Yooka-Laylee devs remove Youtuber JonTron from the game due to expressing support of racist and far-right beliefs.
UK developer Playtonic has removed the controversial YouTuber JonTron from its upcoming title Yooka-Laylee. JonTron - real name Jon Jafari - has found himself in the news in recent weeks following a series of far-right views about immigration, ethnicity and nationalism. Jafari is the founder of channel network Normal Boots, plus the host of a series of other YouTube shows. He personally has over 3m subscribers to his channel. His views were made apparent on Twitter and spilled over onto a video stream, and included the idea that Mexican immigrants are attempting to claim parts of America. He reportedly lost a number of subscribers on the back of the controversy, although he has since attempted to clarify and downplay some of those views. In February 2015, when it became apparent that Jafari was a big fan of Banjo-Kazooie, Playtonic invited the YouTuber to voice a minor character in Yooka-Laylee - the spiritual successor that generated over £2m via Kickstarter. An offer that was accepted. However, following the recent controversy, the developer has decided to remove him from the game. The title launches on April 11th. "We recently became aware of comments made by voice artist JonTron after development on Yooka-Laylee had been completed," the firm told GamesIndustry.biz in a statement. "JonTron is a talented video presenter who we were initially, two years ago, happy to include as a voice contributor in our game. However, in light of his recent personal viewpoints we have made the decision to remove JonTron's inclusion in the game via a forthcoming content update. We would like to make absolutely clear that we do not endorse or support JonTron's personal viewpoints and that, as an external fan contributor, he does not represent Playtonic in any capacity. Playtonic is a studio that celebrates diversity in all forms and strives to make games that everyone can enjoy. As such, we deeply regret any implied association that could make players feel anything but 100% comfortable in our game worlds, or distract from the incredible goodwill and love shown by our fans and Kickstarter backers." Update: Jafari has responded to Playtonic's decision on Twitter. He wrote: "Unfortunate to see Playtonic remove me from Yooka Laylee, but I understand their decision. I wish them the best with their launch!" http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-03-23-playtonic-removes-controversial-youtuber-jontron-from-yooka-laylee How dare they punish someone for saying offensive views towards other people, I'm offended! |
| gamers: take politics out of video games playtonic: ok gamers: put politics back in video games |
an egomaniac and a fool |
Clexa said: gamers: take politics out of video games playtonic: ok gamers: put politics back in video games how is something he said on his youtube channel related to the game? |
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| I personally don't understand their decision. This is completely unprofessional for them to do this. While I'm not personally a fan of Jon, the relationship between Playtonic and JonTron was entirely professional in nature, and doing this has shown that Playtonic cares not for its consumers but rather its own personal views. I wasn't sure if I was going to play Yooka Laylee or not, but at this point I feel a larger inclination not to play it than ever. |
Thrashinuva said: I personally don't understand their decision. This is completely unprofessional for them to do this. While I'm not personally a fan of Jon, the relationship between Playtonic and JonTron was entirely professional in nature, and doing this has shown that Playtonic cares not for its consumers but rather its own personal views. I wasn't sure if I was going to play Yooka Laylee or not, but at this point I feel a larger inclination not to play it than ever. They clearly said they took him off for the consumers sake. |
SuperRed said: Thrashinuva said: I personally don't understand their decision. This is completely unprofessional for them to do this. While I'm not personally a fan of Jon, the relationship between Playtonic and JonTron was entirely professional in nature, and doing this has shown that Playtonic cares not for its consumers but rather its own personal views. I wasn't sure if I was going to play Yooka Laylee or not, but at this point I feel a larger inclination not to play it than ever. They clearly said they took him off for the consumers sake. What else can we do in the name of the consumers? Let's delay the game so we can put Mr T in it. It's for the consumers. |
| It's like Banjo & Kazooie In other words entirely acceptable for children with a tinge of adult humor. |
It's for people who played and enjoyed games like Banjo Kazooie, SM64, Conker on the N64. |
