Strong or brave females rare in Anime? Really?

Darklord_bg said:


You imply that Kirito and Kamina are taken seriously as characters?

Darklord_bg said:


You imply that Kirito and Kamina are taken seriously as characters?

Darklord_bg said:


You imply that Kirito and Kamina are taken seriously as characters?

silversongwriter said:
Kamina should be...

Shirayukishi said:
Very rare yes. The only females who are strong and brave but in a cool way, like you know, not a fanservice way, those are the female characters in my favorites. (well from the anime i've watch ofc)

Balong said:


Perhaps, but in an other hand, It doesn't help very much.

It's fantasy, I get it, but when I see a "strong independent woman" character with those kind of outfit, for me, It's as hard to take her seriously as a character like Kirito of SAO or Kamina from TTGL...

Look at Erza Scarlet, strong and brave, yes, but she's a fanservice living bowl..

Malicre said:


There is no way in hell you can tell me any character is better then teresa when you haven't even watched claymore. You're opinion doesn't even matter anymore.

Malicre said:


There is no way in hell you can tell me any character is better then teresa when you haven't even watched claymore. You're opinion doesn't even matter anymore.

azzuRe said:

But why wouldn't you take them seriously just because they shows some cleavages or crotch cam?
Strong independent woman is not skin deep, any kind of fanservice didn't change their integrity as a character.

LunarProxy said:


I personally was disappointed by Claymore. I've read various chapters of the manga through Shounen Jump in the past, and the manga is much better.

Working_Designs said:


Oh no, I have different taste in Anime than you! There must be something wrong with me!

How much Anime have you even seen, anyway? Because your list is completely bare.

King_of_Devils said:


That's not the point, it's that you have'nt even watched the anime and you made judgements that only someone who actually watched the anime can make...................Somehow

vodall said:
Why do you insist on calling them 'females'? It's just weird.

vodall said:
Why do you insist on calling them 'females'? It's just weird.

shawnofthedeadz said:
I think the problem isn't strong female leads, its strong female leads in an anime which is targeted at women. Sure, there are a ton of females who are powerful, strong and etc, but a lot of them are also sexy imaginations of male desires. Yona is a powerful lead in a shoujo anime. This is rarer, and could explain the love towards her.

shawnofthedeadz said:
I think the problem isn't strong female leads, its strong female leads in an anime which is targeted at women. Sure, there are a ton of females who are powerful, strong and etc, but a lot of them are also sexy imaginations of male desires. Yona is a powerful lead in a shoujo anime. This is rarer, and could explain the love towards her.

shawnofthedeadz said:
I think the problem isn't strong female leads, its strong female leads in an anime which is targeted at women. Sure, there are a ton of females who are powerful, strong and etc, but a lot of them are also sexy imaginations of male desires. Yona is a powerful lead in a shoujo anime. This is rarer, and could explain the love towards her.

Monad said:

Ghost in shell Kusanagi is oversexualized and has lost her humanity. She isn't a relatable average-joe main character to explain the plot the the viewer. She is alien, a super-hero supported by machines, mostly immune to internal conflicts except when the show needs to make a philosophical point.
Black Lagoon Are you seriously calling Remi a role-model for equality of female representation? She's unstable, fucked up in the head, violent, savage, and oversexualized.
Kill la kill A show about women, comedically oversexualized as a form of parody, but then fails as parody when it takes itself too seriously. The two characters that could be used as an example here, Mako and Satsuki;

Satsuki is seen as a military dictator with creepy eyebrows that is some sort of deus-ex machina human prodigy (because she has no life fibers in her body) yet she's sexually humiliated by her mother in the most creepy, incest ways. Mako, the greatest potential for feminism by supporting lesbian relationships through her intimacy with Ryuuko, seen as the average girl who can make mistakes, is completely deflated as a comedic relief balloon as her credibility drops.

Shingeki no Kyojin Are you talking about Mikasa's adopted brother-complex, because I don't consider that a pro in favor of your argument.

Or, maybe you're talking about how another character isn't human?

