Order-Sol said: wtf are you saying ? People dreams are always achievable. The only time it's not is when it's something egregious or ridiculous. If someone who did achieve their goals still killed themselves it's because they had other mental conditions like clinical depression. I wasn't talking about if someone achieved their goals and killed themselves but yeah for that part. I meant if their dream involved wanting to achieve something by a specific deadline because it would be last of some specific event for example, or wanting something with another person who died before they could do anything whether it is someone close or just wanting to meet someone. Then there is things that are possible but feel virtually impossible like personal relations with specific people whether romantic or platonic if they get rejected or left by them or wind up with someone else while they in theory can happen it isn't all that predictable on what is possible. But if the goal is more general then yes anything can be possible, at least hypothetically, whether someone has enough in them left to try continuously after it doesn't seem to be going the way they want while is possible feels more and more distant a possibility is another story. -YUMMY- said: I´ll make your words my own and... even holding on can feel unbearable at times, as the pressure of unmet expectations or perceived failures weighs heavily. For many, the search for meaning becomes a continuous state of distress or discomfort struggle. It’s a battle between hope and hopelessness, where the gamble of choosing life over death seems like an ongoing risk without guarantees. The challenge, then, is not just finding new meaning, but cultivating the resilience to endure the uncertainty, knowing that even the smallest glimmer of hope can be enough to keep someone going. In the end, the search for meaning may not be about grand achievements, but about finding value in the smallest of moments, and trusting that tomorrow maybe be better than today. Yes, that too. It's difficult to explain all the reasons at once. Though hope can feel like false hope or even delusion sometimes. |
| @traed Okay read carefully. People who are rational don't off themselves due to not having a girlfriend and certainly don't because they have no friends. Grown adults are not crying over their crush getting married or having boyfriend. If he is he hasn't mature mentally or he don't know how to interact socially. You can always make friends regardless of your age, you can always get a girlfriend no matter the age. only thing in life that has a time limit is biological children. Even if you had those things and you don't anymore, people don't off themselves because they lose those things. I know male suicide rates are high due to "loneliness" those men often have no ambitions and other underlines problems in life. |
| @Order-Sol It's difficult to speak in vague scenarios since there is so many so I will just stick to what you focused on. There is different ways people view these things some are fairly shallow or non attached where everyone is replaceable or forgettable which in that case you'd may be right because that is easier to adapt but for holding more meaning to relations with some close others (whatever the type) on an individual level it's a different story because no one is seen as truly replaceable, im not counting infatuation though since that is shallow based. At most a similarly strong bond may form with someone else but the stronger the more difficult and less likely it is to occur though, it depends on the individual. So gaps in desire and fulfillment form over time from that and other causes. I just don't think it's very possible to be both fully non attached and capable of actually loving anyone beyond love of a stranger and that just seems painfully lonely to me, maybe not for everyone but to me some other people it is. A person can have a romantic relationship and lots of friends and family and feel alone OR be alone and not feel lonely but these are generally different types of people with totally different outlooks and neither is really better than the other although the later would feel better they wouldnt necessarily have a better quality of life but depends. Though yes, often a lot of other things could be not going well for someone so it accumulates but I wouldn't say it is down to something vaguely defined like maturity if there isn't much else going on it just is how they place value. If something like maturity has to do with anything why is peak suicide so late in life and no dip in the middle? This is just US since i couldnt find global chart that recorded past the 20s age group. This cant be easily explained be explained by something like chronic illness alone or lack of ambition. It is lack of fulfillment involved which is from ambitions not reached whether it is something career wise or relationship wise or whatever, it is wherever someone places value which can be anything for them. It also can be about how society sees them, what society values but maybe they dont and just feel out of place and unwanted. There is a lot of reasons people can have. |
traedSep 15, 7:05 PM
| @traed Let's go from bottom to top. What was the medical history of these men from physical and mental? What was the individual life like their experiences? Was the final days of the individual life? Plenty contributes to the issue. Age haves nothing to do with maturity. Secondly. I am fully aware someone can feel lonely even with people around I often feel lonely being around people. When a person alone and doesn't feel lonely that person usually is confident with decent social skills who likes who they are. ( not saying it's the opposite for people with people in their lives ). Other contributing factors as I already said. I'm not saying people are replaceable. I am telling you grieving over someone your entire life is very unhealthy. If man wife's he felt it was love if his life he think he can't love again I encourage to meet new people. If the man overcame her death and happy single thats fine too. No one who is comfortable with their life committee suicide period. It's always factors of things that contribute to it. Loneliness never the only reason people off themselves. Especially since women are lonelier at older ages than me. |
Order-SolSep 15, 8:58 PM