SuperRed said: Thrashinuva said: I personally don't understand their decision. This is completely unprofessional for them to do this. While I'm not personally a fan of Jon, the relationship between Playtonic and JonTron was entirely professional in nature, and doing this has shown that Playtonic cares not for its consumers but rather its own personal views. I wasn't sure if I was going to play Yooka Laylee or not, but at this point I feel a larger inclination not to play it than ever. They clearly said they took him off for the consumers sake. I guess the real question is, how many of their consumers ACTUALLY care about Jontrons viewponts to the point where they would lose the sale on their product for him having such a minor role? Answer: Probably none. To be honest, The controversy of actually removing him from the product is probably more damaging to their image than anything Jontron actually said. Basically removing him from their product is them siding with SJWs. SJWs aren't the most popular thing this day and age, even though people who identify as such might not see it that way. Afaik, this is something that was basically orchestrated by NeoGaff, which anyone familiar with that site knows that its cancer, and the people there are worse than your average /v/tard. The fact that an off-colour comment is enough to jeprodize your career is honestly frightening. Especially in this age where your privacy is being stripped away slowly, day by day. Call me dramatic, but I think the opinions people hold in private should have no bearing on how you're percieved at work. As long as you are professional at the workplace, and what you're doing in private isn't criminal, it shouldn't even matter. I know what Jontron said was basically public debate, but companies already look at stuff like facebook, and its a real possibility they'll be able to get ahold of your browsing history in some places. Eventually there will be enough data mined on you that your opinions on various things will be apparent whether you're especially vocal about them or not. |
FontSize72LOLMar 25, 2017 10:57 AM
FontSize72LOL said: I guess the real question is, how many of their consumers ACTUALLY care about Jontrons viewponts to the point where they would lose the sale on their product for him having such a minor role? Answer: Probably none. To be honest, The controversy of actually removing him from the product is probably more damaging to their image than anything Jontron actually said. Basically removing him from their product is them siding with SJWs. SJWs aren't the most popular thing this day and age, even though people who identify as such might not see it that way. Afaik, this is something that was basically orchestrated by NeoGaff, which anyone familiar with that site knows that its cancer, and the people there are worse than your average /v/tard. The fact that an off-colour comment is enough to jeprodize your career is honestly frightening. Especially in this age where your privacy is being stripped away slowly, day by day. Call me dramatic, but I think the opinions people hold in private should have no bearing on how you're percieved at work. As long as you are professional at the workplace, and what you're doing in private isn't criminal, it shouldn't even matter. I know what Jontron said was basically public debate, but companies already look at stuff like facebook, and its a real possibility they'll be able to get ahold of your browsing history in some places. Eventually there will be enough data mined on you that your opinions on various things will be apparent whether you're especially vocal about them or not. Publically defending a white nationalist tweet on a mainstream social site isn't an "opinion held in private". |
SuperRed said: FontSize72LOL said: I guess the real question is, how many of their consumers ACTUALLY care about Jontrons viewponts to the point where they would lose the sale on their product for him having such a minor role? Answer: Probably none. To be honest, The controversy of actually removing him from the product is probably more damaging to their image than anything Jontron actually said. Basically removing him from their product is them siding with SJWs. SJWs aren't the most popular thing this day and age, even though people who identify as such might not see it that way. Afaik, this is something that was basically orchestrated by NeoGaff, which anyone familiar with that site knows that its cancer, and the people there are worse than your average /v/tard. The fact that an off-colour comment is enough to jeprodize your career is honestly frightening. Especially in this age where your privacy is being stripped away slowly, day by day. Call me dramatic, but I think the opinions people hold in private should have no bearing on how you're percieved at work. As long as you are professional at the workplace, and what you're doing in private isn't criminal, it shouldn't even matter. I know what Jontron said was basically public debate, but companies already look at stuff like facebook, and its a real possibility they'll be able to get ahold of your browsing history in some places. Eventually there will be enough data mined on you that your opinions on various things will be apparent whether you're especially vocal about them or not. Publically defending a white nationalist tweet on a mainstream social site isn't an "opinion held in private". There is nothing inherently wrong about white nationalism. Every other ethnicity is allowed to have centric beliefs except for white people, it seems. I honestly am not a white nationalist, I don't really care, but people using "White Nationalist" like its the worst thing ever, but wouldn't call out any other ethnicity for doing the same thing is kind of, eck. I guess let me re-phrase this. As long as every other ethnicity has some form of ethno-nationalism, there is either: A) Nothing wrong with White Nationalism B) Everything wrong with every Nationalism. You cant condemn one, but allow the rest. |
