2015 3:28 PM

#160

Spooks

Offline

Aug 2013

15696

Blackout0219 said:

Spooks_McBones said:
I wonder how many times the word rape has been said in the thread now.

i initiated this....I'm a word rapist.

I've already linked you two times a link proving the daily mail was wrong. Go check it out.

How did you get that from what I said.

Are you in the zone right now, the noob zone. are you blinded by semantics and debate. how many rapefingers am i holdrapeing up right norape?

Jan 30, 2015 3:30 PM

#161

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Spooks_McBones said:

Blackout0219 said:

I've already linked you two times a link proving the daily mail was wrong. Go check it out.

How did you get that from what I said.

Are you in the zone right now, the noob zone. are you blinded by semantics and debate. how many rapefingers am i holdrapeing up right norape?

I don't wanna know what you have been smoking.

Jan 30, 2015 3:30 PM

#162

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

But it's still rape if the person is not consenting. You don't need to be too smart to realize someone who is not responding physically may not be consenting.

"I'm out of ideas." - Blackout0219

Or should I say...

You're having your 220th blackout?

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 3:36 PM

#163

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Immahnoob said:

But it's still rape if the person is not consenting. You don't need to be too smart to realize someone who is not responding physically may not be consenting.

"I'm out of ideas." - Blackout0219

Or should I say...

You're having your 220th blackout?

Making fun of me is not an argument. You still didn't respond accurately to what is consent or not. I really don't care if you think someone who is intoxicated shouldn't be able to be raped even if they have no physical response. I don't really take our discussions seriously. This is the internet after all - And on a an anime forum it gets worse.

Jan 30, 2015 3:38 PM

#164

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

You do know I'm not answering because your example is retarded, right?

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 3:41 PM

#165

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Immahnoob said:
You do know I'm not answering because your example is retarded, right?

You know I'm not going to take seriously someone who victim-blames people who are raped, right? Specially when you bring anedoctal claims with conservative websites to back it up. I've had my fair share of time arguing with conservatives who point out conservative channels and sites like AnswersInGenesis

Jan 30, 2015 3:42 PM

#166

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

Guilty by association, again. That doesn't help your case.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 3:47 PM

#167

Offline

Jul 2014

226

My only case was that we shouldn't blame rape victims for crimes committed against them, just like we don't blame murder victims or torture victims or robbery victims.

I also don't understand what the problem is with fake rape accusations and drunk rapes given that false accusations account for as much as false accusations for other crimes. You are all worried about drunk rape and how it is evil, but the truth is the majority of sexual assault is not even reported, even legit cases (Before you ask for sources - Check out RAINN). You are literally misinterpreting the whole problem around college rapes. But it really doesn't impact me - I'm not American, college campuses are not a thing where I live, so luckily there's not many cases of college rape. You can really think what you want - You know what's best to solve the problem in your country

Jan 30, 2015 3:48 PM

#168

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

My only case was that we shouldn't blame rape victims for crimes committed against them, just like we don't blame murder victims or torture victims or robbery victims.

But they're not rape victims.

You are literally misinterpreting the whole problem around college rapes.

Yeah, because the 1 in 5 women get raped at college sure is feasible.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 3:52 PM

#169

Offline

Jul 2014

226

- They are if they didn't consent. I told you from the beginning drunk sex can be consented. It can. And regretting is not really valid. I only said it's not consented if you are passed out or so intoxicated that you are barely conscious. If you think a person in such a state can consent, then you need to revise the semantics of consent and awareness. You can't consent if you are not minimally aware

- I don't care if that statistic is true or not, that's a problem for America. But it depends on the definition of sexual assault. Sweden for example has 1/4 sexual assault BUT the definition is broad and account for situations like groping, non solicited boobs/ass/body grabbing or sexual touches and catcalling. So obviously there's not 1/4 women being raped. ON that I agree with you

Jan 30, 2015 3:52 PM

#170

Comic_Sans

Offline

Mar 2014

21290

Red_Keys said:

Comic_Sans said:
Okay, so what about the other way around?

Denying a woman sex is sexual abuse.

So if you have sex with her you're a sex offender. If you don't have sex with her you're a sex offender.

Such a dilemma

Nico- said:
@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite

Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained

Jan 30, 2015 3:54 PM

#171

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

I only said it's not consented if you are passed out or so intoxicated that you are barely conscious

So you're talking about an incredibly low number of cases.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 3:57 PM

#172

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Immahnoob said:

I only said it's not consented if you are passed out or so intoxicated that you are barely conscious

So you're talking about an incredibly low number of cases.

