Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou. Episode 7 Discussion

Ahaxx said:

Did you time travel from the 1950s or something you have such a primitive view of women it’s unbelievably. I guess me and yoshida aren’t “regular” guys for preferring older women I’m fine that with whatever makes me happy as long as I don’t see women the way you do

borderliner said:


Definitely from the present, he's Borat !!

NirvashX1 said:
sayu is dumb girl confirmed !!! her family rich if you look her brother , but she decided to sell her body to stranger man ...

borderliner said:


I think Sayu is probably just very naïve.

And having a rich family is definitely not a guarantee of happiness.

She may well have run away because she didn't feel she was able to meet expectations, she certainly has self worth issues.

BetaMaleUltra said:
a nice cgi Lexus ES 350

ImmortalZero said:
So what the hell was that talk with Mishima? Gotou just went complete 180 on everything she's been preaching these past episodes...


Also we have Sayu's brother showing up in the end which looks like Sayu comes from a rich family. Can already imagine various scenarios on what happened in the past. Like that kinda explains why there's no missing person search for Sayu since it would have been a big scandal for the company or something.

FMmatron said:

Yaguchi the MVP this episode.

sabishiihito said:

If a former mass murderer like Vegeta can be redeemed, an attempted rapist can be redeemed. I think killing is a tad worse of a crime.

nocivo said:

Why people need more excuses to hate Yaguchi? His mistake when he though she wanted sex wasn't enough. Do you guys think that someone that does a bad thing will always do bad things left and right? If he was a bandit he would be in jail for murder or something worse.He just helped his coworker. That something most people since first day and even more when you get to private with them more time. Nothing extraordinary. You don't need to excuse him for the mistakes he did but you shouldn't also asking for excuses to hate him even more.

Phantasy_Starved said:

I think this assessment is even better, because I admire someone being succinct:

That's what happened. Just like last episode Yaguchi did a very bad thing, but said some true things. Also well done on catching on that Asami's dialogue was purposeful.

People are so concerned with Yaguchi getting his comeuppance and not getting any time to shine at the expense of reality or good fiction. I could almost hope he ends up with Sayu just so I can watch some brains melt.

Bear_from_cave said:
I've read shoujou manga where main love interest tries to organize heroine's gangrape, plus in real life there are *still* places where rapists marry their victims to hush the scandal, so no, nobody's brain would melt from that.

When story shows evil character doing something nice, it's never just something that happened, because story always creates a message. The message can be a warning that evil people can pretend to be nice, or exploration of villain's psyche, or comparing to even worse villain, but it is there nonetheless. In this case, as demonstrated by so many people who think he's "guy with integrity", "made a mistake", "If he was a bandit he would be in jail", "Well he wasn’t necessarily bad [...] his recent assault on Sayu was probably cuz he was just real horny", the message seems to be that threating and raping a kid is just minor fault.
And BTW, Yaguchi didn't say any true things last episode. He would still try to rape Sayu even if Yoshida did send her back home and Yaguchi somehow met her again after, so his discussion of Yoshida's motives is pointless.

Phantasy_Starved said:


Let's not go around in circles on this my man. This is why I prefer responding to people who make good points, instead of arguing with people who are just preaching. We all get your point dude, you don't have to keep repeating it every time someone pops in with the obvious counterview. But just to point out yet more logical fallacies of yours, and then please dear lord put this to rest:

1) Sure, rape fantasy shoujou manga exists, so what? This obviously isn't one, so yes, people's brain would melt if a (still 0% chance) Yaguchi became the 'winner'. Also, the fact that you make such an obviously poor take just to try to score a point, shows that you're just being argumentative.

2) Again, consider that perhaps the message isn't 'raping kids is okay' and maybe 'Sayu understands Saguchi a lot better now'. The whole damn story is built around the main character affirming that raping kids is not okay.

3) Your assertion that Saguchi would still rape Sayu is all on you. I hope that this isn't a case of projection.