| It really saddens me to see JonTron say such stupid things. I still enjoy watching his videos and the older GameGrumps episodes that he's in. I'm really excited for the game despite this news. I need my Banjo-Kazooie fix. |
Clexa said: I get you're trying to point out some kind of hypocrisy here to look smart but that use of logic is so backwards and dismissive of the entire point the only thing that people will see from your post is how stupid you are.gamers: take politics out of video games playtonic: ok gamers: put politics back in video games OT: e-celebs are cancer so I could care less about his removal While I dislike the idea of games taking a personal stance on politics when their subject matter is completely unrelated to the politics itself; it's understandable. It's their game after all. |
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| Talk Shit - Get hit. Fair game. JonTron expressed extremely racist views, advocated eugenics, ethnic cleansing and other morally deplorable things, while denouncing other races as "genetically predisposed towards Crime" and the like. Examples: "Oppression does not exist in america!" - https://clips.twitch.tv/BlitheRockyPotatoPastaThat "They want to take the whiteness away" - https://clips.twitch.tv/HotLuckyShingleVoteNay "Wealthy blacks commit more crime than poor whites. THATS A FACT" - https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSavoryTroutLitty The whole debate stream and most of his overall comments have more gems like implying "black people are born with predisposition to crime", talking how "assimilating other races would taint the gene pool", how "colonization was actually good for america" and the like. My personal favorite is his batshit insane claim that "mexican immigrants are invaders trying to reclaim lands from USA". These are good summaries of this individuals behavior. Unlike Pewdiepie its not just insensitive jokes or ignorance. http://gizmodo.com/popular-youtuber-jontron-has-some-batshit-crazy-thought-1793231221 Sure he has every right to say those things, even if they are completely deplorable and devoid of humanity and sounds like he is reciting out of infowars or racistbart, etc. Its his right. AS is the right of Companies and people, wanting to cut ties with such individual, to do so. Clexa said: gamers: take politics out of video games playtonic: ok gamers: put politics back in video games Basically. Racists always are the first to tout "freedom of speech" or raging how "censorship is unethical", while laughing at those "silly special snowflakes with their safespaces". yet the moment it turns around on them they are the first to cry that they are being oppressed. The "politics" arguments is only used when it is about something that clashes with their beliefs. Everything else? Totally not politics to them. Cagliyora said: 1. He has a lot of fans that don't have a problem refunding the game or outright bashing the game. As a mater of fact a lot of people have already gone ahead and done just that. If they support racist beliefs, good riddance. Its not even his fans mostly. Even his subreddit was filled with his own fans confused and shocked at his behavior. This is just usual internet hategroups bandwagoning to defend their precious white supremacist. And yeah that might seem petty to some but when you take a popular youtuber on board for obivous positive publicity you should also look out for the negative publicity when you brush the guy aside like that. Considering he just outed himself as a racist, keeping him would be associating with nazis, which nobody wants to do. That's just sensible business. As a company and as a human being you DO NOT want to be associated with hatespeech. 2. This will be seen as another company that gives into censorhip/SJW's which is never good publicity. I mean just look at Bioware. Upholding your beliefs is not censorship. You can't "censor yourself out of your own free will". They have every right to distance themselves from someone who is racist and pretty much spreads hate speech. It goes against their values and what they stand for. Its their right. Cutting your ties with racists is not "censorship" its common sense. There can be no tolerance for racism or hate speech overall. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence. |
AhenshihaelMar 25, 2017 1:32 PM
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| Nazi this nazi that Do you left-wing idiots understand how much people cringe when you use those words? One of these days we're not gonna have freedom of speech anymore, and it's gonna be your fucking fault for defending decisions like this. |