Not a good pick.
Jormungand If you're referring to Koko, yeah, I could see that. She has a reasonable backstory and she isn't oversexualized or dehumanized.
Evangelion Well, considering every single girl has some serious daddy issues, I don't know if this speaks well for female independence...
Uchouten Kazoku The mother's insane, the god isn't human.
Terra Formars Everyone but Michelle Davis is completely reliant on the men. Michelle Davis' power is hilariously sexist, because she uses her thighs to crush people...
Claymore Not human.
Code Geass Who, C.C.? Wheelchair girl? Main love interest who is poorly written? Not exactly good answers for this in this show...
Magi If you really think Mogiana is a good representation of female independence, then why does she fall in the trope of the animalistic-redeemed slave with gratitude for her master, gratuitous fanservice, on top of that atrocious belly dancing scene?
Mardock Scramble Mentally damaged 15 year old mechanically reborn prostitute out for revenge can only love an artificial life form due to her trauma? Is that a good choice?
Shingeki no Bahamut Not human, tons of fanservice, and

she's like 1 year old

Again, why is this a good pick?
Baccano! Let's see... one's not human, the other's comedic relief, another is mentally damaged, and another is dependent on her man...
Pandora Hearts Alice? What? She's crazy and not human, as well as lovesick...
Chrno Crusade She's an idiot, but at least she's closer to a point.
Akame ga Kill! Eww, nobody on this show deserves mention.
Gunslinger Girl Are you sick in the head? WTF is wrong with you bringing this show up?!? Brainwashed government instruments manipulated by men as an example?
Zetsuen no Tempest Who, the failing princess or the other chick who was more enigma than character?
Angel Beats! I'm not sure... Yuri eccentric more than strong, and Kanade is another weirdo.
Soul Eater I can agree with Maka being an example here. She wasn't oversexualized and she was realistic in the sense that she was used to introduce the world through her.
Mirai Nikki Yuno is psycho.
Highschool of the Dead Harem of MC
Fate series I assume you mean Stay Night, and specifically Rin. I won't completely argue, but she also fits in the damaged goods dependent on men category...
Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom Are we really using psycho-male-dependent brainwashed characters here?
Psycho-Pass I can agree with Akane in this respect.
Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Nope.
Elfen Lied Hell no.
Ookami to Koushinryou This is the best example you have listed by far, Holo is of the "not human category", but by far one of my favorite characters.
Ergo Proxy I watched it, but I don't know if I can agree or disagree.
Seirei no Moribito Very, very good example in this one. Motherly, yet self-sufficient. No fanservice, independent...
Kara no Kyoukai She's kinda messed up in the head

Working_Designs said:
The point is, I've seen plenty of Charismatic females in Anime over the 23 years that I've been watching Anime, but this "Malicre" person seems to think that his opinion is above mine.

I'm also aware that Claymore is on your favorites list, so it doesn't matter what I say, because you think it's better than everything else, and nothing will change your mind.

King_of_Devils said:


UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........................................

Ya Know, If you missed my point any further, you'd be falling down a cliff before you know it.

To put it in simple terms: I DO NOT CARE WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

It's simply that there is nothing I loath more than having a discussion and then it turning out that person does'nt even what he's talking about.

And yes, as far as that certain anime goes.......Of course his opinion is above your own, he's watched the anime (at least I hope he has) and knows what he's talking about. You did'nt, anything you say about it speculation at best, You can't have an opinion on something you have no knowledge of

Working_Designs said:

I mentioned a bunch of other charismatic girls on the previous page, and you said you "Never heard of them," so how can you say Teresa is better, if you haven't seen any of the other Anime I listed?

Working_Designs said:
Malicre didn't say if he saw Gall Force or not. I don't care if you didn't like it, Rabby is very charismatic.

The said:
There is no way in hell you can tell me any character is better then teresa when you haven't even watched claymore. You're opinion doesn't even matter anymore.

I mentioned a bunch of other charismatic girls on the previous page, and you said you "Never heard of them," so how can you say Teresa is better, if you haven't seen any of the other Anime I listed?

You're not any better.

Yours said:
Honey's Awesome, but not exactly in that tier yet

The rest............Never even heard of em

Crimefridge said:


Arguing that Claymore has charismatic, not tragically depicted over-sexualized and/or dehumanized women while not watching the show is childish. Don't use an example you can't support.

Shuda- said:



Sorry, spur of the moment.