Gab5 said:
Yes, exactly, Yaguchi attempted to rape her that one time, and she had already said 'go ahead'. And he had slept with her plenty of times without raping her. Which probably had a lot to do with him trying to force the issue. The show seems to make a point of saying that he had 7 girlfriends, so raping people probably isn't the norm for him. And I'm sure that a lot of situations like this, in real life, happen because the guy thinks he is on a sure thing when, actually, he isn't. That doesn't excuse his behaviour but he probably isn't your usual rapist. And, besides, a bad guy can still do a good thing once in his life, he even said that he wasn't really helping her, he just hates rich people who think they can do whatever they like (which her brother never suggested, he was actually pretty polite considering that he probably knew she was there)

But, now that he has been warned off and been shown that Sayu isn't a 'sure thing' anymore, I don't think he will spend anymore time chasing her, it is not worth the effort for him.

Gab5 said:

Yes, exactly, Yaguchi attempted to rape her that one time, and she had already said 'go ahead'. And he had slept with her plenty of times without raping her. Which probably had a lot to do with him trying to force the issue. The show seems to make a point of saying that he had 7 girlfriends, so raping people probably isn't the norm for him. And I'm sure that a lot of situations like this, in real life, happen because the guy thinks he is on a sure thing when, actually, he isn't. That doesn't excuse his behaviour but he probably isn't your usual rapist. And, besides, a bad guy can still do a good thing once in his life, he even said that he wasn't really helping her, he just hates rich people who think they can do whatever they like (which her brother never suggested, he was actually pretty polite considering that he probably knew she was there)

But, now that he has been warned off and been shown that Sayu isn't a 'sure thing' anymore, I don't think he will spend anymore time chasing her, it is not worth the effort for him.

Phantasy_Starved said:

Yes, thank you, this is exactly it. For everyone who doesn't like how it's portrayed in the anime, that's subjective and you have a right to your opinion, but Gab5's explanation here, this is objectively and correctly explaining Saguchi's role. And since Sayu also understands all this, and because she obviously has forgiven him to some extent, she has already moved on. No further explanation, such as attributing motive to the author is necessary.

Bear_from_cave said:


No sane person would've thought you can threaten to destroy someone's job, corner her in empty place, then after repetadly demanding sex from her get a "yes" answer that would be in any way consensual. Rather, Yaguchi forcing Sayu to agree to her own rape is additional torture that would cause her even more mental scars. The fact that Yaguchi believed it would be consensual shows how sociopathic his idea of consent is. When we add the fact that after seeing girl who was selling her body on the streets before, and now has actual job and friends that aren't just for sex and roof, he wants to destroy her way to better life if she doesn't behave as he wants, show his casually cruel and controlling nature. I'm very curious if Yaguchi saying he hates people controlling other with power and helping her after that look at scared Sayu reminded him of how she looked at him and was a result of realistion of his own hypocrisy, thought that seems far-fetched based on how much in denial he was las episode.

There are plenty of cases when someone raped his former or current partner, laws punishing marital rape were introduced for a reason. Yaguchi's insistence that because he stil wants sex with her means that she must feel same way, even as she keeps refusing, is another example of sociopathic whinking, where Sayu must want same thing as he does.

Plenty of serial rapist were loving boyfriends and husbands, so Yaguchi having 7 girlfriends doesn't mean much. I'd even say that is another proof of his warped thinking that he was surprised when they dumped him after learning that. You can see parallels to Sayu's rape: He thinks they should be okay with poly relationship if he is - Sayu must be okay with sex if he is; girlfriends should've known they aren't in monogamic relationship somehow - Sayu should've known she safely can refuse sex even if he broke his promises and kept ignoring her refusals.

I think raping a clearly terrified girl and forcing her to agree to her own rape "one time" is still bad enough, but also imagine the possible consequences. If Yoshida didn't stop the rape, Sayu wouldn't have been able to hide it from Yoshida and Asami, but she would be rightly afraid that if she tells about rape Yoshida will get hurt, so most probably she would have run away again, back to selling herself to random man, this time much more traumatised, convinced she isn't worth anything and doesn't have right to refuse sex, and if another someone like Yoshida or Asami would try to help her she would've avoid them to not hurt them and not get false hope. That kind of life couldn't end well for her. Yaguchi's "one time" could've easily destroy her life and future.