| @Order-Sol Yeah a lot of factors so it is difficult to interpret. Yeah I don't think age has to do with maturity either, just usually what people think of as mature is something that would go up over time for many, though some people it can go the other way. Even IQ, without me getting into the issues with that kind of measure, that doesnt always go up then be stable, it goes down over time for some too. Also by some definitions of maturity many people reach it pretty young others may never. I never really liked the concept of maturity since it never is clear what someone means from all the conflicting ideas of what is maturity. I was thinking more long term alone but not lonely rather than short when I was saying it isn't necessarily better. While I don't inherently think that is bad, in some cases it is them missing out something they could possibly enjoy. I was leaning more toward something like schizoid personality disorder with an addition of misanthropy. That is what I was having in mind more for comparison. And not that I am saying someone who is okay alone long periods is inherently like that. I wasn't really saying you said that people are replaceable, just it feels like that is a conclusion that could be made by someone like me from what was previously said. The concept of healthy or unhealthy seem vague to me. What is considered healthy or unhealthy changes with context and time. I'd agree it certainly would be more difficult for someone to grieve endlessly versus if they have other ways of handling things. Actually feeling different about something or someone lost or never gained is a thing in it's own. I'd say more but I'd be concerned if I say something that would unintentionally have a negative effect on some people. Well yeah of course someone that is comfortable with their life wouldn't likely kill themselves unless under some special circumstances. |
| Why it's seen as a bad thing depends on what problem one is attempting to solve with it; rarely is do people commit suicide these days for a higher purpose that necessitates their death, so I assume you mean committing suicide because one feel anguished enough to want to throw the towel in. You give the impression that you don't want an empathetic response, yet an objection you raise is reactionary towards empathy, "if someone dies just find a replacement". This is just stupid - it is obvious that people are not all the same and there's many metrics by which you could decide that one person's life is more valuable than another. You are the one "saying bullshit". That being the case, I doubt what I'm about to say will be all that meaningful to you if you are the one who's in a position that they are contemplating such a terrible act, but on the off-chance, and for the sake of offering another perspective, here it is: You have no reason to assume that suicide will end any torment you experience. I do not mean this in terms of some supposed after-life, but to invite you to actually think about consciousness as a phenomenon in of itself: we cannot explain it materially, we have no way of interfacing with it directly, as soon as we try to account for it in science our theories lose meaning, and we have significant data on near-death experiences (including cases where people were pronounced temporarily clinically dead) that suggest you will have an out-of-body experience when you die. Even if you believe such things to be illusions, that doesn't lessen their impact on your cognition and life (or death). When you actually look into it, we collectively have a lot more signs pointing towards consciousness persisting after biological death than not. Whether that means reincarnation, heaven/hell, whatever, is not the point - the point is that you are throwing away the opportunities to better yourself and your reality on odds which suggest that what you want to influence (your status as conscious) will not actually change. True to form, @wizdom224 's seemingly simple reply rings true: The answer is simple: Because living is good and dying is bad. A dying society is not a prosperous one. So if you wish for a prosperous society, then you must do your part to ensure the population is not on the decline and that includes your own responsibility not to do such a thing to yourself. Truth is that which is common to all reality, it can be found everywhere in everything and therefore can be affirmed from all positions; 2+2=4. Living poorly may not be preferable to dying well, but dying poorly is certainly not preferable to living poorly. "i'm sure all of us feel like killing ourselves." I'm fascinated by hollowed-out "semi-ironic" sentiments like this because I think they are telling of a larger issue with the particular flavour of mechanistic materialism we are forced to breathe. It feels like everyone is a half-initiated Buddhist where they understand one side of the concept of samsara (all I am and see is flux, non-eternal, arbitrary) but never penetrate to the root of the matter (that being the case, what is objective at all?). They acknowledge the superfluidity of common experience as our Godless civilisation serves that conclusion indirectly to them on a platter (assuming they have a modicum of health left in their cognition), but do not see a problem with it until it stops benefitting them (or, more charitably, until they look closer). |
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| When I go to a 7-Eleven to get a Slurpee, a suicide is the best! |
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| If you want my reason, I think it's because suicide is pretty intoxicating, just hearing someone's suicidal thoughts is enough to make you extremely down and depressed, and everyone pretty much has to deal with their bullshit, so it adds up quite a ton to someone's mental health. It can become a chain reaction whenever you see someone die willingly and then another comes, it becomes somewhat of a bad trend where people are joining up to kill themselves just because others did it first. It's an effective solution, but it creates a bad example for others who may be seeking help but are too scared or timid to ask. Not everyone is the same, even if you have similar circumstances or contexts. Others might be able to get help, even if you are unable to get one. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I don't think you know how much work goes into developing a friendship or a relationship, because if you did then you would know it isn't that easy. |
| "When clouds appear, wise men put on their cloaks; When great leaves fall, the winter is at hand; When the sun sets, who doth not look for night? Untimely storms make men expect a dearth." William Shakespeare |
| Well it's bad in the sense of, it's an irreversible choice, where it's not at all obvious that it is the right choice, and the only people who would attempt weighing on that decision for themselves are not the type of people whose judgements would be very reliable. |
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