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Fai said: He was saying that oppression as described by the left does not exist. Voter ID laws do not oppress minorities, in relation to the clip."Oppression does not exist in america!" - https://clips.twitch.tv/BlitheRockyPotatoPastaThat "They want to take the whiteness away" - https://clips.twitch.tv/HotLuckyShingleVoteNay He's describing a reality in which white heritage is literally being devalued in favor of any other heritage. You can't claim that oppression exists in America while denying this."Wealthy blacks commit more crime than poor whites. THATS A FACT" - https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedSavoryTroutLitty He doesn't have a source for this, likely there's also not a source against it. What is factually true is that in proportion to populations of each race, Blacks do commit more crimes than Whites.It's not racist to be correct. Fai said: I'm not sure if these are all actual quotes considering you're putting "implying" and "like" next to them. His view on illegal immigration might be considered an extreme view, but that's merely the opinion of why they are performing those actions and not what should be done about them, hardly something worth calling him deplorable over.The whole debate stream and most of his overall comments have more gems like implying "black people are born with predisposition to crime", talking how "assimilating other races would taint the gene pool", how "colonization was actually good for america" and the like. My personal favorite is his batshit insane claim that "mexican immigrants are invaders trying to reclaim lands from USA". even if they are completely deplorable and devoid of humanity. That's, like, your opinion, man.But I know who I'm getting into this with. You're Fai. One of the craziest people to grace the internet. No matter what you're arguing about, logic breaks down entirely on your end, always. Even if your response to this is/would be coherent, I don't expect it to remain so, and depending on how bad it actually is I likely won't respond to that response. I'm not about to go down one of those rabbit holes again. Almost every view you take seems to be wrong, and even the views you take that seem to be correct are still misled by broken logic. As it is, I don't know how you function day to day. |
| A smart move from the devs to make it clear they have nothing to do with what Jon said. This way they evaded one, maybe a bigger, shitstorm. What is not smart, is going around steam forums banning people demanding refunds (not that the kickstarter backers really have much of a chance getting a refund). As for JonTron; I disagree with his views, but I still enjoy his videos. I'm just hoping he won't spout his nonsense in the coming videos, that's when it's time to stop. Oh, and Jon took it pretty gracefully, I hear. Nice of him to not fly into a rage over this, unlike the more rabid fanbois (they're still not as bad as Zelda fanbois, mind you). |
CondemneDioMar 25, 2017 1:46 PM
Syrup- said: Nazi this nazi that Do you left-wing idiots understand how much people cringe when you use those words? One of these days we're not gonna have freedom of speech anymore, and it's gonna be your fucking fault for defending decisions like this. JonTron advocates ethnic cleansing, claims "white race" is "superior" or "threatened"(literally LOL) and literally claims "other races would taint the gene pool". There's no other way to call it but Nazi. AS for the rest of post, I'll just leave this here:  Nobody stopped JonTron from going on a racist rant. Government trucks did not come crashing down upon him. Nobody should stop normal people from condemning him either. Thats part of freedom of speech too. CondemneDio said: What is not smart, is going around steam forums banning people demanding refunds (not that the kickstarter backers really have much of a chance getting a refund). There's no reason to get a refund or ask for one in terms of KS backers. They did not break any of the promises they made. JonTron was not a stretch goal or anything in the original pitch. Most of the said people were concern trolling and were directed to so by certain hate groups like certain r_tangerine subreddit. Its fair to deal with them that way. They also managed to deliver some sick burns at the same time: https://twitter.com/PlaytonicGames/status/845334801934680064 As for JonTron; I disagree with his views, but I still enjoy his videos. I'm just hoping he won't spout his nonsense in the coming videos, that's when it's time to stop .Its not like he makes videos anymore. He's far more interested raging on twitter or thanking people who frequent breitbart for support ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oh, and Jon took it pretty gracefully, I hear. Nice of him to not fly into a rage over this, unlike the more rabid fanbois (they're still not as bad as Zelda fanbois, mind you). In this case he most likely was advised by his lawyer to not get into more shit. He has enough trouble already. Did not stop him from making even more insane claims tho. |
AhenshihaelMar 25, 2017 2:06 PM
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| Okay Fai, but if I were running a company I would probably show you the door because that's also "freedom of speech". Can't have bigoted SJWs ruining my image, after all. Thrashinuva said: Almost every view you take seems to be wrong, and even the views you take that seem to be correct are still misled by broken logic. As it is, I don't know how you function day to day.  |
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| It doesn't really matter to me either way, since I was never interested in this game and I don't care about Jontron, but this is clearly a bad move just from a business standpoint. The number of people who wouldn't buy the game because Jontron has a few lines is going to be much less than the number of people who won't buy the game because the dev removed him from game due to his political views. |