It depends on the city, country, etc, it may be or may not be low. In the place where I live it is too common for young people to drink until they completely pass out (this is a health problem for us) and the drinking age is 16. But yeah, sometimes it may be lower. I didn't say 1/5 women got raped in college. I didn't say it wasn't an overreaction. I doubt as much as 1/4 women get raped in america, it's unlikely. If we're talking about sexual assault on a broad scale then it's possibe - But even so that means every woman I know has been sexually assaulted, everyone gets a boob grab from an asshat, an ass slap from a stranger, a scene of street harassment. If we include that we could say every woman is raped

Jan 30, 2015 4:06 PM

#173

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

So here we are, nothing else to argue considering the links I gave you.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 4:15 PM

#174

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Immahnoob said:
So here we are, nothing else to argue considering the links I gave you.

It's funny I linked you a study about repeated (2 or 3 times, sometimes more) rapists who use alcohol as a form of making the victim vulnerable, rape them and you still don't see how drunk rape can be an issue.

I was never arguing on statistics to begin with, I was arguing that being drunk isn't an excuse for rape if the person isn't consenting or isn't mentally capable of consenting. If you have sex with someone who's passed out it's rape, sorry bro. Other than that I didn't actually say consensual drunk sex shouldn't be allowed, so I don't see your problem. Don't you think consent is important to prevent situations like "she didn't say no, therefore it's not rape" or "she didn't fight back, therefore it isnt' rape"?

Btw, even it 61.5 cases were fake, it still accounts for almost 40% of legit drunk rapes, so in my opinion you can't say that the vast majority of cases are fake - at Most you can say that 2/3 are.

Jan 30, 2015 4:26 PM

#175

Lugoj

Offline

Feb 2013

163

This will all be reversed when Sharia is instituted in Londonistan, though.

Jan 30, 2015 4:37 PM

#176

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

And it's funny my links disproved them.

I was never arguing on statistics to begin with, I was arguing that being drunk isn't an excuse for rape if the person isn't consenting or isn't mentally capable of consenting.

And I argued those are irrelevant cases because of how little of them are.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 4:48 PM

#177

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Yeah you disproved them with a link from a conservative channel . It's also a shame that studies like this or this disprove your theory that most rape cases of college are fake. In fact the first puts false rape allegations between 2-10%, which is a minority compared to other prosecutions.

BTW something important - Absence of evidence for a crime is not evidence that it's a false allegation. False allegation is when you disprove that it didn't happen. if you simply press charges but there's not enough evidence, you can't prosecute anyone - But it's not a false accusation; false accusation is when you prove that the claim was false and that it never happened (witnesses, etc.). But of course you must know this because you are probably reading the studies I linked you

Now I'm waiting for you to keep picking your brain while you search for another conservative website, since it's the only source that supports ridiculous claims like the ones that you've. There's literally no institute on earth that would support that claim like conservatives do; or maybe you can try an MRA website, they are pretty good at labelling all rape accusations as fake

BlakidoJan 30, 2015 4:56 PM

Jan 30, 2015 4:57 PM

#178

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

Yeah you disproved them with a link from a conservative channel .

Guilt by association.

It's also a shame that studies like this or this disprove your theory that most rape cases of college are fake.

Strawman, I said most drunk rape cases are fake.

Also:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vvcs02.pdf

Oh, and I don't really care about the difference between "unfounded" and "false", I've put them together.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 5:10 PM

#179

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Immahnoob said:

Yeah you disproved them with a link from a conservative channel .

Guilt by association.

It's also a shame that studies like this or this disprove your theory that most rape cases of college are fake.

So what? That's a study about violence in college until 2002, it's about many crimes, it's not relevant to the topic of sexual assault.

- I don't really care if you put them together since you're not a legal expert to determine what is fake accusation or not. It is a fact that most accusations are not false. You can be raped, press charges and not have enough evidence - That doesnt' mean it's false - You're not exactly an expert here to determine what should be deemed as fake accusations.

On the other hand, this study disagrees with you that drunk rape can't be a problem. Do you have any other source for your allegation that most rape by intoxication is bullshit other than a conservative website? Probably not, because as I've already said, your allegation has as much proof as creationism, biased sources with biased methods to impose an ideologically corrupt agenda

Debunking your videos:
- One of them about the CDC study is about rape accusations in general and widespread of sexual violence - It doesn't address specifically drunk rape cases or intoxication, it only says that it's not truth one in five women will be raped. However it doesn't prove anything it doesn't even talk about drunk cases
- The other study only disproves that date rape drink spicing is a myth and I agree with it - It's true that spiking drinks is not as prevalent as people say; however the video has literally no sources that prove the majority of rape cases while the victim is drunk are not really true, it only says that "date rape drugs weren't used often" - But it doesn't prove that most cases are false accusations.