I agree that he probably won't try to harm Sayu further, he seems to like his own fake image of a guy that's decent if horny, so once others forced him to at least partially notice what he tried to do was wrong, he seems to try and make it up to her even, maybe even noticing how warped his morals are. I wonder if we'll see him changing more in the story, or will we be left on his sudden and not very explained enlightement.

I disagree that he's that unusual for a rapist - there are many cases when rapist claims that eg. if female aquitance spent the night in his home because she was on trip in his and he offered a bed, she should've known it means sex so it was consensual, or that one Polish MP that asked "how can you even rape a prostitute?" because sex workers (like Sayu kinda was - the basis of their relationship) aren't allowed to refuse sex. Also, girl that avoids you, pretends to not know you and that has to be blackmailed into even talking to you is as far from "sure thing" as possible.
Besides, even his standard of "consensual sex" is pretty low, as he many times slept with teenage prostitute in exchange for basic necessities, which is moraly suspect and treated as rape in most countries - both the underage part and "she can't really refuse him in this situation" part. Jeffrey Epstein's whole business was based on similar thing.

EDIT: Oh, I also agree that brother seems to be nice guy - if he searched for her the entire time then her family may not be as bad, or at least part of it. Maybe Yoshida made a blunder in not reporting Sayu? After all, if he didn't get home and stop her rape, he would've be also responsible for her "bad end", which was pretty close thing.


If guy who thinks blackmailing job of people who avoid him to talk with them is normal, and refuses to admit asking sex from girl he blackmailed is rape, and feels entitled to any woman that ever slept with him consensualy before is objectively not someone with typical rapist mindset but just a guy who made a mistake, then the author failed to properly show the seriousness of rape.

Gab5 said:

Sure, plenty of serial rapists have relationships, but I think that Yaguchi isn't being written as a serial rapist and there is nothing to suggest that he has done this before. He even says so himself, in real life that would be questionable but I don't think that the writer would put that line in if he was like that, there's nowhere for that information to go, so I would assume that it was true.

Gab5 said:

I'm not sure where you get the idea that he slept with prostitutes, they clearly stated that he had 7 girlfriends, so he must have been at least keeping up the pretence of being in a normal relationship with him. And, of course, his idea of consensual sets the bar very low, but we know nothing about his relationships, other than they all thought they were his girlfriend.

Bear_from_cave said:
I agree with most stuff so I'll just post additional explanation.

I agree he's not serial type, he values his own good image after all, I just wanted to say that previous good record doesn't mean that much. He's an accidental rapist, the type that would watch "the Implication" scene in "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" and thought "so, guy tried to make good mood for sex?".


I meant that Sayu was technically selling her body but for "room and board" instead of money, so I tried to make analogy to underage prostitution like Epstein's island. Sayu's case seems even more immoral to me as it would be harder for her to refuse sex and go back to street, then again probably most underage prostitutes don't really have choice in what they do.

I agree that author probably tried to make realistic bad guy, and even succeeded, but unless they explore him more I'm not sure what are we supposed to make of his change, and how much of a change it even is.
I regret they didn't include at least more of his creepy backstory, or at least animated the scene from manga where she points out he lied about not raping her and he goes "Oh, you're right" which is so fitting for his weird outlook, and would make her laugh much more understandable.

Gab5 said:

Considering his connections, the brother could have come on a lot heavier than he did, especially as he probably knew she worked there. But giving out details of other people is a bit of a no no so he couldn't do much. Maybe he doesn't know much about why Sayu ran away. If Yoshida had reported her, it might have turned out ok, but maybe the brother wouldn't have got involved if she had returned home so quickly.

Bear_from_cave said:

I just noticed that I wrote that unclearly, I meant that in first episode Yoshida decides to let Sayu stay in large part because her family isn't even looking for her, but now we know it's was not true, they just did it unofficially for some reason, and his decision to let her stay was based on false premise.
That decision was made with Sayu's good in mind, but it also made her vulnerable for creeps like Yaguchi. If Sayu ended up raped in Yoshida's home and traumatized how could Yoshida look the brother in the face?