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Fai said: There's no reason to get a refund or ask for one in terms of KS backers. They did not break any of the promises they made. Just gonna leave this image here: |
Narmy said: It doesn't really matter to me either way, since I was never interested in this game and I don't care about Jontron, but this is clearly a bad move just from a business standpoint. The number of people who wouldn't buy the game because Jontron has a few lines is going to be much less than the number of people who won't buy the game because the dev removed him from game due to his political views. I disagree. Maybe the game would sell better, but associating yourself with nazis might kill your funding and might discourage non-white people from applying to your company - which is a bad idea, if you want talented employees. |
| your waifu is shit |
SzJ said: You implying that blacks and hispanics are better at programming than white people?Narmy said: It doesn't really matter to me either way, since I was never interested in this game and I don't care about Jontron, but this is clearly a bad move just from a business standpoint. The number of people who wouldn't buy the game because Jontron has a few lines is going to be much less than the number of people who won't buy the game because the dev removed him from game due to his political views. I disagree. Maybe the game would sell better, but associating yourself with nazis might kill your funding and might discourage non-white people from applying to your company - which is a bad idea, if you want talented employees. |
Thrashinuva said: SzJ said: You implying that blacks and hispanics are better at programming than white people?I disagree. Maybe the game would sell better, but associating yourself with nazis might kill your funding and might discourage non-white people from applying to your company - which is a bad idea, if you want talented employees. No? Just saying that if you are only gonna hire white people, you will miss out on a lot of talented non-white people. And that's a dumb idea. |
| your waifu is shit |
SzJ said: I wonder what the ratio is, even? Of course they exist, and of course it's bad for a company to appear racist, but if we're strictly endangering the entirety of non-white employees we have by keeping on JonTron, versus endangering the number of total employees we have due to engaging in politics, how many more employees do you think you'd lose?Thrashinuva said: You implying that blacks and hispanics are better at programming than white people? No? Just saying that if you are only gonna hire white people, you will miss out on a lot of talented non-white people. And that's a dumb idea. With a quick google search and no in depth search on where this info came from, I found this: http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.igda.org/resource/collection/9215B88F-2AA3-4471-B44D-B5D58FF25DC7/IGDA_DeveloperDemographics_Oct05.pdf  (2005) How much do you think those numbers have shifted in 12 years? Which of those respondents that are black do you think work in an area not related to the development of the game? |
SzJ said: In terms of what is worse: thousands of sales lost because of an obsessive fanbase > replaceable code monkeys.Thrashinuva said: You implying that blacks and hispanics are better at programming than white people? No? Just saying that if you are only gonna hire white people, you will miss out on a lot of talented non-white people. And that's a dumb idea. |
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| I think its fair for them to make that decision, jontron even said he understands and wishes them luck with their launch and so forth. Theres really nothing to discuss here, a e-celeb made a fuck up, got damaged because of it, owns up to it and moves on facing consequences while previous connections want to distance themselves. There really is nothing to defend or get angry at here its just kind of beating a dead horse especially since who gives a shit about a single voice being removed, anyone saying they arent buying it cause hes not in it are lying through their teeth and werent interested in the first place. |
JizzyHitlerMar 25, 2017 2:58 PM
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Thrashinuva said: SzJ said: I wonder what the ratio is, even? Of course they exist, and of course it's bad for a company to appear racist, but if we're strictly endangering the entirety of non-white employees we have by keeping on JonTron, versus endangering the number of total employees we have due to engaging in politics, how many more employees do you think you'd lose?No? Just saying that if you are only gonna hire white people, you will miss out on a lot of talented non-white people. And that's a dumb idea. With a quick google search and no in depth search on where this info came from, I found this: http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.igda.org/resource/collection/9215B88F-2AA3-4471-B44D-B5D58FF25DC7/IGDA_DeveloperDemographics_Oct05.pdf (2005) How much do you think those numbers have shifted in 12 years? Which of those respondents that are black do you think work in an area not related to the development of the game? Wait, since when is it "political" to kick a white nationalist out? I thought it was pretty apolitical to hate racists. Also, what makes you think that white people don't get angry over white nationalists? I am white and I hate white nationalists/racists. |