Dude do you check your sources before sending them ? Dude, your videos literally show zero proof that most rape while drunk is false or made up, if you check the videos or even the studies sourced it only proves most rapes don't happen with date drugs as much as people think, but it never mentions how much percentage of drunk rape cases are valid. So again, do you have any sources that prove most rapes while intoxicated are false claims?

BlakidoJan 30, 2015 5:30 PM

Jan 30, 2015 5:35 PM

#180

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

So what? That's a study about violence in college until 2002, it's about many crimes, it's not relevant to the topic of sexual assault.

It has it's own section.

- I don't really care if you put them together since you're not a legal expert to determine what is fake accusation or not. It is a fact that most accusations are not false.

Oh, so you'll make this a semantics argument? That's nice. Nobody cares.

- The other study only disproves that date rape drink spicing is a myth and I agree with it - It's true that spiking drinks is not as prevalent as people say; however the video has literally no sources that prove the majority of rape cases while the victim is drunk are not really true, it only says that "date rape drugs weren't used often" - But it doesn't prove that most cases are false accusations.

"“When you were drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent, how many people ever had vaginal sex with you?” A majority of the 1.3 million women (61.5 percent) the CDC projected as rape victims in 2010 experienced this sort of “alcohol or drug facilitated penetration.”"
It also talks about alcohol, actually, the other video talks about alcohol too, so you're wrong there.

On the other hand, this study disagrees with you that drunk rape can't be a problem.

What does that study say? I don't see how the consumption of alcohol on the perpetrators side is of any relevance to the consent of the "victim".
Also, they don't talk about the cases which you mentioned, AKA 0.3-0.4 BAC for the "victims".
Having consumed alcohol is irrelevant, it will not impair your judgement at lower than 0.3 for you to be able to say consent is not possible.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 5:41 PM

#181

Offline

Jul 2014

226

It talks about alcohol and date drugs but it never says "most drunk rape accusations are false and here's the source". There's literally zero sources on both videos that prove most rape cases when the victim is drunk are false. So present evidence or GTFO.

Also I never said the CDC study was accurate, I never quoted the CDC since we started to argue, you're the one who brought it up - I never mentioned that 1/5 women were raped.

Where's the proof that most rape while drunk is false again?

Jan 30, 2015 5:44 PM

#182

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

Listen to their voices, m8. They talk about sources. Maybe you didn't actually listen to those videos?

Where's the proof that most rape while drunk is false again?

In the videos. Even if you didn't talk about the CDC that does not mean that I can't. That's one of the newest studies and one that were mentioned during politics recently.

And I already quoted that part 20 times already, most women think that being inebriated is the fault of drugs while that is not true, they also speak about how most think that they were raped because their "judgement was impaired by alcohol". 61.5%, that's quite a lot of cognitive bias.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 5:46 PM

#183

Offline

Jul 2014

226

They source studies that prove little date rape drugs were used. But they listed zero sources that prove specifically most rape accusations when drunk are false. THere's literally zero voices for that. But if there are, at what minute and second do they say that? Since youre right, you have no problem indicating me

Jan 30, 2015 5:54 PM

#184

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

Immahnoob said:
“When you were drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent, how many people ever had vaginal sex with you?” A majority of the 1.3 million women (61.5 percent) the CDC projected as rape victims in 2010 experienced this sort of “alcohol or drug facilitated penetration.”"

Also, they're 5 minutes long videos, they're not 50 pages studies where you'd have to show the relevant parts.
Every part is relevant.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 6:00 PM

#185

Offline

Jul 2014

226

That only proves that 61.5 of women who responded claim they had sex while drunk, high, drugged or passed out and unable to consent. It doesn't prove (1) That they pressed charges (2) It doesn't determine the number of fake accusations while drunk

I think you're confusing here, that's a CDC projection of rape victims, it's not a projection of false rape accusations - Therefore you can't use that as proof that drunk rape is fake. On the other hand, if the CDC is not reliable, why the hell are you using that as a source? Where's the proof specifically that most drunk rape cases are false accusations? I am still waiting. I need reliable studies mate. Something like "Evidence that drunk rape is mostly false"

Jan 30, 2015 6:04 PM

#186

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

It doesn't prove (1) That they pressed charges (2) It doesn't determine the number of fake accusations while drunk

That's the funny part, I never said that they did press charges, and accusing someone of rape doesn't have to be direct either. You do know they can be informal, right?

Therefore you can't use that as proof that drunk rape is fake.