King_of_Devils said:


What he said had nothing to even do with gall force


^



I never said she was better than any of 'em, I said I never heard of 'em, therefore I had intention of making that judgement



If I ever run into somewhere again, I'll make sure to spell out everything for you in Kindergartden terms and Giant Bolded Letters to avoid any misunderstandings

Working_Designs said:

What the hell are you talking about? I gave examples. If you haven't seen the Anime I gave examples of, then who are you to judge my opinion on charismatic females?

I haven't seen Macross, but it looks gay, therefore your opinion sux lololol

Working_Designs said:

Sorry, but Claymore is way too violent for me to ever watch it. I'm not into that stuff, and that's not just because it's a newer Anime.

Crimefridge said:
You made a list arguing that strong and brave females are not rare in anime.

For one, this is bullshit, and I will use your own examples against you. In almost every instance, they oversexualize, dehumanize, or assign some mental disorders/fucked-upness or some otherwise potent gimmick to allow the character to stand outside the social norms of Japanese animators general social norms.

Here's the anime you listed, narrowed to one's I've watched, and my rebuttals:


I don't think listing people who are physically strong is exactly rebutting the issue. Female representation needs to show more variety in personality without painting them as monsters, crazy, or sex-fiends. Your list mostly demonstrated that anime has failed to represent women well, not that it actually does a good job of it.

In summary, the problem with anime today is it fails to represent females or give female role models. The few that do are fighting against a current of scantily clad bath / beach scenes and female interdependence with men.

Working_Designs said:
Don't waste your time arguing with me, kid.

Crimefridge said:


No, what I said is to NOT ARGUE WITH SOMEONE when you DON'T KNOW THE CHARACTERS OR SHOW IN THEIR EXAMPLE. Like what you just tried to redirect on me.

I just made a post removing all anime I didn't know and critiqued the OP's opinion by pointing out that certain titles are sexist for the female psyche and are fatally misogynistic and disempowering to women, without attacking anime I had no clue about. For example.

An example of what NOT to do is:



You might not even be wrong with your critique on Claymore. I would argue that that show is very toxic to women through the oversexualization and the dehumanization, but you wouldn't know because you never watched it. Don't argue with people when you don't even know what they're talking about.

Working_Designs said:

The reason I haven't watched Claymore, is because I don't watch Anime with over the top violence or sex scenes, as I find it to be very disturbing. It doesn't matter how much they argue about it, because I'll always look at shows like Claymore as "Disgusting."

I'm done here.

Crimefridge said:


Great, but that's not relevant to the topic. Bye.

Working_Designs said:

But what do you know about anything? You gave "Pale Cocoon" a 7, and that was a piece of garbage.

Crimefridge said:


You're trying to invalidate my opinion based off a single score that the collective total of MAL rated 7.63? There wasn't anything hideously wrong with that short, and again, yes, you're off topic. Saying you won't watch an anime for personal reasons doesn't dismiss your shitty attitude of arbitrarily arguing that anime is inferior / your opinion is god when you haven't even seen the damn show.

Now get.

Crimefridge said:
Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Nope.

LordofW said:


OK LOL

jal90 said:
Expand, please.

jal90 said:

Expand, please.

Crimefridge said:
They aren't role models or heroes. Other than Madoka, everyone came out of that show mentally screwed up. Madoka is another example of an enigma. I also think that the magical girls element is another example of the oversexualization, except in this case worse in that it is lolis.

Crimefridge said:


They aren't role models or heroes. Other than Madoka, everyone came out of that show mentally screwed up. Madoka is another example of an enigma. I also think that the magical girls element is another example of the oversexualization, except in this case worse in that it is lolis.

Crimefridge said:

They aren't role models or heroes. Other than Madoka, everyone came out of that show mentally screwed up. Madoka is another example of an enigma. I also think that the magical girls element is another example of the oversexualization, except in this case worse in that it is lolis.

DrGeroCreation said:
Lucy is a shitty, pathetic butt monkey character.

Malicre said:


Are you serious? Teresa from claymore would shit all over any female from the 80/90s anime, hell she is prob hands down the most badass and charismatic female character ever.

King_of_Devils said:


You confuse me, why does a character have to be a role model (lol) or some goody-too-shoes to be considered "strong" or "brave"??