| your waifu is shit |
| Its understandable but it won't stop me from watching his videos, or possibly playing the new game. |
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PeenusWeenusCaim said: SzJ said: In terms of what is worse: thousands of sales lost because of an obsessive fanbase > replaceable code monkeys.No? Just saying that if you are only gonna hire white people, you will miss out on a lot of talented non-white people. And that's a dumb idea. I can't recall the last successful boycott of any video game. I honestly doubt this will be the first one to succeed. Also, "code monkeys" lmao. Why are gamers always such assholes? |
| your waifu is shit |
SzJ said: This entire post of yours is entirely filled with politics.Thrashinuva said: I wonder what the ratio is, even? Of course they exist, and of course it's bad for a company to appear racist, but if we're strictly endangering the entirety of non-white employees we have by keeping on JonTron, versus endangering the number of total employees we have due to engaging in politics, how many more employees do you think you'd lose? With a quick google search and no in depth search on where this info came from, I found this: http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.igda.org/resource/collection/9215B88F-2AA3-4471-B44D-B5D58FF25DC7/IGDA_DeveloperDemographics_Oct05.pdf (2005) How much do you think those numbers have shifted in 12 years? Which of those respondents that are black do you think work in an area not related to the development of the game? Wait, since when is it "political" to kick a white nationalist out? I thought it was pretty apolitical to hate racists. Also, what makes you think that white people don't get angry over white nationalists? I am white and I hate white nationalists/racists. |
| If the backers wanted refunds then I'd say give it to them because after all, why would Playtonic want money from "racists" and "nazis" am I right? Playtonic was doing so well but then they just had to push for this diversity shit and that stuff will backfire at some point and it did. Also the fact that they listen to one of the worst forums out there, is completely stupid on their part. NeoGAF is the forum by the way, and if you know NeoGAF, they're a bunch of stubborn assholes that god help you if you have the wrong opinion since they will ban you immediately. On my side, I did back the game on KS ($15 if I remember correctly) and I'm still going to play it because I love Banjo Kazooie so much. Although, I don't agree with Playtonic's decision to get rid of JonTron and their whole "diversity" crap, especially when some that are involved with the game have mocked the backers on Twitter. |
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Thrashinuva said: I personally don't understand their decision. This is completely unprofessional for them to do this. While I'm not personally a fan of Jon, the relationship between Playtonic and JonTron was entirely professional in nature, and doing this has shown that Playtonic cares not for its consumers but rather its own personal views. I wasn't sure if I was going to play Yooka Laylee or not, but at this point I feel a larger inclination not to play it than ever. I don't think the decision to do this was for their own personal views but because they didn't want to associate their game with a such views that had the potential to put their marketing in danger. (Directed towards the topic as a whole) Regardless, i'm a fan of Jon. I watched the stream, and no he isn't a racist. At no point does he say or get the point across that whites are superior to any other race. What he does advocate for is the preservation of the white race as its heritage. Still an issue, mind you, but not thrown under the term "racism". America is by definition a melting pot, so I don't get where he's coming from but I can definitely understand the idea of being proud of who you are and your heritage. But there is a line you do not cross. There is a big comparison drawn to Japan specifically with this same idea. I won't say he's exactly correct, but he certainly isn't advocating for the superiority of the white race nor is he saying that people of color need to leave the country, die, are inferior, etc. |
the40ftbadger said: i have palpable amounts of salt for FO4. It's like a clown put on my dead dad's clothes and is running around my house going "LOOK I'M YOUR DAD, ISN'T THIS FUN?!?!" |
SzJ said: Wait, since when is it "political" to kick a white nationalist out? I thought it was pretty apolitical to hate racists. Also, what makes you think that white people don't get angry over white nationalists? I am white and I hate white nationalists/racists. With a litteral nazi in the white house, its the new push by white supremacists to normalize racism by pretending there's nothing wrong with it or that "its just an opinion". The "politics" argument became blanket statement by them whenever they want to avoid consequences. They are trying to push the narrative that condemning or preventing racism and hatespeech is "being political"(whatever that means in the first place). MAL has fair share of people like that too. You get a thread about how nazis are misrepresented every few months in CD. Its literally only few months since this thread happened. Its not surprising that anime and gaming communities are so vulnerable to radicalization considering huge portion of anime viewers use anime as escapism from their real lives and view it as an "exclusive" hobby that makes them special. And social outcasts are easiest to radicalize by latching onto their insecurities and convincing the some boogeyman is at fault for all their misfit troubles. Which is why nazi-leaning youtube personalities are such a dangerous phenomenon because it makes it easy for them to reach such people. |