Your conclusion and this statement don't fit together.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 6:09 PM

#187

Offline

Jul 2014

226

but informal proof is really hard to gather mate. If it's not direct and is not prosecuted why the fuck are you arguing about it? That kind of data is impossible to gather and anyone, literally anyone can wake up and say "that person raped me", it's hard to account for all the gossip on social circles. Gossip is not really proof here that someone falsely accused of rape while drunk. No one cares about gossip, people care about statistics that show facts. You have shown zero statistics that in fact most drunk rape cases are not really rape, so you have no credibility.

You are saying most accusations of rape while drunk are fake, so prove me that indeed most drunk rape cases of intoxication are bullshit. I'm not even saying you are a liar, I'm giving you the chance to prove. Show me studies that back up. I'm pretty sure most women don't really believe it's always rape when they're drunk anyway. In fact, one problem with sex assault in college is that both the victim and the perpetrator many times don't know that what they did was really rape because they believe in rape myths. I want to see proof. Come on. I'm waiting.

Jan 30, 2015 6:14 PM

#188

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

It's not my problem you are willfully ignorant, I gave you enough proof already through the videos and the links.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 6:19 PM

#189

Offline

Jul 2014

226

Still didn't prove your initial claim that "most drunk rape cases are bullshit". So yeah, keep telling yourself that. I'm not gonna reply to you any further until you present statistics that prove your point. When you do, if you are right, I'll admit I'm wrong. Also, if you're certainly so objectively right and if it's so logical your claim is true, there's certainly more evidence than one or two youtube videos. Usually there's a lot of evidence on the internet for well known facts. For example evolution has thousands of studies and explanations online. It's funny I can't find anything on google that corroborates your claim

Jan 30, 2015 6:25 PM

#190

Offline

Apr 2012

19564

Some subjects are understudied, and just because you don't want to accept the evidence because of your own bias (hurr, conservationists) that does not make it false either.

Play League of Legends here!

My interview on MAL.

~ AFTER THE LOCK ~

Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.

Jan 30, 2015 6:55 PM

#191

Lugoj

Offline

Feb 2013

163

I don't know if most drunk rape cases are bullshit (they probably are) but I remember the Finnish police making statements a few years ago about the topic. I don't have the article at hand, but they seemed to think that a sizeable number of rape allegations were fabricated and that there was a correlation between fabrications and boozing.

Jan 30, 2015 7:00 PM

#192

traed

Offline

Mar 2008

47473

Depends how drunk.

Jan 30, 2015 8:06 PM

#193

Offline

Oct 2010

2269

Red_Keys said:

Comic_Sans said:
Okay, so what about the other way around?

Denying a woman sex is sexual abuse.

So if you have sex with her you're a sex offender. If you don't have sex with her you're a sex offender.

Reading this gave me brain cancer. Also, holy shit, how is 'to have sex with other people' sexual violence? Don't words have meanings anymore? Also 'to witness sexual acts' WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN.

Jan 30, 2015 9:04 PM

#194

asdvvasd

Offline

Apr 2014

7567

hentai_proxy said:
So if you have sex with her you're a sex offender. If you don't have sex with her you're a sex offender.

/thread

Jan 30, 2015 10:30 PM

#195

Offline

Oct 2010

2269

nomos said:

hentai_proxy said:

Reading this gave me brain cancer. Also, holy shit, how is 'to have sex with other people' sexual violence? Don't words have meanings anymore? Also 'to witness sexual acts' WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN.

I misread that too.

forcing partner to strip as a form of humiliation (maybe in front of children), to witness sexual acts, to participate in uncomfortable sex or sex after an episode of violence, to have sex with other people

I stand corrected (I do retain the excuse that the text gave me brain cancer, so I could not read clearly), but Red_Keys' point remains. No linguistic acrobatics like the ones you point to pertains to the bolded text in Red_keys's post.

Jan 30, 2015 10:35 PM

#196

Offline

Oct 2010

2269

Blackout0219 said:
I've already said the daily mall was bullshitting.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/law/men_accused_rape_dont_have_to_prove_woman_said_yes-38719

No you don't have to prove she said yes. The OP posted a news from the DM that is as usual full of shit. Obviously no one would ever pass a law inverting the burden of proof

Nice and pretty conclusive concerning the article, but one basic problem remains. From the article:

In rape cases, to get a conviction the prosecution has to prove three things:

-> That a man intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis,
-> The other person does not consent to the penetration, and
-> The man does not reasonably believe that the other person consents.

Why is 'rape' completely unqualified and immediately a male perpetrator is implied in the text? How can one prove female to male rape under these guidelines?

Jan 30, 2015 10:41 PM

#197