AhenshihaelMar 25, 2017 3:30 PM
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Fai said: SzJ said: Wait, since when is it "political" to kick a white nationalist out? I thought it was pretty apolitical to hate racists. Also, what makes you think that white people don't get angry over white nationalists? I am white and I hate white nationalists/racists. With a litteral nazi in the white house, its the new push by white supremacists to normalize racism by pretending there's nothing wrong with it or that "its just an opinion". The "politics" argument became blanket statement by them whenever they want to avoid consequences. They are trying to push the narrative that condemning or preventing racism and hatespeech is "being political"(whatever that means in the first place). MAL has fair share of people like that too. You get a thread about how nazis are misrepresented every few months in CD. Its literally only few months since this thread happened. Its not surprising that anime and gaming communities are so vulnerable to radicalization considering huge portion of anime viewers use anime as escapism from their real lives and view it as an "exclusive" hobby that makes them special. And social outcasts are easiest to radicalize by latching onto their insecurities and convincing the some boogeyman is at fault for all their misfit troubles. Which is why nazi-leaning youtube personalities are such a dangerous phenomenon because it makes it easy for them to reach such people. Well said. In fact, I agree 100%. But I think you missed one important aspect of anime culture that can cause them to be vulnerable to far-right ideologies, namely sexism in some anime. I mean, shounen/seinen often objectify women to a great extent. Same with harem and high-school rom-coms. |
| your waifu is shit |
SzJ said: They've been called code monkeys since the 90s. Get with the times, pops.PeenusWeenusCaim said: In terms of what is worse: thousands of sales lost because of an obsessive fanbase > replaceable code monkeys. I can't recall the last successful boycott of any video game. I honestly doubt this will be the first one to succeed. Also, "code monkeys" lmao. Why are gamers always such assholes? Cagliyora said: Litteral nazi in the white house? You do know people will stop taking the word nazi seriously the more you don't use it correctly, right? Trump is far from perfect but by using Nazi (or fascist like some people love to) to describe him you're making light of people who have actually commited serious crimes deserving of that title. I really hate seeing it thrown around like that. These people we see today are no where near as bad as nazis. I tend to think the people who throw that word around lightly are the ones who fell asleep during history class. What Trump says: "I want to close the border to countries proven to be rife with terrorism" What SJWs hear: "KILL ALL THE MUDSLIMES. THROW THE SJWS OUT OF THE HELICOPTER. REEEEEEEE" |
Syrup-Mar 25, 2017 4:38 PM
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SzJ said: Fai said: With a litteral nazi in the white house, its the new push by white supremacists to normalize racism by pretending there's nothing wrong with it or that "its just an opinion". The "politics" argument became blanket statement by them whenever they want to avoid consequences. They are trying to push the narrative that condemning or preventing racism and hatespeech is "being political"(whatever that means in the first place). MAL has fair share of people like that too. You get a thread about how nazis are misrepresented every few months in CD. Its literally only few months since this thread happened. Its not surprising that anime and gaming communities are so vulnerable to radicalization considering huge portion of anime viewers use anime as escapism from their real lives and view it as an "exclusive" hobby that makes them special. And social outcasts are easiest to radicalize by latching onto their insecurities and convincing the some boogeyman is at fault for all their misfit troubles. Which is why nazi-leaning youtube personalities are such a dangerous phenomenon because it makes it easy for them to reach such people. Well said. In fact, I agree 100%. But I think you missed one important aspect of anime culture that can cause them to be vulnerable to far-right ideologies, namely sexism in some anime. I mean, shounen/seinen often objectify women to a great extent. Same with harem and high-school rom-coms. Objectification is a cultural issue, not political. You can be a romcom/harem fan and still be a strong pro-equality liberal. I am one myself. |
SuperRed said: SzJ said: Well said. In fact, I agree 100%. But I think you missed one important aspect of anime culture that can cause them to be vulnerable to far-right ideologies, namely sexism in some anime. I mean, shounen/seinen often objectify women to a great extent. Same with harem and high-school rom-coms. Objectification is a cultural issue, not political. You can be a romcom/harem fan and still be a strong pro-equality liberal. I am one myself. I feel like we are getting sort of off-topic here. I just meant to say that anime can draw in a lot of sexist people because of its depiction of women in some anime. And that (alongside with some other factors that @Fai mentioned) leads to a big number of anime fans defending neo nazis, such as Jontron. |
| your waifu is shit |
SzJ said: SuperRed said: Objectification is a cultural issue, not political. You can be a romcom/harem fan and still be a strong pro-equality liberal. I am one myself. I feel like we are getting sort of off-topic here. I just meant to say that anime can draw in a lot of sexist people because of its depiction of women in some anime. And that (alongside with some other factors that @Fai mentioned) leads to a big number of anime fans defending neo nazis, such as Jontron. I don't think some people deliberately seek out anime in order to have their personal sexism feel validated, at least I hope not. |
SzJ said: Boycotts are not do or die. Not every attempted boycott is created with the express purpose of seeing a business fail. The "boycotters" in this scenario just want to make it apparent to the devs that they are not going to reach maximum profit and nothing triggers a business more than the loss of potential profit. PeenusWeenusCaim said: In terms of what is worse: thousands of sales lost because of an obsessive fanbase > replaceable code monkeys. I can't recall the last successful boycott of any video game. I honestly doubt this will be the first one to succeed. Also, "code monkeys" lmao. Why are gamers always such assholes? Do you even know what code monkey means? |
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Fai said: Shut the fuck up.SzJ said: Wait, since when is it "political" to kick a white nationalist out? I thought it was pretty apolitical to hate racists. Also, what makes you think that white people don't get angry over white nationalists? I am white and I hate white nationalists/racists. With a litteral nazi in the white house, its the new push by white supremacists to normalize racism by pretending there's nothing wrong with it or that "its just an opinion". The "politics" argument became blanket statement by them whenever they want to avoid consequences. They are trying to push the narrative that condemning or preventing racism and hatespeech is "being political"(whatever that means in the first place). MAL has fair share of people like that too. You get a thread about how nazis are misrepresented every few months in CD. Its literally only few months since this thread happened. Its not surprising that anime and gaming communities are so vulnerable to radicalization considering huge portion of anime viewers use anime as escapism from their real lives and view it as an "exclusive" hobby that makes them special. And social outcasts are easiest to radicalize by latching onto their insecurities and convincing the some boogeyman is at fault for all their misfit troubles. Which is why nazi-leaning youtube personalities are such a dangerous phenomenon because it makes it easy for them to reach such people. I hate people like you so much. So stuck up your ass in some "crusade" against a boogeyman as if it's corrupting the medium when the medium has no corruption in it at all. The gaming medium and its respective community is arguably the most liberal medium in existence. Video games do not have established sexist labels for works like "chick flick" or "women's fiction". Video game communities like the FGC, who value skill and the ability to play more than anything else, remain some of the most ethnically diverse communities out there. In fact, they have ascended progressivism, by being completely blind to the idea of race and ethnicity.  No other medium allows for easy self-insertion as video games do. I can be a female. I can be a black man. I can even be transgender if the game allows it. Because our actions on the controller reflect the actions our game character commits, we are able to easily self-insert into a character without any barriers holding us back. I can't do that watching a movie or reading a book because those mediums treat us as an outside entity. Should I also talk about the time when gamers passionately united against Nintendo for weakening Samus as a character by turning her into a submissive mimsy? Or how games like Haunting Ground and Silent Hill 3 speak wonders against the idea of sexual objectification by making you feel and play like a sexual object. While Hollywood is still trying to set itself as a diverse industry by including token black characters or token powerful female figures that don't really mean much, gaming has already gone past that. Fuck, in fact, gaming is going so far, it's working on robots right now with works like Overwatch and Nier: Automata. |
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PeenusWeenusCaim said: I agree, and, ironically, if we look at who is on which side, Hollywood takes an extreme left-wing approach, while gamers are more central or slightly right wing. Just food for thought.While Hollywood is still trying to set itself as a diverse industry by including token black characters or token powerful female figures that don't really mean much, gaming has already gone past that. |
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